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Author Topic: Replacement Engine project  (Read 1570 times)
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peteracs
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« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2021, 10:24:32 AM »

Hi Graham

Curious what was used on your engine?

Peter
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« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2021, 10:28:40 AM »

Hi Peter

I forget sometimes that other people have not had the misery of being trained in lubricant technology. By Zinc you mean ZDDP which is an agent that promotes oil film retention and metal to metal pre-lubrication. It has been reduced in some modern oils because it is hostile to catalytic convertors. It's advantage is at cold start and first start. But too much in a freshly built engine and you can face serious bedding in issues particularly the rings which need to wear into the bores to create a seal. This is why you start with good quality running in oil not the finest Synthetic you will switch to after running in.

If pre-lubes dry out from storage you get problems with blocked drillings and oil starvation issues. New cams MUST be given start up lube just before start up to protect the case hardening and they need to run at 2000 RPM for 5 to 10 minutes to bed in. With used cams I have used moly grease coating at first start up with no issues. I like the Kent Cam lube for new cams. It has all you need and is easy to get.

Some engines have designed in lubrication challenges so may need more start up lubricants. If you go this way the engines needs a regular turn over and warm dry storage just like with engine oil. But you also want to be doing a swap to fresh running in oil and new filter soon after the first run up to temperature holding 2000 RPM.

Ultimately you make your own scary decisions.

Eric  
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squiglyzigly
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« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2021, 10:37:55 AM »

Thanks Eric,
I wasnít aware the ZDDP content was being reduced in oils to save cat converters. Iíve always liked that feature of modern lubricants. Sad

Ian
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VX HPE (resto started Sept Ď21)
Beta Saloon 2.0l s2 1979 (completed July 2020)
Beta coupť VX (completed April 2017)
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« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2021, 01:15:39 PM »

Hi Graham

Curious what was used on your engine?

Peter
Hi Peter,

I have to confess I am completely unaware of what was used on my engine build, but I'll ring Stanwood next week and find out what they use for engine reassembly lube.

Graham
« Last Edit: February 22, 2021, 11:35:14 AM by mangocrazy » Logged

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« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2021, 11:37:48 AM »

Hi Peter,

Just rang Stanwood and they tell me that they use Lubriplate 105 as an assembly grease. Here's a link:

https://www.lubriplate.com/Products/Grease/Multi-Purpose-Greases/100-Series/NO-105/

They stock it and will be happy to sell you a tube. Guy was always effusive in his admiration for Stanwood, and I have found them beyond reproach in all my dealings with them.

Cheers,

Graham
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
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« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2021, 12:13:27 PM »

Hi Graham

Many thanks for info

Peter
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« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2021, 03:23:25 PM »

Hi

I mentioned before, but here are some photos of tools purchased to help out with the engine.

First up is a set of Moore and Wright micrometers. These are used good condition ones, imperial, but happy to do the maths when needed. I did not fancy a set of the cheap Chinese ones as it appears they can be hit/miss on quality.

Next is a Chinese bore gauge. I really wanted this just to gauge how round the bores are and asses the best block and the need for rebore on the blocks I have. The machine shop can do the real accurate stuff.

Lastly a magnetic stand and a finger type dial gauge  (I have the rod type in the bore gauge). I bought this for the stand, but the dial gauge was only a little extra. Again my main reason for buying a cheap item was to give me an idea of variation, rather than anything which is super accurate.

Also on its way is a spring compression set, I already have the Fiat/Lancia tools for the shim replacement when that is needed.

Peter


* Micrometer.jpg (368.96 KB, 1280x960 - viewed 165 times.)

* Bore Gauge.jpg (262.94 KB, 768x1024 - viewed 165 times.)

* Magnetic Stand.jpg (475.48 KB, 1280x960 - viewed 163 times.)
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« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2021, 01:11:33 PM »

After being told the twin dcnf inlet manifold from Mangoletsi may be a long time arriving by Rally Design, I had a nice surprise. I had ordered it a few weeks ago and surprisingly had a call to say it had arrived and did I still want it! The answer was yes of course and arrived here today. Very happy with it and the price was just over £200 delivered which given the price asked for Alquati versions second hand looks to be a bargain in my books. Now I have this, can start deciding when to order the Jenvey throttle bodies which are made to order, so will be another longer timeframe item.

On a different subject, had a quick play with the spring compressor which turned out to be not ideal, but usable. The problem was the part which presses against the top of the valve spring has a lip which was not quite large enough diameter to fit over it. So a bit of use with a cutter will be needed to open it out to fit. The other issue is the collets are tight fit in the top of the cap and hence need a tap to release after a fair amount of static pressure is exerted via the spring compressor. After a bit of trial and error I was confident to do the job repeatedly. I was practicing on a spare head, not the one I am hoping to use.


* BFF25B13-EA6E-4FF7-9648-5BE5D36E8AD7.jpeg (122.19 KB, 640x480 - viewed 132 times.)
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« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2021, 07:23:46 PM »

It makes a nice surprise when parts actually turn up ahead of time and at a decent price!
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« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2021, 09:02:01 PM »

Hi Eric

Yes, I was surprised at the price given what folk were asking for second hand ones.

Peter
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« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2021, 11:04:18 AM »

Whilst I was thinking about it, I wondered if anyone knows how GC configured the swinging gate in his last version of the sump baffle? I have seen photos of the modified sump, but that just shows the upper plates and does not show what went on below them. I note from his comments here

http://www.guy-croft.com/viewtopic.php?t=3451

That this design was an improvement on the one currently sold by Mark (unless Mark has updated his and not the photos).

Peter
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« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2021, 05:55:50 PM »

Hi Peter

I have a GC one, but it is installed with the whole engine resting on it. Maybe I have photos. I will have to check.

Eric
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« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2021, 11:38:26 PM »

Hi All

I have read Grahamís thread on clutch replacements and Eric has suggested VX flywheel and associated clutch. However not having a VX flywheel and reading some of the comments it does appear careful choosing of clutch make rated for Delta HF turbo and using a standard 215mm flywheel which I have more than one may be the way to go. Anyone else have a comment or suggested supplier? I see Helix have a suitable one as do Spec, both at a significant price over the standard HF clutch kits.

Original thread

http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3120.0

Peter
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« Reply #33 on: May 20, 2021, 08:01:08 AM »

Hi Peter

Budget plays a part here. You can get a new lightened steel flywheel and clutch from Helix and solve multiple problems although it will still need balancing with the crank.
Any cast iron Beta flywheel will need lightening, surface grinding and crank testing. Plus maybe ring gear replacement if it is burred.

There are dozens of suppliers of VX 8V Integrale size lightened flywheels BUT finding quality could be tricky.

If a flywheel or the bolts holding it fails it gets very messy quickly. So not a place for compromise or bodges unless you like the scenes in Wacky Races with the Buzz saw chopping through cars!

Years ago you could get 1600 HF Turbo flywheels and drill out the bolt holes to a larger size to get a lighter flywheel. They were rare then and now!

New bolts are essential as is using the spring plate behind the bolt heads.   

Eric
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« Reply #34 on: May 20, 2021, 08:40:53 AM »

Hi All

I have read Grahamís thread on clutch replacements and Eric has suggested VX flywheel and associated clutch. However not having a VX flywheel and reading some of the comments it does appear careful choosing of clutch make rated for Delta HF turbo and using a standard 215mm flywheel which I have more than one may be the way to go. Anyone else have a comment or suggested supplier? I see Helix have a suitable one as do Spec, both at a significant price over the standard HF clutch kits.

Original thread

http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3120.0

Peter

Peter

I think I have VX flywheel if you need one
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« Reply #35 on: May 20, 2021, 03:11:27 PM »

Just throwing this out there as I havenít got a VX and a standard 2.0 n/a flywheel to hand for measuring, but what are the differences between the two?

Is it mainly the size of the clutch which means the raised face for the center plate clamp area on the flywheel is larger and the bolt holes for the larger pressure plate are a different spacing?
If so, couldnít a standard 2.0 n/a flywheel simply be re-faced and re-tapped for a 228mm clutch kit to fit? A quick easy job for a machining shop.

Or are the differences more significant so that a normally aspirated flywheel is physically smaller and cannot simply be machined to accept the larger clutch?

Ian



« Last Edit: May 20, 2021, 03:15:38 PM by squiglyzigly » Logged

VX HPE (resto started Sept Ď21)
Beta Saloon 2.0l s2 1979 (completed July 2020)
Beta coupť VX (completed April 2017)
Aprilia RSVR 2002
Alfa 159 sportwagon jtd eco (slower than a courgette)
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« Reply #36 on: May 20, 2021, 06:07:15 PM »

Hi Ian

Yes in theory but a bit messy practically because of the step on the flywheel face and the potential weakening of the flywheel from the extra holes is probably not worth the risk. VX flywheels are not that hard to find but will still need a surface grind and the right machining on the rear to lighten.

BTW if the lightening machining is not done correctly the cast iron flywheel will fail. See GC book for correct profiles. A new steel flywheel will be lighter and stronger.

Eric

PS you can get alloy flywheels with steel inserts, but I am not sure about their durability.
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« Reply #37 on: May 20, 2021, 06:43:20 PM »

Hi Eric

So is the VX one steel unlike the standard one?

Peter
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« Reply #38 on: May 20, 2021, 10:49:54 PM »

I have to admit that my choice of a VX flywheel and Thema Turbo 16V clutch was made largely on the grounds of cost, but also availability of parts further down the line. I was fortunate enough to get my crank and (VX) flywheel lightened and balanced by Guy Croft before his sad demise, and was also able to source a Thema Turbo 16V clutch at very reasonable cost. My reasoning was that if a clutch can handle the output of a spiky 201bhp Turbo engine, then it would have no problems with a far more docile normally aspirated 150-155bhp engine.

Manufacturers (for the most part) like to keep their stock inventory manageable and re-use or re-purpose parts wherever possible. I've upgraded motorcycles in very similar fashion, using parts off higher-spec models to freshen up and improve more lowly models in terms of engine, suspension and brakes at much lower cost than sourcing expensive aftermarket options. As long as you're not going for absolute top of the line spec then it's an approach that works well.
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
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« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2021, 08:03:10 AM »

Hi Peter

The VX Steel Item comes already lightened cutting out one more job in building a performance engine.

Eric
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