Newbie here

[Emjay]

Hi everyone,

newbie here and my first post so thought I would drop by and say hello. Currently do not and have never owned a Lancia let alone a Beta. Am currently in negotiations with a guy regarding a beta coupe and will be viewing next week. Any viewing tips, things to watch out for would be really appreciated.

Meanwhile I also own a 1982 Audi Coupe GT5S and am a regular contributor on Classic Audi (same user name).

Cheers

Martyn 

[HFStuart]

Welcome. There's an FAQ somewhere on here that will give you most pointers you'll need.

Most mechanical stuff is pretty simple and relatively cheap to sort - especially if you're handy with the spanners. Trim and bodywork however are less easy to source and fix. Look for rust everywhere but in particular the rear inner and outer wings, the rear suspension turrets, boot floor at the sides, screen surround front crossmember, floorpan and inner sills.

What year and model is the Coupe you're looking at ?

Stuart

[MattNoVAT]

Hi EmJay,

As Stuart says theres some great info on the FAQ and I recently posted some bits in the Cars wanted as someone was asking similar type of question.

Where are you located?  You never know there may be someone close who could assist...


cheers

Matt

[Emjay]

Hi Stuart, Matt

thanks for the warm welcome and info on buying. Very useful stuff.

This is the motor in question.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=130281083433

Been in touch with the seller all week and all looks promising. Just doing all the due diligence at the moment. HPI looks ok, got a viewing on Monday. Seems to have loads of history, is supposedly original etc. Would appreciate your thoughts.

As for me I'm based in Stockport. Got a Volvo S80 as a daily hack and and a Gobi Gold Audi coupe as my daily classic which I am currently taking back to her original condition. Hope it's ok posting up a pic of her here? 

[MattNoVAT]

That was my first Lancia Beta (not that exact car) a Series 1 1600 Coupe, it was the car that started my 22 year passion!

Stylish, quick and a joy to drive.  Looks in great condition, I'd looked at it when it first hit Ebay and had a nostalgia moment... looks to be very original.  I hope she holds up to close inspection.

I like the old Audi too, was admiring them at the Chatsworth Rally last year, yum yum! The Works cars, or they may have been replicas on Inglestadt plates, were there giving us a great show

[Emjay]

Well, took a look today. Spent over an hour with the car and made an offer . Wasn't accepted

Main points that put me off:

* Meeting arranged in a car park!
* Within 5 minutes some fella came along and started asking questions about the car, how much he loved them. Couldn't help getting suspicious at this point. Stooge perhaps?
* No paperwork available apart from V5. It's supposed to have a fairly well documented history!!
* Evidence of front end prang. Respray to front offside wing, front bumper and indicators out of alignment and evidence of some damage to bonnet. I would also suspect the drivers side wing has been replaced as part of the repair. For me the description of totally original goes out of the window at this point.
* Water ingress in front passenger footwell. Top carpets were dry but the felt soundproof stuff was soaking. Could not figure our where or why it was wet and this was the big alarm.

Good points were body is generally solid in all the key areas, engine was lovely, in fact couldn't fault the mecahnicals at all. Looks bloody lovely. HPI checks come back clear. The bodywork hangs pretty well irrespective of the apparent front repaire and no evidence of any rusting anywhere.

So I have made an offer. What do you think and what would you offer? Appreciate any comments, especially with regards to the water ingress as this was the real sticking point for me.

[MattNoVAT]

Water ingress in passenger well makes me think that there might be a leak from the heater matrix or is there a rust hole on the floorpan / bulkhead so when driving in the rain it just gets damp over time

Theres no sunroof so its not coming in from the drains!

Me personally,

I'd want to see all this extensive history before I parted with one pound! 

I'd wan't to go to the address on the V5, see & hear the car start from cold.

Totally original sounds like it should have read "Totally standard", there is a vast difference in my eyes.

As for price, difficult one that.... I see it has buy it now for £3550 and I'm sure I've seen it up for £3100.
In this climate if it were me selling... I'd have up for a fair bit less than that! 

Its got low mileage but that cannot be verified, low number of owners is good but its had a front end, so not so good... 2.5k tops, no more.

But without seeing the car in the flesh its all academic really.

Sorry that things didn't go to plan 

[Emjay]

funnily enough that was my offer which was rejected.

Appreciate the advice Matt many thanks.

[HFStuart]

Almost nothing there would put me off except A) Meeting in a car park - why would a 43 year old university lecturer do that and B) No paperwork - the E-Bay advert makes specific reference to it  - so where is it.

Were you offered any excuses for the paperwork ?

Stuart

[MattNoVAT]

I see from Ebay he's had  offers ranging from £850 to £2500 - to be honest, I think 2.5k is as much as he'll be offered. I'd take that once the paperwork and mileage were verified if it were me. But it ain't!

And like Stuart, not much puts me off about the car, the front end "action" it may have had can easily be resolved.  But, when I sold my first Hawk the paperwork and bills etc were something that every potential buyer got to see at the start, honesty is the best policy methinks and being up front counts for a lot. (One of the few times my nickname ever becomes a bit of a potential issue though is when I sell one of my Italian cars - I'm sure you can work out why!)

Odd thing is when I first looked at this car on my work laptop it was up for auction with a buy it now price of £3550, I checked the cache on my laptop for this, and on the first advert/auction, it said 2 owners, now it says its had 5. It could have just been a genuine mistake, I doubled checked this because I didn't want to mistake Number of doors with Number of owners.  (Coz I'm old  )

[Emjay]

V5 says 5 owners and HPI check says the same. HPI check is clear. On a personal level the guy is fairly genuine if forgetful. He does check out at Manchester university too.

I think he is selling something which he clearly hasn't got. Overall the car isn't neccessarilly putting me off but the asking price is, given that I would want to do a proper job on the front end and sort out a potential/mysterious water problem. This is really is driving the price down.

Oh and I did have to laugh when he said " I could keep it for a year and it will be worth £6 thousand". If I knew that was the case and I was selling I simply wouldn't. Thats better than any bank will offer you. Anyway he's had my final offer. Would be a shame if he just left it to an ebayer speculator has I did have some plans to get her up to a really good spec and do some shows in the summer.  Oh well 

Oh and interesting about the ebay offers as he was claiming he had been offerred £3200 via ebay just before I emailed him!!

[MattNoVAT]

To be honest it sounds like he is going to be very disappointed - six grand !!       

Here is the Ebay list of offers - now I know I'm old, but my eyesight isn't that bad that I miss an offer of £3200

 
 n***a ( 38)  £2,100.00 Declined 19-Jan-09 19:57:58 GMT 
 
 
 n***a ( 38)  £1,750.00 Declined 19-Jan-09 19:50:14 GMT 
 
 
 s***1 ( 13)  £2,500.00 Declined 19-Jan-09 16:50:54 GMT 
 
 
 s***1 ( 13)  £2,000.00 Declined 19-Jan-09 16:11:36 GMT 
 
 
 r***r ( 4 )  £1,207.00 Declined 19-Jan-09 00:10:50 GMT 
 
 
 l***1 ( 7 )  £2,250.00 Declined 18-Jan-09 21:13:23 GMT 
 
 
 r***r ( 4 )  £1,010.00 Declined 17-Jan-09 16:32:24 GMT 
 
 
 r***r ( 4 )  £850.00 Declined 14-Jan-09 23:51:03 GMT 
 
 
 l***1 ( 7 )  £2,000.00 Declined 13-Jan-09 23:24:50 GMT 
 
 

And the number of owners did change too:

Manufacturer:  Lancia   Colour:  Blue   
Model:  Beta   Engine Size:  1,600 cc   
Type:  Coupe   Power:  100   
Mileage:  44000   Seats:  4   
Doors:  2   MOT Expiry:  May 2009   
Reg. Date:  05 May 1978   Drive Side:  Right-hand drive   
   Road Tax:  Mar 2009   
Previous Owners:  2   Exterior:  --   
Transmission:  Manual   V5 Document:  Present   
Fuel:  Petrol   Manufacturer's Warranty:  --   
Service History:  Yes   In-Car Audio:  --   
Safety Features:  --   Interior/Comfort Options:  -- 

 

[redbenson111]

I see that he has re-listed it at the increased price of £3,900 because of 'under valuation'.

You have to give him credit for trying!

[redbenson111]

It's good to see that we get a response to one of these posts as it is important to know what a serious seller is getting for a quality car these days.

I have what I consider to be a very good spyder which , due to circumstances, I might have to sell in the near future, but I cannot rely on ebay, parkers, glass' or anyone else for a guide as to what it is worth.

I know that a car is worth what someone is prepared to pay but what we don't need is someone advertising a car at an increased price because of an assumed initial 'under valuation'.

I notice that your membership is very recent, as is mine, but I was also registered under the old Betaboyz site. Could it be that your reply is in response to some other email communication?

All we need is some transparency in the sale of our cars. We are all delighted to see the value of our pride and joy increase but we also need to be aware of any bu****t which is being pased around.

[HFStuart]

I didn't bring the very good history and paperwork along as I wanted to actually check my potential buyer out first - this opportunity to view was NOT a certain sale to him - Im in no rush at all - by any means - if i liked the chap and his offer - suitability for the car then he may have got a second look and seen the documentation.

and my documentation and history stays home safe too till a deal is done

Mac,

That makes no sense whatsoever. It just wastes the time of the person comming to view and stops them making a well judged offer. It also sounds really arrogant especially when it's a car you 'have' to sell.

I can understand you wanting to put your side of the story but your post is crass and patronising. Why you'd want to comment on your salary is beyond me and Chris could say the car is gold plated but it's value is still only what someone is willing to pay for it.

That said, good luck selling it  - it looks like a really good example. You're right in that one selling for a good price will do the value of our no harm at all but you can't judge it's value by comparing it with Alfa spider's - they're simply a more sought after car. Generally only a pretty dedicated Lancisti is even going to know what a S1 Beta is.


Stuart.

[hutch6610]

Hey Mack - hate to say this but "Thou protesteth too much"
You seem to have got up a few peoples noses - HF Stuart and redbenson111.

As for Alfa spiders - you know full well they always sell for more money than a Beta and that's a fact! rarity has nothing to do with value.

99.9% of Lancisti would not buy a Beta ..... they consider a Fulvia the last real Lancia - anything after is a Fiat with a Lancia badge.
A friend of mine has a Fiat 124CC coupe that was at the Alexandra Palace classic car show a few years ago - far, far, far  rarer than a Beta coupe but still only worth about £5000 if your lucky and its as good if not better than your coupe. 

Couldn't sell it for £3550 "buy it now" so you will definitely get £3900!!!!!!

You also sound like a bit of a professional wheeler dealer - "you can come to my home when Ive sussed you out"
I suppose i would join a BetaBoyz if i wanted to sell a car on eBay for top Dollar also.

Anybody remember that blue B reg HPE ie on Fleabay ? about eighteen months ago.
Now belongs to an acquaintance of mine in North London, Chris B told him to insure it for £3000 because its a nice one ................. What a joke, it just looks good to the untrained eye.

Horrible lashed over paint work (complete with DA sanding marks, sink marks and rust now coming through) the arches don't have the flat edge to them, wrong steering wheel, old style window switches, wrong tyre profiles, drivers door skinned horribly (nice and ripely) seats don't move back properly so only Toulouse-Lautrec can drive it.

Carburettor petrol tank with the sender unit stuck on with what looks like Tiger Seal and a few self tapping bolts oh and i love the way the drivers side wing has not been fitted properly and so rubs the drivers door.
Sills (replaced) have no drain holes underneath where they join the floor so water cannot drain out from the sun roof but "luckily" the drain pipes are melted at the bottom from the welding so instead leaks over the driver and the front passenger!

"so ...  maybe i will publish his evaluation of the car and condition soon and you can put that newbees report in the bin" .... Knock your self out mate.

I personally would not believe the report unless i see the car in person and can verify it!

[MattNoVAT]

Hi Mac,

Firstly, I really do not see what relevance peoples salary, whether they are based in the North or South, has to do with selling a car of any marque. I would agree with the other posts, your comments/approach do come across as arrogant and a tad paranoid.  (North/South divide, Salary envy, People "Eying up" your house and your wife). This is a forum focussed on the Lancia Beta and not really the place for perpetuating geographical stereo-typing.

I was driving my first Beta a 1978 Mk 1 1600 Coupe in 1987, having owned 6 Betas, a Prisma, Delta 1.5, 1600GT, HF Turbo (carb), 3 x HF4WD's, 3 x Integrale 8v, a 16v and an Evo 2, a Dedra Integrale, a Thema Turbo Phase 3 and a Hawk Stratos, I too know my Lancias reasonably well... but no-one was questioning that.  We were discussing the merits of the car, its value for money and the likelihood of selling it at the asking price in this fiscal climate.

As far as your car being undervalued, I could get a valuation on my Beta Coupe from my mum stating that its worth £100,000 but the valuation would effectively be a nonsense, because any person can say anything they wish, even on paper.  Now if the valuation came from Coys or Bonhams then that would be an entirely different matter. The reality is however that your valuation is not from the likes of Coys or Bonhams. It sounds more like its the price you think its worth or what the car owes you. There is a vast difference....thats just my humble opinion.

I'm a little confused that if you had offers of £3200 (or more) for your car why was it still up for auction at £3100, anyone could just come along and buy it at £3100 and you are legally obliged to sell it to them, as Ebay auctions are a legally binding contracts.   If you want to "suss" out potential buyers why put the car on a public auction which provides more or less buyer anonymity.  An Ebay buyer could live in a high rise council flat in Leeds or London for all you know, so this business of only selling to someone who is going to garage the car etc is fundamentally flawed.

If the car is of the quality that you purport then surely it would warrant being advertised through this forum, Viva Lancia, Auto-Italia or any of the Classic car magazines (It may well be).  Ebay is a terrible place for selling cars because, as you have experienced the £850 offer, you suffer the wasters who want a Bugatti Veyron for £8.50! But then again, it is cheap to put a car up for sale on Ebay.

Now, all that said I wish you the very best in selling your car and I hope that you achieve the price you want, find the right sort of buyer who will treat the car in the manner in which you would want.

I have owned my current Beta Coupe for the past 21+ years and no amount of money would part us.

I'll look forward to maybe seeing the car in the flesh at one of the Italian classic car shows - who ever the owner may be?

Regards,


PS: If someone is going to be paying a premium price for a 30 year old then you have to expect them to go through it with a fine tooth comb or have it submitted for full inspection.

[Emjay]

Wow, go a way for a few days, come back and what have I started.

To put some more information on the table and particularly for Mac.

I have no reason to misrepresent the car nor deface it's value. I would hope the post is a fair and accurate reflection of how I saw the car and my experience with the buyer. I can't come to your house to view because you don't trust me?. Sure I can understand the point. But the same goes for me as the seller, a car park meet with someone I don't know from Adam, no paperwork and some fella who comes along asking some very pertinent questions??. As always my adage is buyer beware I am not prepared to be suckered in. You can't have it both ways my friend !!!

Just to help along your understanding from a buyers perspective please take a moment to read this. There are plenty of other articles on the web.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/CARS/buying/buy_a_used_car.jsp

The opinions of the car posted here are my opinions. However having 20 years plus of car buying experience I know what I am looking for espescially in terms of accident damage and body fit. Just because the HPI report says it has not been written off or claimed against does not mean it hasn't had a knock in its life. I can tell something is not right just by looking at the photo's (front indicators and bumper). The rest of what I saw in the flesh simply backs it up. Oh and don't worry the HPI check I gave you you can have for free so hardly a wasted meet on your part. And sadly water in the footwell is almost instant no no for me and I explained this to you as soon as I found it.

Overall and as I have posted previously the car is a very tidy proposition for someone. To clarify the offer of 2500 was my initial offer and I did up the price to 2800 but much against my better judgment. Thankfully I thought better of it and walked away.

You know, with the correct paperwork in place, a polish and spruce up this car could realise closer to the 3000 you are looking for.

[Emjay]

oh and finally while we are talking about reputations and the right of reply here's my final take on the matter. And just remember what your final advice to me was???...if I wasn't sure on the price or the water issue go and ask some of the experts on the forums...well as you can see I did!

   

and also I had to keep an eye on my 'buyer' who was dismantling my rear light cluster !

I seem to remember being told to pull up the carpets and have a good look. So I did. I would have done anyway !! Checking out the boot area I removed the nearside  rear light cluster and didn't put it back properly first time around. Was pointed out and rectified ie I put it back properly

The car is very very genuine and sound  - agreed, never said otherwise
no front ends ! disagree
and no rot thank you very much -  Agreed, never said otherwise, go back and read the posts !  
yes the front bumper is a few cms out of line but thats no front end - so they just bend with time perhaps or warp in strong sunlight??
maybe had a new wing in the 80s its possble - it has, stop being in denial about it, it's been done very well but the evidence in the final finish is clear
but if so its a Lancia wing  - and you can prove this?   
and the damp underfelt is nothing at all to worry about - some rain must have got in and under it when I drove it last month in torrential rain for two hours to berwick and back - Just what I want to pay a premium price for, a car with a very very wet floor

I have stripped the carpet back and there is nothing but hard shiny metal and ziebart - solid -  here she is - I never did recieve the photo's you said you would send to put my mind at rest
( that newbees ebay link above is defunct /and at the old asking price ) - what exactly is the asking price?? seems to change very time I see it advertised. In fact in car and classic it was carrying to prices in the same advert (3100 and 3200)
number of prev owners was a genuine typo its 5 but only 2 really - both long term - according to paperwork - No... according to the paperwork it's 5!!! The HPI check I provided to you say's so!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=130284984914

Now todays photographs evidence the car is A1 -  now loaded up on the advert -
As already stated don't buy or value on photographic evidence, all that does is solicit interest. Good look with ebay.

so ...  maybe i will publish his evaluation of the car and condition soon and you can put that newbees report in the bin - please publish it, this I would love to see

so less banter eh lads about peoples reputations and the value of their cars - as you never know whos reading it eh or who they are !   - Mac...you create the perception of your reputation no one else. And just who may be reading this?