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Author Topic: Beta Spider 2000 engine rebuild/refurb  (Read 17693 times)
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #120 on: June 27, 2021, 12:44:54 PM »

Hi Eric,

Many thanks for that, much appreciated. There are no less than 3 genuine top-mounted Weber linkages, one with a single cable, two with twin cables; LP1000, LP2000 and LP2500 respectively. As far as I can make out the LP1000 and LP2000 cables enter from the LH side of the car when viewed from the front, and the LP2500 cables enter from the RH side of the car (which may be better suited to a LHD car). Having said that, the quality of the castings and machining on the LP2500 linkage is superb. Here are equivalent photos for the LP1000, LP2000 and LP2500. Which one did you use, Eric? (Assuming it was actually one of these).

Graham



* Weber_LP1000_linkage_001.JPG (100.84 KB, 1154x821 - viewed 226 times.)

* Weber_LP2000_linkage_001.JPG (104.12 KB, 1165x951 - viewed 218 times.)

* Weber_LP2500_linkage_002.JPG (111.78 KB, 1146x825 - viewed 218 times.)
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
mangocrazy
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« Reply #121 on: July 02, 2021, 05:06:16 PM »

More small steps today. I hunted down some manifold studs of the required size from WDS Components (https://www.wdscomponents.com/en-gb/metric-steel-studs-wds-405/c-424/p-394/v-4754, in M8 x 1.25 and an overall length of 50mm. I fitted these earlier and effectively made them a permanent fixture with green (strong) Loctite. Prior to that I'd established that there was sufficient clearance when the carbs were mounted using the Misab plates between the end of the stud and the carb body. There was - about 2 mm. It was a real juggling act in terms of getting the studs long enough to allow fitment of the two cup washers, rubber sleeve and nyloc nut and not so long that the end of the stud fouled the carb body.

Prior to that I'd done the final fit of the GC manifold to the head using wave washers and Aerotight nuts, and tightening the nuts up as much and as evenly as I could manage. Final tightening will be at the next visit, as I need to dig out my stubby ring/OE spanners and also grind a sacrificial ring spanner sufficiently to allow me to get the spanner head over the nut (clearance to manifold is VERY tight). My collection of 'special tools' is expanding...
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
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« Reply #122 on: July 02, 2021, 05:37:26 PM »

Hi Graham

The second one with one cable, but I should have used the first one with an adapted cable.

Eric 
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #123 on: July 02, 2021, 08:21:18 PM »

Thanks Eric, I'd pretty much decided on the first one. Two operating cables is just another opportunity for something to go out of balance. The only way I've seen it used successfully is on many bike throttle cables where there is a 'push me pull you' opening and closing cable.

Thanks for the confirmation.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2021, 08:26:39 PM by mangocrazy » Logged

1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
mangocrazy
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« Reply #124 on: July 13, 2021, 09:26:33 PM »

The LP1000 linkage has been purchased and delivered, but is still currently sitting in its box. My focus has currently turned to the dipstick tube, as that is in the area I'm working on, and needs resolution before I go much further. I was hopeful that the OE dipstick tube could be made to fit between the inlet manifold ports for cylinders 1 and 2, but after removing the locating bracket it appears that it still doesn't, and a new dipstick tube will need to be fabricated. Bugger.

So some 10mm mild steel tube has been ordered and my Rothenberger tube bending tool has been retrieved from the depths of my plumbing tool kit. This is all going to be a case of bend the tube - trial fit - bend the tube some more - trial fit - get it something like - fabricate a bracket - trial fit - attach bracket to tube temporarily - trial fit etc. etc
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
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« Reply #125 on: September 02, 2021, 09:29:17 PM »

It's taken me this long to get the replacement dipstick tube bent to shape (several iterations were required before I was happy), fabricated the top section where the rubber part  of the dipstick sits, got all the bits welded up and got the part electroless nickel plated. It just squeezes into the tube in the block as it passes inside the inlet manifold, and the top section is only a fraction of a millimetre away from the manifold. I'll probably wrap that section in rubber or foam, Ithink. But it fits and it moves the dipstick holder away from the no-mans-land near the distributor and frees up a tiny bit of space in front of the dizzy. I've yet to figure out how to clamp it in place, but I'm working on ideas.

Here are the obligatory pictures. First is a comparison between new and old dipstick holders. The OE part has had its mounting bracket removed. Then there is a front on view of the part in place, then views from three-quarter and looking straight down.



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« Last Edit: September 02, 2021, 09:31:21 PM by mangocrazy » Logged

1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
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« Reply #126 on: September 10, 2021, 03:55:44 PM »

At last, some more major progress to report. The 'enabler' has been the creation of a Mk 2 engine dolly that has allowed me to fit the flywheel (the Mk 1 didn't) and subsequently the clutch. It also provides full access to the oil filter housing so I can fit the Torques oil cooler take-off. Lastly, it will allow the gearbox to be fitted , once I've made up the necessary supports on the extended deck. I'll need to measure up carefully to get heights and dimensions right, but it should aid fitment and will also give support to the gearbox once fitted.

So the flywheel has been fitted as per GC's instructions (and TDC 1 & 4 green pen mark) and torqued up to 100 lb/ft. It's certainly proper tight... Then I was able to use the clutch centring tool I had made up, which made centring the drive plate a breeze. Next the outer housing was fitted. I'm glad I don't have to fit a new clutch lying on the floor, as locating the dowels in the housing has to be absolutely precise. Get all three dowels 'just' located in their respective holes, then fit the six M8 bolts finger tight, slowly and gradually tightening them up in sequence. Prior to that I'd cleaned all the clutch and flywheel surfaces with brake cleaner - lots of it. The green pen that Guy used to marke TDC on the flywheel was completely untouched by all the cleaning, I noticed. The flywheel is a VX unit, lightened, balanced and skimmed by GC and the clutch is a 16v Thema Turbo unit.

So the next step will be to drag the gearbox out of its storage place, fit the clutch release bearing, operating arms and top hat collar and work out how best to mate it with the engine.

But that will have to wait for a while - I'm off to France on Monday to visit the moneypit (and Spider) and hope that nothing untoward has happened to either in the intervening 12 months. Fingers crossed.

Pictures of the engine on its new stand follow...


* DSC_5680.JPG (319.53 KB, 993x792 - viewed 109 times.)

* DSC_5682.JPG (287.23 KB, 889x723 - viewed 109 times.)

* DSC_5690.JPG (268.53 KB, 653x1015 - viewed 114 times.)

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* DSC_5676.JPG (292.67 KB, 654x940 - viewed 111 times.)
« Last Edit: September 10, 2021, 03:59:12 PM by mangocrazy » Logged

1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
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« Reply #127 on: September 10, 2021, 04:02:22 PM »

Hi Graham

And very nice looking too.

Keep on chipping away, you will get to the end of the road.

Hope your trip to France is a success, we are off in a weeks time and see the testing requirements ha e been eased somewhat which is a welcome move.

Peter
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« Reply #128 on: September 10, 2021, 04:13:30 PM »

Hi Graham

Nice work and suitably shinny. I still love your engine dolly idea. As you know I copied it to be able to move my engine closer to the engine bay. I never considered fitting the gearbox with it in the Dolly and might play with some empty casings I use for mock ups.

Eric
PS I prefer stronger Cap head bolts with Snor serrated washers for securing the clutch. But I am giving the whole assembly a lot of load so no need to switch over. I also use the Helix VX Steel flywheel simply because it is stronger.     
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #129 on: September 10, 2021, 04:47:16 PM »

Thanks chaps...

Peter,

Yes, I'm a bit apprehensive about it all, but it's either now or wait until next year. I'v downloaded the necessary self-certification doc and got my fully vaccinated ststus confirmed by an NHS doc, so I've done as much as I can.

And yes, keep chipping away and one day it will be done...

Eric,

The bolts you see there will not be the ones used- they were just used to pull the housing up to the FW. They're only nipped up. I'll be doing as you've done, using 10.9 cap head bolts and snorr washers. It's not coming off without my say-so...
That dolly was definitely one of my better ideas, if I say so myself. The Mk 2 has 6 castors, each with a load capacity of 150 kg, so it's suitably over-engineered.
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
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« Reply #130 on: October 28, 2021, 12:29:51 PM »

Well, here we are again - one step forward, two steps back.

Yesterday I completed a task I hadn't been looking forward to - manhandling the component parts of a 2 ton engine hoist up from the cellar, reassembling them and using said hoist to lift the engine out of the Mk. II dolly. I needed to do this so I could rout a 30mm x 12mm wide groove in one wall of the frame so that it would clear the non-OE sump plug I'm using. This dispenses with the internal taper thread OE plug and uses a 'standard' external hex head sump plug with copper washer. I've always found the OE Lancia sump plug a painful piece of work, with the internal hex head prone to rounding off.

So a while back I converted the taper thread to parallel by use of the  appropriate tap, but had omitted to make allowance for the extra projection when designing the Mk II dolly. I rectified this oversight using my DeWalt palm router, reassembled that part of the dolly, dropped the engine back into the dolly, then dismantled the engine hoist and returned it to its resting place in the cellar.

Nest step was to remove the placeholding bolts on the clutch to flywheel fixing and replace them with 12.9 cap head screws and Schnorr washers, torqued up to 24 Nm, and with a dab of blue Loctite applied for good measure. So far so good.

Then I turned my attention to the back water rail, which was similarly just held in place rather than finally tightened up. I'd planned a belt and braces approach on the water pump to back rail interface, using a combination of a fibre gasket I'd made up, Wurth assembly paste and an o-ring of a suitable size. Everything was lined up, partially tightened and then finally tightened to 24 Nm. All except the top water pump stud/nut, which wasn't coming up to torque, and was starting to feel 'wrong'. That was the point at which I should have stopped and taken stock. Except I didn't and wound up with a sheared stud.

So now the water pump has to come off and have the stud drilled out, an exercise that always fills me with deep joy... And before I can get the pump off, I have to remove the pulley which (from past experience) I know will need an impact gun. And the impact gun is in Sheffield and the engine is in Stafford.

Bugger.
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
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« Reply #131 on: October 28, 2021, 02:45:49 PM »

Pulley removal - If my memory is right is 3*10mm bolts? I am going back over 30 years now but bear with me.

You need two 10mm flat ring end spanners  Fit one spanner to the first bolt head and the second spanner to the second bolt head. Use one to  tighten the bolt and the other spanner to undo it's bolt. Once you've loosened it repeat for the third bolt which leaves you with one to undo. Leaving the two slack bolts in place put the ring end on one head and the shaft of the spanner against the exposed threads of the second loose bolt. This can be used to stop the pulley rotating and give enough leverage to allow you to remove the third bolt.

Refitting is a little trickier as you end up with two bolts fully tightened with no exposed shaft to provide leverage. I've succeeded with an offset ring spanner and a socket set using the same principles but an extra pair of hands helps!

Guy
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« Reply #132 on: October 28, 2021, 05:35:21 PM »

Yes, I was scratching my head on that one. I'm pretty sure that the water pump pulley is held on by 3 x M8 bolts, in my case they're cap head screws. And Loctited, if I remember correctly...

So I'm going to try and fix this 'in situ', if I can. There is about 8-10mm of thread protruding from the pump flange, so I intend to thread a half-nut on leaving a mm gap between nut and flange, and then fill the depression in the nut with weld, and then (hopefully) remove the remains of the stud and nut attached with a 13mm spanner/socket. I'll be covering all the surrounding area with welding blanket to minimise spark damage, and with any luck I won't need to go through pulley removal hell. If it works I can either replace the stud with a new one or just use a bolt.

Plan B will be very similar to what you've outlined...  Smiley
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
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« Reply #133 on: October 28, 2021, 10:47:53 PM »

A flat screwdriver end can be wedged between the end of the water pump shaft and one of the nuts and is usually good enough to hold the pulley if all else fails.
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« Reply #134 on: November 23, 2021, 08:15:23 PM »

I've finally managed to get back to where the engine is and try out my cunning plan for the broken stud removal. I came armed with my cheapo Aldi arc/stick welder, a welding blanket, a couple of stainless M8 penny washers and The Plan. First step was to put one of the M8 penny washers over the sheared stud and flange. Next step was to drape the welding blanket over the engine and stand, then cut a small hole through which would poke the remains of the stud. Another M8 penny washer was then placed over the stud and blanket, and lastly a BZP M8 nut was screwed onto the stud to a suitable depth. Both washers were stainless, to minimise the chances of weld sticking to them.

Then I cranked the current up to 70A (I wanted really good penetration on this) and with huge trepidation, fired up the arc. It caught pretty much instantly and was sufficiently fierce to blow one flat of the nut away. Thankfully there was good weld depth in the middle, and once everything had cooled down I tentatively tried the nut with a 13mm spanner.

Joy of joys, it started to unscrew (very tight at first) then increasingly easily. The weld held and soon I had the offending stud removed and an M8 hole was where the stud had been. The thread was undamaged and, thanks to my precautions, so was the water pump flange, engine and stand. I'm very glad I used the welding blanket, as it took all the brunt of the heat and weld spatter.

So for once I have nothing but good news to report. Long may it continue...


* DSC_5889.JPG (259.95 KB, 695x874 - viewed 27 times.)

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« Last Edit: November 23, 2021, 08:17:31 PM by mangocrazy » Logged

1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
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« Reply #135 on: November 23, 2021, 10:13:47 PM »

Hi Graham

Good result!

Just curious if a stud extractor may have been a simpler option given the amount of stud exposed?

Peter
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« Reply #136 on: November 23, 2021, 10:27:50 PM »

Loosened by heat from the welder..
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« Reply #137 on: November 23, 2021, 10:32:01 PM »

Hi Graham

Good result!

Just curious if a stud extractor may have been a simpler option given the amount of stud exposed?

Peter

That was an option, but I've found that stud ectractors normally need more stud to bite on. There was less than 10mm proud of the flange. Also, on inspection of the stud after it was removed, it had what looked to be green Loctite on it, which needs serious heat soak to get it to release its grip. The welding process did that (the nut and stud were glowing orange-red), so that was a very useful by-product of the welding process.

I can't tell you how relieved I was when the stud started moving...
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
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« Reply #138 on: November 23, 2021, 11:25:53 PM »

Hi Graham

Good point about the loctite, I am just to do battle with the rear calliper carrier bolts on the Saab which are loctited in and not looking forward to it after the fun and games with the fronts.

Peter
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« Reply #139 on: November 24, 2021, 02:01:54 AM »

Hi Graham

Good point about the loctite, I am just to do battle with the rear calliper carrier bolts on the Saab which are loctited in and not looking forward to it after the fun and games with the fronts.

Peter

Hi Peter,

If it's the same stuff they used on the fronts(and it almost certainly will be), I'd be looking at a plumbers torch and MAPP gas to heat them up. I'd also invest in some plumber's heat mats to cover any hoses, brake lines etc. in the vicinity.

Good luck...

Graham
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
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