Lancia Beta Forum

After almost 11 months of work, my car is MOT'd and on the road.
It's not the way most chaps approach
their projects, but I didn't want to strip the whole thing down and then find I somehow lost interest in it.
Also, I wanted to spend cash slowly, i'm on a monthly budget!
Partly the reason behind waiting so long for the right car, one without any significant rust issues. As soon as I
spotted the FB mention by Andrew Cliffe, I knew this was the one.

It's had a bunch of work including in-situ big end bearings, all the normal engine stuff, a delete of the
Aus emissions system, an EU spec carb from Chris [which is working very well], a rad recore, bypass of the heater
matrix due to leaks, fuel tank clean and lots more.

I'm now in my happy place where I can drive the car and fix tons of stuff in between.

It needs a rear wheel bearing, a heater repair, front discs, clutch, a/c delete, a retrim, and new paint. A bonnet as well.

I've been following the forum for over 10 years, and thanks to everyone who's helped and contributed to
my car in every way.

Couple of pics out on the road today.....

Hi Nigel

Looks very smart from the photos, congratulations.

Peter

Nice one, Nigel. Looks lovely. It's all too easy to just let them become garage queens. Good on you for getting it rolling.

Great looking car Nigel- well done on getting another beauty back out there.

Mark

Well Done Nigel

And a very good point about actually finishing and using the car!

Back to the garage for me.

Eric

Spot on, using them has to be what it is all about, drive it, poke it, see what breaks... you maybe surprised what doesn't! Enjoy it...

Now off for a drive in the rain with trusty coupe :)

Thanks for all the comments, much appreciated!

Today I completed the assembly of a steering wheel.
I made an adaptor ring from a piece of 4mm stainless steel.
The wheel, hub, horn push and badge all ebay. I'm particularly chuffed that the badge fitted as it
was a bit of a incorrect, but cheap purchase many months ago. I think it's a 'B' or 'C' post fitment on
maybe Delta, not sure.

Also I made the original RHD column cowls fit. They fought a bit, but with some multi-tool relief, they
finally gave in.

Now my car is Sorned for the winter, it's time to tackle the leaking heater, one of the few tasks i've
not done on a Beta before now.

As i want to address the dash cracks it seemed reasonable to take that out first. It all came apart without
too much drama. Wow, that dash is heavier than I was expecting. The heater unit is also quite a lump.

I've got a replacement complete 'standard' heater unit, together with the control panel, almost on its way.

While everything is out I'd like to replace the thick and heavy insulation with something else. I know of Dynamat,
but I was wondering if there's a recommendation of another product that would give good performance without
breaking my cash flow?



As alluded to above, i'm deleting the factory a/c system, and I think i'll need a non a/c power-steering
pump/alternator engine bracket. I wonder if anyone has such a thing?

You've clearly taken a fair few bravery pills today, Nigel. Top work! Tackling dashboard and heater matrix is high on the scary-o-meter for me...

I'll say  :o  you're a braver man than I taking that on.  :)

Its good to see progress ( esp. as your beta is almost identical to the one I have. )

Best of Luck!


A.

Hi Nigel

I might have a perfect plated PS mount that goes onto the standard IE Oil block for IE cars. Let me look before posting a picture. Dyamat is a love hate thing for me. I hate doing it, but it is just better at the job than all the cheap copies and I have tried many because Monte's are famously noisy. Black anti - drum first (bitumen stuff is hopeless and copies like Fat Mat and Dodo Mat are horrible to work with). Then the thickest Dynamat foam over it. Use the existing sound proofing as a pattern and save yourself hours. Dynamat foam does NOT absorb water so no more damp sponge under the carpet!

I will come back when I find the IE bracket.

Eric     

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Hi Eric,
Many thanks for that advice. I'll look at that.

As for the bracket, I'm unfamiliar with what it should look like, but that appears superb.
One thing I need to check is the oil filter housing, of which I'll post a pic asap.
My oil filter, at present, is almost horizontal, maybe angled down around 10/15 degrees.
Is that the normal angle for an i.e. engine?  I ask as I know the old standard carb set-up
without p/s is pointing down much more. Of course, it may not matter in the end.

Cheers
Nigel

Hi Nigel

The IE has a nice alloy oil filter block that is my favorite for building brackets on Montecarlo custom stuff it has a flat face under the steel brackets where the 4 fixing bolts go through from the steel bracket I have posted pictures of. Both the VX and Montecarlo have huge heavy lumps of cast iron.
I have no handy pictures or I would post one.

Eric

Quick question Eric, does this appear to be a standard power steering pump, in other words,
will it fit your bracket?

I will inevitably have to fettle the oil lines and the drive belt arrangement as currently
the p/s pump belt is routed around the double a/c pulley.

I'll be glad to be rid of the compressor as belt adjustment is a pain.

Cheers, Nigel

Hi Nigel The pump looks the same, but I am not sure about the plate bolted on the front with 4 x 8mm bolts. It is hard to make out. I will have at least one of these plated and ready to go, but some digging needed to find it. I can not see the oil block behind it either so not able to confirm it is the same.

I found a picture of the IE Oil Block from my Montecarlo bracket build.

(http://)

Thanks Eric.

I'm going to have to 'bite the bullet' and remove my bits and actually see what
i've got to work with.

My goal is to be able to have a complete as possible a/c kit so that if someone wants it, I know
it's all there.

I'll come back to you if I may, to get whatever bits might work!

Cheers, Nigel

Today I removed the gear lever housing in order to replace the 3rd of the three nylon
pivot bushes. Much easier on the bench. I also knew I had a small bit of rotational
movement on the gear lever, and found that the block at the bottom was loose. I knocked back the
lock tab and got a one-flat turn on the nut, result. I also slightly tightened the through bolt to
remove any play there. This is the last step on the gear change refurb so total reassembly tomorrow.

Also today I had a closer look at the two dashboard cracks. I bought some Isopon hole filler,
the one with fibres in it. I opened up the cracks with a grinding bit in a Dremel-type tool,
and will fill those slots tomorrow. As I realise i'll never get close to an invisible repair, I looked at available
dash covers. I found a company in Essex that does leather covers that do the entire unit, but at £200. So
once the repairs are at least flat, I think i'll cover with a simpler leather piece just on top. We'll
see how that turns out later.
Meantime, there's some before and after crack shots, not necessarily in the correct order.

The aircon delete is progressing, all hoses removed, and holes plugged. I haven't yet tacked the
compressor removal, soon!

 The dash is still awaiting a suitable cover, as yet undecided.

I've used Silent Coat as a sound/insulator in 4mm. Thanks for all the suggestions.

The weather being a bit dull, I've set up an area indoors to start preparing for the trimming.
My 1957 Singer hadn't been used for a while, so oiling came first. Then, I thought I'd
renew my somewhat amateur abilities by making a gear lever gaiter, a fairly safe little bit, that, if all went wrong
it wouldn't matter too much. There's one spot where the thread snapped due to my inattention, but it faces the front so acceptable
for now.

I was fortunate to be in East London recently, a perfect opportunity to visit a hide dealer I'd found. He had the colour I wanted at
a very good price ,and said matching this wouldn't be a problem. It's huge, at least bigger than I was expecting, but I'll
need another in the new year.
I've still got some grey leather from the South African car, this I combined for the gaiter, but I'm undecided on having two-tone
on the seats. 

Amazing work I wish I had the tools and more importantly the skill for trimming. I went to a huge effort finding a gear gaiter for my custom gaiter fitting plate. I wanted a smaller less baggy item than the OE one.

Eric 

I've done little to the car outside recently, but progressed a bit
on the retrim.
I sourced one extra seat, a pax side, which hopefully will provide those inevitable
missing or broken bits.
A few days ago I started dismantling my drivers seat, ready to make the patterns.
There's a huge amount of fraying, and I had to machine-wash the covers as they were
impregnated with orange dust from the original scrim foam [ foam backed with
a thin nylon mesh-type material] which rots out over the years.
The actual seat foam is in reasonable condition, a few splits should be repairable with glue and
bits of foam inserted where necessary.
I'm still sourcing stuff i'll need to make the new covers, an ongoing challenge.
 

Interesting to see it all apart. Did you consider changing the seats or you wanted to keep the factory ones?

I'm planning on replacing the front seats with some random recaros I picked up cheap and retrimming the lot to half leather / imitation leather and some sort of houndstooth fabric for the central panels

I know it won't be at all original, but have you thought about contacting an upholsterer and asking if they can make copies of the foam part of the seat? I'm sure the original foam is well past its best and is probably in some stage of decomposition. Your back(side) may thank you in the long run...  ;D

Hi Graham,
That's a thought I hadn't had! I'll certainly consider it. Luckily, i've got 3 seats to play with
so sending one bit away wouldn't be an issue. Do you happen to know someone that can do this?

Chris, not really. I'm quite familiar with the existing ones, and I know how comfortable they are,
having done a 12 hour virtually non-stop Joberg to Capetown trip.
I've no doubt that Recaro's would be somewhat better though.

Thanks all, Nige

The only upholsterer I know is a guy named Tony Archer. He's mainly known in the bike world for turning a plank of wood into a comfy seat (he's done 3 at various times for me), but he does re-trim and upholster cars as well. Hos phone number is 07305 744141.

Eric, greetings again, perhaps you could advise below.....

Back outside on this unpredicted good weather day today, and
i've removed some bits to gain access to the a/c and power steering pump. Much better
pictures now attached of the huge cast iron bracket, and other steel stuff.

It looks as if i'll have to remove almost everything here and start again,[ without the compressor.]
Do you think you have the brackets etc. I need to complete?

Hi Nigel

Behind all those steel brackets I can see the Aluminum Oil Block and the bolts look the same. You might need a different bolt on plate on the front of the PS pump behind the pulley. I probably have one in similar plated style, but currently packed away.

Let me know if I should start rummaging in crates!

Eric

Thanks Eric.
Stand by for now.

What I think i'll do is remove the a/c comp then reassess my options.

Cheers for the rapid response!

I've now removed everything off the bracketry.

Upon test fitting the PS pump all seems well, I get a good support structure,
and plenty of swing to achieve belt adjustment. The pipework will
function as before.
Alternator fitment is virtually the same, save for a spacer required on the
lower long bolt.

It'll run 2 belts. All I have to do is measure/find/fit a [possibly] non-standard belt.

So, thanks Eric, but all's well!

Once again, I ask questions before I get my own answers! Ho Hum.

Nige

Even if you eventually answer the question yourself others of us learn something along the way so please keep posing the questions.

It is also useful to get others views on a subject as they may come up with ideas that you would not think of.

Peter

Thanks chaps, maybe I'm not quite as irritating as I thought  ;D

Now all reassembled sans extremely heavy a/c compressor. As a bonus, I now have good access to
the oil filter.

One of the old belts was nice and long so I cut a portion out of it, drilled a 2mm hole
in each end, and joined it with a bit of wire. My friendly motor factors had a rummage
and found a belt that was a perfect match. [Dayco D13A1000C]
I've no idea if this is a Beta-size belt, but it's now a standard fitment for my car.

And I've completed the first seat bit.

After a considerable amount of swearing, material waste and an occasionally uncooperative
sewing machine, the first seat is complete.

I wasn't going for two-tone originally, but when the fake alcantara arrived it
changed my mind. It is really quite good quality, and it came with a 5mm scrim foam backing, ideal.
It will also provide a bit of grip, and it'll perhaps be cooler in summer.

I added extra springs as an experiment, thinking that maybe the existing originals might
have stretched a little. I also glued some fabric to the base to give the foam a little more support.

The headrest was the most challenging bit due to its size. Originally the fabric was tucked into each side of a thin steel
channel at the bottom. Being an out-of-sight area, I glued the two fabrics together underneath instead.

Thanks for the suggestions previously....the base foam turned out to be sound enough so no need to replace it.

That looks good, and suitably in period.

A nice Job Nigel,

..plenty of patience required I'm sure.
( fiddly )

I look forward to seeing them in situ with the Lever cover. :)


A.
 

Hello all,
Some pleasing progress during the winter-scheduled tasks.

The heater box with its replacement matrix is in, and leak tested.
The dash is now back in after an Isopon repair and paint, with new sound deadening
behind it, but lots of refitting still to do there.

The last 2 months has mostly been on retrimming. The rear seats were much more challenging
than the fronts, due to trying to line up the stitch pattern.  All is done with the exception of the
2 door cards. I'm still undecided on how to do it, as the black padded sections are somewhat distorted,
and the fabric was originally 'welded' to the plastic.

I've put more sound deadening behind the rear 'door' cards, and fitted two new front seat belts. They
retract properly without any hesitation. The only aspect of these is that they don't have the spring
device and plastic wrap to hold them to the floor to ease rear pax access.

I've also changed the carbs jets to the spec that capriblu had great success with.
Haven't run it yet though!

A piece of 1/4 inch brass arrived recently for the oil separator project, to do.
Also to fit the new front discs and pads which have been on the shelf for 4 months.

Just a little bit of bling today...

These stickers were advertised on a Gamma page...they are quite thick with rounded edges.

They look a very tidy solution.

Eric

That's the same year and colour as mine - even the stereo is the same (although mine has a bluetooth receiver in behind it).  Looks great!

Aside from the fuel tank work [ in my other post] lots more work has progressed.

While everything was out, I removed the gear lever housing and fitted the final new gear change bush.
Much easier on the bench.

The crack-repaired dash is back in along with the heater unit.  The Isopon worked well, and after rubbing down,
a few coats of satin black finished it off nicely. It looks almost original.

I finally figured a solution for the front door cards. I cut the leather 10mm larger that the black plastic surround,
folded and glued to the exact size, then gave it one row of stitching. It was then glued into position butting up
to the plastic 'corner' all around, and then wrapped around the rear to the back. The right-hand card was quite
warped from water ingress, so I had to pack out the backing foam to make it flat.

I never liked the original window switch position. Moving them up to the console meant making a mounting block
that attempts to match the gear knob. The block was needed to let the switch wiring clear the small footwell air hoses.
It also gave room for a USB outlet.

Upon refitting the radio, the speakers wouldn't work. After much head-scratching, both speakers were dead. I still
have no idea why, they were fine before. The new pair [also Pioneer] sound much better, but I had to make 10mm blocks
to space them away, as they were a bit deeper than the old ones.

I've also been changing the colour from Silver to Grigio Finanza, a period Fiat colour. My aim is to do all the shuts and under-bonnet areas with
rattle cans, then get the exterior done properly with minimal dismantling.

Hello all,

After another month or so of final door card trimming and some more paint, I taxed
it again.
Felt great to drive it, so, last weekend I finally fitted the new discs and pads, and new hoses, bled it through
and went for a 50 mile round trip.

Alas, during the latter part of the trip, the clutch started to slip in 3rd gear when booted.
I always knew the clutch felt a bit weird, but I was prepared to live with it if it worked!

Now I'm considering my options!
1.Do the clutch only.
2.Take the gearbox out, and have the bearings changed [it's a little noisy]
3.Drop the whole lump down and do the struts at the same time, and clean/paint the engine bay.

I've still got plenty 'the love' ,and repeating some tasks is normal for me.

Question, will an engine hoist lift the car sufficiently high to drag the whole unit out, or would I really
need a frame/block and tackle?

Nigel

There might be some adjustment left in the clutch? When I bought my last ie Coupe it slipped under power in second. Two turns on the butterfly and it was OK for the 18 months that I kept it.

An engine hoist should lift the front of the car bolted to the strut tops.

Hi Nigel

Take the gearbox out and change the diff bearings only whilst cleaning the casing internally comprehensively. Change the clutch including release bearing and nylon arm bearing. Change the crank rear oil seal and the gearbox output oil seal as the most likely cause of a dead clutch and likely to kill your new one. The diff bearings are cheap and the first thing to start making a noise in use.

My view only.

Eric

Neil,
I checked earlier, and found I have 4 to 5 mm play between cable and arm, so nothing to gain there.
Thanks for the hoist advice.

Eric,
Indeed, and perhaps a full set of bearings is the way to go.
I read somewhere here about gearbox sockets/tools for hire. Is that still a thing?

Thanks both
Nigel

Hi Nigel

LMC hire Tools, but is the noise chatter at idle (bearings on the shafts) or whine and slop whilst driving (diff) bearings. Gearbox builds are serious business requiring extremely clean conditions and the circlips will drive you mad without the right pliers.

Eric 

Not to mention 3 of the six bearings are very difficult/expensive to find. Also Synchro hubs and sleeves are almost non existent now.
I’m currently doing my 2.0 i.e. gearbox and have been searching for parts for around 4 months now.
The few remaining nos parts available are usually in Italy (no surprise there) and unfortunately some traders are now refusing to send to the UK due to Brexit complications.

I think I’ve found most of the parts I need now but my pocket is around £700 lighter and I’m still waiting to see if the few remaining parts will make it into our little island.

 :'(

Yes, when Day and White overhauled my gearbox in early 2019 (mercifully pre-Brexit) they had to source those expensive bearings from Italy. They have A Man they use down there who seems to be able to lay his hands on most stuff. But at a price...

I used them to source the gearbox lock ring/nut that I needed to get the removal tool fabricated and a single nut cost me £25.

As I said, I heard noises last weekend but didn't spend thinking time on
a diagnosis. I'm fairly confident that the syncros are working as they should.
 I'll take it out again tomorrow.

Ian, you've painted a gloomy but fair picture on parts availability. I'm assuming no other
Fiat uses similar bearings judging by your own difficulty in sourcing bits.

Graham, I recall, and was thinking of speaking to them. They know their stuff.

It now seems like luxury that I got all the bearings and gaskets off the TAK shelf
in Johannesburg 30 years ago! Time moves on.

I think the beta/monte box is fairly unique in its use. Maybe Eric can help me out here but apart from the Beta and a few vans I don’t think it was used anywhere else.

A couple of the bearings are shared with other cars and vans but they’re all pretty much out of production now as far as I know. The differential bearings are easy to source as is the primary input shaft bearing clutch end as they are universal off the shelf items. The outboard bearing on the primary shaft had 2 different designs depending on early or late (i.e. VX) and neither are very easy to source but is shared with several cars I think. Delta integrale 8v, tipo, Alfa 155 etc etc. The early one is rocking horse poo.

Both the bearings on the second shaft are not so easy to source. One of them has the same dimensions as a late Fiat 500 but that bearing has less balls and I didn’t want to go there. I found an equivalent from an Alfa 164 nos bearing that had one more ball so I’m happy with that. The other bearing (pinion end) seems to be available as an updated roller bearing but I forget how I found that. Cross referencing numbers maybe.
And the pair of gaskets are to be confirmed (in the post) this week. I’ve ordered them for a Fiat Ducato/Talbot express/Citroen C25 van. They used the Beta gearbox with modified linkage and are still popular vans in the motorhome community.

I’ve also made contact with a chap that modifies the large nut/sleeve on the top of the gearbox. This is the sleeve that the external gear selector rod connects to the gear linkage. The steel sleeve is prone to wear and besides a possible oil leak it causes play in the gear change as the steel sleeve goes oval. The motorhome boys have these modified by machining out the inside and installing a bronze bush. The sleeve in my i.e. box has worn so I shall indulge in this mod.

Hope this info helps.
Ian

The Montecarlo consortium through Paul Courtney went to huge effort to find modern equivalent bearings and I think Paul found a full set of available modern bearings eventually with references.

I use the Integrale main cluster base bearing (the largest one) because it has double the number of rollers to take more load. Tanc Barret has them. I think he also has the double roller bearing used on the VX boxes.

I got away with not needing new needle roller bearings for the gear clusters which helps as I have no idea where I would find them. Once again early boxes are different with the gears running directly on the shafts so when they have too much side play they are scrap and possibly the shaft as well.

If you want to build a gearbox now strip the best 3 you can find and cherry pick with careful measurement and new bearings and gaskets as a minimum. The first and second synchro hub is the part you really want and is of course stupidly hard to find now.

There is cross over to Integrale Thema in places.   

NB Gasket thickness matters because if effects end float clearance.

If you are reading this and not yet needing a gearbox build this is all the hints you need to change your gearbox oil preferably hot.

Eric   

Hi Eric and Ian

Thanks for this, definitely not a faint heart project if you decide to do it.

The list of modern bearings would be useful to have documented here for future ref.

Peter

When Day & White rebuilt my Beta gearbox they gave me the old bearings that had been replaced. I'll dig them out and photograph them and post the pics. I would be interested to know which 'version' they are and part numbers for future reference.

Eric, Ian and Graham, Thanks for all the input!

Graham, that would be extremely useful info .Looking forward to seeing those numbers.

Driving it today:
There is a noticeable whine when pulling and changes to a quiet growl on over-run.
I can hear the input shaft bearing, and possibly others, running in neutral, it goes silent when the clutch is depressed.

I have more or less decided to live with the current box for now, and just change the knackered clutch.
In the meantime, I will seek a spare gearbox to rebuild.

This thread has actually made me think that it's probably worth changing the diff bearings while all the oily bits are out of the car and on the floor. Is it a particularly difficult job and are any special tools required?

Hi Graham

Was that not done with the Day & White Gearbox build? Done correctly you would check the side play on the differential planet gears and replace the shims as needed inside the diff housing. This needs spare gearbox parts of the kind I carefully keep for my next re-build. Most of the time the side play on the diff is fine and you use hydraulic pullers to remove the old bearing. If you heat the new inner assembly in the oven 200 degrees C they should drop onto the diff outer although having a press might help. There is a pre-load measuring routine (haynes manual and Lancia Tech Books) for choosing the right bearing pre-load shim.  My experience suggests as long as you do not change the casing or the diff bearing cover plates you will end up using the same preload shim for the diff bearings.

Replace the oil seals and O rings on the diff bearing cover plates. I clean them up and paint them avoiding paint on the machined faces. The oil seals have their size written on the in tiny writing and you can order new ones on one of the online bearing supply sites if your local industrial bearing supplier is a bit reluctant/hopeless.

TMH and others probably have the seals and O rings at a crazy price if you want to go that way.

NB if the diff and pinion are heavily worn the rest of the gearbox will be too. This from a lack of oil changes leaving what amounts to grinding paste working away.     

Hi Eric,
Does the Monte gearbox share all 6 bearings with the Beta?

And the aforementioned clutch release arm bush?

Regards, Nigel

Hi Nigel

Yes with the standard gearbox. Some later boxes have needle roller clusters some do not. The Monte has a sintered speedo drive at a different pitch to the Beta, lower first gear (not swappable because the fixed shaft is matched) and different selector assembly.

Early Monte boxes chatter at idle just like early Beta boxes due to the slack end float clearances that were improved in later boxes.

Eric

Mine is a hybrid mix of Monte and VX with a few bits of Integrale.   

Thanks Eric, I will check with Day & White on Monday. I can't imagine they would have overlooked that.

Graham,
You'll know by the number of old bearings they gave back to you, maybe.

Thanks for that info Eric.

Nigel

Well, I took Eric's advice and removed the gearbox this afternoon.

I have the same issue as Graham, the clutch arm is stuck to the spline, so some work there.
The flywheel needs resurfacing, rusty pits from its 14 year standing, the clutch plate is
down to the rivets both sides. No serious oil leaks detected, but I'll change the crank seal.

For the gearbox, it seems crazy to refit without addressing the known issues, so more
research on bearings, gaskets and seals coming up.

Hi Nigel,

You're very welcome to borrow the tool I used to free my clutch arm. Just PM me your address and I'll send it off. Give it a good soaking with Plus Gas while you're waiting...

Graham

That's awesome Graham,
Thanks, sending pm.

Gents,
I've just measured the flywheel with a digital caliper and find the thickness to
be on the Haynes manual limit of 24.2mm.
However, at the back, i'm measuring from a small raised portion, I'm not sure where
it should be measured from.
In any case, does anyone have an updated-from-experience minimum to go by?

The effect of skimming too much is that the clutch assembly will be further away from the release
bearing I think, therefore perhaps reducing available adjustment?
Is there any other collateral effect that I should be wary of?

Hi Nigel

Very hard to measure this. If it has never been ground before it is unlikely to be a problem. You want the flywheel surface ground if you can not skimmed in a lathe to better deal with hardened hot spots. Get the flywheel crack tested before they start. If cracks develop the flywheel can break away.

Enjoy

Eric
PS remember to replace the gearbox output seal and bearing carrier cover gasket. NB a thicker gasket pushes the release bearing closer to the clutch.

Thanks Eric.

The flywheel is now in for crack test and grind. He reckons 10 thou should do it.

NB "a thicker gasket pushes the release bearing closer to the clutch".

During actuating, surely not? To achieve that, the fork would need modifying.

Nigel

Hi Nigel

You are right I think the paint fumes from my house being painted are getting to me!

Eric

I received a box of bits from TMH today, quicker than expected by DHL, but
the order and payment process was quite protracted.

I've now got all the seals and O rings, a gasket set, crank seal, clutch release bearing and diff bearings.
One part, the clutch arm bush, measures 0.4mm larger than the hole in the bellhousing.
Seems it might be a bit too big, but it fits the arm well enough. 

I stripped the diff out of the box, and replaced the bearings. The old ones were not that bad
as it happens. I used a cheap 3 legged puller from Screwfix which I had to modify for the second bearing
on the engine side. The new ones tapped on with suitable pin punches, bottoming out nicely. I was pleased to
find that the magnet had no big bits attached, just fine swarf to be expected.

After a thorough cleaning, I'm going to reassemble tomorrow and see if the existing shim [1.80mm] will do the job.

As already suspected, the gearbox input shaft has bad bearings, but the main shaft feels ok. I may well leave this for
now, and do these bearings later.

Hi Nigel,

That's very interesting - I've just bought the same part but from Betaboyz; I haven't measured it and the bell housing orifice up yet, but would like to know what your measurements are. I'll reciprocate once I've dug my way into the bombsite shed...

Graham

Hey Graham, that was your 1000th post!

The bush is 27.32 and the gearbox is 26.95,maybe 27.00.

My concern is that the gearbox hole has a split section which could easily crack if put
under too much load.

Hi Eric,
A question please:
As i've replaced the diff bearings with the gear shafts in place, i'm unable to
do any pre-load procedure. Is it relatively safe to use the existing shim to reassemble?

Thanks, Nigel

Hi Nigel

Yes in my experience. With the same Diff in the same casings you are using the OE factory assembly. When you mix and match from boxes for the best parts it must be checked.

Eric

Many thanks Eric, appreciated.

Differential now reassembled.
 
As for the slightly oversized clutch arm bush, I've 'turned' in down.
I found a socket that fitted snugly inside and bolted it together with washers
on a piece of all-thread, then spun it in a pillar drill against a flat file.
I'm favouring locking it from turning, so pinning a notch into it is the next task.

I rummaged through the box of bits and found what looked like the
possible candidate, a Weber idle jet.
Its body is about 1mm smaller than the slot, with the split leg at 4mm.

Some filing, drilling and grinding later, it works a treat.

Good to see creativity in action.

Nice one, Nigel! I was thinking that a small metric cap head screw would also work. An M2.5 cap head screw has a head diameter of 4.5mm, which is fine for our purposes. All you need to do is to drill a hole that corresposds with the tapping clearance (about 2 mm), tap the hole to M2.5 x 0.45 and Bob is your mother's brother...

Liking this a lot.
Nice work

Ian

Good progress today and recently.

Last weekend I took out the right hand strut, dissembled, cleaned and regreased the top
swivel bearing. I've already done the left side, both now good to go.

Today the flywheel, clutch and gearbox went back in.
Hot tip: it's best to remember to fit the sandwich plate before the flywheel, otherwise it gets all bent again!
I must say the gearbox was quite a struggle on my own, but doable. Several small blocks of wood to position
it helped a lot.

I'd noticed a rumble on the wheel bearing in the left-hand hub i'd removed. As it happens, I had one in
my stock of bits from SA, Fiat packaging, and at least 30 years old, bearings don't age, right?
This one felt fine, so I fitted it using some sockets as pushers in my No 5 Record vice.

I'm now ready to reassemble the left-hand hub, strut and stuff, another day.....

Nice work Nigel !

 :)

A.

Thanks Andrew!

Took it for a short drive just now. I adjusted the clutch while out, it had a bit
too much free play.
The steering is not really feeling any lighter, a little disappointing, and it's still not
self-centering as much as I think it should.

I'll take it for a longer run tomorrow.

Ian,

The same box was used on the Fiat Coupe 16V Non turbo so it might have gone into similar era Fiats (1st Gen Tipo etc)

Hi Stuart,
The tipo box was quite different to the Beta. There seemed to be an evolution of gearboxes through Thema, delta, Fiat coupe, tipo etc but other than some bearings and internal dimension similarities, I’m not aware of any of these gearboxes being closely related to the Beta to share the hard to find parts. I hope I’m wrong and we can find a good source of a available parts.
I’ve just completed a rebuild on my i.e. gearbox running in my Berlina after searching for syncros, hubs and bearings for nearly 18 months.
I dread the idea of doing it again as I felt some of the parts were very lucky finds due to mis-labelling.

As Eric has mentioned before, it ends up stripping several gearboxes and selecting the best bits to make one good one.

A little bit more progress this afternoon.

The distributor has been annoying me for some time as one of the cap clips was
fouling on the inlet manifold.
So I rotated to TDC, marked where the rotor arm points to, whipped it out
and refitted it so that the longer of the two cap clips is now facing the rear.
Perfect.
Reset the timing, fettled the mixture screw, one test drive and all's good.

More progress.
During the past few days I've changed the other 3 wheel bearings.

I found it really difficult to hear the bearings as my car is quite noisy,[ stainless exhaust] and
there wasn't really any visible wear inside the old bearings. However, a rumble was evident
on all of them during disassembly.

The drive is now noticeably quieter.

Nice work Nigel.

( thumbs up )


A.
 

I took the hpe to Brands hatch last weekend, and although she ran fairly sweetly I felt
it was a little rich, especially during initial cold running.

Leaning the mixture screw has improved it. Probably a good move anyway as
I took it for its 2nd MOT [in my time] this morning.

It passed with a couple of advisories, outer headlamps poor pattern, OSR shock misty leak, and a small
screen chip. The CO test was 1.046 compared to a max of 4.500, a great result. Credits to
Ian squiglyzigly for the work he did on jetting sizes.

The leaking shock was a surprise as I'd been under there last week doing the wheel bearing. It must
have popped during the trip to Brands.

No matter as all the shocks are on the radar to be changed in the near future along with the springs.

The headlamps were also mentioned last year. I have the Siem variety at present, and the outers are slightly
rusty. If anyone has a pair of as-new spares I'll willingly remove them from your storage.

The rear of the car had been up on stands for 2 weeks during some wet weather
and when I climbed in to drive it last weekend after I'd replace the rear shocks...horror, the
passenger seat was soaked, as was the carpet.

This was the first time I'd seen any evidence of a sunroof leak. I had
previously cleaned out, or thought I did, the front drain tubes.
Clearly, this didn't work.
I took the seat out, now indoors and dry, and poured a generous amount of absorbent granules
on the areas of wet carpet. They're doing a fine job so far, I'll pull out the wet stuff and replace with
dried-out grit over this weekend. I should have a dry car soon.

And I'll get to doing the tube clearing job again, with a longer prodder this time.

Hi Nigel

An annoying business. I like the using granules idea. I used to use old towels dried in cycles on radiators. These days I use a stack of de humidifier bags dried on radiators between use. These live in the car over winter drawing out the moisture.
BTW lift the carpet if you have any of the OE Felt left it holds a huge amount of water against the metal work promoting rust.

Eric     

You make a good point Eric.
There's probably original felt in there, so I will. Hindsight says I should have removed the entire carpet
earlier on...!

The granules are still sucking, and the first lot are still drying out indoors, so I'll give it a day or so.

Luckily the seat has survived its soaking!

Cheers, Nigel

If the car is pointing down hill, or is nose down on stands/ramps, even clear drain tubes can be overwhelmed by a heavy bout of rain. Happened on my 2000ie Coupe.

Thanks Neil, good to point that out, and as it happens, my drain tubes may not be as wide as factory
because this is an after-market [electric] roof fitted in Australia. I wish there was a neat and easy way to
get rid of it.

Meantime, look what arrived today!
The existing starter has always occasionally malfunctioned, so it's a worthwhile
upgrade and very little extra cost over a standard unit.

Very Nice Nigel

With good battery/ alternator connections/wires these are amazing. I have one for my Beta Spider and use one on the Monte

Eric 

I remember Guy Croft giving the US-produced version sold by Auto Ricambi an A+ rating. And anyone who knew GC knew that he was very sparing in his praise. I have one of the US versions ready to fit - as far as I can tell they are identical to the WOSP item, aren't they? Basically a Denso unit with 1.4kw output and reduction gear.

I fitted the new starter motor today and it's great. Spins the engine much quicker.
I am, however, going to re-cable the battery/alternator wiring as Eric suggested.
There was an aftermarket relay fitted to the original starter, is this still a good idea?

I lifted the carpet on the pax side and indeed found very sodden felt, so the entire
carpet is coming out to remove all that and replace with modern non-absorbent sound deadening.

I'd like to replace the carpet with something new, as it's seen better days. Possibly something
with 4-way stretch that can mould around the corners?  Anyone done this?

Cheers all, Nige

Hi Nigel,

I remember the Project Binky guys recommending this stuff (which is why I saved it as a bookmark)...

https://www.woolies-trim.co.uk/product/2057/hi-flex-lining-carpet-black (https://www.woolies-trim.co.uk/product/2057/hi-flex-lining-carpet-black)

Graham

Hi Nigel keep the relay it protects the Cr*p ignition switch. I used Dynamat Foam for my Beta Spyder. In reality something sound proofing and not absorbent that is not stupidly heavy (avoid lead lined stuff) or really expensive will do.

Hi Graham WOSP have upgraded the motor units on recent versions of their starter and I think it now has a higher rated motor. Your reduction gear item will be good.

IMHO it is just not worth using the Old Starter motors even after a re-furb.

After all failing to start is such a PITA 

Eric   

Graham, Eric, thanks.

I'd seen that Binky episode too, and then forgot where I'd seen it.

Cheers, N.

I've stripped the interior and very glad I did as the felt underneath was
sodden in three out of four wells. The sunroof is probably responsible with inadequate
drainage its whole life.

I'd like to to something better with the wiring on both sides. It's held in place with
a non-setting mastic-type goo, and masking tape. Are they all like this?
There is a channel running down the top of each sill which would be a natural place to
put them, after taping them up. However this channel has what look like drain holes all the way along.
If I stop the water getting in, this is my preferred option.

Nigel

Might the "drain holes" be for locating harness clips or would that be just too good to be true?

Hi Nigel,

How was the aftermarket relay wired in? Sounds like a good idea (as Eric says) to protect the ignition switch.

Graham

Hi Graham,
It was cabled-tied to the battery cable right next to the starter.
It had an earth wire connected to the bottom of the gearshift stirrup, and a live
from the positive starter terminal. The ign wire was simply routed to the relay instead of
to the solenoid.
It worked fine but was a messy solution.

For the re-install I'm going to use the unused relay/fuse box on the left inner wing that used to
run the air-con system. I'll just run a new longer wire from the new solenoid connection to the relay
box. Pos and neg are all there.

Frank, who knows! Maybe.

Cheers, N.

Hi Nigel

That dum dum sticky stuff and masking tape fixing is factory! You can skip the messy Dum Sum and use Tank Tape leaving the drain channels clear or just put the wires there if you door seals work.

Eric

I thought so Eric. All a bit scrappy to look at! But it does reduce the bulk I guess.

Apologies if I've asked before: you mentioned somewhere about a short-throw mod
to your gear-lever you'd done. Edit: found your reference, is it 'simply' the distance between the ball
and bolt block that's reduced?

Regards, Nigel

Hi Nigel

Yes it is and this was a kit developed by Mark Wastnidge I snapped up as I remember the long throw original. Probably best to message Mark and see if he has any hidden away.

Eric

Hmmmmm. .  Got me thinking and confused.
Are we talking about the bolt block on the bottom of the gear stick?
Surely the distance below the ball pivot needs to be longer to shorten the throw at the gear knob?

Actually, I think you're correct Ian.  Edit, no, shorter is less throw.

Which would be easier to re-create if Mark doesn't have anything left.

I had the lever out this afternoon, stripped it down, warmed it, and bent it back
around 50mm so that the knob is in a better position. During this I dropped the tiny key
which links the bottom block to the lever [to prevent turning] and it took some 10 mins
to find it!


Nigel

After the strip out of the interior recently, I found an additional
water leak issue. It's been raining a bit lately, and the car is, unfortunately,
parked outside.
Next to the accelerator pedal, there's a bunch of wiring, specifically a loom that
runs from the dash to the engine bay. This thick loom, which exits below the clutch bell crank and runs
towards and under the lower frame rail, had water dripping from it.
I'm not necessarily concerned of an electrical issue, but more with the water so readily
entering and soaking my new work and carpets.
I wonder if anyone else has ever seen this before, or similar.

Happy Tuesday! Nigel

p.s. I've ordered a car cover.
 

Firstly, Ian, you are correct about the gearlever, my brain wasn't engaged properly. Apologies.
On that, I fitted the spacers from Mark and all works well, although I haven't driven it yet.

The floor is finished and ready for carpet refitting. I used a 10mm closed-cell foam that comes
in a roll approx. 100mm wide x 5m long from Jewsons, used between brickwork. Ideal, and being in
strip form, easy to glue down. On top of that I used a self-adhesive foam-backed foil about 5mm thick.
Very lightweight and also easy to cut to shape.

Got to mention this: I ordered a couple of rubber Jack Straps from Midwest Bayless on Monday at around 16.00.
They arrived at 10.00 this morning via Fedex. How good is that?

Hi Nigel Impressive and inventive economical sourcing. I am glad Mark could help with the Gear Lever bits.

Eric
PS I wish I had time to do something on the car right now!

An 'upgrade' to the cooling system today.
I been frustrated by the horrible state of the expansion tank so sourced a new one
that looked as if it would fit the space.

I made up a boomerang-shaped bracket that would fix to the original mounts,
and fitted a couple of 6mm studs for mounting the new bottle.

It went together fairly well and now I can see the coolant level.
The cap is rated at 1.4 bar which is just slightly higher that the Haynes figure.

Hi Nigel

Nice solution to the expansion tank problem.

Also quick question, where did you get the foam backed foil from?

I used adhesive backed  cell foam, but would have also added the foil had I seen your post before I did it as looks a tidy job.

Peter

Where did you source the tank Nigel? Is it from a specific car/van?

Peter,
The foil-backed stuff is here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/403223209084 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/403223209084)
It took 5 packs with zero to spare, so suggest 6 if you go this route. This covered
the extremities of the floor, up the sides etc.

Neil,
Sorry, I forgot that detail! It's here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234030320731 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234030320731) and it's from a Clio.

Regards, Nigel

Nice work Nigel!
(my expansion tanks a bit of a tired mess too, be nice to freshen it up)

A.

Good day,

Got the car running again for the first time this year, mainly to test the new expansion tank.
All seems good, but had to fix a weep at the small top connection.

The interior is almost finished reinstalling,just the drivers seat out now, but i'll wait until
i've rummaged around under the dash in search of the intermittent-wiper relay.
On that subject, i've fitted a Citroen C8 [I think] wiper motor to a spare rack I had, and I now want to
wire up,on the bench, the complete wiper system with a spare column switch. I'm finding
the connections challenging to say the least,so sparks may fly first.

Meantime I made a simple dolly for the jack so that moving the car from
one side of my driveway to the other is less of a dodgy affair.

I'm pleased that at last I have a correct V5C which arrived this
morning.
Colour change, car model now HPE 2000 instead of blank,
and most importantly, the VIN now shows ZLA rather than 2LA.

Thanks to dvla for getting through the year-long backlog, that's
how long it took.

Happy days, Nigel

No matter how good bonnet cables work,and how much time
is devoted to correct adjustment, there remains the
inevitable possibility that things can go bad.

I used riv nuts in the bonnet holes and a dremel to create the space
for the screws.

Nice work Nigel!!

Andrew

Nice one, Nigel. That has troubled me for a long time, as my bonnet release mechanism has always been a bit marginal. Excellent idea, and one that I will be following myself. Another fixing that I've used in situations like this are rubber Wellnuts, as used on many motorbike fairing panels. Being rubber they introduce a bit of 'give' and vibration damping. These are they:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/401601696294 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/401601696294)

This might belong in the "Back in the Day" thread....

My last HPE VX lived outside. No choice, it was an everyday car after all. One Winter I couldn't get it started and the bonnet release was solid. Just no give at all. And I'm not one to apply unnecessary force. So, a little investigation revealed a puddle in the scuttle had frozen solid. No wonder it wouldn't move. And that's where unnecessary force was applied judiciously to snap the pins off the bottom of the grill and lift it off in one piece. That allowed a hairdryer or heat gun (memory fails me) to be inserted and 30 minutes later I got the bonnet open, fixed the issue (flat battery) and got to work just a little late.

Now I didn't know about the joys of Rivnuts back then so the solution was to very carefully drill some shallow, narrow holes where the pins had been, heat up a suitably short screw and screw it into place, slightly melting the plastic to form a thread. Took time but it held until the car went.

I used Mountain Bike Brake Cable kits and Vespa Cable ferrules to completely re-build my bonnet release cables. I now have working releases on both sides of the car so baring ice freezing it solid I hope to avoid trashing my carefully stored bonnet grill with full set of OE fragile plastic pins.

Eric
NB The Mountain bike inner cable ends fit the pull levers very nicely.   

I've had the slow wiper issue and weak indicators ever since I first got the car.
I found 10.8v at both relevant fuses, the rest reading a healthy 12.4v.
Going straight to source, the input of the ignition switch read 12.4v,
however the output was 11.8v.

I then removed the fuse box and connectors. Squeezed and cleaned each blade and
plug terminal, then refitted with liberal sprays of contact cleaner. This brought
the relevant fuses up to 11.8v,and wipers and indicators are now much improved and
I hope a new complete ignition switch now on order will be a cure.

On that subject, I finally got around to mounting a relay on a fabricated bracket at
the starter motor.

And I've also refitted the hatch screen trim, which was previously flapping loose in one
corner. I'll leave the pressure bricks overnight.

And finally, about 2 weeks ago, I sealed the aftermarket leaking electric sunroof surround
with black CT1, then had a local company wrap the roof. The offending roof is visible, but
I can now relax knowing that it won't ruin my interior again.

Excellent work Nigel!


Good to see that rear trim window on!
( what was the bonding agent you used ? you did tell me I've forgotten. )


Andrew.
 

I had a good result with the hatch trim.
It's in a good position and all corners are
seated well.
Andrew, it's a sealant/adhesive called CT1.
I asked a local screen company for a tube of their gloop, but the product and gun they use is much different.

Cheers, n.

now why didn't I think of that before splashing out on putting mine back to metal :)

Chris, after spending probably 100 hours on the upholstery, checking all the drains
properly, and then finding the inside soaking wet I decided something effective but
semi-permanent was needed.
It is a bodge, but remains
reversible for the future custodian.

Thanks Nigel, I probably could have used exactly the same method to bond mine, I found that my rear window trim ( and from I understand nearly all ) don't fit prefectly ( shapewise in relation to the recess form ) and some areas need a bit of extra black sealant applied.

Cheers Andrew. 

I've fitted a new ignition switch but the problem remains.

I'm now going to check each circuit which is energised by the ignition switch.
These are wipers, indicators, rear screen,rear wiper, heater fan and I reckon, the ignition system
itself, i.e. coil and ecu. Any more? I suspect some of these are fed by the same fuse.
Luckily,I have late wiring diagrams to pore over.
Hopefully isolating one-by-one might identify the culprit.

Onwards I go...

Hi Nigel

Include looking inside the fuse box by removing the back panel. You are looking for wires with bloated insulation from heat i.e. resistance. Also clean contacts and a strong click when you load your shiny new fuse. To tighten the contact a squeeze fuse removed will do. A Dremel with a small wire brush is great for getting clean contacts.

Enjoy?

Eric 

I did exactly as you suggested Eric, and things are better already.
Cleaned terminals and new fuses where appropriate.
No signs of bloated cables within the fuse box, but there are some strange
goings-on. Fuses 1,6,9 and 14 have no outputs connected,although everything
functions. This is starting to look like a future rewiring project.

I disconnected the ign coil,then tried the wipers and indicators. Both much faster.
I found a high resistance at the coil: 2.4ohms, [looks to be the original
part number,so very old] so i've got a 1.5ohm coil on its way.

The encouragement is very helpful,thanks.

Nigel

Eric,
This is the coil i'm waiting for.
It's described as a 'ballast coil'. Does this indicate that
I could or should bypass the OEM ballast,or can it remain in the circuit?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2553889.m570.l1313&_nkw=+170625630589&_sacat=0 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2553889.m570.l1313&_nkw=+170625630589&_sacat=0)

Thanks, Nigel

Hi Nigel

I do not know and would have to check with Accu Spark and suggest you do just that. The later cars moved to dry coils because they are supposed to be more reliable and more compact. You definitely want the manufacturers tech sheet. A ballast might be needed to protect the ignition switch. Of course if you have a relay on the switch it is less of a concern.

Eric

Eric,
Accu Spark replied saying "the coil is to be used in conjunction
with the existing ballast resistor." All good I thought.

However, upon fitting, no start. I bypassed the resistor and it started.
I checked the resistance between the terminals [the primary winding] of the new
coil and it read 2.8ohms. I am uncertain whether the absence of the resistor could
damage any other part of the ignition system.
I'd have thought that a coil advertised as a 1.5ohm coil should produce a similar reading?

I'm sending it back.

Refitted the old one and all's back running.
This conundrum will wait until my return from France. She's running well enough for that.

The trip to France brought a couple of unforeseen benefits.

Upon chatting to Kevin [betaveloce], I have now acquired 2 VX gearboxes and a
LHD pair of steering column cowls.

One box is in pieces but mostly complete bar some bolts and an output drive flange.
The other is still built up.
I'm concentrating on the in-bits box first, trying to find out why it
was stripped. The bearings have tiny wear marks, but all gears are good.
Selector forks have got barely visible use.
As noted by Eric previously, the Primary shaft [from engine] has a double ball bearing at its
outer end, and 5th gear on the Secondary shaft is splined.

I'm now on a mission to find 2 bearings, specifically the Double Ball Bearing on the Primary outer end.
The other is the engine end of the Secondary shaft, next to the Diff.
I already have the 2 other bearings as previously purchased.

Onwards I go....
Nigel

Hi Nigel

Tanc Barratt is the source you need for the double roller (Integrale part)  and get the Integrale main cluster base bearing (the largest) with more rollers.

Much appreciated Eric.

Regards
Nigel

Eric,
Before I make a mistake, these appear to be the 2 bearings I need.

https://www.deltaintegrale.com/shop/delta-integrale-8v-transmission-and-drivetrain/46403499 (https://www.deltaintegrale.com/shop/delta-integrale-8v-transmission-and-drivetrain/46403499)

https://www.deltaintegrale.com/shop/delta-integrale-8v-transmission-and-drivetrain/46403498 (https://www.deltaintegrale.com/shop/delta-integrale-8v-transmission-and-drivetrain/46403498)

have I got this right?
Many thanks
Nigel

Hi Nigel

Yes as far as I can tell. On the first one I am relying on the exploded part diagram. Best measure them on receipt and check.

Eric

Thanks Eric.

It's good to have a second 'tick', although I was fairly certain i'd
found the correct ones.
I'm waiting on some other stuff: RS for the diff bearings and TMH for gaskets and seals.

Looking forward to getting this together.

I can't find any solid reason why it was in bits apart from some very light marks on
the bearing behind the clutch.

The work area will be a lot cleaner when I start building it up!

Cheers
Nigel

Has anyone ever tried fitting an Alfa Romeo Q2 limited slip differential into a Beta box? The casings look so similar to the Alfa 164 to me. Somewhere in the garage I think I have a 164 differential that came out of a gearbox that's now got a Q2 fitted. If it surfaces in the impending house move and anyone wants it for comparison you're welcome to it if postage is covered. But it's very heavy!

Guy

Nice work Nigel. You did say you're not one to postpone things ;D

I'm glad the gearboxes (or at least one of them) will be used instead of taking up space in my garage and/or basement. They have been lying around here for at least 15 years and they're heavy things to move when they are in the way :D

Unfortunately the first bearing listed [499] is too large in outer circumference, the other dimensions match.
I haven't yet identified another which might match.
Eric, I know it was a while ago you built your box, but do you have any more helpful info?

Regards, Nigel

Hi Nigel,
This is my information that I have accrued over the years.
When I rebuilt my late i.e./VX gearbox last year it was correct.

Primary shaft
Late gearbox uses double row larger bearing on 4th/5th gear outer end
Fiat 60808434, 7745838

ORDERED Eco torque ltd
SKF  444455 C or BA2B 633668A     GB12152S01 SNR
AG Automotive 3260014AG

Dimensions 28x67x28.2

I believe this information correct but I’m not 100% on all of it.
Hope this helps


Ian

Hi Nigel

Packing for moving has my reference info buried in a Lock up. I know I used an Integrale Base Bearing and the Integrale double row bearing as well but have no numbers here to refer to.

Sorry

Eric   

Which is the other bearing you are looking for?
The second shaft inner for the pinion end?

Secondary shaft pinion end no. 82310130 SKF BC1B 635051 B - this Is a 14 pin metal cage roller 42x80x18. N12099-SNR full compliment

N12099 bearing can be sought from a number of bearing suppliers or indeed fleabay.

Again this was correct for my late box

Ian

Ian,
Those cross-references for the Primary Rear have really helped.
No uk stock so far, but i'll continue looking.....

All the others I now have, so many thanks.

Eric, thanks for responding.

Cheers, Nigel

The gearbox work has properly started with an inspection
of the diff. The right side output shaft splines had visible wear,and I measured
the end-float at 0.50, this is at least 0.20 too much, but as I wish to use that crownwheel assembly I
stripped the other,complete,diff to extract that side shaft. I then put it back together
and got lucky with the end-float shim sizes, and achieved 0.25 on both sides,result.

I've now got the diff back in its housing, without any flange seals in
preparation for the pre-load adjustment. I've used my 2 shims together behind the
right-side flange,and nipped up the 4 bolts until I got a feelable loading,then
measured the gap between flange and casing. The calc deduced a 2.35 shim requirement.
Luckily, Bayless has this plus the 2 either side of this size i.e. 2.30 and 2.40 hence my order,
figuring that any error should be able to be corrected with all 3.

I've been closely looking at Paul Valente's photos and info on an FB post of
a build he did some 5 years ago. Extremely detailed and valuable. [ a link is in the
'Transmission' section,kindly posted by PeeWee ]

I made up a 'tool' to lock the left-side output flange to the pinion carrier, a rather simple
plastic tube from my plumbing stock,and it works a treat. It's this detail that's missing from
the Haynes manual,without this 'tool' a preload is impossible as you'd be conflicted
with the planetary gears turning.

Now on a ,hopefully short, pause as I await parts.

Good stuff Nigel, have you looked at the gearbox gears yet?

Peter

Peter,
An early look didn't reveal anything untoward, but I was still hoping
to find the reason it was stripped in the first place. It all looked fine until
I found yesterday that first gear is almost impossible to select [ by sliding the hub manually]

Much inspection followed, and still does. The hub will not slide over the gear dogs.
Excuse terminology.
More looking tomorrow, but I may well be tearing down the other [complete] gearbox
to harvest some parts, something until now I was trying to avoid. However,as i've already
taken an output shaft from the diff, it's not complete anyway.

Help, I'm running out of space! Kitchen table next.

Hmm not likely to get any car parts near the kitchen in our house, divorce would be on the cards.

If you need a n other gearbox/parts, albeit not VX, let me know as here a few spares!

Peter

My shim calcs were out slightly for some reason.
Nevertheless, here's a question:

In which way would be preferable, a preload thats on the loose side
or on the tight side of given parameters? Is there a good-practice erring?

Your opinions...
Nigel

Kind of depends how loose/tight?

Ian

Ian,
In the time since I asked that question I visited a huge engineering firm
near me and asked if they could make a 2.25 shim. Indeed they could,
and they wouldn't even let me buy them a drink. Thanks to Mark at MKE.

And, of course, they can make any thickness,so that query becomes irrelevant.

Shim inserted,side plates sans seals, and a suitable mid-range mass and it almost wants
to rotate. Adding 100 grams and off it goes. So i'm nicely in the middle.

I'll now fit the seals and O rings and this part is complete.

Hi Nigel

Well done! I have just found a list of Gearbox Bearings as I strip my office to move. Shared here.

(http://)

Eric,
That list is quite helpful, thanks. I've now got all the parts I need
[minus the unforeseen items] to continue the build. I'm now figuring out
tools to pull off the bearings and gears from the secondary shaft.

Meantime,i've come across an issue with the column cowling.
As noted previously here, I have a left-hand-drive switch fitted,
and now i'm attempting to fit the pair of LHD cowls. There's a
large spade connector for the lights that is fouling the lower half.

I think that I may have to trim the lower half to make it fit, unless i'm doing
something wrong [which is quite likely!]
It's not a common issue I know.

Back to the gearbox, and i've now got the secondary shaft stripped ready
to install the diff-end bearing. It took some making of plates to wrap
around and fit under gears etc, quite a faff but very satisfying.

While I build up the shaft i'll be selecting the best of the synchro rings,measuring
the gap [1mm +- 0.13mm] as per Haynes. The larger the better,indicating less wear.

The new diff-end bearing doesn't have a cage,instead it's got a circlip holding it
together. This means it'll be slightly more tricky to insert the two shafts simultaneously
into their housings. It doesn't appear to matter which way the bearing goes onto the shaft.

I've got some various sizes of aluminium and steel tubing which i'll cut to size for pressing on
the gears and bearings.

Perhaps by tomorrow evening i'll be ready to start the box reassembly.

The build up of the gearbox was uneventful ,and today I got
the old box out and new one in. It wasn't easy, quite stubborn,
and I have aching joints I didn't know existed.

Not finished, loads of reassembly still to do, but the hard part's done,pheww.

No dental floss used this time. I cut heads off and slotted 2 bolts to use as
guides, they also keep the spacer plate in position. I also slotted
the hard-to-get-to rear gearbox mounting holes. Much easier to fit now.

Nigel

The gearbox build was actually done twice, and I forgot to
mention that the primary shaft rear bearing wasn't the correct version.
It measured exactly except for one detail, the position of the
circlip slot which can be seen in the photo. This, I found, prevented
the retainer plate from seating correctly. The right hand in the image
is the correct original.
(http://)

So I elected to use one of the used bearings,the least visibly worn. Rationale being
that I really wanted to try out the VX ratio without further delay, and that I can
change that bearing later without removing the bellhousing/diff.

I can hear that used bearing but it's a whole lot quieter that the box of spanners that came out.

And a brisk road test resulted in 70mph [google speed] at 3200rpm.
Performance through the gears remains without noticeable difference.

Hi Nigel

Good result apart from that bearing. How did the car pull in 5th as opposed to steady speed running?

Peter

Good point Peter, and,as i'm going to do another road test tomorrow
evening, I'll do a timed run from 50 to 70 in top gear at full throttle.

That should give a sort of idea, unless you have a more useful parameter.
I'll also try a 0 to 60 as well,as it's a common benchmark.

Regards
Nigel

Hi Nigel

I would have thought the intermediate gears would be not an issue, just change up speeds different. The big question is how well your essentially standard carb car copes with varying gradients in 5th, where it may struggle on motorway climbs etc whilst keeping up with the traffic.

Peter

Peter,Hi,

Took it out again last night and up a fairly steep climb, and it maintained
70 all the way,but would not accelerate. This approach to the Sheppey Crossing
is steeper than most motorways. I didn't do anything else as traffic was heavy
on the return.

Also sent you a PM.

Cheers
Nigel

Hi Nigel,

glad the VX gearbox project has worked out. Good job!  :)

I believe my HPE i.e. does 3.500 rpm @ 130 km/h on the dash (which is about 120 km/h or 75 mph gps speed), so a few 100 rpm less is always nice for cruising (and fuel economy  ;D)

Hi Nigel

Your test run results are what I would expect given the torque of the engine 5th is fine for cruising but a drop down proposition for acceleration. You also have longer in each lower gear with less out right acceleration. I do have acceleration in 5th when I am mad enough to use it and have been to the 150MPH range! It is a judgement on snappy acceleration vs peace and quiet for motorway cruising.

Eric   

Kevin and Eric,

Indeed a success Kevin, but a little additional work to do after the summer.

Eric, that's essentially what i was after. I'm a keen relaxed motorer, anything to
reduce the volume and I want to take her down to the lower French
regions in the future, so a decent outcome.

LMC next weekend, here we come!

Nigel

Hi Nigel

One quick question to pick brains on your success, all this was done without removing the engine?

Assuming so any tips tricks for the just in case I need to situation?

Thanks

Peter

Hi Peter,
Yes. Contrary to the Haynes manual, and possibly other sources,
the gearbox can be removed through the wheel arch. There are many tricks and tips
and it's perhaps worthy of a separate write-up.

I'll gather some photos and post something.

Regards
Nigel

A few loose ends now done, and to be done:

The initial fill was with some 'cheap' mineral oil, thats now been
replaced with Tutela ZC90.  A much easier fill with the long VX tube!

Wing liner and small pipe cover now back in. And a general checkover
for bolts I forgot to tighten.

Next, after much brain debate, I will have to relieve both steering column
cowlings of small areas of plastic on the left side. I don't really understand why yet, perhaps the
new stalk assembly is not quite matching the factory original. It can't fit in any
other position.

That's odd  ???
Could your stalk assembly possibly be for a Delta? (they look the same, but I don't know if they are...)

Interesting point Kevin.
It plugged and played at the time, and this was well over a year ago.
It's staying put,regardless!

Regards as always,n.

Some random updates:

I've enjoyed a couple of longish journeys recently, to the LMC at
Leamington Spa, and more recently to the Classics on the Green show in
Croxley. The latter was a hot day, I survived for only 3 hours but had a couple of
very good chats with former Lancia dealer managers, HR Owen and another from
Herts somewhere.

An irritation has always been the in-your-face wipers that park some 4 inches up
from the bottom of the screen.
With some modification to the wiper arms, motor arm and the drivers side pivot arm
i've now got them parking at the screen edge,with a good sweep action. More work to do,
and pics will follow. More testing first.

The next MOT is this Saturday morning. She's running very well, i'm just always nervous
of the CO2 test!

Finally, a crazy addition: I've now got the first of the rear side windows automated by a
miniature linear actuator.

Nigel

Looking forward to the wiper mod result, they also bug me…

Peter

Here's an interim pair of images of the wipers mod.

They will park slightly lower in practice [10mm] [and not go up quite as far]
as the 180 degree arm on the motor spindle needs a tweak.

Interestingly, each of the 3 rotating/oscillating arms has a centre to centre
measurement stamped on it. I have altered only 2 so far, the motor and drivers side.
Leaving the pax side standard appears to avoid the 'triangle-of-doom', although it does
sweep a much greater area than the other.

She passed the MOT with no advisories so another win this weekend.

Having completed its last drive of the season my car is now Sorned for
the winter. A sad day. I've thoroughly enjoyed this years outings, and apart from a small
glitch boarding a ferry, in total reliability. Meeting up with lovely like-minded folk, putting faces
to names and driving Peters Spyder were total highlights. That's a well-sorted car you have Peter,
and i'll try to emulate your brakes during the down time! 

Its final excursion was to Lenham last weekend for the Gamma Consortium meet.
Thank you Theo and Charles for your welcome and hospitality! The car attracted some interest,
partly as our Japanese friends never got the Hpe there, but also due to the wrapped roof!

During the winter I want to address issues such as slow wipers and indicators, finalise
the wiper sweep mod, the flat spot, tappet adjustment and many more little things.

The below pic was taken in the same layby as the first posted pic on this thread.

Looking forward to next year and more meets.

I've done very little to the car in the past month except for
removing the carb and checking all the things I've read about in various threads
on here, in an attempt to tackle the very poor cold running and a flat spot.
This is ongoing, the carb is back on the car, but haven't run it yet.

So far I'm happy with the wipers mod, but still need to address the low voltage feed.
I won't finalise the arm welding until I've restored full voltage to the circuit. Full
14.2v could well cause the blades to strike the surround.

Following on from Peters notes on tools, and specifically impact wrenches, I
thought I'd add my thinking here:

I work from a van and decided very early on that cheap battery-matching tools
was the sensible option. Screwfix/Erbauer was my choice, and after
getting several battery tools, some bare and some complete,
a 'bare' Erbauer impact wrench ,at £65 odd, was an obvious choice.

I now have good flexibility between van and
 home, 2 chargers, and 4x 40amp batteries. There's always the risk that
stuff becomes discontinued or obsolete, but I should be good
until retirement!

Having said all that, my compressor is now up and running inside a sound-reducing enclosure
in the conservatory, [ conscious of neighbourly noise]  and is running an old CP impact wrench,
 an air drill, tyre inflator and blow gun.
I haven't used the wrench and drill in some 40 years, yes they are that old, so some new use
is appropriate even just to see if the drill is actually too loud, and if the impact gun is stronger
than the modern battery version.

Hi Nigel

As it happens my air wrench is also a CP one. You make a good point about the compressor, it is also another reason I do not want to use it.

Peter

Last weekend I got the engine running again after its winter sojourn.
Found a fuel leak at the redundant return spigot at the carb. I knew the brass
fitting was loose in its housing, but it had never leaked until now!
I decided a permanent solution was required so it was removed, the hole was tapped
with an 8mm thread, and I found an old needle valve body that would do.
The thread is not the same, but with some araldite, soldering, and cutting down
it's in, and hopefully will seal.
During this, I removed the big brass cap to reveal a load of rusty crud inside the mesh
filter. I'd forgotten to do this during previous carb strip-downs. The mesh was doing its job.

Also last week I ordered a meter of silicon hose to replace the brake boost vacuum
pipe. I was always unhappy with the angles it had to follow, and also that maybe there was
a vac leak at the booster end, so I introduced two 90 degree
fittings, now it sits very nicely without kinking, especially at the booster end.

Next up is restoring full 12v to wipers and indicators, which right now is only 10.4v. Corroded
and resistive old wiring will be replaced with new. Then the wiper sweep mods can be finalised.

Hi Nigel

Maybe silly question, but I assume the new silicon hose is rated as vacuum hose?

Peter

Peter,

Hmm, interesting, however I've never considered that.
The amount of vacuum is fairly low, and if it's rated for use as
a water hose I'd have thought it would be well up to the task.

As always I'm open to correction....

Nigel

Hi Nigel

When I purchased hose for the Spyder I opted for specific vacuum rated hose, my thought process was that the forces on the wall of the hose are different between high and low pressure so the hose would be of different construction (thicker walled maybe?).

True the vacuum will be modest.

Peter

Hi Nigel

I am with Peter on this with saying you should fit the vacuum rated hose. Having it sucked flat might have very unfortunate consequences when you need it most.

Eric

Peter/Eric,
Good points made and digested.
I've sent a message to the supplier asking this very question. They appear to be
a proper hose shop so they should know.

I refitted the carb top this evening and powered up the fuel pump. My
repair is not leaking, result.

Nigel

Gentlemen,

A message back from the seller says he recommends proper
vacuum hose, so that's exactly what I've now ordered.

Thanks for the wisdom!

Nigel

A somewhat late update to the vacuum hose question.

I received a new silicon hose apparently rated for vacuum. It's pure solid material,
with no reinforcing content. It's very soft and 'floppy'.
This gives me less confidence than what I've used, so rightly or
wrongly, I'm sticking to the current fitment.

Meantime I'm looking forward to the coming weekend at the NEC, and after that,
taxing the car for the summer months. I'm scheduled to 'work duty' on the 29 Apr,
but may be able to wangle a visit to Brooklands if I can juggle with a colleague.

Nigel

Hi Nigel

You can checkout the vacuum hose on the Spider this week. It is a really solid hose, absolutely nothing soft or floppy about it.

Peter

Measure the length and ID of vacuum hose you need - I'll bet it's available at the NEC - And let us know if/where you find it.... I'll need some for my Coupe restoration eventually!

Guy

The wiper sweep mod works, effectively parking the blades at the
lowest possible point and without hitting the screen surrounds on full
2nd speed at 14.2 volts. I'm now happy to share the dimensions
of the two modified arms which I've now fully welded.
The motor arm is now 4mm longer.
The pax arm is 5.5mm longer i.e. 65mm.
Once you've reassembled the rack, you'll need to plug it in 'loose' and align
the motor arm so that it's inline with its link in the park position, before re-installation.
The wiper arms need to be heated and bent so that they are almost straight but not quite.
You may find slight differences when doing this mod on your car. I recommend tacking the arms first,
then testing in the car. Adjustments are easy to do, trial and error time!

While the rack assembly was out I took the opportunity to install an extra wiring loom
containing 7 cores, more than enough to re-wire the system. The new loom goes through the existing
wiper wiring grommet into the dash area.

Hi Nigel

Good to see you managed to get to the end of it. One question why do you need to modify the wiper arms? Not something I would want to mess around with.

Peter

Yes Peter, as mentioned above, but not in great detail. I've got black stuff so repainting was
easy, but not so with chrome bits. They may well bend without heat though.

Nigel

Hi Nigel

Still not understanding why you need to bend them though when the originals sit flat against the lower part of the screen?

Peter

Hi Nigel

I will answer my own question having played with wiper arm positioning. If you try to locate the wiper as low on the screen as possible the angle of the arm means the blade is not parallel to the base of the screen hence why the end of the arm needs to be straightened.

Peter

Hi Peter, late reply but you're correct!

Meanwhile, I've been busy this weekend relocating the battery. I wanted to create some space
at the front to accommodate a new fuse/relay box as a part of a rewire project.

I decided to go big and install fuses front and rear, a cut off switch at the rear, and jump
start posts at the front. I used 35mm/240amp cable throughout. All parts from Altec Automotive except the jump posts
which came from Mobile Centre.

The original battery tray was very rusty and had been coated in bitumen, so a replacement from
Chrisc was most appreciated. I made 2 support brackets for the tray. It covers the rear washer
tank, but that is inop anyway, no matter. I ran the cable inside the car, running parallel with
the loom, routing over the rear arch and through the existing hole/grommet that previously
had an air-con hose at the firewall.

Another bracket mounts to the old rear batt tray fixings and holds the jump posts. Another supports
the inline fuse [150amp]

At the rear, an extension bracket behind the tray supports the rear fuse[175amp] and isolator switch.
Various new batt cables made up, fuse to starter motor, earth to jump post, and a couple at the rear.
All soldered and crimped except the lugs on the front to rear cable, maybe a job for another day if I have
the correct tool. [I used my hydraulic press for the loose cables]

Overall, very satisfying and it's tested and working.
I did consider the weight/balance change and felt that it would probably make little difference or...
possibly a slight benefit, time and driving will tell.

I've had a new screen sitting waiting since last year.
As luck goes, an AutoGlass fitter
called in on Friday to fix a chip on my works van.

After some reassuring chat, he said he'd fit it for me, so yesterday I
got the old screen out. Happily the trim came off with no distortion.
The screen was more challenging but it came out in one piece
albeit with one self-induced crack.

The surround is completely rust-free, a nice bonus. Now all cleaned, painted
and ready for, hopefully, Friday when he'll return to install.

Nice work Nigel!

 ;)


Andrew.

Hi Nigel

Nice work, make sure he fills in the two lower corners with the bonding agent. This is the main reason I think they often go there as it is a water trap. I get it on mine, but as it is garaged I blow the water out if the car gets wet.

Peter

Hi Nigel,
Nice mod on the wipers. I’ve often thought the swept area isn’t quite complete and you fixed that whilst lowering the parked position. Win win! Might copy that later.

As Peter has mentioned with the windscreen refit, stopping the water from sitting in the gap and rotting the panel out is something that worried me when I restored my Berlina. I decided to fill the gap all the way around before bonding the trim back on so it’s water tight all the way around. I might regret this if the screen ever has to come out but it helps me sleep knowing water isn’t percolating in that gap.

Cheers
Ian

Ian,
One relevant observation while removing the 2 parts was
that they appeared to have been fitted simultaneously. There were two
wires embedded in the quite hard mastic, one next to the screen and one
inside the trim. And the mastic was fully filling all the areas, which
probably saved the area from rust.

I'm now thinking that i've just removed the factory screen, but who knows.

I'm assuming the 'gap' to be thoroughly filled is the +- 6mm space between
the glass and the steel all around?
Another question: the plastic U shaped trim immediately under the screen....can that
typically be replaced with the 'standard' flexible U trim commonly supplied?

I'm hoping that he'll fit the glass and trim using copious gunk, just for me to do
a final clean up when its cured.

I'm now devising a method of applying moderate pressure to the corners
of the trim just to make sure they are seated correctly while curing.

Nigel

Hi Nigel

Sounds like the original screen with the embedded heating wire.

My experience was to use ordinary U shaped trim, but make sure it is small enough to allow plenty of bonding agent to attach to the metal. I made the mistake initially, my glass guy refused to do it until I replaced it with smaller sized one. I bought this trim for mine.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224003384020 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224003384020)

6.9mm wide x 9.4mm depth

The gap is if there is not enough bonding agent put into the bottom corners before the screen is installed. From memory the surround has bonding agent installed, then the screen placed in and then more bonding agent to fix the trim. Make sure the trim fits well before trying to finally bond in place. It can be flexed to shape very easily if you are careful and do not lose the connecting pieces…..

Peter

Thanks for the tips guys.
Rain stopped play yesterday but he was happy to come today, and it
all went to plan. I'd already rubbed down and painted the trim and the scuttle
where necessary. There's some excess inside which can be cut out when it's
cured. He left me some blades for this.
I ended up retaining the U plastic trim as it looked ok and there wasn't time to get
new stuff.

Hi Nigel

The excess inside is inevitable I think due to the small width they have to work with. Mine was not too bad so I have left well alone.

Peter

Good Afternoon, car looks good. I have started a 'get it on the road' project on my 1985 2.0 Beta HPE Volumex and was looking to see if you might be able to advise as to where to find a wiring diagram?

Hi LD2308,
I have diagrams printed in 1982 but they don't include the bits
unique to the VX or IE versions. They are separated into systems
and are on multiple sheets of A4. If there's a particular item you're
needing a diagram for i'm happy to send it to you.

However, a gent, George Stanistreet has large total diagrams
printed on, I think, A3 paper. I'm not sure if he's on here,
but he's on Facebook where he offered these in the past on a couple
of the Beta group pages.

Think about starting a thread in the Members Cars area. We would love to see
your car and help along the way!

Best regards, Nigel

George S Is on here, can be emailed through his profile. Check the Beta HiFi thread I started.
Guy

Thanks Guy,
I spotted him just after posting!
I've sent him a message.

Regards, Nigel

Hi All,

Still got some wiring diagrams if anyone needs them.
However, I don't have any VX-specific diagrams I only have the base models COUPE/HPE.


Cheers George

I recommend the A3 laminated copies of the wiring diagrams!

After some carburettor adjusting and tweaking, jets included,
she's now running quite well, and ready for the longest
drive to date, down to Marks emporium this coming weekend.
I'm leaving Friday morning, lots of time to enjoy the car.

One annoying feature that has cropped up, the speedo is fluctuating/vibrating
at all speeds. It was perfect until recently when I disconnected both ends to
poke around behind the dash! Since then I've had both ends off again,
and checked and reconnected, still the same. HoHum. I know it's a
common issue, and the cable is new, I'll take another look before Friday.

I've done another oil and filter change. I sent off an analysis sample and it
came back with mostly good results. No metal evident, but slight signs of
glycol and water. I'm not surprised by that, I've not done any head or cam work, and
a slightly weeping head gasket is a task for another day.

I've now got 10W60 oil and a K&N filter, which, so far, is showing a higher gauge pressure than
previous readings.

Hi Nigel

On the speedo, check the routing of the cable. Where I had mine originally caused an issue and re routing to make a smoother run from the gearbox into the bulkhead improved things a lot. Just a thought…

Peter

Thanks for that tip Peter. The routing is as when I first fitted the new cable, only now
is it flickering, but soundless, and I actually hardly notice it.

During my great drive down to BetaBoyz last weekend I suffered some cramp due,
I think, to a lack of support under my right knee, something that never happens
in the Mazda.
I considered various fixes. The seat is already raised at the front by around 50mm.

I'd had this foam for a while so decided to attempt a replacement, at the same time, enlarging the
front part slightly. This stuff is considerably more supple than the template.
It will need some smoothing before use, and I'm hoping I can squeeze the
cover over it without modification. We shall see!

That's pretty impressive sculpting Nigel!

Hi Nigel,
I also suffer a bit with my right knee on long journeys. My view is the throttle pedal is a little high to start with. On my cars I modify the underside of the throttle pedal by reducing the height of the bracket on the underside. I then unscrew the plastic stop on the floor and shave that down as well. The result is that the pedal can then be bent down towards the floor a bit resulting in a lower resting position. This allows me to have a bit of a straighter leg.

My other personal preference is a spacer on the steering wheel hub (if you run an aftermarket wheel) which lets me push the chair back further. Little tweaks that help me get comfortable with my ageing body.

Cheers
Ian

Great User insight Ian. I have built in the hub spacer for mine but have not had the chance to try the fully re-built pedal box with the VX Recaros yet. Food for thought.

Eric

Ah, 'ageing body'......don't I know it!

Ian, two good ideas there. I hadn't thought about the pedal position,
but did look at steering wheel placement. I do have an aftermarket
wheel and it's certainly possible to move it back a bit. I'll take
another look at that. Stalks may end up at fingertips but that shouldn't
matter too much.( edit to say they are quite close, so 30-40mm would be fine)

Your Recaros Eric, they have a longer squab I think, adjustable as well perhaps?

Thanks guys.

I wanted the new foam to fit within the existing seat cover as I
don't have enough 'alcantara' to make a new one right now.

So a lot more carving later, I stripped the seat and fitted the new foam.
As the new foam doesn't have the wires inside, I used cable ties through
to the seat base to hold the join-lines in place.

It was a huge struggle getting the cover on but the end result is a much
improved seat. Perhaps slightly more supple than factory original.

Smoothing and rounding the cuts is messy. Ideally, a glued-on scrim would take
away most of the lumps. I'll test it during the summer.
It looks ok-ish for now.

Nigel

I've done some 200 miles since the seat repair and can report that
all's good. No more cramp so far.

Today I finally got around to fitting two front strut inserts I'd bought
from BetaBoyz back in June, along with the weld-on collars.

All went to plan, following Marks instructions. I drilled a 2.5mm hole at the bottom
as an exit for the oil, pumped it out with the shock rod, then cut +-18mm from the top
and removed the innards. Poured out the few remaining dregs of oil and test fitted the new
insert.
I wanted to use as much thread as feasible, and found I needed to remove another 6mm
from the shock body. I now have the insert in place with 1-2mm of thread showing.
The collar was then welded in place, also filled the drilled hole, then primed and painted.
Inserted the new shock, lubed the very fine thread with Copaslip and tightened the collar nut.
The top scalloped 'disk' was filed to a round hole, and then reassembled the strut.

The strut units on this car were very slightly different, having the same markings but in different places.
 "WAY-ASSAUTO, Made in Italy, 909 27 1435, ANT 828 BC OC 1000, LANCIA 82395527" for what it's worth.

Interestingly, I am now able to turn the steering bearings by hand,(off the car) before they were both
too stiff.

A test drive followed. No noticeable difference in handling but the steering is lighter and maybe a
little bit of self-centering has appeared. No idea why!

Full test to LMC next Sunday, if the weather gods permit....

My drivers side window motor has been very slow recently, so
I purchased another complete unit from Chris (VXman)
I also got a new spiral cable from Mark last weekend.

So the strip and inspect revealed no surprises, brushes are almost new,
but the grease inside was a bit congealed. The armature runs in a pair
of bronze bushes, these will get a very light coating of grease. The plastic gear
will get a small bit of copaslip and the spiral cable, engine oil.

Edit to ask, are there any suggestions for the various lubes on this? Especially
the spiral cable, not sure about that, thanks.

Just an observation on the new spiral drive cable I got from
Mark last weekend.

The mounting bracket is slightly too large, meaning that the cable sits
a little too proud of the plate. It's not easy to photograph but anyway.
I used the old bracket, it's easy to swop just by opening it up, then squeezing
it over the new cable.
It's quite a critical dimension as the drive plate needs to sit squarely on the
vertical guide rail, otherwise there's potential for the plate to lift off the rail
during operation, also causing excess friction.

Thanks for the heads up Nigel. I’ve got to do the pair of mine soon. Good to know the snags in advance.

Cheers
Ian

Hi Nigel

Good you pointed this out I also had to swap to the original and had forgotten. Great that you shared this.

Eric

Now awaiting a replacement window from Mark before I strip the door apart.

Meanwhile, I've had a troublesome trim piece for a while. The end clip
would not stay put, so I did what Ian did. Thanks for the tip!

Also did an oil and filter change today (note for me 80957m) and fitted
a new magnetic drain plug with a 17mm hex on it.

Glad you like the home made trim clip idea. One small warning, don’t tighten the nut too much. If you tighten the trim down tight, it can bite into the paint especially on a hot day when paint softens.

Ian

The HPE went for its final mandatory MOT early this morning.

It failed, he found the nearside rack boot had split, something
I probably wouldn't have spotted had I given it a going-over, which didn't happen
as I only checked my diary late last night!

I removed it to measure, and having exhausted local options I took a drive to Car Builders
and got their universal item. It's the type where you cut until the correct size of
flanges is reached. It's slightly too fat, but does the job.

Not easy, and dripping ATF gets everywhere. I think the other one is maybe do-able in situ,
but that would be even harder to get to.

Going forward, it makes sense to me to have an mot, perhaps biennial.

Hi Nigel

Looks like we are working on the same thing, yours a little more successful than my progress. I have a spare boot should you feel the need to revisit it….

Peter

Thanks Peter.
It'll last long enough for the retest on Tuesday afternoon, and it's only a dust
cover, no oil.
My only concern was the 2 concave washers on the oil fittings. They have a rubber lining
which seem to have survived the ordeal , no leaks so far.

It's fairly sure that the other one won't last long.

Nigel

Interesting washer/seals those, they come flat washers and are pretty tough to bend by hand, so only way I found was to allow them the bend whilst tightening the bolts which is a bit hairy given the bolts are hollow and have a hole drilled through them. The spare rack I bought had a broken one in situ.

Peter

Glad to read yours is good now Peter.

I forgot to say that I smothered those concave washers in Hylomar
which also held them in place, conveniently.

N

They are called dowty washers if I understand what you mean and you can buy the easily in multi packs

Thanks Eric, we learn new words all the time.

As they come flat, is it correct that the tightening action is used
to 'wrap' it around the rack surface?

N.

During my numerous lengthy drives this year and last, I suffered
from cramp in my right leg. Not ideal on the M25 with no chance of stopping
for stretch relief.
I put this down to a short squab, not having any support for my knee.
I tried a Porsche seat which appeared to be suitable, but wasn't.

So, to the ideas section, and I came up with this.
I cut and shaped a piece of 4mm aluminium plate, sandwiched with dense foam
either side then carved to shape. I fitted a mounting bracket, a flat steel bar between
the front runner brackets for it to bolt to. I gave it a fairly long test run and the additional
support was very noticeable.

Then the obligatory matching cover made and fitted.

Hi Nigel

Shame about the Porsche seats, but looks a neat solution to your problem. Nice one.

Peter

As with many of my mods there's always some fettling.

I realised after the last drive that my seat extension was a little too bulky.
So the task today was to reduce its girth a bit.
Took the cover off, cut away a lot of foam from the leading edge, re-sewed the cover
to make it a bit smaller, and refitted. I'll put the seat back in tomorrow provided
the temps aren't lower than today, being a lovely 5 degs.

I have started rewiring the indicators and wipers.
I made up a new loom with all the factory colours and found a blanking
grommet just to the side of the brake servo to pass the wires through into
the cabin. From there, its an easy route to the column area.

The intermittent relay is now mounted in its fresh location in the new fuse box
where the battery used to be, and connections are almost complete there.
The new indicator relay will also mount here. I've still to decide on the best place to take ignition
feed from, likely to be from the multi-connector at the under-dash left side.

I'm adding/modifying earthing to various points on the assumption that earth doesn't
necessarily mean good earth everywhere.

All the under-dash connections to be done, and then the testing...

Nigel

Following on from the previous post, all connections are now done
and the new system works. I now have fully functioning
proper speed wipers.

The indicators now flash at the correct speed and the dash warning lamps
are also nice and bright.
The indicator relay is now in its new position meaning I can't hear it, but it
seems audible is not a requirement.

Hazards still to do, and a general tidy of under-dash wires.

Happy so far.

Well, most embarrassingly, I broke down earlier today.

Luckily I was only on the other side of town. It started to hesitate, cleared itself,
then stopped. No visible signs but I suspected an ignition fault.
No tools with me so called GEM Assistance who got a truck to me within 30 mins.

Recovered to home and after some simple checks, confirmed no spark.
I found that the rotor arm had no connect between the centre and point.

Thanks to Peter who had a spare item, and he checked the resistance at 5k ohms.

I had already removed the distributor, and also realised that I'm missing an O ring
at the base, hence all the smatterings of oil everywhere.
I seem to remember some having a gasket, is that so?

I've found the hopefully correct rotor arm on ebay and will locate
a generic O ring locally.

Thoroughly recommend GEM from my experience anyway.

Nigel

Hi Nigel,

Pleased they got you back and you already know the fix.

Eric

Hi Nigel,
Yes there is a gasket on all of my distributor to block engines.
Don’t recall ever seeing an o-ring in that position as the mounting faces are flat, only on the cam mounted dizzies. Could be wrong though.

Maybe a little paranoid on my part but I carry a bag with a few spares in the boot. Dizzy, rotor, coil, fuses, clutch cable etc. of course something you don’t carry will fail but it helps me sleep.

Cheers
Ian

Hi Ian

I think he means further down the shaft, not the block fixing.

Peter

Gents,
I did actually mean at the block face. There's a slot in the distributor
at the mount face that appears to take an O ring.
I've got a selection of some hopefully suitable
O rings on their way, however if the rings don't fit
well I'll make a gasket instead.

Eric, thanks for that GEM suggestion, top marks.

I stand corrected!

Follow up on the rotor arm failure:

A new Bosch item (1234 332 271) supposedly correct gives a reading of 1k ohms.
This is now installed and working although I have radio interference.

The other one I got online is a Beru EVL029 and shows a reading of 5k ohms.
This I might fit during the NEC show.

Changing the subject, I took my documents, including the LMC certificate from Neil, to the Post Office
today for Historic classification.
I'd assumed that they would merely send it on. However their computer wouldn't accept it.
I know why, as the V5C incorrectly states " declared manufactured 1984" whereas actually the correct
date is Nov 83. So I posted everything to the address given on the V5C for changes.

I hope there's no dispute!

Nigel

Hi Nigel,
I’m about to go through the same process as you.
Wasn’t intending posting mine until April 1st as I thought I’d read somewhere that it’s the date you can request the change.
Look forward to seeing how it goes for you.
Keep us posted please.

Cheers
Ian

Hi Nigel. Yes, you can only amend your tax classification at the Post Office using your V5 registration date. To use my certificate you have to apply by post to DVLA direct. A covering letter explaining what you want to do is usually advisable.

Hi Nigel, i've just done the same for my HPE. I posted the documents at the beginning of this month as suggested by LMC. In theory because of the build date in 1983 i should qualify for historic from April this year but i've heard nothing back so far........ 

Hi Kevin,
I'm not sure how long they take but assuming it may be a few weeks.
As Ian said, maybe they don't start processing until April?

Nigel

On the upside, so long as they accept the amendment, they will refund any tax paid post 1st April.

I've just received the V5C back from DVLA, but with an unexpected twist.

Although it now states Manufactured 1983 ( they accepted Neil's letter) it still
shows the tax class as Private/Light Goods (PLG)

Nowhere does it say Historic.

I guess that means a trip back to the Post Office, where the Horizon computer
will now say 'yes'.

I wonder why they didn't do the process in one shot.

And a 2nd Post Office visit later, this time accepted, the V5C
has gone to DVLA for the 2nd time in a week.

The counter clerk entered 'Historic' exactly as I did the first time.

I think the DVLA erred on this occasion.

No matter, it's done now!

Ian and Kevin, I hope you've had some sort of result by now.

Meanwhile, back to the spanners....

The bonnet hinge pins were seized and no amount of squirty stuff helped.
As I'm hoping to change the bonnet soon, I needed these to be free for a
reasonably safe solo-man swop.

Just a couple of bits required in order to remove the hinges one-by-one.
A support timber and a steel bracket did the job nicely.

Edit to add; The pins were very tight. I had to use my bench press to shift them.
               

Hi Nigel,
I posted both my VX log books to DVLA via recorded delivery.
I went this route as one car had a proof of build date letter from the Lancia club to confirm it’s eligible for Historic this year rather than next.
So I thought it easier to send them both direct. The tracking shows they have arrived at DVLA so fingers crossed.
Something that concerns me is the ULEZ exemption seeing as I live inside it. I wonder how quickly the records will be updated with TFL. I fear it will be a bit of a hurdle.

Like the bonnet bracket as a makeshift to fix the hinge 👍🏻
How did you get the pesky Philips head countersink screws out of the hinge?

Cheers
Ian

Ian,
Luckily only one screw was seized, and my previous attempts with
incorrect drivers knackered the head. I had to drill this one out. An ezi-out may
get the piece out later.

After some mis-ordering, it's a PH4 that fits. I've no idea how a PH head
found its way onto a Lancia, but there you go!
Screwfix have perfect Allan-headed A2 countersunk screws as replacements for later,
although they'll have to be shortened for the bonnet connection.

As for ULEZ, I think you'll be able to check the website before venturing outside.

Nigel

Nigel,
I’ve had my fair share of bloodied knuckles and swearing with those Lancia hinge screws.
Only recently have I come to an agreement with them. This involves a Makita impact gun and hardened bits from my impact driver. Lots of downward pressure and eventually they all seem to come undone. Unfortunately I’ve dented panels in the past by clumping the impact driver too hard.
I have used the stainless replacements on my coupe but personally I’ve never been 100% sure this is a perfect solution. My reasoning is that stainless is much softer and easy to round out. I think you can do them tight enough for the bonnet but I’m not so sure on the door hinges. So on the current HPE restoration I think I will try high tensile bolts and put them in with grease to try and prevent corrosion.
Only time will tell I guess.

Cheers
Ian

Hi Nigel, i received a new v5 but same as you it still said private light goods. Then about a week later i received all my documentation back with a letter saying i needed to apply for historic tax again using their change of tax class form as the car would be elegible by build date on 1st April. So i sent back the new V5 along with the completed form asking for change to historic tax but heard nothing yet. In the meantime i had to re tax the car and pay for 6 months but 5 of that should be refunded when it's changed to historic. Fingers crossed!. I have also heard that it sometimes takes a month or two for ulez to update after a tax class change.

Kevin,
Same here! yesterday I also received all the paperwork back! ( the date-amended V5 beat it by many days)

But as already said, the V5 is now back in the Post Office system, duly accepted.

It is but a strange system.

A little mod to the non-functioning headlight
levelling system' I retained the actuators so that I could
keep the simple lamp adjustment.
These needed fixing in place in the central (ish) position.

A small piece of anything to hold the pin and a dollop of araldite
to hold it all together. Both sides similar.