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Author Topic: Differential unit output seals - dimensions  (Read 9402 times)
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lukasdeopalenica
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« on: July 18, 2013, 03:51:29 PM »

Does anyone from you Guys know the mentioned seals designation? I mean the seal and sealing oring that are placed in the diff unit output covering plate. Or maybe someone has a stripped box and could measure it for me. I would be really grateful. It is another thing I neglected during renovation that now takes its revenge. Having had box alone it was much easier to replace such elements. I filled the box with synthetic oil and now it found it is way to runaway from the inner driveshaft seal :/
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« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2013, 11:22:03 AM »

Hi there,

I just put an LSD in my gearbox and took some photos of the seal dimensions: 52x35x9mm


* diff seal 1.jpg (135.09 KB, 640x480 - viewed 607 times.)

* diff seal2.jpg (119.09 KB, 640x480 - viewed 762 times.)
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lukasdeopalenica
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« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2013, 07:21:11 AM »

Thanks a lot.
Which side is it, outer or inner? As far as I know they should be different. And not only due to reverse rotation but also they have different dimensions. best regards
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Lancia Beta HPE 2000i.e. '82 rosso corsa
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« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2013, 12:37:49 PM »

The dimensions are the same (52 x 35) not sure about the depth, but it looks like only the rotation is different.

The housings are different side to side though. Mine is an early S1 1800 gearbox, but I have a VX gearbox as well which has same seal dimensions.
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lukasdeopalenica
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« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2013, 07:33:23 AM »

Thank you very much  Cool
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Lancia Beta HPE 2000i.e. '82 rosso corsa
SAAB 900i 16V Aero, '93 solid black
Subaru Outback 3.0R
Honda CB125 K6 '76 electric blue
Specialized Epic & Stumpjumper
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« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2013, 10:14:32 PM »

Hi chaps, I overhauled my 2 litre HPE ie gearbox last year but couldnt get the output seals anywhere in time for the rebuild
so....  I dressed up the output shafts to a near mirror like finish with some 'fine' scotch brite pad, I then removed the coil spring
from the recess in the old oil seals lip, I then unscrewed it, its like a very long coil spring when undone. it has a reduced end that screws in the oposite end to form a tension band around the seals lip. I then counted 5 coils on the open end and snipped them off with some nail clippers, the two ends are joined again to form the band which now adds just that little extra tension to the mating face between seal and output shaft to
compensate for the marginal wear in both components, it seems to have worked as 400+ miles covered so far and whereas before there was
a regular drip on the garage floor its now dry? I found some 'O' rings that fitted so replaced the old ones and applied some silicon to the mating faces for good measure.
Both my cover plates and seals appeared to be identical apart from a shim under one of them? 
I was unaware that the seals are 'Handed'Huh? in a rotational respect? (Not convinced that it really matters anyway?) I don't recall that my local seal supplier has ever asked me when I place an order whether I want clockwise or anticlockwise rotation application seals? Undecided

Are the seals available by aftermarket suppliers or did Fiat/Lancia make them just that little bit different for a laugh Roll Eyes ??
kev b.
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HFStuart
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« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2013, 10:51:14 PM »

They're a standard R21 or R23 (sile or double lip respectively - I can't remember which these ones are) type seal available from bearing factors etc
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lukasdeopalenica
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« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2013, 07:53:32 AM »

The rotation direction really does matter Kev, as the sealing lip of the seal is designed to tightly seal only in the one specified direction. Comparing part numbers listed in the microfiche catalogue there is a difference between the left and right diff output seals. Maybe only due to the markings.
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Lancia Beta HPE 2000i.e. '82 rosso corsa
SAAB 900i 16V Aero, '93 solid black
Subaru Outback 3.0R
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« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2013, 10:38:57 AM »

I think I have the answer now. The seal of the engine side is 52x35x9mm. The seal on the gearbox side is 50x35x9mm.......Only an Italian company would make the seals different on each side! Sorry if I misled you before....

I tried to obtain seals from an industrial bearing stockist and they only stock double lipped seals that are bidirectional and 7mm wide. I would not be worried by the seals being narrower, as this will mean the seal will sit on an unworn section of shaft.
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« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2013, 07:56:18 PM »

Sorry guys,I was not aware of that fact in regards to seal rotational direction, Embarrassed ( I did notice the tiny angled flutes on the
inner edge of the lip but dismissed them as manufacturing surfaces to eject them from the die during manufacture Undecided)
anyway,  when my bodge 'fails' ? I will at least appear knowledgeable to the guy at the bearing/seal outfit when I ask him for
rotational specific seals Shocked
lukasdeopalenica, I bow to your greater knowledge and hang my head in shame Cry I guess my post was really a 'Yorkshiremans' cost
saving shortcut in utilising the old seals if new ones aren't available at the time of repair? I would certainly not insist
that this is fix for everyone but I have applied this 'wheeze' to camshaft, distributor and as mentioned gearbox seals
and it certainly works for me Smiley
I hope you get some replacements 75coupe Grin and maintain a clean driveway as a result Roll Eyes
kev b. 
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lukasdeopalenica
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« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2013, 07:21:27 AM »

So we got the answer. Thanks Guys  Cool
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Lancia Beta HPE 2000i.e. '82 rosso corsa
SAAB 900i 16V Aero, '93 solid black
Subaru Outback 3.0R
Honda CB125 K6 '76 electric blue
Specialized Epic & Stumpjumper
75coupe
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1975 Beta coupe 2L


« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2013, 07:12:43 AM »

Quote
Sorry guys,I was not aware of that fact in regards to seal rotational direction, Embarrassed ( I did notice the tiny angled flutes on the
inner edge of the lip but dismissed them as manufacturing surfaces to eject them from the die during manufacture Undecided)
anyway,  when my bodge 'fails' ? I will at least appear knowledgeable to the guy at the bearing/seal outfit when I ask him for
rotational specific seals Shocked
lukasdeopalenica, I bow to your greater knowledge and hang my head in shame Cry I guess my post was really a 'Yorkshiremans' cost
saving shortcut in utilising the old seals if new ones aren't available at the time of repair? I would certainly not insist
that this is fix for everyone but I have applied this 'wheeze' to camshaft, distributor and as mentioned gearbox seals
and it certainly works for me Smiley
I hope you get some replacements 75coupe Grin and maintain a clean driveway as a result Roll Eyes
kev b. 

Kev - don't beat yourself up! I like your thinking outside the square approach to problems!! I've done my fare share of "interesting" engineering over the years too.

I fitted off the shelf "bi directional" seals which were slightly narrower at 7mm wide and seem fine so far. I have a track day in a couple of weeks so will see how they stand up at 120mph......

Cheers Ian
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Tone
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« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2015, 10:06:08 PM »

Corteco 01012016B
Corteco 19026766B

But don't know about direction...
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lbcoupe76
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« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2015, 03:14:01 AM »

You think the Italians are bad, Toyota is shocking. not only is just about every seal different but two of the same model vehicle (same year and everything) can have completely different components, you absolutely need your vin number for them lol. Lost count of the number of made from cheese Hilux CWP sets i have ordered for customers only to find it has a completely different diff than it is supposed to (there is three completely different rear diff, not just ratio). But the Nissan Navara D40 takes the cake, front diff carrier bearings are unique to just that one diff and are not usually carried in stock, only available from Nissan and only genuine, plus if you want to change the rear wheel bearings you have to buy a complete half shaft assembly (not kidding).

So mayby Lancia is not so bad Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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lukasdeopalenica
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« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2015, 07:15:23 AM »

Italian cars are really not bad, at least to me  Wink
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Lancia Beta HPE 2000i.e. '82 rosso corsa
SAAB 900i 16V Aero, '93 solid black
Subaru Outback 3.0R
Honda CB125 K6 '76 electric blue
Specialized Epic & Stumpjumper
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