Lancia Beta Forum

I’ve had the good fortune to acquire another restoration project. The timing was perfect seeing as the Berlina is now finished.
It’s going to be a complete body, engine and interior restoration with no timeframe so that I can enjoy the process.
Both my previous restorations had a hurry up point along the way due to loosing workshop/storage space. This  time it is different as I now have my own workshop at home.
I’m not very good at recording and posting progress of all the work that we know goes into such a project, but I will try my best to post more.

Ian

There’s a bit to do here but thankfully it seems complete, original and as far as I can tell from spinning it by hand, it’s got a smooth supercharger.

It’s going to need a bit more than a blow with an air-line.

Lovely acquisition Ian!
Doesn't look too bad from the pics.

All the best with it,

Nigel

PM sent.

You think?

I can just imagine the creative words on Ebay!

Looks like a good starting point.

Peter

Nice project. You end up with a sought after Beta to complete your set.

You will probably have it finished before my engine runs the rate I am going at.

Eric   

Nigel and Peter you are very right, the shell has a few repairs to address but they are minor for a 38 y.o Beta.
I didn’t really need another project but this was to good to pass and a HPE really is the everyday all-rounder in the Beta range.
I know you’re going to have that running long before me Eric. I have to go back to full time employment in October 😢
Not sure I’m ready for it tbh

With the excitement of a puppy and a new sofa to chew I had to get going. So I chose the highly visible hole in the rear quarter panel to practice some fabrication and right way up welding. I hate upside down welding. In fact I’m convinced my receding hairline is all down to welding burns and nothing to do with ageing.

Hole be gone

Next stop, rear wheel arch

Nice work. This working every day thing is really slowing me down!

I retired last July, and I haven't noticed any significant speeding up of my Beta restoration/refurb since... I now wonder how I ever had time for work...

But Ian, that looks a cracker of a purchase. I owned an HPE in the early 80s and it was a wonderfully versatile workhorse. Plus yours has added VX, so even better.

Yes I’m hoping that by the time I have this finished it will be ‘Historic status’ so that I can daily it to work in east London. The fuel consumption of a VX is something of a concern but at least it will be free road tax (instead of the current £240 p.a)
Meantime the Berlina is the daily London commuter.

Bit slow on the progress posts but work has been trickling along.
Once I started on the rear arch, it quickly became obvious that I needed to include all the other rot that linked to it. So it became inner and outer sill repairs and replacement as well as wheel arch lower corners. I had a good s/h arch that came with the car but had to fabricate the lower sections.

Also whilst the outer sill was cut away it seemed a good time to tackle the usual lower rear corner door shut water trap. I’m sure most of you know that this is always much worse than the small bubbles of rust indicate. This is because it is more than one skin and the water gets in between. You know the rest!
I fabricated this from a couple of pieces of sheet, shaped joined and ground.

Whilst repairing the inner sill sections I chose to add a few extra fillets of metal running from the inner sill (carpet side) through the central sill and connecting to the outer sill. The particular areas of note where the box section that the front seats sit on, the jacking point and the bottom of the A-pillar. This is to improve chassis stiffness and is very apparent now when jacking the car on the middle jack point This will be repeated on the other side.

Looks absolutely superb now! Have you taken the C pillar plastic trim off yet? One of my VX HPE's was completely rotted through there...

Then a rather messy job of taking the rear quarter, door shut and sill back to bare metal with a poly strip wheel on the angle grinder, followed by 160 grit hand sand it was ready for 2k etch primer and high build 2k primer to finish.

Next stop, n/s door.

😛 you mean this area?
Yes I cut it all out and re-fabbed that too.
There was some repairs around the rear light unit as well. All new metal now.
It’s easy to forget how many repairs you do if you forget to take pictures. And I regularly forget the pictures. 🙄

That's it - mine was gone from front to back when the poor thing got scrapped... Today it might have been considered saveable but not in 1990...

Yes it’s a shame some of the cars we let go. I remember being ‘given’ a gold series II facelift because it failed the mot on a little rust and some poor brakes. “I broke it!!” Criminal. And I still remember thinking every piece I took from the car, ‘why am I breaking this?’
At least one of the wings has made it onto this car.

N/s door was quite good really. Had the usual rot inside and out due to the mandatory water ingress from the quarter light mounted mirror assembly. But the lower areas of the door seem to be well preserved presumably due to lots of cavity wax.
So a few little repairs and it’s a good door.
Bare metal and etch/filler primer as before. This is to be the process for the whole car.

I’m starting to feel as though I’m getting somewhere.

Prime time

Another panel ready

The inside always looks terrible but it’s not really as bad as it looks.

My first Beta was a 1978 HPE, one owner for it's first 3 years, sat in a heated showroom for the next 3 before I got it in 1984. Zeibarted from new it was mint until the day it died courtesy of an errant trucker. I did have a minor bump in it that needed a front end and it got treated to a full respray. The ONLY rot we found was on the top of the inner door panel just like this. Just treated it and left it with a drain route. I wish I;d kept that one to this day. All I have left is the number plate transferred to every subsequent daily I've had since.

Some good news under the front arches. No repairs necessary. Just a quick prep to some very minor surface rust and then some more zinc primer and body Shultz which will get a final coat of Dinitrol once everything is finally assembled. All box sections are having extra access holes drilled into them for annual Dinitrol top ups.
Quite pleased to see the front end in such good condition.

That is one of the big differences between having and not having wing liners.

Peter

Hi Peter

My thoughts exactly

Eric

Progress has been a bit slow lately due to a flu/virus thing flooring me for nearly 4 weeks which led seemlessly into covid.
With a few more simple panels repaired and prepped I’m now about 3/4 of the way around.

Next area of attack will be the roof and windscreen surround. There are a few holes to repair at the bottom of the windscreen and a small hole in the n/s top corner. The sunroof was a nightmare to get out as it had previously been fitted with one wrong slider which prevented the roof from dropping and sliding. God knows how they managed to get it in but it left some panel straightening to do after removal.

I might be a bit slow to learn some tricks n tips but I have just found the ‘copper plate under a pin hole to weld’ trick. You all know this right? I didn’t and can’t believe how simple it is.
If you need to weld a small pin hole in a panel, you simply hold a piece of copper plate under the pin hole and spot weld/fill the pin hole. The copper doesn’t take the weld and holds the weld so it can flow into the hole. Quick grind and prep and it’s gone. Bit annoyed I’ve been swearing at ever expanding pin holes for 20 years.

Great Work Ian

And sorry but I did know about the Brass/ Copper plate under a Pin hole thing I think from a teach yourself to weld video over 20 years ago.

I will how creep off smugly for about 10 minutes before my next major cock up brings me back down to earth!

Cheers

Eric

Concur with Eric, great work. At some time in the future, i've got some
rust on the pax door and both rear window apertures to deal with.

I see on your garage wall you have some Lancia cards in frames. I have a similar
looking frame which I picked up from a flea market in Johannesburg many years ago.

Amazing work Ian, so pleased Rob's HPE found the right owner  :)
I sent the previous owner a link to this, and he's so absolutely chuffed the car's being restored.
Cheers
Tony





 

Hi

I also have the cards in frame, bought on Ebay about 10 years ago. I never realised they were a production item!

Car is looking great, sorry to hear about the illness, I seem to have had one virus per month this year including Covid, so hoping we both have a clear April….

Peter

Lol cheers Eric, when I discovered the copper plate trick I knew it must have been an old practice that passed me by.

Peter/Nigel, the picture cards in the frame seem to be a popular thing a few years back. My sister gave them to me a few months back when she found them clearing the loft for her house move. Funny how we follow similar likes.

Today I’ve just got my first COVID negative test so I’m looking forward to getting back to full speed in the garage once I get home. Currently having a breather in Southern Italy and enjoying buzzing around in the Lancia Ypsilon hire car.

Thanks Tony, I hope to do the car justice in its restoration and the end goal is for it to be my daily’ish runaround. Currently the Berlina is doing a good job in that role so I’m not sure what will happen when the HPE is finished albeit that’s a year or two away.

Right it’s beer o’clock here, Moretti time.

Moretti time is over and now back in Blighty, I was keen to get the windscreen panel fixed and the roof stripped and primed seeing as it’s the largest area on the car. A reasonable amount of repairs were needed around the windscreen panel but minimal enough to justify repair rather than replacement.
I just kept finding small repairs which made it feel never ending but in the end it got prepped.

As to be expected the scuttle was the worst area with gravity working it’s magic.

A relief to get this large area repaired, bare metalled, etch primed and finally primed.
One new discovery for me was that the factory sunroof has a pair of stainless steel runners welded into the roof where the sliding roof guides rub. At least that’s what my eyes tell me judging from the different colour in the bare metal.
This would explain why that part of the roof never rusts when the paint is rubbed away.
Never given it a thought before as I’d never bare metalled a Beta before.

Every day”s a school day!

Fantastic progress and that curved corner is a high class piece of fabrication work. I have lost all progress in getting my house on the market.

Eric

Thanks Eric but I can’t take credit for the corner piece fabrication as I cut it from a donor car.

Are you moving to a nice garage with a house attached?

Envious! Funny seeing how closely some of the repairs match those from my past vx hpe.

I have found my perfect house, nice area, nice house, 2 double garages and a big driveway. However, it's not for sale and if it were I would hazard a guess it would be close to £1.5m.. Still, if I ever win the lottery..

Progress slowed a little recently due to overdue jobs on the house that really needed addressing before winter. A new roof on the garage and new radiators in the house to save on energy bills had to take priority. Oh and a fortnight in the south of Italy for a little R&R.
But I’ve got back to the HPE focusing on finishing the welding to the off side sill and rear quarter panel.
There were a couple of repairs to the front and rear of the sill that I didn’t like the look of so I took the decision to cut the entire sill off and repair and strengthen as I did on the near side. If I didn’t do this I would never know what I might of missed. And this would be a shortcut that would play on my mind.

As I turned out, it wasn’t to bad at all really. There were a few repairs to do inside and the rear end of the sill/inner arch section was a bit messy but quite good considering.

A couple of straightforward repairs to the inside of the rear end of the sill.  Very minimal I’d say.

Some cleaning up and minor repairs with extra cross bracing from inner to outer sill for strengthening to improve shell stiffness.

Then onto the off side rear arch. Several areas needed attention as you would expect, but I thought local repairs were all that were needed rather than cutting the whole arch out like the near side required.

Then onto the spare wheel well and lower rear quarter. This was a bit more involved as it required work inside and out to remove some previous repairs that once again I was not prepared to accept. I had a donor section to fit here but that in itself also needed some repairs. But it was a useful piece to start from because it is a complicated area that needed a lot removed.

The donor piece needed repairing on the leading edge and wheel arch lip. When I remake any wheel arch lips, I always do it with stainless. It’s probably a bit unnecessary as other areas nearby will eventually succumb to corrosion but at least I know the repairs will never fail in my lifetime. But I have a free supply of scrap stainless so I put it to use.

Once in place it was meant that the off side of the car was complete of welding repairs.

New Betaboyz outer sill welded on and it’s prime time.
From bare metal to etch primer to high build 2K.

The last remaining exterior repairs are the rear panel and tailgate.

Hi Ian

Impressive and rapid work well done.

Eric

Yep, very impressive, hopefully my bodywork guy will be as thorough….

Peter

Concurring with the others, nice work.

Two things Ian, do you need to use a special weld wire to
bond the dissimilar properties of the steels?
And are you using Mig or Tig?

Nigel

Hi Nigel,
I only have a simple 130amp Snap-on (read Cerbora) mig.
I’ve tried using stainless wire with Argoshield gas but didn’t have the skill to make it work very well. So I experimented with regular mig wire and CO2. It welds very easily in joining both mild steel to stainless and stainless to stainless. Obviously the welds are only mild steel and therefore they will rust if left untreated.
But the welds seem strong and reliable.
The complete exhaust from manifold back on my VX coupe is stainless with mild steel mig work (untreated) and it’s been faultless to date. Only a light dusting of surface rust on the welds. I have also made exhausts like this on friends cars and again they have been reliable for over 15 years.

It’s not the most professional way of welding compared to back purging tig but it’s a safe/reliable and cheap option if you diy.  Oh, and very rewarding.

p.s. below is my VX rear section still going strong.

Seeing as the car is now in primer albeit the final corrections and alignment are still to do, I thought I’d take a break from bodywork and get on with the last of the chassis repairs.
Not an ideal time of the year to be rolling around on a cold concrete floor but it ain’t gonna fix itself.
The rear turrets have seen a number of repairs over the years which is to be expected but the style of these repairs is new to me. At a guess I’d say Picasso was an inspiration.

This is going to be a simple job of cutting out the rough area and replacing. Easy to access and enjoyable.
The interesting thing I have noticed on all HPE and coupes (haven’t checked my Berlina but expect the same) is the area circled. The gap between the turret and the inner panel is the rear quarter and it is not joined. They come like this from the factory and the gap is hidden with seam sealer. Behind the panel is a nice strengthening brace. I’m surprised the join wasn’t made to improve the structural integrity. Maybe it was too time consuming to achieve in mass production. Anyway, it will be joined now.

This will need a little more work to correct. I hope I can do better.

Hi Ian

On mine in this area it was a large L shape new plate on the insides and a new large flat plate outside both of thicker gauge. Obviously the water trap section and previous bodges were cut out and thrown away.

They all go there!

Cheers

Eric

Hi Eric,
Yes that sounds like the best way to go. The HPE is a more open structure than a coupe due to the lack of a parcel shelf, so I think it would benefit a lot from any strengthening mods.
I was pleased to see the door shut didn’t move a single millimetre when I jacked the car at the rear of the sill. I think that’s an indication the internal sill mods I put in place are a successful upgrade.

Whilst carrying out the obvious repairs it became apparent that the factory spot welding wasn’t really up to spec. There are many theories on spot weld spacing due to factors such as how many sheets of metal, what guage metal etc., but none of the theories seemed to support the random and very wide spacing in most areas of this car. So I have gone all around it drilling and plug welding the missing spots. I’ve lost count how many so far but I think it’s now in triple digits.
It will all be invisible once it’s painted and worthwhile I think.

The circles are what I deem to be missing or sloppy spot welding. Some of the spot to spot weld spacing was approaching 100mm so I’ve drilled through 2 of the 3 sheets ready to plug weld and dress flat.
Maybe Giuseppe had a fag in one hand on a Friday afternoon.

It’s taken a bit of work but finally I think I can say the welding repairs to the bodywork and chassis are complete. I have plans for a number of modifications to improve chassis stiffness and integrity and maybe I will find a few more repairs when the drivetrain assembly is dropped out. But as far as I can see, the ‘repairs inside and out are finished.
The last repairs to the rear strut areas were a straightforward case of removing the poorly actioned previous repairs, cutting back to clean metal and double skin repairs to a better spec than factory.
Most of the previous repairs were removed with a pair of pliers and a screwdriver. A bit worrying when you consider we are allowed to run cars without an MOT once they achieve ‘Historic status’.

Hi Ian

Out of interest what mods are you making as we are just starting the restoration of the HPE and always interested in improving what is probably not such a stiff chassis?

Peter

Cut back to clean metal and first skins in place. All skins have been double seem welded inside and out and spot welded together in the middle of the new panels. Maybe a bit OTT but it floats my boat.

Hi Peter,
Some of the mods are already here such as the extra spot welds that were not very well spaced from factory, and the small fillets joining panels hiding behind the rear strut towers. There is a box section in that area that has not been properly utilised IMO. (The fillets are in the next pictures to post) These gaps were factory hidden behind seam sealer.

I also plan on making an easily removable rear strut ‘K’-brace as the HPE obviously lacks a rear shelf for cross bracing. I have purchased some threaded handles which are used for various machine clamping applications. This K-brace will likely be my next job so I’ll post this as I go. It will join rear turrets, floor and the center of the rear suspension cross member. The cross member will be removed and the open box design closed-in with a fourth side, like the Deltas and Themas if my memory serves me?
Other strengthening will focus around the front end, under the wheel arches and along the chassis rails. Modern cars seem to have focused quite a lot in these areas for good reason.

These subtle fillets welded into the rear turret area made an obvious stiffness improvement noticeable from just climbing in and out of the car during the repair work. And I only weigh 73kg!

I never really understood the strange rectangular pressed shape in the inner arch where the rubber brake hoses meet the rigid brake lines with a bracket. It looks like a poor attempt to add a little rigidity bit in turn created a poor water trap that has rotted just about every Beta I’ve been under. So my repair got rid of the water trap and I put the rigidity in with a ribbed (for extra pleasure) inner panel similar to the original ribbed effort the factory used on the upper area of the strut tower. Again seem welded and spot welded to keep the news skins together.

Final touches are decent quality PU seem sealer to all welds inside and out, a tidy up and primed ready for final painting.

Hi Ian

Thanks, I can see the rear strut tower mods and look forward to seeing your other mods which I will discuss with my bodywork guy as it will most likely be a small amount of extra work to the work he currently has to do. Nigel commented to me only recently that there was a noticeable difference in rigidity of the HPE compared to the Coupe.

Peter

Hi Peter,
Yes I completely agree with Nigel. I guess it’s a more open space without any parcel shelf so it will always flex more than a coupe. I’m also looking into a little mod under the boot floor. There’s already a stiffener just above the fuel tank but it’s not tied to the chassis rails 50mm away. I’m fairly sure that can be extended quite easily without fouling the tank.
Every little helps.

Hi Ian

Fantastic work as I have now come to expect. You are absolutely right about that water trap built into the rear turrets being the standard rot location for all Betas. It is not a surprise on the lack of rigidity of the HPE at the back when you look at the Coupe's X brace and the Spyder's brace and heavy gauge sheet steel addition. I believe the later Spyder is stiffer than the Coupe assuming it is not rust lightened! My modern BMW Estate Car (Touring in Marketing BS) has 2 chunks of steel that clip in place between the rear struts when the seats are not down. I think the tricky bit will be how do you keep the versatility when you want it and effective tight bracing the rest of the time. Pins and R Clips maybe with the brace flat on the boot floor when not being used?

Cheers

Eric    

Hi Eric,
Thanks for the compliments. This is the first complete restoration I’ve done with the workshop at my own home. So without time and travel constraints, I’m doing things the best I can and enjoying the restoration to the max whilst learning all the way.

I like your idea of storing the K-brace when not fitted, that hadn’t crossed my mind. I think I’ve got a secure way to clamp it into the structure whilst keeping it easy and quick to remove when loading up in Wickes car park. But the proof is always in the driving.

Looking forward to seeing you get stuck into your new workshop. It’s looks excellent.

Ian

Hi Ian

Thanks I am really looking forward to the days when I am using the garage and not organizing it and or adding new bits of kit. Off to B&Q tomorrow to have a whole stack of extra shelves cut so I can finally load the cupboards properly.

I have over 2.6 meter headroom with the annoying sectional doors gone so I am considering options for a ramp.

Cheers

Eric 

How about making an X brace with a bar across the top and a tube bottom?
If it could rotate about a pivot at the bottom and locate on a pin welded to the top mount (with rose joints perhaps?) it ought to give a bit more rigidity and be capable of folding down to lay on the boot floor when not needed?
Guy

Hi Guy,
My description of K brace is very poor. A better description would probably have been a ‘Y’ brace.
My intended brace will be a regular strut to strut brace across the top and triangulated down to a central point on the floor behind the seats (red section).
The floor in that location is flexible and serves no purpose but, the blue section will be under the floor and will bolt on top of the rear suspension cross member and provide a platform for the brace to bolt to.
The crossmember (yellow) as mentioned will be boxed in with sheet metal to increase its stiffness instead of its current flexy 3 sided construction.
Hopefully pulling all the points together to work together.

Any thoughts?

Cheers
Ian

I intend using 4 of these die-cast M10 thread clamping handles. They seem rugged enough to take a good nudge for tightening them up and they also have a lift-up ratchet to position them conveniently.

Hi Ian, if the floor is weak in the middle then it'll flex with the loads transferred? Joining the floor to the suspension crossmember will effectively create a new box section to stiffen it all up. I need to poke my head underneath the car to look at the crossmember. If my memory is correct the crossmember has two tubes through which the transverse arms are bolted front and rear? The arms being on the outside of the beam? In which case boxing it in should increase it's stiffness a bit. I think the trick will be making the new box from thick enough material and a tight enough fit between the floor and the top of the cross member so that any flex in the floor is eliminated.

My memory of the anatomy of the HPE is fuzzy in this area (despite having had 3 of them). I think the rear suspension crossmember is fixed with two bolts each side? If you could drill through the centre of the threaded hole into the cabin where would that appear? If it's between the struts I'd have thought replacing the captive thread with a threaded tube that's the depth of the box section, properly welded in, would give you an ideal fixing point for the base of a diagonal X braced frame to the top of the two towers which could be tied together where they cross?

I think that a cross brace would be significantly stronger than the Y you've proposed? But either is going to help rear end stiffness!

Guy

The rear brace and crossmember is done. After much thought I decided to go with my original idea. The more I looked the more an ‘X’ brace looked problematic. Whilst it might offer a little more structural stiffness it would have been difficult to make a mounting point on the n/s lower turret area. It’s a busy area with pipes, cables and fuel filler hose down to the tank. I couldn’t see a way to make an easily removable brace.

So I started by stripping the crossmember back to bare metal with a wire brush on an angle grinder. The finish was good but a broken wire planted itself in the tip of my nose and needed removing with pliers. Lesson learnt.

Then I fabricated the strengthening plates to make the crossmember a box section. This was very satisfying and something I’ve been meaning to do on my coupe for years.

Next up I made a pedestal to sit on top of the crossmember to give a mounting point for the strut brace above floor level. Once I had this assembled under the car I could start work on the strut brace Itself. First of all I needed some captive mounting points on the top of the turrets.

Then the final fabrication of the strut brace with an adjustable left and right hand thread for fine adjustment that will undoubtedly be needed each time it’s removed and refitted.
Once you tighten it in, the difference is very noticeable whilst sitting on axle stands at the rear of the sills. Without the brace, the turrets and the shell flex outwards when you put your body weight on the rear boot slam crossmember.
With it bolted in, the car see-saws the front end up in the air. Its solid.

The total weight of this installation was on my mind throughout as I don’t want a 1700kg modern car. So the various parts where measured with the Brace itself at 1.8kg, pedestal 450g, strut upper captive mounts 260g and plates for crossmember 350g. All up with fixings comes in around 3kg. I’m very happy with that.

Hi Ian

That looks oh so neat a solution. Any chance of making the removable section available to others….?

Peter

Hi Peter,
It’s not completely finished yet as I want to make some brackets to store the brace when it’s removed. Eric gave me this idea and I think it will be much better than chucking it in the back when you need the open space.
Making the brace for others has a few issues, there’s no point making it bolt into the floor without the pedestal underneath on the crossmember as the floor is a flimsy unsupported sheet. Also for me, I have limited time to make multiple copies as my full time job dictates, and I need my time getting this restoration done.
I like to share the progress on here for others to use if they wish.

But I do think just a single straight removable brace on the turrets will be a big improvement for any HPE. And these clamp handles are as quick and easy as can be.
Also I’ve got a few other little mods to do this week if the materials arrive which are aimed at adding more structural integrity for minimal weight. Every little helps.

Hi Ian

Beautifully executed. I was expecting a box section added under the floor between the turrets so your approach is an interesting alternative. I am fascinated to see the storage solution.

Keep up the good work.

Eric 

Equally impressed! I'd forgotten the issue at the base of the offside tower where the fuel lines and sender cables make modifications there a little more complex.
Guy

It feels like progress has been a bit slow but I guess the strengthening work to the interior and making a pair of non Lancia Recaro front seats fit was never going to be a 5 minute job.
I removed more seam sealer where the rear inner panels meet the sills to find more panels barely joined from the factory much the same as the rear turrets were. Once I found this, I decided to seam weld the whole interior.

Then the Recaro seats were 1.5cm narrower that the Lancia mounts so I thought it was an opportunity to take a problem and make it an upgrade by effectively making a brace across the car under the front seats.

Great work Ian.
That rear support is going to stiffen it up well.

Are there any downsides to seam welding?

Nigel

Thanks Nigel
I’m not aware of any real downsides apart from back ache and sore knees!
The weld probably adds around a kilo to the weight of the car. And there’s the obvious risk of heat damage and fire to components whilst doing the work, but to my knowledge it’s pretty much all positives.
Handling is better with reduced chassis flex which is effectively uncontrolled damping, a bit like worn out shock absorbers, sound damping should be better for much the same reason, ride quality and crash protection.
My next area to work on is from the bulkhead to front front turrets. I’m sure there’s a lot of improvements to be had there. But I don’t intend to do any strengthening forward of the front turrets. This will keep the crumple area at the front of the car untouched and improve everything else behind the front suspension.

I’ve not put this amount of work or detail in a chassis before as a roll-cage was the simple answer. This project is not for the track, I just want a nice road car.

Cheers
Ian

Ian,
One observation from my car: when jacking up the front end on
the subframe, the doors droop 5mm showing huge body flex!

Somewhere, I've seen 25mm steel tubing being welded inside the sills
front to back along with 2/3 internal support brackets, all invisible.
Can't find the pics these days, but I don't know where I saw them.

Nigel

Hi Nigel
Yes I think your door droop when jacked up on the subframe is normal if not ideal.
This is why I’m going to so much trouble to add strength wherever I can without too many externally visible changes.
When I replaced the outer sills I added internal cross bracing to both inner and outer sill boxes. There were also a number of metal pieces below the front door pillar that weren’t joined inside the sill. So I joined and boxed these whilst I was in there.
The work I’ve already done means the door alignment doesn’t move when I jack it up but the car interior is currently empty, so I don’t know if his will change when the interior weight is added.

My next project is to add significant bracing around the bulkhead and down to the subframe mounting rear bolt points.

Ian

I have been busy with various chassis improvements which I will post soon when they are complete. But this week I decided it was time to investigate the radiator upgrade seeing as the new radiator box has gathered a sufficient amount of dust to sprout potatoes.

The radiator is for a Fiat Punto GT and is nearly the perfect size. ‘Nearly’.
I knew from the measurements that a little work would be required to fit it neatly and I thought is was worth a try because the triple core Punto rads a readily available for less than £150. That was a good reason to try.

First of all it was obvious and expected that a small cut and shut would be needed in the front panel to gain the extra 20mm of width needed to install the radiator in the same position as the original late design radiator. There is plenty of space to fit the rad at an angle towards the gearbox if you don’t want to modify the front panel. But seeing as I have to do a full restoration on the engine bay I chose to make a cleaner install.

The area marked in blue is where the cut and shut needs to be, the yellow is the original radiator mounts and the green is where I need to make new mounts to accomodate the Punto rad.

Please excuse the state of the engine bay but all will be restored in time when I’ve finished chopping about and moving things.

Again from inside the engine bay, the blue is the area that fouls and the red is to be cut and shut.

Offending metalwork cut

Obstruction moved over 20mm and re welded back in position. Then a couple of new brackets for the Punto rad to sit on and she’s in.

The rad is now so close to the original size and position that the original top radiator hose still fits.
A new position for the lower radiator hose means that some off the shelf silicon pipes will need to be used.
The original plastic and rubber ducting pieces around the radiator should fit with minimal trimming and a new piece to close the gap between the bottom of the rad and the lower crossmember are on the list of things to do along with aftermarket radiator fan. The rad fan switch is also in the original position and takes the original beta fan switch.

The original brackets and fitment of the oil cooler are still standard.

Fantastic work Ian - it appears that your spidey-sense guess regarding the Punto rad fitting was spot on. That really is quite a small amount of cutting and shutting to make it work. Is the rad in question a standard one for the Punto GT or an uprated item? I notice the Punto GT has a quoted power output of 131-133 bhp. I'm seriously thinking of using that radiator with the refurbished motor in my Spider which I hope will produce around 155-160 bhp. Would the radiator you have be capable of cooling an engine with 25-30bhp more than a standard Punto GT?

Either way, it's an excellent piece of work and well done for seeking out an alternative to the standard Beta fitment.

Yes I’m sure this rad is capable of cooling 150+ bhp. It isn’t a standard Punto rad which I believe is 2 core. It’s an aftermarket upgrade jobbie with a triple core weighing in at 40mm thick. (A std VX rad is also only 2 core). Also bearing in mind the Punto is a turbo, and a modified car will produce more torque/heat than an n/a Beta. (try saying that after a couple of glasses of vino). I have no doubt it will be more than capable.  

There was one small mod to the rad (nearly forgot) which involved tapping and fitting a small take-off for the feed back to the header tank. I wasn’t going to bother with this as I might fit one of my in-line thermostats which already has a small return. But just in case I choose to go with a standard type thermostat for a little more originality, I have the option now.

Cheers Ian

Thanks Ian, much appreciated. Would you be prepared to reveal your source for the rad (happy for this to be by PM if you prefer) ?

No secret, they’re readily available on eBay and such places. Can’t remember how much I paid as I got one of those 20% off deals. Think it cost around £120-130 but they are still available around £150-160.

If you buy one and need the 6mm take off for the header tank, let me know as I have a free supply that just need re-threading to m8. A 5 minute job for me and I’ll get it posted to you. You’ll have to tap the spigot on the rad from m6 to m8. Easy peasy in alloy.

Cheers
Ian

Excellent stuff - thanks Ian!

A small but very important modification ticked off. I re-run the sunroof front drain pipes. For anyone with a factory sunroof, I think this is an important job (unless your cars are different to mine). Both my VX coupe and this HPE have front drain pipes from the sunroof draining into the sills. By draining I mean filling the sills with water because the pipes do not have an exit under the car. So the sills are filled with water every time it rains or you wash the car. I thought my coupe had been messed about with when I restored it but this HPE has the exact same cock-up.
There is no factory drain under the car for the front sunroof drain pipes.
So some simple food grade plastic pipes of the same dimensions, only longer, now exit under the car through a newly drilled hole and rubber grommet.

I shall sleep better now.

Hi Ian

Nice mod, no idea on the thinking.

‘Food Grade’ eh? Thinking of drinking the water…?

Peter

 ;D

The state of our water companies these days I might well collect it.

With my back deciding to flare up just in time for my week off I’ve had to rethink the work I wanted to do in the workshop this week.
So a little bench work seemed safer than crawling around under the car.

I found these m10 ball joints recently and thought they looked like a good option for the gear linkage joint on the rod that comes through the bulkhead.
A simple case of cutting the old joint off, welding a bolt into the linkage rod and screwing it on. The only tricky bit was making sure it tightened up to rest in the correct position.

Has anyone got a suggestion for a replacement rubber boot where the gear linkage passes through the bulkhead? Mine was ripped to shreds.

Hi Ian

Neat solution, but a lot of work for parts you can buy off the shelf?

Peter

Hi Peter,
Half an hour to cut and weld a bolt on. This rod end cost £5 delivered and I suspect it will last a whole lot longer than the original design plastic cups. If it does need replacing it can be spun off in situ.
I like to make wearable parts more reliable and easier to maintain wherever possible. Maintenance is always the priority for me.

I’ve done a similar mod on the Berlina gearbox linkage rod with steel rod ends. That is a little more work but it’s working faultlessly and again the joints can be removed via a circlip ‘if’ they ever wear.
I’m going to fit this on all my cars as I think it’s the way to go.

Cheers
Ian

I notice a grommet forward of the new hole. Is there an internal baffle in the sill that prevents that being used? It's on the list of jobs to ensure is done on my car before it goes for paint! It's still in the metal shop....

Hi Guy

The grommet is further back from the new hole and I suspect Ian has made the new one to fall directly below the drain so you do not get any kinks in the pipe which could easily cause a blockage, there may also be an piece of the A pillar in the way….

Peter

In that case i will take something so I can check next time I'm with the car! Hopefully an index finger will suffice!

Yes as Peter says. It was a straighter route. The other grommet already in the floor would have introduced much more of a bend in the pipe and also it would have been quite difficult to thread the pipe through.

As a secondary job I intend to make a shield to cover the protruding pipe to limit it getting all the road crud thrown at it. Also the possibility of it generating noise at speed with air/water rushing up it.
The rear drain pipes already have this feature from factory.

Cheers
Ian

More bench work today resulted in a shorter shift gear linkage setup going into a lightened raft. And a re-engineered front linkage rod assembly.
That’s the gear change sorted.

Nice work Ian.

I gave my gear lever a bend backwards to make it sit better to hand, but
of course it's all about personal arm length.

On your firewall gaiter question, I wonder if a period Fiat had a similar,
if not identical, item?

Nigel

 

Hi Ian

Understand your thinking on the ball joints, what have you done for the small link rod?

Peter

Hi Peter,
For the cross link rod I chose to over engineer a little as it seems to me that the shallow angle of operation puts a lot of loading on the joint. I have considered changing the angles to reduce the load but currently I’m happy with uprated m10 spherical bearings. I can’t find a bench picture of my current setup but this was my first trial mock-up. (A couple of bolts welded together)
One left hand thread and one right hand thread using m10 bearings with stand off spacers to get the correct pivot height and improve articulation and enable use of correct m8 fixings in the linkage rods.
I was worried these bearings would not have enough articulation but it turns out they are fine.
I now buy stainless left/right hand double threaded studding, bearings, lock nuts and spacers. All off the shelf stuff.

Interesting solution.

Thanks

Peter

Very reminiscent of motorcycle gear change solutions - a pair of spherical bearings with one RH/one LH thread attachment and a LH/RH thread adjuster rod. I wonder if something of the correct dimensions might be available off the shelf?

It’s been a while since I updated this post but I have been making progress. In my usual fashion the work has been jumping from one aspect of the restoration to another.
A fair bit of time has gone into the bodywork alignment and preparation. It’s not too far away from paint now. As seen in this picture it’s fully assembled with minor modifications to fit the Punto GT radiator and original VX oil cooler in its original position. Albeit 15mm further forward.
With the panel alignment checked and double checked, the next job will be to drop the drivetrain out and get busy in the engine bay.
 I like to do the preparation and panel fit with the weight of the drivetrain in the car to minimise things mysteriously ‘not’ aligning when everything is painted and the final assembly takes place.

Ian

Another job done and put into storage was the inevitable electric window mechanism rebuilds. New drive cables duly purchased from Mark and rebuilt as per Nigel’s advice to use the original cable securing brackets. Thanks to Nigel for saving me from finding out the hard way.
Whilst I was finishing the assembly I had a little idea. Both the mechanisms had failed at the ‘window fully down’ position. The spiral wire gets stripped by the cog. So it got me thinking that the sudden stop when it hits the fairly solid bump stop at the bottom, causes a high torque moment to facilitate stripping the drive wire.

So I’m trying something to ease the moment.

In my random collection of rescued springs I found these quite stiff springs that fit nicely where the original rubber stops live. With a bit of careful bolt and washer choice I managed to secure them.
When you power the motor into these springs you can see and hear the motor slow before it stops.
I’m hoping and praying these will protect the drive cables for a longer life.

Ian

I like that spring idea Ian.

I've got a rebuilt assembly ready to fit in my drivers door and your mod
will be done before fitting.
Glad the spiral mount went well.

Nigel

Thanks Nigel,
That tip about the spiral drive cable saved me a lot of time and hassle.

The spring I’ve used is very stiff. I can’t compress it with my fingers but the motor has enough oomph to do it.
Annoyingly I don’t remember where they came from and I only had the two.

Cheers
Ian

As the bodywork nears final preparation before painting, a small messy job needed to be completed. Stone chip to the outer sills and exposed wheel arch lip. My preference is a stone chip that can be overpainted as I like my cars protected and all one colour. I’m not a fan of black seals although I do like black inner arches and liners.
The stone chip used can be rubbed down to soften the orange peel effect, which I will do and then cover with 2k primer ready for final paint.
The exposed lip on the wheel arches get a double coat several hours apart after the joining inner and outer arches have been sealed along the lip edge with PU seam sealer. After final top coat and to avoid any contamination, all jointed panels are then treated from inside with Dinitrol. It’s the best solution I have at my disposal to ward off future corrosion.

Another dirty smelly job ticked off the looooong list.

Cheers
Ian