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Author Topic: just about given up....  (Read 11759 times)
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raz1966
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« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2012, 09:34:18 PM »

the more i think about it i think it might be the return to the tank blocked, i will check that after work tomorrow
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rachaeljf
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« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2012, 10:34:11 PM »

Sorry I missed that you had a mechanical pump. I guess it's possible that with the return line blocked the pump is pressurising and "pumping up" the fuel hose to the carb, so that even when stopped the residual pressure is forcing fuel into the chokes. Otherwise fuel cannot simply fill up the chokes with the engine not running.
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thecolonel
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« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2012, 11:20:24 PM »

Could also be pressurized fuel tank causing
Fuel to be pushed back down the return line.
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betaveloce
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« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2012, 03:49:51 PM »

Could also be pressurized fuel tank causing
Fuel to be pushed back down the return line.


I had exactly this problem with my Spider

check how the car works with the fuel filler cap removed!
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Beta Coupé 1.8 '74
Beta Spider 1.6 '80
Beta HPE 2.0 i.e. '82
Delta Integrale 8V '88
Ypsilon 1.4 16V '09
raz1966
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« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2012, 02:12:48 PM »

compression is 175 psi on each cylinder which  think is ok, i have cleared the return line and it seems to be running a bit better, it seems to rumble a bit as you rev it , is that mains or big ends? it has good oil pressure . should i worry?
it still running rich but i have ordered a colourtune kit and i am going to double check the ignition timing.
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WestonE
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« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2012, 03:16:22 PM »

The compression number is fine particularly if it is even across the cylinders i.e. not more than 10% variance. Low rumble is unfortunately likely to be main bearings. Use a long handled screwdriver one end on sump one end to ear to listen to check. You might just be able to change the shells and get away with it. All that fuel in the oil will be the cause.

Eric
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thecolonel
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« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2012, 04:00:34 PM »

Hope you chucked all the fuel contaminated oil away
and replaced filter etc.
If not do it straight away.
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raz1966
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« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2012, 08:23:04 PM »

its got new oil and filter, can i do the shells with the engine still in?
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HFStuart
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« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2012, 10:35:53 PM »

Not the mains no, big ends yes.
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raz1966
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« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2012, 10:50:11 PM »

which is it more likely to be? i may leave it and rebuilt the engine in a year or so
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HFStuart
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« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2012, 11:13:19 PM »

Low rumble is probably mains, knocking under load or at 2-3000rpm would be big ends.

The mains will most likely go on for some time. So long as you have decent oil pressure and the rumbling isn't too bad they will probably be OK to leave for a while.
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raz1966
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« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2012, 05:58:57 PM »

i think its the big ends.
its still running rough, what ever i do it seems to be running rich, sometimes it will run ok and all of a sudden it will back fire  and the run rough again.
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raz1966
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« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2012, 08:05:13 PM »

if i look down the carb wih the air filter off i can see droplets of petrol coming out of the small pipe that connects to the accelerator pump, it only comes out as i blip the throttle, i know the accelerator pump puts fuel in to the engine as you floor it but how much should come out? i have got it to run up to the red line now and it seems to run better at high revs when it is on the second choke. also roughly how many turns out  should the screw near the manifold be?
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Neil-yaj396
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« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2012, 07:59:49 PM »

Rumbling can be the water pump bearings rather than the engine bearings. The Beta's bodyshell tends to transmit all sorts of strange sounds!
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wheelies
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« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2012, 05:42:21 PM »

Hi Raz
Have you had the distributor out of the casing?
If so is it out 180 degrees?
You can get the engine to run but it will sound like a bag of hammers. You end up retarding the ignition so far thet it will try and fire on another cylinder.
I would suggest you go back to Erics suggestion and follow the timing through from scratch.
Set timing marks to TDC
Remove spark plugs and find the piston nearesst TDC, using a srewdriver rest the end on top of the piston you think is the highest.  Move the piston ever so carefully by putting a spanner on the timing pulley. Don't get the screwdriver jammed between the top of the piston and head. Move the piston backwards and forwards until you are satisfied it's at TDC.
Take cam cover off to ensure you are timing on the right piston, both valves should be closed as you near tdc, then the exhaust valve will start to open.
Check which terminal the rotar arm is pointing at in the distributor, it should be the one you have at TDC
Once you have the engine running, fine tune it with a strobe.
Good luck

Think of it as a game or a crossword, leave it and go back to it another night. You will win in the end.


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raz1966
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« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2012, 08:01:16 PM »

its timed correctly, i have checked and re-checked
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raz1966
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« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2012, 08:07:15 PM »

it runs ok above 3000rpm, below that it is rough and occasionally back fires
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andybeta
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« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2012, 11:43:34 PM »

Hi,

I am new to this thread. Others have been suggesting good back to basics fault finding advice.

First is this an engine you don't know it's provenance? Has it previously run well? If you have serviced something you might have unknowingly changed it eg timing or if you have changed the cam belt - one tooth out. If you can say 100% that all the basics are as they should be then I would think about the engine experiencing over fueling which as you describe will tend to happen at low revs. The carb can only take max 3.5 psi of fuel otherwise it will flood due to over fueling. At higher revs it might be able to handle the extra fuel as the second carb opens but unlikely at low revs. You do say the engine is running very rich and back firing plus you can see the float chamber filling. As previously suggested, by EW I think, fit an in-line Fuel King pressure regulator you can then control the fuel pressure to the carb very easily. You might as well replace the fuel lines if they are perished in any way and fit a new fuel filter.

The other thing which can cause back firing is a very blocked sump breather hose.

Have you pointed your finger at the distributor low tension circuit pick up yet as this is can fail causing really really rough running, the engine won't rev above about 3-3.5k rpm? Failed on mine. Was replaced. Problem solved.

HTH.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2012, 11:49:29 PM by andybeta » Logged
raz1966
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« Reply #38 on: February 27, 2012, 06:31:17 PM »

engine is low milage (60000) but has not run for 10 years, dizzy is new, i have not unblocked the breather, how do i do it?
i dont want to fit anything to the car that is not original
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raz1966
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« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2012, 08:03:51 PM »

i am still unsure about setting the ignition timing, i know what mark to use but in the instructions i have (translated from italian) it says strobe it at 3000 rpm. i have been told to do it 1000 rpm , does it make ant difference? i am checking it with the vaccum pipe disconnected. any one know the correct way?
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