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Author Topic: Volumex cloth reproduction  (Read 3677 times)
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chrisc
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« Reply #60 on: May 24, 2021, 11:52:52 AM »

I suspect if Gerard (no disrespect) weren't from his background we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I have some recent practical experience of this in another area. I wanted to reproduce something no longer available in a quantity only suitable for personal use, and asked the copyright owner if they were happy with that as they no longer produced it, or if they weren't happy for me to reproduce it for them to do another production run for my requirement. They said no to both, with no reason given. I went ahead and did it anyway. Breaching copyright law? definitely, but think about the chain of events required for it to become an issue -

  • Someone from the company would have to be at the location where the reproduced item is
  • They would have to recognise a 40 year old design that they no longer produced
  • They would have to recognise that the item itself was not original
  • They would have to decide that it was worth pursuing

If someone feels like reaching out to Zegna to try and put an obstacle in the way of cloth being available for our cars, I'd wonder what they were even doing browsing an enthusiasts forum!

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mangocrazy
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« Reply #61 on: May 24, 2021, 01:05:36 PM »

Spot on, Chris. There are always people who want to stop other people from doing stuff, for reasons (if you can call them that) which are beyond comprehension. I just ignore them. As you say, a long chain of events would need to unfold before it ever became an issue. What you are proposing (and we are backing you to the hilt) is a million miles away from a Chinese knock-off operation blatantly infringing IP and churning out millions of substandard copies of a popular product.

I may be in a similar situation if the planets align; I was interested in acquiring a 'long' fifth gear set as sold by the Monte Hospital until I read Eric's warning about the poor quality of the parts. The gears had been manufactured by a company in Italy, acting on the instructions of a French chap (he owns the IP rights) who used to live in California but has now allegedly relocated to Ottawa. I tried to track him down, but none of my enquiries were ever returned. The Italian company have ceased trading and will only talk to the IP rights holder.

Looking further into it, and after having had a discussion with an engineering company in Sheffield, I decided that if I was to attempt any re-manufacture that the ratios would be different to those sold by MH. This was partly to side-step any IP issues, but also because the MH set required the use of allen head bolts rather than hex head bolts and the 'easing' of another part of the transmission in the gear housing, all to provide clearance for the larger gear. This all spelled 'bodge' in capital neon letters to me, so my plan was to lose a little in terms of ratio, but allow ample clearance for the gears without any modifications being needed.

Anyway, that's a digression. I'm fully in agreement with your intentions and don't believe for a minute that any IP rights issues will surface. You're more likely to see Lord Lucan riding Shergar past your house. (Showing my age here...)
« Last Edit: May 24, 2021, 01:13:08 PM by mangocrazy » Logged

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« Reply #62 on: May 24, 2021, 04:31:40 PM »

The comments in the previous two posts are surprising, especially given the usually pleasant tone of this forum.   Earlier in this thread, frankxhv773t asked a question about copyright.   I provided an answer to the question.  That is all.  Nobody is attempting to stop anybody doing anything.    
« Last Edit: May 24, 2021, 04:38:43 PM by GerardJPC » Logged

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« Reply #63 on: May 24, 2021, 05:15:55 PM »

Hi All

I suggest the issues of Copyright have now been well aired and would like to get this thread back to the actual material availability if that is ok with everyone?

Gerard, I do not think anyone was criticising your comments given the question was indeed raised.

Peter
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« Reply #64 on: May 24, 2021, 07:57:10 PM »

I realise that my comments about 'people who want to stop other people doing stuff' could have been misconstrued as a pop at Gerard. This was absolutely not my intention. It was a reference to Chris's recent experience, nothing more. My ire was directed at rights holders who don't want to do anything with their IP, but don't want anyone else to use it, even under licence.  I apologise if anyone was offended or upset by this, and agree with Peter that we should return this thread to its original purpose.
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« Reply #65 on: May 24, 2021, 08:21:01 PM »

The question has been considered so I'm more than happy to get back to the cloth.
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« Reply #66 on: July 01, 2021, 09:00:42 PM »

Is there any further updates on the progress with the fabric.
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chrisc
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« Reply #67 on: July 02, 2021, 08:41:49 AM »

Should be delivered to me any day now.

Newborn here is keeping me distracted at the moment from my beta, but still ticking over
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« Reply #68 on: July 03, 2021, 11:04:02 AM »

Can I join the list or is it too late?

Thanks
Ian
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« Reply #69 on: July 03, 2021, 11:05:07 AM »

Should be delivered to me any day now.

Newborn here is keeping me distracted at the moment from my beta, but still ticking over

That's great news as said before I know I was late but if possible definitely will take a whole set for the car.

Congrats on the baby. If it's your first it gets easier with time. If it's not then your already know that 🙂👍
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« Reply #70 on: July 03, 2021, 12:28:59 PM »

Can I join the list or is it too late?

Thanks
Ian



Don't want to pre-empt Chris, but I'd have thought 'the more the merrier'; the more cloth we order as a group the more likely the overall cost will decrease (on a per unit basis).
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
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chrisc
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« Reply #71 on: July 07, 2021, 06:49:06 PM »

Hi all,
  baby is our first, very much hoping it gets easier with time, whilst also wanting to not miss out of this very cute stage!

On beta business, the order I put in was for all the people who've expressed interest, plus a bit more for future demands so shouldn't be a problem for late arrivals.

The manufacturer got in touch with me today, confirming it's all woven and ready for dispatch, just shy of 84m total.

As ever, my mantra is not long now
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« Reply #72 on: July 07, 2021, 10:12:23 PM »

Hi Chris,

Thanks so much for seeoing this through to completion, especially with the (very welcome!) distraction of your first baby. Is the Grand Reveal still on target for the BetaBoyz gathering at end of July? And have you given thought as to how you wish to be paid for the cloth?

Thanks again, and well done you.

Graham
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
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chrisc
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« Reply #73 on: July 08, 2021, 03:39:21 PM »

Hi Chris,

Thanks so much for seeoing this through to completion, especially with the (very welcome!) distraction of your first baby. Is the Grand Reveal still on target for the BetaBoyz gathering at end of July? And have you given thought as to how you wish to be paid for the cloth?

Thanks again, and well done you.

Graham

Picture speaks a thousand words...





It'll be £80/metre for people buying off me - quoting myself

Quote
It'll be £80 a metre to buy - full disclosure I am an enthusiast who got into this because I wanted the cloth for my own car, I'm not really interested in selling the cloth for a profit, so this'll be a cheap introductory price, and any that doesn't sell quickly I intend to pass on to Beta Boyz to sell, which I would expect to be more than my own - certainly if I was doing this as a business I would be asking for more Smiley

With the cloth now with me I'll see if I can meet a stretch goal for the end of July meetup of not just bringing the cloth, but seeing if I can get a seat retrimmed in it to bring with me to show.

For those who just want it now, I just need to give some thought to payment method and shipping and it'll be good to go in a few days
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« Reply #74 on: July 08, 2021, 05:41:20 PM »

Hi Chris

Good news! I am happy to pay by BACS and supply my mobile number by PM so you can contact me on Whats App with your bank details (encrypted). My trimmer suggested 9 meters to do the whole car safely so that's what I would like.

I look forward to seeing it at Mark's Devon palace of parts.

Eric 

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chrisc
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« Reply #75 on: July 11, 2021, 06:21:09 PM »

Hi all, having contemplated various options I'm going to keep it simple

How much does it cost?
It'll be £80 a metre to buy - full disclosure I am an enthusiast who got into this because I wanted the cloth for my own car, I'm not really interested in selling the cloth for a profit, so this'll be a cheap introductory price, and any that doesn't sell quickly I intend to pass on to Beta Boyz to sell, which I would expect to be more than my own - certainly if I was doing this as a business I would be asking for more

How do I pay?
Bank transfer or if we're doing it in person, cash would also be fine.

When do I pay?
If I'm shipping it to you, it'll be payment in advance, in person we can do payment once you've seen the cloth and are happy with it.

How do I get the cloth?
Either
  • Collect in person - opportunities to do this either at the meetup in Devon, or from my address in Bristol
  • Courier via Parcelforce 48 hour shipping, insured for the full value. Insurance makes it relatively costly e.g. £40 if ordering 9 metres of cloth. If you want to go without insurance it'll still be tracked but only covered for £100, costing £10.32 at your own risk

Sounds good, how do I arrange it?
Whatsapp or call me - 07734 487775 is my mobile number

How much cloth will I need?
I'm working on Eric's earlier recommendation of 7-9 metres for a full interior

Can I get some for just the front seats?
Sure, but I would really recommend doing the whole interior to ensure a good colour match - even the best condition original fabric will have faded significantly by now

How does this compare to the original cloth?
The pattern and colour is practically identical to the original, the wool is less frayed, for want of a better word than the original type - so the pattern will appear slightly crisper than the original. The cloth is wool over a cotton base rather than the pure wool of the original, meaning it is more durable and should be less prone to pulls or wear.

What if I'm not happy with the cloth?
I think you will be, but if you aren't, provided it's as it arrived, if you pay to send it back, I'll refund you.

Bank transfer doesn't give me the best protection as a buyer, what assurances do I have you won't run off with my money?
You'll have my mobile number, my address, and a bunch of people who have met me, seen the cloth and know I'm genuine - if I run off with your money, you'll know exactly where to send the boys in blue / your mates with a crowbar Smiley

Edit : additional question's
How wide is the cloth?
The roll is 1.3m wide, so if you order 9m of cloth, that's 9m by 1.3m

Can you ship internationally?
Should be doable but insured international shipping is prohibitively expensive (e.g. £300 to australia) so as with uninsured uk shipping, you'll need to be happy to take that risk.

« Last Edit: July 14, 2021, 02:01:15 PM by chrisc » Logged

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« Reply #76 on: July 12, 2021, 04:42:43 PM »

Hi Chris

I have sent you a Whats App based on me collecting at Mark's do and paying by Bank Transfer.

Thank you

Eric
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« Reply #77 on: July 17, 2021, 06:02:34 PM »

Hello Chris,
thanks for email, I've sent a WhatsApp reply.

Eric, I guess 9m includes enough for the door cards too ?

Thanks Gents.
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« Reply #78 on: July 17, 2021, 08:32:09 PM »

Hi Martin

I am counting on doing the whole car including the door cards.

Eric
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chrisc
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« Reply #79 on: July 28, 2021, 05:06:13 PM »

Just a little update.. 56 metres now sold, expressions of interest at various stages in another 49 metres.. first few orders posted out to UK and Australia!

The observant amongst you will have noticed that totals more than the amount of cloth I had made, and indeed enough to justify another production run via the shop.

Looking forward to handing over a few batches in person this weekend
Chris
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