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News: Meetameeta21 Oxfordshire 27th-29th August
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Author Topic: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder  (Read 10555 times)
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #80 on: November 29, 2020, 02:39:58 PM »

I'm seriously impressed with the levels of perseverance and ingenuity on display here, Eric. You're basically rebuilding a car from scratch and adding in enhancements, major upgrades and new features that the original designers would never have contemplated. It's all breaking new ground in Beta ownership and that's never easy, simple or cheap.

Bon courage, mon ami...
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mtulloch
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« Reply #81 on: November 29, 2020, 04:47:18 PM »

The Fans front and rear come from Car Builder Solutions as I found their performance excellent on the Montecarlo with a low profile design. There is a Setrab 235 x 19 oil cooler mounted to the front of the radiator and I use 3 large studs on the base of the radiator in holes with rubber grommets in the lower cross member. I have 5mm Rivnuts fitted to the radiator top rail to mount the fixing plate which I designed in cereal box before making the alloy version.

I am using twin fans via one of the 2 new relay and fuse boxes because I want instant control of temperature spikes. Probably overkill for most people, but experience borrowed from the Monte along with running the water pump faster by using the Monte water pump pulley and the Beta Crank pulley.

I supplied a tatty VX radiator, sketched dimensioned design, fans and oil cooler to Concept Racing near Ross on Wye before discussing the power change and core options. The receipt is buried but somewhere in the region of 350. I might have found a cheaper supplier but I am happy with the quality of this critical part. I spent months looking at Radiators from other cars, but was frustrated by their poor fit.

The Nylon blocks used all over the car have some cross over to parts used by Land Rover. But mine came from Poland following a tip from Fred's documented restoration on this forum.      https://auto-spinka.pl/

I found I could source new screw in Nylon Blocks for the whole car and the Montecarlo a god send for a car that was completely stripped. I also sourced brake line clips and some other random clips from Bresco.   

Enjoy

Eric

Thanks for that, 275 + vat is what a local firm wants to re-core the original!
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #82 on: November 29, 2020, 06:52:59 PM »

The Fans front and rear come from Car Builder Solutions as I found their performance excellent on the Montecarlo with a low profile design. There is a Setrab 235 x 19 oil cooler mounted to the front of the radiator and I use 3 large studs on the base of the radiator in holes with rubber grommets in the lower cross member. I have 5mm Rivnuts fitted to the radiator top rail to mount the fixing plate which I designed in cereal box before making the alloy version.

I am using twin fans via one of the 2 new relay and fuse boxes because I want instant control of temperature spikes. Probably overkill for most people, but experience borrowed from the Monte along with running the water pump faster by using the Monte water pump pulley and the Beta Crank pulley.

I supplied a tatty VX radiator, sketched dimensioned design, fans and oil cooler to Concept Racing near Ross on Wye before discussing the power change and core options. The receipt is buried but somewhere in the region of 350. I might have found a cheaper supplier but I am happy with the quality of this critical part. I spent months looking at Radiators from other cars, but was frustrated by their poor fit.

Hi Eric, you must realise by now that all your posts of this nature elicit countless who/why/what/where/how questions. Here are mine... Cheesy

1. Is the bespoke radiator the same size as the VX. If not, which of the dimensions have changed?

2. Does the bespoke radiator use any of the OE radiator fixing points, or are they all new?

3. Is the front fan fitted on the opposite end of the radiator to the back fan?

4. What take off points on the engine do you use for flow/return lines for the oil cooler? Are they all connected from the oil filter housing?

Apologies if answers to these questions appear obvious...
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
WestonE
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« Reply #83 on: November 30, 2020, 01:59:53 PM »

Hi Graham

Some answers, but lacking precision

The radiator is slightly wider than the VX item based on making new flat radiator box ends and getting the maximum cooling. It also has a thicker high efficiency core. I included a drain, air bleed and 22mm boss for the OE style fan switch.

I ignored the OE lower fixings because I wanted it as far forward as possible for clearance for the remote filter and Accusump fittings. By using 3 pegs on the base into grommets I had to drill 3 holes and fit the grommets to tilt the radiator forward so I could use a flat plate fixing at the top.

3 Yes

4 I use a Torques sandwich plate AN10 take off plate to use their alloy AN10 fittings for push on hose. I have a remote filter head from Toques to be fitted in front of the starter motor and have to make a fixing for the oil temp thermostat. The Accusump is fitted vertically on the left chassis leg having removed the extra unused engine shock absorber mount. Fun and games with getting the top gauge and bottom outlets at 90 degrees but otherwise it fits neatly.  I have yet to finish this plumbing because it needs the engine and gearbox installed to get right.

PS I went to AN10 from BSP fittings because they are lighter than the typical BSP steel parts and cheaper. I will never use Think Automotive again after receiving a low quality remote filter head for the Monte that gave horrible problems.

Eric     
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #84 on: December 01, 2020, 02:19:46 PM »

Hi Eric,

Many thanks for that. When the time comes I may very well use the same people as yourself for a replacement radiator. My requirements won't be as severe as yours, but as the car will live in the Soth of France I think an uprated radiator with good fans makes complete sense.

I suspect you may assumed more knowledge on my part than I actually have when replying to my question about oil cooler take-offs. I have no practical experience with oil coolers and was wondering whether there are points on a standard Beta block where the oil cooler flow and return lines bolt up to, or whether some modifications are required to enable fitment of an oil cooler. If modifications are needed then it would be sensible to make them with the engine out of the car. My oil filter housing is a standard carb Beta unit with a vertical oil filter spigot.
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
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« Reply #85 on: December 01, 2020, 03:54:31 PM »

Hi Graham. I recommend looking at GC's first book on oil cooler layout and components. I have:
Oil Cooler - 19 row 235 matrix by Setrab with AN -10 male fittings
Remote Oil Filter Block with 4 AN-10 ports 1 of which takes the Accusump
External Oil thermostat with 4x AN 10 ports
Oil filter take off plate and cap that goes in place of the oil filter on the engine.

I use alloy push on fittings and aeroquip push on hose. You heat it in boiling water before pushing it onto the fitting immediately. It will only come off by being cut off. You make line patterns by wasting old garden hose on the push on fittings until you are happy you have it right for the expensive hose.   

NB AN is Army and Navy from Vietnam war helicopter fittings -3 is small -12 is large. Typically -6 for fuel lines -3 for Brake lines - 4 for clutch lines and -10 for oil lines. buy the hose for the system being used or suffer later. 

[/img]


* OIl Block Take Off and Sensors (Large).jpg (334.01 KB, 1080x1441 - viewed 244 times.)

* OIl Block Take Off below VX (Large).jpg (361.02 KB, 1440x1080 - viewed 248 times.)
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WestonE
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« Reply #86 on: December 01, 2020, 04:00:35 PM »

The Oil Filter take off block has a sensor port for oil temperature and the 2 AN -10 fittings with silver gaffer tape currently. It can be turned 360 degrees so we will see where it ends up when I plumb it. You also see how I am feeding the OE gauges and the ECU. The tall silver sensor is an AEM pressure sensor for the ECU and is actually accurate which the OEM items definitely are not.

Enjoy

Eric
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #87 on: December 01, 2020, 09:05:43 PM »

NB AN is Army and Navy from Vietnam war helicopter fittings -3 is small -12 is large. Typically -6 for fuel lines -3 for Brake lines - 4 for clutch lines and -10 for oil lines. buy the hose for the system being used or suffer later. 
Ah yes, the 'dash' system. Took me a while to figure out but now makes sense. Where did you get your oil filter take off plate and cap from? Thanks for the info on the hose and fittings. Measure many times, cut once...

I keep forgetting about the original GC book. It's a treasure trove of information.
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
markw
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« Reply #88 on: December 04, 2020, 03:26:11 AM »

Fantastic work, Eric. I don't know if you've mentioned this before, but what flywheel/clutch combination are you using on your two volumex drivetrains? Do you know what weight flywheel you have used on each?
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« Reply #89 on: December 04, 2020, 10:13:26 AM »

Hi Mark

On this car the flywheel is a GC lightened and balanced OE VX flywheel. I do not have the weight to hand it is in the spec file. The VX flywheel takes 8V Integrale clutches which gives lots of options. On the VMET (Abarth Volumetrico) Montecarlo I have a Helix Steel Flywheel to VX/ 8V Integrale size and Helix Clutch. Both with new bolts because flying circular saws look better in cartoons!

Eric   
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WestonE
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« Reply #90 on: December 04, 2020, 06:10:10 PM »

Credit Due to Graham for an idea I have copied to avoid fun with an engine in a padded wheel barrow as transport to the car. I want the engine off the stand and on easily moved wheels for easier workshop use and transport when I am ready. I have used an industrial crate shifting dolly that is a 600 x 400 frame I can just drop my engine cradle into or use for shifting crates around at a later date. Made from an old wardrobe door, left over bits of plywood and some old framing timber.

 


* Engine Transport Box.jpg (727.23 KB, 2016x1512 - viewed 221 times.)
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WestonE
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« Reply #91 on: December 04, 2020, 06:21:11 PM »

Hi Graham

The Take Off Plate and Cover come from the Torques shop on ebay  https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/Torques-U-K?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Torques-Oil-Sandwich-Plate-Take-Off-System-Kit-In-BLACK-AN-10-JIC-10-3-4x16-UNF/360783211953?hash=item54005aedb1:g:2YIAAMXQBNlRf6vQ

NB you might want the thermostatic one if you are not running an Accusump. If in doubt sketch the layout with flow arrows. 

Remote Filter Head

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Torques-Remote-Billet-Aluminium-Oil-Filter-Housing-BLACK-AN-10-JIC-10-3-4-UNF/360780408901?hash=item5400302845:g:E8QAAMXQY8JRhKYT

The range on their shop solves most problems!

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« Reply #92 on: December 08, 2020, 05:19:48 PM »

Engine in a Box with wheels.


* Engine in the Box Stand (Large).jpg (426.12 KB, 1080x1440 - viewed 209 times.)
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betabuoy
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« Reply #93 on: December 08, 2020, 07:02:43 PM »

Beautiful
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #94 on: December 12, 2020, 05:25:36 PM »

Nice one, Eric! Your dolly/padded wheel barrow is carrying a lot more weight than mine! That engine looks positively delicious and very happy in its new mobile home,

Thanks for the links to the Torques fittings. I'm sure I can find what I need from their range of fitments.
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
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« Reply #95 on: December 23, 2020, 06:53:35 PM »

A major hood frame strip, sandblast, Epoxy Powder coat, New Webbing straps, Stainless bolts and screws. Plus NOS catches painted and I am nearly ready to fit the new Mohair hood.
Webbing Buckles and Straps provided great and cheap new straps. Getting the old powder coat off was tricky as Sandblasting would bounce off without some stripping. A blow torch scrapper mask and plenty of ventilation and most of it was scrapped off allowing rust treatment and sandblasting.

One of my hood frames only had the hood holding the rust together frankly and one of the hold down bars was more rust than bar. Amazing that the factory did not even paint inside the hood frame box section never mind rust proof it. Mine has the Dinitrol treatment.

[/img]   


* Hood Frame in Epoxy Powder Coat.jpg (623.02 KB, 2016x1512 - viewed 129 times.)

* Hood Frame New straps and Stainless Screws and bolts.jpg (618.41 KB, 2016x1512 - viewed 122 times.)
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WestonE
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« Reply #96 on: December 23, 2020, 06:59:30 PM »

A little Targa Roof sound proofing with 4 mm foam under new sound cloth means I can now be a dress maker with my new pattern skills. I have 1 painted roof and 1 OE texture with a lot of hours spent getting the catches and clamps fit to use. This included re-surfacing the leather and re-building the clamp pads. [/img] 


* Targa Roof 2 Layer Lining.jpg (634.84 KB, 2016x1512 - viewed 126 times.)

* Targa Roof rebuilt Clamps and Stainless Screws.jpg (544.13 KB, 2016x1512 - viewed 124 times.)
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Nigel
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« Reply #97 on: December 23, 2020, 08:36:07 PM »

Now that's work I'd be very scared of, especially the frame!

Thanks for your comments on mine Eric.

Nigel
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1984 2.0 Carb HPE [ex Aus] Silver..turning to Grey Finanza.
2007 Mazda 6 2.3 [current daily, highly recommended]
The past:
1980 2.0 HPE White in South Africa [hope it survives!]
1976 1.6 Coupe Lancia Blu [PFG 76R] [probably deceased]
oh,and an Uno Turbo 1997 also in SA [stolen,never recovered]
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« Reply #98 on: December 23, 2020, 10:10:20 PM »

Very nice work, makes mine look decidedly second hand.

Peter
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #99 on: December 24, 2020, 10:35:56 AM »

Top work, Eric. I sympathise with you in getting old powder coat off. Commercial places don't even try to blast it off initially, they just dip it in some 'not available to the general public' brew, then blast. And modern paint strippers are pretty poor things, as the major active ingredient has been removed.

Very much liking the additional layer of soundproofing and the incredible attention to detail. I'll be using your work as a template when mine finally gets done.
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
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