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News: NEC Restoration Show 22nd-24th March 2024
http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5015.msg36852#msg36852
 
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Author Topic: Beta Spider 2000 engine rebuild/refurb  (Read 42040 times)
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peteracs
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Peter Stokes


« Reply #280 on: September 17, 2023, 02:01:49 PM »

Hi Graham

First comment from Eric

“The swarf will go into the water jacket for the most part BUT tank tape over every hole in the block before you start you want zero swarf in the engine.”

So if he is correct any dropping downwards ends up in coolant area not oil. You need to obviously flush out as best. You have taken care to stop top exiting swarf so I would be confident you should be ok and as Nigel says the oil filter and mesh should take care of any going that way. As to dropping the sump, it can be done using axle stands you just need to loosen the belt end engine mount and raise the engine away from the subframe. Not trivial, but I did it on the Spider and removed the oil pump whilst at it.

All the best

Peter
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Graham Stewart


« Reply #281 on: September 17, 2023, 02:09:33 PM »

I've just run my M10 x 1.25 tap down the offending thread and the first section, as would be expected, went fine. As soon as I encountered the second insert I felt immediate and stiff resistance. I tried a couple of turns but quickly realised it was a no-go. The tap came out OK, but on closer inspection one of the cutting threads has a small section missing. Those inserts are tough stuff - they've destroyed two drill bits and have now effectively destroyed a tap.

So I don't think that having less engaged threads than standard will be an issue, as the threads that are engaged are way stronger than the cast iron of the block. And as the head bolts are 12.9 high tensile I don't think it will be a problem.

The only problem I have is making sure the head bolt doesn't bottom out into the second (lower) insert. I don't want to cut off too much, and further reduce the number of threads engaged and I don't want to leave too much on and have the bolt contact the lower insert. Measure 9 or 10 times, cut once, I think...
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Graham Stewart


« Reply #282 on: September 17, 2023, 02:21:21 PM »

Hi Peter,

That's something of a relief. I've been scrupulously careful to ensure that the block deck is covered up at all times, so I'm confident that no swarf has entered the oilways. I assume that the swarf/tangs, being steel/iron and heavy will find their way to the lowest part of the coolant galleries and sit there until the block is flushed out (if that ever happens). I really don't have the facilities to remove the sump so will have to trust to the design of the oil circulation system to keep any nasties away from where they shouldn't be. The motor will be getting fresh coolant (and fresh oil and filter once the initial start up is achieved), so that's as much as I can reasonably do I think.

I wonder what other surprises the car has in store for me? It's fighting me every inch of the way so far...

Graham
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Graham Stewart


« Reply #283 on: September 19, 2023, 09:34:50 PM »

A further setback has occurred, in that my buddy in the same village has suffered a fall while working and has had to go to A&E to (as he puts it) 'get some staples in my head'. Apparently he's confined to home for the next few days. So the assistance I need to remove the bonnet and fit the cylinder head will need to be provided by my long-suffering wife when she arrives at the end of September. Most inconsiderate of Andy...  Grin

I'll pop round tomorrow and make sure he has sufficient supplies of the essentials (beer, wine and food)...
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Graham Stewart


« Reply #284 on: October 02, 2023, 06:25:31 PM »

Progress on the Beta up till now has been completely lacking, as Andy has been hors de combat since his fall, but today Jackie arrived at Beziers airport. Within a few hours of her arrival we'd removed the bonnet, transported it to a safe place and (glory be) fitted the head and inlet manifold to the block! We even managed to wangle the exhaust manifold onto the head studs (with the gasket in place) and secure the manifold to the head with a couple of nuts, ready for later full tightening.

I was tempted to call that a day and leave the main event (tightening down the head bolts) to another time. But as that would only be postponing the day of reckoning I decided on the Macbeth approach - 'if it were done, then t'were well it were done quickly'...

So out with the torque wrench and find GC's instructions for torquing the head down. The first pass at 20 lbs/ft was uneventful - even the suspect No. 4 bolt felt the same as all the others. Next was 40 lbs/ft and trepidation definitely creeping in, but No. 4 bolt passed without incident. Then for the big one - 60 lbs/ft... I have to confess I was absolutely bricking it on pretty much all of the bolts (especially No. 4), but they all torqued up fine and nobody died. So while it was belated, it was definitely a moment of success. Here's the head, suitably clamped in place:



* DSCF3882.JPG (615.88 KB, 1077x1389 - viewed 127 times.)
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
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2017 KTM Duke 690R
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« Reply #285 on: October 02, 2023, 07:08:17 PM »

Great news - a brave man leaving an inlet tract unstuffed ready for all sorts of loose stuff to drop in! Must remember that bit of advice for when I start my rebuild....
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Graham Stewart


« Reply #286 on: October 02, 2023, 08:19:36 PM »

Great news - a brave man leaving an inlet tract unstuffed ready for all sorts of loose stuff to drop in! Must remember that bit of advice for when I start my rebuild....

Good point, but it will be quickly covered with a carb tomorrow. I will plug it with something in the mean time though...
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« Reply #287 on: October 02, 2023, 08:33:43 PM »

One day I'll show you a carburettor nut I dropped down an inlet tract and didn't notice.....
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Graham Stewart


« Reply #288 on: October 02, 2023, 09:26:51 PM »

One day I'll show you a carburettor nut I dropped down an inlet tract and didn't notice.....

I can't imagine it would be a pretty sight...  Shocked
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« Reply #289 on: October 02, 2023, 09:28:21 PM »

I don’t have a Guy Croft book but I was under the impression that late head bolts (ribe head) are torqued 15 ft/lb, 30 ft/lb and then 90 degrees + 90 degrees.

Did GC do them differently? Or is there another way to use late bolts?
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Graham Stewart


« Reply #290 on: October 02, 2023, 09:44:31 PM »

I don’t have a Guy Croft book but I was under the impression that late head bolts (ribe head) are torqued 15 ft/lb, 30 ft/lb and then 90 degrees + 90 degrees.

Did GC do them differently? Or is there another way to use late bolts?

GC used to issue little bulletins, one of which was about head gaskets and tightening thereof. This is the relevant bit about torque values:

Tighten to the following regime cold:
20lbf ft + 40 lbf ft - loosen bolts 1/8 turn max - tighten to 40 lbf ft - tighten to 60 lbf ft. Final pull-down each bolt in turn with long T-bar by hand 1/16- 1/8th turn to equalise preload.


I must confess that after tightening the bolts down to 60 lb/ft and expecting to strip a thread at every turn I couldn't find the will to do the final 'equalise preload' bit.

If anyone wants I'll post up the whole document.
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« Reply #291 on: October 02, 2023, 09:57:38 PM »

Excellent news Graham. Chuffed for you. Jackie to the rescue!

I guess now it's all just fitting everything else and getting it running.

Looking forward to hearing the end result.

Cheers,
Nigel
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« Reply #292 on: October 02, 2023, 10:25:17 PM »

I can't imagine it would be a pretty sight...  Shocked

Hope you don’t get nightmares….


* BECE101D-E2AB-468A-91D0-296F3CCC99B8.jpeg (570.44 KB, 1280x960 - viewed 97 times.)
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Graham Stewart


« Reply #293 on: October 03, 2023, 09:53:20 AM »

Excellent news Graham. Chuffed for you. Jackie to the rescue!

I guess now it's all just fitting everything else and getting it running.

Looking forward to hearing the end result.

Cheers,
Nigel

Yes, time to figure out the correct sequence of tasks - I think getting the valve timing correct and cambelt fitted is the first task. In response to Guy's photo, the inlet manifold is now completely plugged...

We're now in our last week before heading back, so multiple jobs will be competing for time - it's always like this...

Will post up at least one progress report before we go back.

Graham
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Peter Stokes


« Reply #294 on: October 03, 2023, 09:51:07 PM »

I am keeping my fingers crossed you get it fired up before leaving! You deserve that milestone.

Peter
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« Reply #295 on: October 04, 2023, 12:34:39 PM »

Well done Graham!
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Graham Stewart


« Reply #296 on: October 05, 2023, 06:01:14 PM »

Thanks for the good wishes, much appreciated. So far the cam belt is on and the engine turns over freely, and earlier on today I re-fitted the exhaust manifold with its fancy new copper gasket on the flange/joint at the back of the engine. It really is an absolute swine to get to, as I can only raise the front of the car just high enough for me to get under it on a car creeper. There are 10 x M6 bolts & nuts that need to be fastened up and there is hardly room to swing a 1/4" ratchet with 10mm socket on.  What's doubly galling is that I splashed out on a QuickJack a couple of months ago, but haven't had time to assemble it. The extra working clearance would have made the job much easier, but hey ho.

At least most of the rest of the jobs can be done leaning over into the engine bay.
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« Reply #297 on: October 05, 2023, 06:54:13 PM »

Graham,
I do hope you'll get it running, even without the cooling system, before you
have to depart.
That would be a huge leaving present!

Nigel
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1984 2.0 Carb HPE [ex Aus] Grigio Finanza.
2007 Mazda 6 2.3 [current daily, highly recommended]
The past:
1980 2.0 HPE White in South Africa [hope it survives!]
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oh,and an Uno Turbo 1997 also in SA [stolen,never recovered]
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Graham Stewart


« Reply #298 on: October 05, 2023, 07:07:56 PM »

Hi Nigel,

Yes it would be a landmark. Unfortunately it's about this time in the holiday when time compresses and all the jobs that need to be done extend...

But at least the hot water cylinder sensor registered 56 deg C today, heated entirely by the sun...  Grin

Graham
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« Reply #299 on: October 06, 2023, 05:38:18 PM »

The one time that I replaced a Beta head I fitted the exhaust manifold first. Isn’t that the easy way?
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