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https://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4385.0
 
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Author Topic: Horn push earthing - problem...  (Read 838 times)
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peteracs
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« on: October 29, 2020, 05:28:46 PM »

Hi All

Ongoing testing of electrics and come across a problem with the horn. The +ve side at the steering wheel is just fine, the problem is that the centre of the main steering column fixing the steering wheel has a variable resistance to earth and never gets anywhere near to a dead short, so anyone know where it should short to earth?

Peter
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Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Saab 9-3 1.9Tid Cabrio
peteracs
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« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2020, 06:13:23 PM »

Hi

I should have searched for an answer to this first.... sorry to waste your time.

This thread explains well what to look for.

https://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3497.0

Peter
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WestonE
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« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2020, 06:18:41 PM »

Sounds like time for big self tapping screw into the mount for the pedal box/ steering column connected to the earth wire for the column stalks. Remember painted things bolted to painted things do not conduct. In fact plated things bolted to painted things do not provide an earth return. Non PS Beta's usually have an earth tag on the rack shock absorber this is intended to provide an earth return through the column which is an interesting idea given paint and grease along the way.

I hope this is of some help.

Eric  
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peteracs
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« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2020, 06:59:52 PM »

Hi Eric

I am going to investigate further tomorrow, as you say hard to know which internal part of the steering column has a good connection to the external world.

Thanks for the suggestion

Peter
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« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2020, 02:11:54 PM »

Hi

I installed an earth on the tab of the steering damper and although that sorted the main rack earth, only did a little for the actual inner part of the column, also the three parts of the column in the cabin give differing results (meaning the connection between them is also poor), so am going to have a go at introducing an earthing connection near the steering wheel. Maybe a complete waste of time, but worth a go in my view given the flakey connection I have so far and the switch bank being so close with a really good earth is so tempting...

Peter
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« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2020, 09:45:05 AM »

Hi Peter

I think your strategy is sound. Those column switches burn out for several reasons and high resistance (poor Earth) is part of the story.

Eric
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« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2020, 01:05:12 PM »

I managed to get a decent earth by adding a strip of 1/2” wide copper, suitably bent to allow it to rub on the boss of the steering wheel and secured on the fastening screw of the switch assembly. These copper strips are widely available and used in modelling I understand, mine was sourced via Ebay. I used copper as that will wear and not the boss, also it is simple to shape due to being very malleable. Sorry no photo at present will do when I remove the steering wheel again.

Peter
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« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2021, 10:20:05 PM »

Hi there,
I got a horn problem, really suddenly.
Never had any horn issues in 15 years, and suddenly it stopped working.
I got my Coupé back for a 8-10 years "pause". Horn was working (my son loved to play with it) a week ago.
Since then, I did a lot of minor things ie : cleaning carburetor parts, cleaning the whole Battery Minus to engine/earths, cleaned a lot of earth connectors, cleaned the ignition contacts etc...
It's now working well (was way too rich)...but I lost the horn !

-Horns are working nice when put 12V on
-Relay has been swapped with a working one, without help.

Oddly enough, I cleaned the radiator earth connector yesterday, and the horn worked 10 seconds. I called my son, no horn anymore...
I tried to move the steering wheel, try with or without electrical equipments, nothing, so not a loose contact at the switch level probably. When it was working, it was working well : ie all positions, even a slight push would blow the trumpets

ALL other electrical equipments work fine, ruling out a fuse box/relay box major issue.
Fuse is OK btw.

I checked the cable in the post mentioned on this topic (the best wiring diagram for S2 models, definitely much easier to read). I see a simple black cable in the wheel which should be earthed.
The only earth I see (non PS beta here) is this one one the antiroll bar (I guess). I cleaned it up but I think this earth is pretty poor. Is that the wheel earth ?

I'm not sure to understand what peteracs did (a copper strip from "the boss of the steering wheel" to a clean earth near the switch assembly ? )
I'll clean my earth points behind the dashboard but if there is a way to grab better earth in these area (notably to start working on this beta fast indicator issue), I'll take it.
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peteracs
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« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2021, 11:19:31 PM »

Hi

The problem I found was that the rotating part of the steering column does not have a definite earth associated with it. However the switch assembly is fastened to outer part of the steering column via bolt which has a good earth. So I attached a length of copper strip to this bolt and it comes out and runs against the rear of the metal on the steering wheel where it attaches to the column via the splined boss. Sorry ai did not take a photo and my column is all put back together so not visible with the covers over it.

As a test, you can simply run a wire from the rear of the steering wheel to a convenient earth to check it is the earth causing the problem.

Peter
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« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2021, 11:19:08 PM »

Thanks a lot,
makes more sense now Smiley

Nonetheless, it seems really strange that a horn working for several years without any start of a problem suddenly stops working.
I found out that when "playing" with the round 6-oulet + yellow + black connector (items 41 + 46 on the http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3091/5866922555_a300d4ab87_o_d.jpg )  on the center section of the engine bay, it works again. It cleaned that up, nothing changed.

Is it easy to remove the center section of the wheel ?
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peteracs
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« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2021, 08:46:44 AM »

Hi

I think you need to use a meter and determine at what point you are not seeing the +12V before you push the horn push.

As to the steering wheel, removal is via the large nut after you remove the horn push section. The wheel is then located on splines and so you simply pull it off.

Peter
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« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2021, 09:53:45 PM »

I located the issue on the earth to black terminal wiring that plugs on the steering rack. It was becoming a bit loose. I cleaned the connector a while ago.
Shorting the bolt on the steering rack to the negative battery terminal makes it work perfectly. The inner circuit (and relay/fuse) is fine Smiley
A bit of tightening of this connector made the trick !
Thanks !
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