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https://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4521.0
 
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Author Topic: Electric fuel pump preferences? 2 ltr carb  (Read 420 times)
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squiglyzigly
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« on: June 24, 2021, 04:41:26 PM »

I think I really should go electric on my Berlina but I dislike the noise of the facet red top on my VX coupe. Itís not a problem on the VX as it has a noisy exhaust etc and drowns out the Ďtick tick tickĒ of the pump.
But my Berlina is nice a quiet and Iíd like to keep it that way.

So Iím looking for suggestions, proís and cons of the various makes of electric fuel pumps out there.
My experience is limited to facet.

Is there a better quieter option?

Thanks chaps
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VX HPE (resto started Sept Ď21)
Beta Saloon 2.0l s2 1979 (completed July 2020)
Beta coupť VX (completed April 2017)
Aprilia RSVR 2002
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Nigel
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« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2021, 06:23:21 PM »

Hi Ian,

I've used a Huco 'pull' pump from Fast Road Cars in the area near the ign coil.

[Beware of cheaper copies, I found out and wasted money!]

It's quiet and doesn't need the fuel return line.

Nigel
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1984 2.0 Carb HPE [ex Aus] Silver..turning to Grey Finanza.
2007 Mazda 6 2.3 [current daily, highly recommended]
The past:
1980 2.0 HPE White in South Africa [hope it survives!]
1976 1.6 Coupe Lancia Blu [PFG 76R] [probably deceased]
oh,and an Uno Turbo 1997 also in SA [stolen,never recovered]
JohnFol
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« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2021, 09:45:23 AM »

Hi Ian, I went for a Huco 133010 and like Nigel installed near ignition coil. They do make versions that are designed to sit near the fuel tank if you prefer..
On start up there is some pulsing (<5 seconds) but as the back pressure builds (as carb float closes valve), the pump shuts off so does not continually run. I then added an in-line 1 way valve on the return line so it looks standard and avoids removing the return pipework

Not sure I can comment how it compares with Facet in terms of noise, but I guess that what Beta Meets are all about!

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mangocrazy
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« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2021, 03:36:08 PM »

I've used a Huco pump for the last ten years or so and once I'd given it a full 12v to work with, it's been faultless. Originally I piggybacked on the OE igntion coil for a 12v feed, but didn't realise the supposed 12v was only about 7v due to a ballast resistor in circuit reducing the voltage. I mounted mine in the front of the engine bay, on the driver's side in close proximity to the coil and the earth 'hedgehog' to make wiring simpler.
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
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Nigel
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« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2021, 05:48:12 PM »

John got the Huco part number correct, I was looking but couldn't find it.

It's best to power it through a relay, and add an inertia switch in as well, just in case.
You don't want fuel everywhere in the event of a collision.

I took relay power from the positive of the alternator, and switch it from the 12v side
of the ballast resistor, as Graham says.

In another thread, Eric recommended wiring the inertia switch on the earth side of the pump,
however, I can't remember the reason for that.
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1984 2.0 Carb HPE [ex Aus] Silver..turning to Grey Finanza.
2007 Mazda 6 2.3 [current daily, highly recommended]
The past:
1980 2.0 HPE White in South Africa [hope it survives!]
1976 1.6 Coupe Lancia Blu [PFG 76R] [probably deceased]
oh,and an Uno Turbo 1997 also in SA [stolen,never recovered]
mangocrazy
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« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2021, 06:54:32 PM »

Just realised that Ian's concern was primarily about pump noise, so I can reassure him that I can't honestly say I've ever heard it in operation over the engine noise (another good reason for engine bay mounting). If you listen closely you can hear the pump priming when the ignition is switched on, but once the engine is running I can't hear it. The pump body is some kind of hard engineering plastic, which is probably better at noise suppression than a metal pump. Especially when that metal bodied pump is clicking away behind you in the boot area.
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
squiglyzigly
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« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2021, 07:55:36 AM »

Thanks chaps, plenty of good info to digest although Iím concerned you maybe sales reps for Huco in your spare time  Cheesy

Iíll be taking your experiences and investing in a genuine Huco pump (the pull type) for an engine bay install as Iím not keen on in-car installation in the boot (in case of smells and simply using space that is better reserved for tools and beer) and under the floor is a pain if you need to action roadside repairs.

Thanks again everyone,
Ian
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VX HPE (resto started Sept Ď21)
Beta Saloon 2.0l s2 1979 (completed July 2020)
Beta coupť VX (completed April 2017)
Aprilia RSVR 2002
Alfa 159 sportwagon jtd eco (slower than a courgette)
WestonE
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« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2021, 07:55:45 AM »

Hi Nigel

Earth side is not essential. The idea is the less connectors on the positive side that could fall off the better. A bit like always tug test your electrical crimp connections. If they come off do it properly. And always support and secure wires so they do not work harden the copper or wear through insulation by flexing and rubbing. So electrical install 101 along with understanding how watts relates to current draw so the right wires, connectors and fuses are used.

Scotch lock hell often sees circuits overloaded for melting wires and blown fuses as an example of folks not understanding each circuit has to carry the load from all consuming items on it.

Eric  
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peteracs
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« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2021, 10:03:20 PM »

Hi Ian

In case you have not seen this thread, suggest you have a read re the relay etc.

https://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4462.0

Peter
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Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Saab 9-3 1.9Tid Cabrio
donaldb7
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« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2021, 01:44:46 PM »

I've used a Huco pump for the last ten years or so and once I'd given it a full 12v to work with, it's been faultless. Originally I piggybacked on the OE igntion coil for a 12v feed, but didn't realise the supposed 12v was only about 7v due to a ballast resistor in circuit reducing the voltage. I mounted mine in the front of the engine bay, on the driver's side in close proximity to the coil and the earth 'hedgehog' to make wiring simpler.

I think I'm having an issue with this too, not having enough power from the ignition coil to actually make the relay open. Where did you get your 12v from, if not the ignition coil?
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peteracs
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« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2021, 02:54:57 PM »

Hi

Assuming the ballast resistor is nearby, can you take it from the +12V side of it?

Peter
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Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Saab 9-3 1.9Tid Cabrio
donaldb7
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« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2021, 05:12:54 PM »

This is probably a stupid question... but do all of the betas have a ballast resistor? Iíve got a Ď78 coupe and canít seem to find the ballast resistor anywhere??? The ignition coil that came on the car had a resistance of 3ohms but Iíve also got a 1.5ohm coil that I can use. I tried using the + side of the ignition coil on the relay but I could only get about 10V which I believe isnít enough
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Nigel
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« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2021, 05:50:52 PM »

Hi Donald,

That 10v you're getting does seem low, but it would be sufficient to switch
a relay.
The low voltage could be caused by a failing ignition switch.
I would fit a relay powered by 12v from the main alternator cable.

Nigel
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1984 2.0 Carb HPE [ex Aus] Silver..turning to Grey Finanza.
2007 Mazda 6 2.3 [current daily, highly recommended]
The past:
1980 2.0 HPE White in South Africa [hope it survives!]
1976 1.6 Coupe Lancia Blu [PFG 76R] [probably deceased]
oh,and an Uno Turbo 1997 also in SA [stolen,never recovered]
donaldb7
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« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2021, 05:57:51 PM »

Thanks Nigel!

Do you mean 12V from the alternator cable instead of directly from the battery?

Cheers
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Nigel
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« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2021, 07:36:06 PM »

Donald, It's the same thing really.
There's a direct connection between the alt and battery, the alt is easier
as it's closer to where you need it. The batt positive terminal is usually quite crowded anyway.

You'll just have to get the correct terminal to fit. On mine the cable from the
battery is secured to the alt with an 8mm nut, yours may be different.
Some are blade connections, in which case going to the battery may be a better option.

Cheers, Nigel
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1984 2.0 Carb HPE [ex Aus] Silver..turning to Grey Finanza.
2007 Mazda 6 2.3 [current daily, highly recommended]
The past:
1980 2.0 HPE White in South Africa [hope it survives!]
1976 1.6 Coupe Lancia Blu [PFG 76R] [probably deceased]
oh,and an Uno Turbo 1997 also in SA [stolen,never recovered]
donaldb7
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« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2021, 11:04:55 PM »

Hey Nigel,

I've actually already got it wired up to the battery already with a 7.5amp fuse. For some reason, I still can't seem to get the relay to switch, even with 10V from the ignition coil. Think I'll go visit the garage tomorrow and ask their advice as this has me stumped!
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peteracs
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« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2021, 12:43:38 PM »

Hi Donald

Early Betas did not have the ballast, I think they came in with the electronic ignition. From previous threads I think the non ballast coils will be approx 3 ohms the ballast ones will be around 1.5 ohms, with a similar amount for the ballast.

Your 10V would imply that you have no ballast resistor and that you have some sort of issue in the supply to the coil, as mentioned it should be around 12V with the engine off and the battery reading 12V.

As to the relay check it works using a meter, I would check your earth connection on the relay coil as 10V would normally be sufficient to turn it on. Obviously also check your wiring connections to the relay as well.

Peter
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Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Saab 9-3 1.9Tid Cabrio
donaldb7
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« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2021, 08:46:12 PM »

Hi Donald

Early Betas did not have the ballast, I think they came in with the electronic ignition. From previous threads I think the non ballast coils will be approx 3 ohms the ballast ones will be around 1.5 ohms, with a similar amount for the ballast.

Your 10V would imply that you have no ballast resistor and that you have some sort of issue in the supply to the coil, as mentioned it should be around 12V with the engine off and the battery reading 12V.

As to the relay check it works using a meter, I would check your earth connection on the relay coil as 10V would normally be sufficient to turn it on. Obviously also check your wiring connections to the relay as well.

Peter

Thanks Peter!

Iíll check those connections and try figure this one out! Thanks for the advice!
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JohnFol
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« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2021, 11:32:02 AM »

FYI there is some more info on Ballast resistors here: http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4474.0
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