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Author Topic: 1300 Coupes  (Read 76987 times)
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Neil-yaj396
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1979 1300 Coupe


« on: October 06, 2013, 03:19:59 PM »

I am now the owner of around 30% of the UK’s road worthy 1300 Beta Coupes (and 100% of the Lancia Blue ones???).

I bought the post facelift Coupe from a Lancia enthusiast in Sheffield this week (he has a nice blue Series III Appia saloon).

Unfortunately, after a faultless thirty mile cruise up the motorway, the car developed the dreaded Beta hesitancy under load syndrome, to the point where I had to stop on the outskirts of Bradford.  A’ switch off and switch on again’ restored a semblance of drivability and got me home (and avoided the dreaded “Can’t find anything wrong with this mate!” from the AA man!), but that annoying ‘fluffyness’ remained and is even worse today.

I changed a rather ratty rotor arm and cleaned up as many connections as I could find this morning. This has improved the idle, but things are pretty poor once you set off and put the engine under load.

The car came with quite a lot of history, including notes from it’s original owner (Bernard Power 1979 – 2008). Turns out various mechanics have been mucking about with the carburettor and ignition for the last twenty years, with at best, it appears, only temporary success.

My money is on the vacuum advance and/or the ignition unit itself, as the ‘off and on’ business seems to eliminate the carb to me? Though the last mechanics bill is for freeing up the secondary choke flap.

The ignition unit is the Marelli type that sits under the coil, which I haven’t seen before. Any other suggestions are welcome of course.

Unfortunately this has all taken a bit of the shine off my latest acquisition!


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« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 03:22:04 PM by Neil-yaj396 » Logged
peteracs
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« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2013, 05:21:11 PM »

Hi Neil

Here is hoping you did not pay too much for it, in which case, can I suggest you look on it as one of those things with an old car?

If this is the only fault, then sounds like a good result, again so long as you did not pay top dollar.

Anyway, on with my two penny worth.

If this has been stood for a while maybe the fuel is stale, could be fuel pump or float level. I think I would overhaul carb and replace fuel filter for starters and if you can find a cheap ignition unit and coil, then try that if the carb/filter does not improve things.

Pete
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Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Saab 9-3 1.9Tid Cabrio
Neil-yaj396
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1979 1300 Coupe


« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2013, 08:46:40 PM »

There is a receipt for the carb being rebuilt a couple of years ago and it was filled with fresh fuel, but it's only done 400 miles in the last four years so I will check the filter etc.

Ignition unit still the prime suspect though. I paid £2400, way less than my budget to restore YAJ, so still ahead of the game I think.
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rossocorsa
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« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2013, 09:51:50 PM »

Neil

I would suspect dirt in the carb, some years ago I had a 1600 Berlina that had only done 18k but had stood for a long time, it would run fine but then stutter and pop and fart for no apparent reason fiddled about with it without success until I actually removed the carb removed various jets and blew through the jets and many of the channels in the carb body with an airline. Despite no obvious crud in the carb the car ran perfectly from then on.
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Neil-yaj396
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« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2013, 03:41:45 PM »

Thanks Rosso, I'll do that. There's a bill from the summer that includes 'carb jets cleaned' but as you say, they won't have actually taken it off and blown through all the bypass channels etc.
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Per
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« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2013, 07:20:02 AM »

I would disconnect the filter, blow back through any lines and fit the best filter you can lay your hands on. When sitting around old fuel can silt up passageways and lines and every so often some of it will go to the carb. I'd drain the tank too at first opprtunity.
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Neil-yaj396
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1979 1300 Coupe


« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2013, 10:04:39 PM »

Well, I drained off 22 litres of very straw coloured petrol and put 25 litres of fresh fuel in. The car ran like a dream for 20 miles then suddenly reverted to it's rough running, only operating pretty much on idle or full throttle, meaning a kind of Formula 1 car drive home, hanging back from the car in front then nailing it to progress!

Chris Bastow (ex Betacar) had agreed to change the cambelt for me so enjoyed a similar drive to his workshop. He basically found a bit of everything wrong:

Blocked carb jets
A split diaphragm in the carb (can't remember which, but not the accelerator pump)
Super lean mixture at idle (1% CO)
Split vacuum advance diaphragm (to point where bits of it were being sucked into the manifold!)
Split engine breather pipe
Timing out by 4 degrees

Just not sure how it ever ran at all. I think that because of my sudden use after an effective six year lay up loads of rubber bits suddenly started to fail in turn, exacerbated by the stale fuel. Anyway, it seems a nice drive now, excepting the odd hiccough caused by the disconnected vacuum advance. Don't suppose anyone has one (Marelli)??
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cheeky monkey
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« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2013, 09:52:50 AM »

Hi Neil,

havnt got a spare. When i had the distributor overhauled by H&H ignition solutions they fitted a new one.

regards
Graham
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Graham

1979 beta coupe 1300
smithymc
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« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2013, 02:39:02 PM »

Can endorse the work of H & H - they did the sticky dizzy on the Lime after 28years of non -use.

Good luck- sounds like you are so close to having a nice runner.

Mark
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Neil-yaj396
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1979 1300 Coupe


« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2013, 07:28:11 AM »

The saga continues! Off to pick up my daughter last night after 50 trouble free miles. Running rough from the off then onto just 3 cylinders for about a mile then a total stall. Would restart on 1 or 2 cylinders only. Called AA who were there in 25 minutes. The car started on 3 cylinders so they followed me home running very rough, but improving until pretty much fine by the end of my road!

Changing plugs and fuel filters next (inc tiny one in carb) as I'm sure it's still crap finding it's way through to the carb jets, though the drained fuel contained no visible debris.
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peteracs
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« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2013, 09:03:31 AM »

Hi Neil

Does sound like fuel, as would have expected electrical to get worse as it heats up, unless it is a bad connection somewhere

Peter
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Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Saab 9-3 1.9Tid Cabrio
lbcoupe76
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« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2013, 10:06:31 AM »

Have you changed you fuel filter?, a 50 mile journey fuss free then sudden hiccups sounds like you may have dislodged some crud from the old fuel in the tank and blocked your fuel filter.
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1976 Beta coupe 1800 "Kermette"
1975 Beta coupe 1800 x 2
1974 Beta Berlina 1800
1989 Thema i.e turbo
1988 Thema i.e turbo
Fiat 1500



Smoke me a Kipper i'll be back for breakfast
Neil-yaj396
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1979 1300 Coupe


« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2013, 01:02:44 PM »

Yesterday I removed and replaced the offending (or even offensive!) articles below. It's clear that previous owners have been chasing running issues for ages, yet these simple items have not been checked. Look at the clip on that filter, it can't have been changed for years. Just back from my test drive; still a bit lumpy through the warm up but fine once operating temperature is attained. I did a few sub 20 mph pull aways in 3rd with no hiccups.

The vacuum advance unit gave absolutely no resistance when some suction was applied.



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Neil-yaj396
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1979 1300 Coupe


« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2013, 01:03:43 PM »

The advance unit, grotty outside and in.


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« Last Edit: October 27, 2013, 03:45:18 PM by Neil-yaj396 » Logged
rossocorsa
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« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2013, 09:30:35 PM »

I've not tried one on a beta but in your situation I would be tempted to fit a filter king as the pressure regulation really sweetens the running.
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Neil-yaj396
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1979 1300 Coupe


« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2013, 12:23:41 AM »

I've not tried one on a beta but in your situation I would be tempted to fit a filter king as the pressure regulation really sweetens the running.

Yes, Fulvia owners seem to swear by them, though as you say, I've not seen one on a Beta. I take it that they sit between the manual pump and the carb? Or do they only work with an electronic pump fitted?

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smithymc
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« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2014, 10:32:12 AM »

Hi Neil

Glad to hear that things are better- its so often the basics. I had paid to have my carb overhauled, so everyone ignored it when addressing the MOT- when it broke down on its maiden run and the guys stripped the carb at the roadside, it became clear that it hadn't been cleaned- yellowy-brown stuff in float chamber.

Been fine ever since- he says grabbing for any nearby timber!

All the best.

Mark
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Neil-yaj396
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1979 1300 Coupe


« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2014, 02:57:09 PM »

My garage was built in 2007 as part of the extension to our house. For the first time since then it is housing a Lancia, rather than a selection of household junk (and to be fair my bikes and snowboards).


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« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 06:18:22 PM by Neil-yaj396 » Logged
Neil-yaj396
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1979 1300 Coupe


« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2014, 01:24:00 PM »

First long trip in the 'new' 1300 completed today. Up to Carlisle and back for the LMC Great Northern Weekend with my daughter. 290 trouble free miles in three days, more than the car has normally completed in a couple of years prior to me buying it. The odometer clicked over 48K just before I got home. Massively re-assuring after the early troubles I had with this car!
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rossocorsa
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« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2014, 05:23:46 PM »

Good to hear that Neil, I am starting to assemble my engine today so maybe 2015 will see mine on the road!
« Last Edit: April 07, 2014, 01:46:37 PM by rossocorsa » Logged
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