Lancia Beta Forum

General Category => Members Cars => Topic started by: WestonE on April 07, 2020, 10:47:59 AM



Title: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on April 07, 2020, 10:47:59 AM
Hi Beta Fans

I have referred to this project from time to time in my Montecarlo Thread. Well tomorrow morning the freshly painted rolling chassis arrives from the paint shop in stunning light blue metallic 2 pack.
The Shell has had ALL suspect metal cut out and replaced and been dipped to remove ALL old paint and sealant. It has taken years to get to this point.

I have a strengthened Subframe running custom far stronger wishbones and I have Gazmatic Gold Coilovers fitted all round.
The Gearbox is a rebuilt VX unit with integrale bearings in the right places and a Gripper LSD
The engine has forged pistons and rods and a Guy Croft BIG valve head running the Cat Cams proven on my Montecarlo along with coil per cylinder ignition and a drive by wire throttle.
The VX unit rebuilt by GC and Zylan coated runs a smaller pulley. I should see 250BHP and 240 Ft lbs of torque   
Tyres are Azev A 7x15 and will run sticky Yokohama track cross over tyres
I have 2 full VX Coupe interiors to sort out the interior. 

I have been building components for years so finally I get to fit some to the shell:
rebuilt heater
full new wiring loom in thin wall cable with water proof connectors
rebuilt wiper assembly
Rebuilt headlights & tail lights
New tank converted to FI with a Phantom kit & full new FI fuel piping in car like the VX.
Power Steering
Custom Radiator 
6 piston front brakes & full new brake pipes
Pedal box with Drive by wire conversion
rebuilt steering column LHD style on the right so the indicators match my other cars
Full rear seat belts (fabricated mounts)
4 x 50 watts speakers in custom metal work
Fully rebuilt Electric Windows & all frames stripped and re plated
All new rubber trims and a new windscreen Targa and hood     

I have a lot to do and will get some photos up here soon

Let the games begin!

Eric


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mangocrazy on April 07, 2020, 04:32:20 PM
Fabulous stuff, Eric.

But we really, REALLY need pictures...  ;D

The questions will come later.


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: squiglyzigly on April 08, 2020, 07:31:50 PM
Nice project Eric,

Really looking forward to seeing this go together. And ultimately GO!

Ian


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: markw on April 15, 2020, 10:51:35 AM
Sounds like a great build, Eric. Would you mind elaborating on the cams you are using (you mentioned Cat Cams)? I'm trying to solve the VX cam puzzle as I build my engine (I also have FI VX ambitions), but I am finding a lot of low-confidence information online.


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on April 15, 2020, 11:37:51 AM
Hi Mark

The conventional proven answer is a pair of Strada / Ritmo 130 TC cams or Beta IE cams with the timing shifted to get low Lift at TDC. This reduces blow through and back pulses into the VX unit and give a handy power increase. This works well with a DCNF or DCOE with the hot filter box heavily insulated or preferably replaced with a duct hose and cold air cone filter. The cat cams were special order and I need to look up the reference. You can do a lot with good 130 TC cams. I have really done this and tested it at Storm Developments a Turbo and SC specialist rolling road.

Let me know which cams and I can share the timing you should dial in.

Eric     


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on April 21, 2020, 06:20:45 PM
(http://)

Photos I hope


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on April 21, 2020, 06:21:54 PM
(http://)


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on April 21, 2020, 06:23:16 PM
(http://)
Gaz Gold Suspension & Upgraded Wishbones


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on April 21, 2020, 06:24:39 PM
(http://)
VX FI Engine & Coil Per Cylinder


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on April 21, 2020, 06:26:26 PM
(http://)
Drive By Wire Pedal Box using Tilton Parts
Custom Radiator with Oil Cooler


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on April 21, 2020, 06:28:30 PM
(http://)
Rear Speaker Pod and Extra seat belt mounts. There is ISO Fix there as well!
Hidden Stereo install and Cruise Control!


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on May 18, 2020, 04:46:38 PM
I have made some progress but with a lot of 2 foot forward 1 foot back stuff like finding my polished door trims were actually HPE items so had to be VERY carefully cut down to fit and the front hub bearings had been trashed in the bodyshop because they did not have the end CV joint bolted in. Now re-built. I am now Ninja qualified in re-building power steering racks with a good one on the car and a spare after finding the (re-furbished) rack was black sprayed rust and junk.

I found the clips from Bresco to hold the internal trim onto the windscreen surround but have a full new headlining to make before I can fit a screen, door, hood and targa trims. I will get easier or so I keep telling myself!

Bless Chingford Plating for turning rust things into shinny things and big thanks to Pete the Polisher for making old stainless shinny!

Enjoy Eric
     


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on May 18, 2020, 04:50:21 PM
(http://)


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: Sandro on May 18, 2020, 05:50:29 PM
Great job Eric. it looks very tidy indeed.
 :)
A.





Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: HFStuart on May 18, 2020, 10:55:29 PM
Whats the hatch in the boot floor for Eric? Fuel pump access?


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on May 19, 2020, 07:15:40 AM
Hi Stuart

For the tank pump and level sender. Photo attached.
(http://)


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on June 01, 2020, 06:08:01 PM
Indulgence with badges instead of doing real work!
(http://)


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: squiglyzigly on June 02, 2020, 07:52:23 AM
Nice touch


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on June 12, 2020, 06:22:16 PM
Fun with VX Recaro Seat mounts and runners over the last couple of days has meant stripping the runners from 6 seats to make a set since they were all seized up! They are an odd design with 3 large wheel runners each which go missing or end up jammed  in the middle.

Just 1 more odd challenge I was not expecting. At least I have a pair of front seats with the full fabric and even the seat back pocket.

Onto the next strange challenge.

Eric


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: squiglyzigly on June 12, 2020, 08:40:36 PM
Thatís interesting. When I put the recaros back in my car after a 15 year lay up, I only had one roller in each runner. Thought it was odd but the seats kind of work so I didnít give it any more thought. Just put it down to shoddy old 80ís engineering.

Looks like I will have to re-visit the seat runners now.

One thing I decided to do was to raise the drivers seat and tilt them forward a little with alloy blocks under the bolt points. I always felt the recaro seats where too low compared to the regular spongy seats and the driving position less than ideal. Depends on you physique I guess but I really benefit from the height/angle change.

Keep up the strange work

Ian


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: rossocorsa on June 13, 2020, 12:55:12 AM
Thatís interesting. When I put the recaros back in my car after a 15 year lay up, I only had one roller in each runner. Thought it was odd but the seats kind of work so I didnít give it any more thought. Just put it down to shoddy old 80ís engineering.

Looks like I will have to re-visit the seat runners now.

One thing I decided to do was to raise the drivers seat and tilt them forward a little with alloy blocks under the bolt points. I always felt the recaro seats where too low compared to the regular spongy seats and the driving position less than ideal. Depends on you physique I guess but I really benefit from the height/angle change.

Keep up the strange work

Ian


A long time since I've driven mine but I added packers to the front to tilt the base back a bit as otherwise leg support was poor  leading to creaking limbs on long drives.


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: squiglyzigly on June 13, 2020, 08:16:30 AM
Fun with VX Recaro Seat mounts and runners over the last couple of days has meant stripping the runners from 6 seats to make a set since they were all seized up! They are an odd design with 3 large wheel runners each which go missing or end up jammed  in the middle.

Just 1 more odd challenge I was not expecting. At least I have a pair of front seats with the full fabric and even the seat back pocket.

Onto the next strange challenge.

Eric

Eric,
I donít suppose you have one to hand that you could measure please.

Iíd like to knock a few up in nylon before I take my seats out to replace them.

Many thanks
Ian



Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on June 14, 2020, 01:43:07 PM
Hi Ian

I have a spare runner with notches in the rubber bit I can send you. PM me the address please.  There should be 2 rollers in each runner (not 3!) and there should be stop plates on the mounting bolts so they can not move to far and throw the rollers out. On several of mine there was only 1 roller left and it had got stuck in the centre jamming the runner. The old grease had set to concrete, but with picking the best bits, soaking in the pats washer and using fresh moly grease I have a car set of runners and bits the platers will make fit to use to build a spare set. Onto the next job!

Eric     


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on June 16, 2020, 05:51:47 PM
Hi Beta Fans

I thought I would share a couple more photos.
(http://[img])[/img]


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on June 16, 2020, 05:54:31 PM
And some more Photos of the ongoing challenge(http://[img])[/img]


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: peteracs on June 16, 2020, 06:41:52 PM
Hi Eric

I have to say I had the seats recovered, but never considered the runners being U/S. another job to add to the list To check when I get them out of storage in the loft....

Peter


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on June 16, 2020, 08:23:23 PM
Hi Peter

I checked mine whilst I was nearby in the loft and got a shock. Hence the fix. Check the frame pivots and fold down mechanism whilst you are there.

Good luck Eric

NB these are VX Coupe Recaro runners so maybe normal seat ones are better.


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: Nigel on June 16, 2020, 11:05:19 PM
Hi,
the standard rollers have a much smaller rolling diameter,almost half in fact, and the channels
are less deep. Design the same though.
N.


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on June 20, 2020, 09:43:03 AM
Hi Nigel

If they were standard runners I could just buy new ones from Car Builder Solutions. The VX ones are specials for the Recaros!


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on June 20, 2020, 09:45:38 AM
I thought I would share the Nuts and bolts of the job!
(http://)


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on June 20, 2020, 09:46:47 AM
(http://)


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on June 20, 2020, 09:49:27 AM
You will notice Gold Passivate plated fixings where the platers have transformed the corroded OE Nuts and bolts on a big scale saving me a fortune in new nuts and bolts.


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on June 25, 2020, 08:01:52 AM
I have worked out how to build my front strut brace using an off the shelf OMP universal item for the adjustable bar that ensures the tension needed is there. A trip to the laser cutters soon to get card board made into steel before some simple welding and painting.

Image of the pattern.
(http://) 


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on June 25, 2020, 08:05:14 AM
BTW the small passivated bit holds the bumper rubber end so I will ask if they can make them in stainless cheaply.


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: squiglyzigly on June 25, 2020, 08:59:25 AM
Nice detail.

Thought the small passivated bracket looked familiar. Was stripping and polishing the front bumper yesterday and had those in my hand.

Looking forward to seeing the completed bracing.

Ian


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: peteracs on June 25, 2020, 05:19:14 PM
Hi Eric

I too will be interested in seeing the bracing, something I had wondered what was possible to buy to make one.

Peter


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on June 29, 2020, 01:54:35 PM
Some more bits of the puzzle like the OMP bit of the strut brace with the adjuster.
(http://)


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on June 29, 2020, 01:57:20 PM
And a few more like making new fixing for the bumper rubbers with Inserts from Car Builder Solutions and Tiger Seal.
(http://)


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on June 29, 2020, 02:02:22 PM
(http://)


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on July 06, 2020, 08:33:27 PM
And now I am strangely excited that I will be receiving a Nardi Evolution Gear Knob to go with the quick shift gear lever (thanks to Mark at Beta Boyz).
I am still challenged by creating a leather gaiter for the gear lever but I have a cunning plan to quote Baldrick and Black Adder.

Eric


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on July 08, 2020, 08:17:46 AM
Some pictures of the Nardi Knob and quickshift lever using the kit from Beta Boyz and some matt black paint.

(http://[img])[/img]


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on July 17, 2020, 05:52:22 PM
(http://[img])[/img]

Designing mounts for a new gear lever leather gaitor and using a chopping board for the plastic to fill in the S1 speaker holes in the doors.




Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on July 17, 2020, 05:57:19 PM
Fog Light solution finally and the Rear Speaker Mount

(http://)


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on August 07, 2020, 03:55:11 PM
I foolishly thought building a spare pair of power steering hubs would be easy given the tools and knowledge I have. So of course lock rings were seized, the Lancia tool broke and alternative hub had cut off bolts firmly stuck in place and somehow hardened trashing colbolt drill bits. Then the long service press started leaking and the sand blaster sand was little more than dust  >:(

Some time later using SKF Delta Bearings. (http://[img])[/img]
   


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on August 07, 2020, 03:59:55 PM
A little progress on the strut brace as I now have the laser cut top plates and D plates to attach the adjustable bar. Just welding and powder coating to go and onto the next challenge on the endless list.

 


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on October 14, 2020, 06:07:37 PM
So slow painful progress with sound proofing fitting the gear lever and heater. Plus a test fit of the main cabin loom I re-made in modern thin wall cable.

I have also now worked out the radiator mounts and side panels, but not progressed from card board to aluminum yet. You can see the radiator is angled forwards. Helpfully both fans (1 each side) and the oil cooler all fit giving me maximum space in the engine bay for the Accusump plumbing and K&N Orion Air Cleaner cold air feed.

Currently I am working out how to fit central locking, alarm contact switches and how to install the immobilizer circuits before I paint myself into another corner!

Soon I have to give up working directly on the shell or get frost bite. Fortunately the new plywood door cards are ready, so is the new hood and I have a lot of cardboard templates that need to be made into metal so no chance of getting board whilst the body shop fix the various paint flaws. I will try to get brake lines and fuel lines finished before I turn blue and ship the car. 

Enjoy if you are one of the few that follow this.
(http://[img])[/img] 


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on October 14, 2020, 06:21:25 PM
For the more observant I have built into the loom Switched Live distribution which is what the extra blue wires hanging on the right are about. This is to help with adding the extra fuse boxes needed for the ECU installation and the extra relays that fix the built in Lancia loom issues like slow wipers on full speed. Working this stuff out made my head hurt. Fortunately I learnt from building a full new loom and installing an ECU in the Montecarlo that wiring is first done by studying existing diagrams and designing new ones away from the car.

I am also installing fused 12V permanent distribution to not have 10 extra connection on the battery live terminal.

The impact of sorting out Earth faults, corroded connections and replacing wires that are corroded along their length (indicators and headlight earth) will transform your Beta.

Eric


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mtulloch on October 14, 2020, 06:39:57 PM
Mightily impressed with the finish of the engine bay & other areas on this build. Where did you find the clear indicator lenses?


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on October 15, 2020, 08:03:45 AM
Hi the clear lens are common on European cars so I bought them via ebay a couple of years ago. I think Mark Wastnidge had some for a while as well. Sorry to be vague.

Eric


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: peteracs on October 15, 2020, 09:17:13 PM
Hi

Here is one side.

https://www.ebay.it/itm/Fanalino-Anteriore-Sinistro-Trasparente-Siem-8799-Lancia-Beta-Coupe-auto-depoca-/324120822985 (https://www.ebay.it/itm/Fanalino-Anteriore-Sinistro-Trasparente-Siem-8799-Lancia-Beta-Coupe-auto-depoca-/324120822985)

This is complete light from other side.

https://www.ebay.it/itm/FRECCIA-FANALINO-ANTERIORE-FRONT-INDICATOR-SIEM-8710-LANCIA-BETA-COUPE-HPE-/192513089891 (https://www.ebay.it/itm/FRECCIA-FANALINO-ANTERIORE-FRONT-INDICATOR-SIEM-8710-LANCIA-BETA-COUPE-HPE-/192513089891)

Peter


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: betaveloce on October 16, 2020, 10:32:31 AM
Thirty years into Betas and I never knew those lenses were handed   ;D
(but on closer inspection, the later ones, like the ones that Eric has, are identical left and right  :D)

Hi

Here is one side.

https://www.ebay.it/itm/Fanalino-Anteriore-Sinistro-Trasparente-Siem-8799-Lancia-Beta-Coupe-auto-depoca-/324120822985 (https://www.ebay.it/itm/Fanalino-Anteriore-Sinistro-Trasparente-Siem-8799-Lancia-Beta-Coupe-auto-depoca-/324120822985)

This is complete light from other side.

https://www.ebay.it/itm/FRECCIA-FANALINO-ANTERIORE-FRONT-INDICATOR-SIEM-8710-LANCIA-BETA-COUPE-HPE-/192513089891 (https://www.ebay.it/itm/FRECCIA-FANALINO-ANTERIORE-FRONT-INDICATOR-SIEM-8710-LANCIA-BETA-COUPE-HPE-/192513089891)

Peter



Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: betaveloce on October 16, 2020, 10:34:38 AM
Enjoy if you are one of the few that follow this.

By the way, I think lots of us are following your excellent work, Eric, but we're not always reacting  ;)


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: peteracs on October 16, 2020, 10:50:49 AM
Thirty years into Betas and I never knew those lenses were handed   ;D
(but on closer inspection, the later ones, like the ones that Eric has, are identical left and right  :D)
Beta-Coupe-auto-depoca-/324120822985[/url]

The originals were Siem ones and both the lens and body are handed from what I have on mine, however these are made by Altissimo, so maybe the same both sides?

Peter


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mangocrazy on October 16, 2020, 03:41:23 PM
Tremendous quality work as ever, Eric. The engine bay is immaculate, and I can tell the extra wiring that's been added by the size of the cable bundles... :D  What radiator are you using? Is it an off the shelf item or fabricated to your specifications? I sympathise as regards the plummetting temperatures; I've just come back from the south of France and even there it's getting a bit chilly.


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mtulloch on October 19, 2020, 09:23:06 PM
Hi

Here is one side.

https://www.ebay.it/itm/Fanalino-Anteriore-Sinistro-Trasparente-Siem-8799-Lancia-Beta-Coupe-auto-depoca-/324120822985 (https://www.ebay.it/itm/Fanalino-Anteriore-Sinistro-Trasparente-Siem-8799-Lancia-Beta-Coupe-auto-depoca-/324120822985)

This is complete light from other side.

https://www.ebay.it/itm/FRECCIA-FANALINO-ANTERIORE-FRONT-INDICATOR-SIEM-8710-LANCIA-BETA-COUPE-HPE-/192513089891 (https://www.ebay.it/itm/FRECCIA-FANALINO-ANTERIORE-FRONT-INDICATOR-SIEM-8710-LANCIA-BETA-COUPE-HPE-/192513089891)

Peter

Thanks for the heads up on these. They're nice but they're not £100 nice!


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: peteracs on October 19, 2020, 10:15:45 PM
Hi

That would be my view, though luckily I managed to salvage the lights I already had. Also trying not to spend too much more before I get the car into a MOTíable state...

Peter


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on October 20, 2020, 04:49:27 PM
Hi Graham

That is a custom radiator with a thicker hi-efficiency core. As I am going for more than double factory power this and the Setrab oil cooler had to be carefully specified. I have 3 holes in the lower cross member for the studs on the radiator to sit in rubber grommets. The fans are curved blade ones from Car builder solutions I proved work really well on the Montecarlo with the fully loaded in hot weather trip over the Alps to Turin. You will note no cable tie things stuck through the radiator core. I think they strain the tubes promoting radiator failure.

Eric   


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on October 23, 2020, 06:05:50 PM
A little more progress in pictures
(http://[img])[/img]


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on October 23, 2020, 06:08:15 PM
Central Locking for the Alarm Installation with water proof connectors and wires back to the cabin.
(http://[img])[/img]


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on October 23, 2020, 06:09:34 PM
Central Locking connections
(http://[img])[/img]


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on October 23, 2020, 06:13:08 PM
Fun with Plywood Door Backings. This is a lot more complicated than it should be thanks to the wobbly patterns and custom metal work!
(http://[img])[/img]


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mangocrazy on October 25, 2020, 12:58:43 PM
Thanks for the rad info - double the original power certainly calls for seriously uprated heat dissipation. I like the liberal application of Dynamat everywhere - should keep unwanted resonances to a minimum. What is the thickness of the mat you're using?


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on October 25, 2020, 03:26:49 PM
I am using Superlight Dynamat on the doors boot and bonnet and Dynamat extreme on the main body shell. I did use some Fat Mat but found it even more horrible to work with and it is just not as good at the job anyway.

Superlight is thinner and importantly lighter. If I make the boot heavy the springs will no longer work. The Bonnet will have some foam added and the liner made by Mark Wastnidge. I hope I can use my right foot to choose noise when I want it.

Eric   


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on November 11, 2020, 12:12:08 PM
Some More minor progress!

(http://[img])[/img]


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on November 11, 2020, 12:14:37 PM
And a couple more incredibly slow bits of progress!
(http://[img])[/img]


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on November 11, 2020, 12:19:08 PM
I am now trying to get the brackets and mounts made that need holes in the shell before it goes back to the body shop for paint fixes and making the rear bumper over the very cold winter months. I definitely under estimated how long this would take and continue to find parts I thought were good to go that need work or replacement to be worth using. Perhaps I would be better not using my glasses!

Enjoy

Eric


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: HFStuart on November 11, 2020, 10:32:14 PM
Doesn't it always? At least you've got to the putting back together stage!


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: SPIT TC on November 14, 2020, 06:26:20 PM
You certainly are not short of talent Eric !


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on November 15, 2020, 09:58:26 AM
Thank you for the compliment. Sadly I frequently find myself running out of talent and have to remind myself I do this for the challenge of learning new skills and making a great car into an amazing car.

Every mistake is an opportunity to learn so I get a lot of opportunities to learn!

I share this stuff so others can take whatever helps them make their car just a little bit better, more fun or simply more reliable.

Eric


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: HFStuart on November 15, 2020, 09:38:44 PM
Eric,

I've read before that the hubs on PS cars are different. Do you know how they are different?


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on November 16, 2020, 09:46:46 AM
Hi Stuart

The PS hubs have larger conical holes to accommodate the larger PS Track Rod. They are also a physically beefed up casting which is hard to spot until you put them side by side with early no PS. Maybe late generation non PS hubs are the same casting with a smaller hole?

They do have a part number in the casting.

Eric


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonTB on November 19, 2020, 08:15:22 PM
I think you will be easily surpassing an 'alfaholics' type build, just looks amazing, another bench mark like your Monte!

More power to yer elbows!!!


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on November 27, 2020, 07:09:08 PM
So a major day in the build I have working brakes! This is with a front right back left and front left back right X pattern split and a twin channel (group n) AP Bias valve. I have copied the Integrale set up with the X split as the Master Cylinder is basically the same. But not used the Integrale twin channel rear bias valve linked to the rear suspension.

The Bias valve is there to dial down the rear brakes in emergency braking as weight shifts forward. By using an adjustable item I can reach from the engine bay I can dial in more or less rear braking to balance out the larger 284 vented front discs and 6 piston calipers. I am using Ferodo DS2500 front Pads and Tarox rears.

It was a huge relief to bleed the brakes and have sensible pedal travel as the design model said I would. Obviously this is without the servo assistance and the travel reduction from pads bedded into discs. Road tests will have to wait for a working engine.

A few pictures. (http://[img])[/img] 


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on November 27, 2020, 07:17:21 PM
A bit of bracket fabrication lets me fit the Fuel pressure regulator and hold the radiator in place tipped forward under the front cross member. I have now made the fuse box mounting brackets and the radiator box side panels but took no photos. Next it is the new Fuel hard lines through the cabin and the car goes back to the body shop whilst I muck about with fitting the new hood to the frame lining the Targa roofs and making number plate mounts in a warm workshop. I hate working on cars in winter temperatures!

(http://[img])[/img]   


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mtulloch on November 27, 2020, 09:11:14 PM
I've a couple of questions;

Where did you get the radiator & fan?
Where did you source the plastic captive nuts?

How much were those parts?

Thanks.


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: Nigel on November 28, 2020, 12:00:44 AM
Really great work Eric on what is unique.

Quite different to others who build concours examples, and equally dissimilar
to projects like mine.

We are all in it for the passion of Betas, but by so many, sometimes conflicting, methods.
I'm occasionally embarrassed by what I do to mine, but reality is, "it's mine, and i'll do
what I want!"

Nigel


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on November 28, 2020, 10:53:07 AM
Hi Nigel

Fancy engineering wastes valuable driving time so doing what works cheaply and let's you use your Beta reliably is a smart move. I know what let down my previous high performance Beta Spider and it was a very good car sold to Terry Wood in de-tuned form, but still more powerful than standard.

I know I will have more than double factory power so have tried to build in the right suspension, brakes and cooling. Other mods are for reliability, comfort or just removing things that annoyed me (properly mounted rear speakers).

Enjoy driving your car. I can only dream for now!

Eric   


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on November 28, 2020, 11:20:04 AM
The Fans front and rear come from Car Builder Solutions as I found their performance excellent on the Montecarlo with a low profile design. There is a Setrab 235 x 19 oil cooler mounted to the front of the radiator and I use 3 large studs on the base of the radiator in holes with rubber grommets in the lower cross member. I have 5mm Rivnuts fitted to the radiator top rail to mount the fixing plate which I designed in cereal box before making the alloy version.

I am using twin fans via one of the 2 new relay and fuse boxes because I want instant control of temperature spikes. Probably overkill for most people, but experience borrowed from the Monte along with running the water pump faster by using the Monte water pump pulley and the Beta Crank pulley.

I supplied a tatty VX radiator, sketched dimensioned design, fans and oil cooler to Concept Racing near Ross on Wye before discussing the power change and core options. The receipt is buried but somewhere in the region of £350. I might have found a cheaper supplier but I am happy with the quality of this critical part. I spent months looking at Radiators from other cars, but was frustrated by their poor fit.

The Nylon blocks used all over the car have some cross over to parts used by Land Rover. But mine came from Poland following a tip from Fred's documented restoration on this forum.      https://auto-spinka.pl/

I found I could source new screw in Nylon Blocks for the whole car and the Montecarlo a god send for a car that was completely stripped. I also sourced brake line clips and some other random clips from Bresco.   

Enjoy

Eric


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on November 29, 2020, 01:39:37 PM
Fuel Hard Lines prove that 7.9mm 5/16 is not the same as 8.00mm when it comes to the fittings for the hardline. My 5/16 compression to A/N -06 fittings (those Goodrich type screw together fittings) did not want to go on my very nice 8.00 aluminum black coated hard line.
After a healthy dose of swearing and refusing to pay motorsport Demon Thieves prices for 8.00mm Krontec fittings I bought a 7 meter plus  coil of 5/16 copper nickel for less than 2 of the 4 needed fittings.

I was dreading this job and pipe that was harder to bend added to the fun. At least at over 120 bar tested rating I should be safe with the 7Bar max with Fuel Injection. I used Compression fittings because 37 degree single flares tube nuts and sleeves would be tricky to do in the space for me. I am using fitting from Torques on ebay which are at least as well made as Goodrich, Earls, Fraggola etc BUT way cheaper. I also use push on hose ends which are rated to 400PSI so I can build custom plumbing and simply unbolt it for servicing.

The Pipe clips came from Bresco.

(http://[img])[/img]

 


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on November 29, 2020, 01:42:50 PM
NB the single brake pedal pedal box is a lash up to test the brakes and fit a steering column until I have the car back for the final build.



Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mangocrazy on November 29, 2020, 02:39:58 PM
I'm seriously impressed with the levels of perseverance and ingenuity on display here, Eric. You're basically rebuilding a car from scratch and adding in enhancements, major upgrades and new features that the original designers would never have contemplated. It's all breaking new ground in Beta ownership and that's never easy, simple or cheap.

Bon courage, mon ami...


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mtulloch on November 29, 2020, 04:47:18 PM
The Fans front and rear come from Car Builder Solutions as I found their performance excellent on the Montecarlo with a low profile design. There is a Setrab 235 x 19 oil cooler mounted to the front of the radiator and I use 3 large studs on the base of the radiator in holes with rubber grommets in the lower cross member. I have 5mm Rivnuts fitted to the radiator top rail to mount the fixing plate which I designed in cereal box before making the alloy version.

I am using twin fans via one of the 2 new relay and fuse boxes because I want instant control of temperature spikes. Probably overkill for most people, but experience borrowed from the Monte along with running the water pump faster by using the Monte water pump pulley and the Beta Crank pulley.

I supplied a tatty VX radiator, sketched dimensioned design, fans and oil cooler to Concept Racing near Ross on Wye before discussing the power change and core options. The receipt is buried but somewhere in the region of £350. I might have found a cheaper supplier but I am happy with the quality of this critical part. I spent months looking at Radiators from other cars, but was frustrated by their poor fit.

The Nylon blocks used all over the car have some cross over to parts used by Land Rover. But mine came from Poland following a tip from Fred's documented restoration on this forum.      https://auto-spinka.pl/

I found I could source new screw in Nylon Blocks for the whole car and the Montecarlo a god send for a car that was completely stripped. I also sourced brake line clips and some other random clips from Bresco.   

Enjoy

Eric

Thanks for that, £275 + vat is what a local firm wants to re-core the original!


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mangocrazy on November 29, 2020, 06:52:59 PM
The Fans front and rear come from Car Builder Solutions as I found their performance excellent on the Montecarlo with a low profile design. There is a Setrab 235 x 19 oil cooler mounted to the front of the radiator and I use 3 large studs on the base of the radiator in holes with rubber grommets in the lower cross member. I have 5mm Rivnuts fitted to the radiator top rail to mount the fixing plate which I designed in cereal box before making the alloy version.

I am using twin fans via one of the 2 new relay and fuse boxes because I want instant control of temperature spikes. Probably overkill for most people, but experience borrowed from the Monte along with running the water pump faster by using the Monte water pump pulley and the Beta Crank pulley.

I supplied a tatty VX radiator, sketched dimensioned design, fans and oil cooler to Concept Racing near Ross on Wye before discussing the power change and core options. The receipt is buried but somewhere in the region of £350. I might have found a cheaper supplier but I am happy with the quality of this critical part. I spent months looking at Radiators from other cars, but was frustrated by their poor fit.

Hi Eric, you must realise by now that all your posts of this nature elicit countless who/why/what/where/how questions. Here are mine... :D

1. Is the bespoke radiator the same size as the VX. If not, which of the dimensions have changed?

2. Does the bespoke radiator use any of the OE radiator fixing points, or are they all new?

3. Is the front fan fitted on the opposite end of the radiator to the back fan?

4. What take off points on the engine do you use for flow/return lines for the oil cooler? Are they all connected from the oil filter housing?

Apologies if answers to these questions appear obvious...


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on November 30, 2020, 01:59:53 PM
Hi Graham

Some answers, but lacking precision

The radiator is slightly wider than the VX item based on making new flat radiator box ends and getting the maximum cooling. It also has a thicker high efficiency core. I included a drain, air bleed and 22mm boss for the OE style fan switch.

I ignored the OE lower fixings because I wanted it as far forward as possible for clearance for the remote filter and Accusump fittings. By using 3 pegs on the base into grommets I had to drill 3 holes and fit the grommets to tilt the radiator forward so I could use a flat plate fixing at the top.

3 Yes

4 I use a Torques sandwich plate AN10 take off plate to use their alloy AN10 fittings for push on hose. I have a remote filter head from Toques to be fitted in front of the starter motor and have to make a fixing for the oil temp thermostat. The Accusump is fitted vertically on the left chassis leg having removed the extra unused engine shock absorber mount. Fun and games with getting the top gauge and bottom outlets at 90 degrees but otherwise it fits neatly.  I have yet to finish this plumbing because it needs the engine and gearbox installed to get right.

PS I went to AN10 from BSP fittings because they are lighter than the typical BSP steel parts and cheaper. I will never use Think Automotive again after receiving a low quality remote filter head for the Monte that gave horrible problems.

Eric     


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mangocrazy on December 01, 2020, 02:19:46 PM
Hi Eric,

Many thanks for that. When the time comes I may very well use the same people as yourself for a replacement radiator. My requirements won't be as severe as yours, but as the car will live in the Soth of France I think an uprated radiator with good fans makes complete sense.

I suspect you may assumed more knowledge on my part than I actually have when replying to my question about oil cooler take-offs. I have no practical experience with oil coolers and was wondering whether there are points on a standard Beta block where the oil cooler flow and return lines bolt up to, or whether some modifications are required to enable fitment of an oil cooler. If modifications are needed then it would be sensible to make them with the engine out of the car. My oil filter housing is a standard carb Beta unit with a vertical oil filter spigot.


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on December 01, 2020, 03:54:31 PM
Hi Graham. I recommend looking at GC's first book on oil cooler layout and components. I have:
Oil Cooler - 19 row 235 matrix by Setrab with AN -10 male fittings
Remote Oil Filter Block with 4 AN-10 ports 1 of which takes the Accusump
External Oil thermostat with 4x AN 10 ports
Oil filter take off plate and cap that goes in place of the oil filter on the engine.

I use alloy push on fittings and aeroquip push on hose. You heat it in boiling water before pushing it onto the fitting immediately. It will only come off by being cut off. You make line patterns by wasting old garden hose on the push on fittings until you are happy you have it right for the expensive hose.   

NB AN is Army and Navy from Vietnam war helicopter fittings -3 is small -12 is large. Typically -6 for fuel lines -3 for Brake lines - 4 for clutch lines and -10 for oil lines. buy the hose for the system being used or suffer later. 

(http://[img])[/img]


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on December 01, 2020, 04:00:35 PM
The Oil Filter take off block has a sensor port for oil temperature and the 2 AN -10 fittings with silver gaffer tape currently. It can be turned 360 degrees so we will see where it ends up when I plumb it. You also see how I am feeding the OE gauges and the ECU. The tall silver sensor is an AEM pressure sensor for the ECU and is actually accurate which the OEM items definitely are not.

Enjoy

Eric


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mangocrazy on December 01, 2020, 09:05:43 PM
NB AN is Army and Navy from Vietnam war helicopter fittings -3 is small -12 is large. Typically -6 for fuel lines -3 for Brake lines - 4 for clutch lines and -10 for oil lines. buy the hose for the system being used or suffer later. 
Ah yes, the 'dash' system. Took me a while to figure out but now makes sense. Where did you get your oil filter take off plate and cap from? Thanks for the info on the hose and fittings. Measure many times, cut once...

I keep forgetting about the original GC book. It's a treasure trove of information.


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: markw on December 04, 2020, 03:26:11 AM
Fantastic work, Eric. I don't know if you've mentioned this before, but what flywheel/clutch combination are you using on your two volumex drivetrains? Do you know what weight flywheel you have used on each?


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on December 04, 2020, 10:13:26 AM
Hi Mark

On this car the flywheel is a GC lightened and balanced OE VX flywheel. I do not have the weight to hand it is in the spec file. The VX flywheel takes 8V Integrale clutches which gives lots of options. On the VMET (Abarth Volumetrico) Montecarlo I have a Helix Steel Flywheel to VX/ 8V Integrale size and Helix Clutch. Both with new bolts because flying circular saws look better in cartoons!

Eric   


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on December 04, 2020, 06:10:10 PM
Credit Due to Graham for an idea I have copied to avoid fun with an engine in a padded wheel barrow as transport to the car. I want the engine off the stand and on easily moved wheels for easier workshop use and transport when I am ready. I have used an industrial crate shifting dolly that is a 600 x 400 frame I can just drop my engine cradle into or use for shifting crates around at a later date. Made from an old wardrobe door, left over bits of plywood and some old framing timber.

  (http://)


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on December 04, 2020, 06:21:11 PM
Hi Graham

The Take Off Plate and Cover come from the Torques shop on ebay  https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/Torques-U-K?_trksid=p2047675.l2563 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/Torques-U-K?_trksid=p2047675.l2563)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Torques-Oil-Sandwich-Plate-Take-Off-System-Kit-In-BLACK-AN-10-JIC-10-3-4x16-UNF/360783211953?hash=item54005aedb1:g:2YIAAMXQBNlRf6vQ (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Torques-Oil-Sandwich-Plate-Take-Off-System-Kit-In-BLACK-AN-10-JIC-10-3-4x16-UNF/360783211953?hash=item54005aedb1:g:2YIAAMXQBNlRf6vQ)

NB you might want the thermostatic one if you are not running an Accusump. If in doubt sketch the layout with flow arrows. 

Remote Filter Head

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Torques-Remote-Billet-Aluminium-Oil-Filter-Housing-BLACK-AN-10-JIC-10-3-4-UNF/360780408901?hash=item5400302845:g:E8QAAMXQY8JRhKYT (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Torques-Remote-Billet-Aluminium-Oil-Filter-Housing-BLACK-AN-10-JIC-10-3-4-UNF/360780408901?hash=item5400302845:g:E8QAAMXQY8JRhKYT)

The range on their shop solves most problems!



Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on December 08, 2020, 05:19:48 PM
Engine in a Box with wheels.
(http://)


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: betabuoy on December 08, 2020, 07:02:43 PM
Beautiful


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mangocrazy on December 12, 2020, 05:25:36 PM
Nice one, Eric! Your dolly/padded wheel barrow is carrying a lot more weight than mine! That engine looks positively delicious and very happy in its new mobile home,

Thanks for the links to the Torques fittings. I'm sure I can find what I need from their range of fitments.


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on December 23, 2020, 06:53:35 PM
A major hood frame strip, sandblast, Epoxy Powder coat, New Webbing straps, Stainless bolts and screws. Plus NOS catches painted and I am nearly ready to fit the new Mohair hood.
Webbing Buckles and Straps provided great and cheap new straps. Getting the old powder coat off was tricky as Sandblasting would bounce off without some stripping. A blow torch scrapper mask and plenty of ventilation and most of it was scrapped off allowing rust treatment and sandblasting.

One of my hood frames only had the hood holding the rust together frankly and one of the hold down bars was more rust than bar. Amazing that the factory did not even paint inside the hood frame box section never mind rust proof it. Mine has the Dinitrol treatment.

(http://[img])[/img]   


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on December 23, 2020, 06:59:30 PM
A little Targa Roof sound proofing with 4 mm foam under new sound cloth means I can now be a dress maker with my new pattern skills. I have 1 painted roof and 1 OE texture with a lot of hours spent getting the catches and clamps fit to use. This included re-surfacing the leather and re-building the clamp pads. (http://[img])[/img] 


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: Nigel on December 23, 2020, 08:36:07 PM
Now that's work I'd be very scared of, especially the frame!

Thanks for your comments on mine Eric.

Nigel


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: peteracs on December 23, 2020, 10:10:20 PM
Very nice work, makes mine look decidedly second hand.

Peter


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mangocrazy on December 24, 2020, 10:35:56 AM
Top work, Eric. I sympathise with you in getting old powder coat off. Commercial places don't even try to blast it off initially, they just dip it in some 'not available to the general public' brew, then blast. And modern paint strippers are pretty poor things, as the major active ingredient has been removed.

Very much liking the additional layer of soundproofing and the incredible attention to detail. I'll be using your work as a template when mine finally gets done.


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: peteracs on December 24, 2020, 10:52:24 AM
Hi Eric

I would be interested to know the measurement between the two rivets on the straps if you find a minute.

Thanks

Peter


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on December 24, 2020, 01:55:27 PM
Hi Peter will do. But please be aware I copied the dimension from a hood that came off the car and have a lingering concern over if it is right that I will not put to bed until I fit the hood to the car and it goes on neatly or has to be stripped down again.

Eric


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on December 24, 2020, 04:33:09 PM
Today I mostly fitted the new undercar exhaust heat shield. It will have an additional front section going up over the rack but I want the wiring in place before I make that one.

(http://[img])[/img]

Now where is that Christmas Beer!


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: peteracs on December 24, 2020, 04:39:03 PM
Hi Peter will do. But please be aware I copied the dimension from a hood that came off the car and have a lingering concern over if it is right that I will not put to bed until I fit the hood to the car and it goes on neatly or has to be stripped down again.

Eric

Hi Eric

That is ok, my straps are part of the hood and I was thinking of wrapping the strap around the middle bar with some sort of adjustment rather than fixing in place. Maybe a silly idea, but will give it a try.

Peter


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on December 24, 2020, 06:07:08 PM
Hi Peter 5.5cm rivet center to rivet center on the straps. I could drill them out later if needed. I have clamps on my hold down bar not buckles so I can adjust the tension without buckle holes.

Eric


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: peteracs on December 24, 2020, 06:12:13 PM
Hi Eric

Thanks. I have a strap top and bottom and was going to use a buckle I saw on one of the NEC cars a couple of years ago which had a simple snap together arrangement, but you need to secure the strap using a wrap back method rather than with a pin arrangement as original, hard to describe, but will post a photo when I get around to it assuming it is successful.

Peter


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on December 31, 2020, 05:33:50 PM
Hi Peter I deleted the Buckle because it has no adjustment and makes an ugly mess of the strap. Pictures to explain.

(http://[img])[/img]


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: peteracs on December 31, 2020, 06:20:05 PM
Hi Eric

So you still have a strap top and bottom and it is adjusted via the plastic clip?

Neat and stealthy solution, I may look to go that way as nothing yet fitted.

Peter


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on January 01, 2021, 09:59:48 AM
Hi Peter Yes from Webbing Buckles & Straps online cheap and easy. I just hope I have the length right from copying the battered remains of the 3 hoods I stripped. I use stainless pop rivets to try to reduce corrosion. 


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on January 03, 2021, 04:13:05 PM
I have used 2 sets of Land Rover Discovery Door switches keeping the interior light and alarm wiring separate so there is no possible interference for the alarm.
I have also modified the Battery Tray with 2 steel strips to mount the custom oil catch tank currently being made by Alloy Racing Fabrications. The battery tray is sandblasted but not yet painted with Eastwood Extreme Satin Black paint. Minor victories on the way to one day driving the car!
(http://[img])[/img]   


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mangocrazy on January 06, 2021, 01:11:21 PM
Another vote here for replacing the rusty old cross head door mounting countersunk screws with stainless cap head items (and plenty of Copaslip). I must admit my heart was in my mouth when removing the old ones with a windy gun and Philips bit, but they all came out OK...


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on January 22, 2021, 07:25:31 PM
Hi Graham Thanks for the vote I forgot about the screws!

I have the oil catch tank back from being cereal box to alloy. This goes in place of the screen wash plastic tank alongside the battery. I have worked hard to get enough capacity to pass tank rules whilst making it fit the space. Now to carefully fit it to the battery tray!

(http://[img])[/img] 


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: squiglyzigly on January 23, 2021, 10:25:18 AM
Eric,
Never seen a catch tank in the place of the battery tray washer bottle. Why hasnít it been done before? Perfect position.
Curious about the tank rules for capacity. Is that a track day requirement or a calculation based on engine capacity/oil sump capacity?

Another nice piece of work

Ian



Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on January 23, 2021, 10:57:06 AM
Hi Ian

A lot of head scratching has gone into where to put things and I needed to use every space with the strut brace, brake bias valve, Accusump extra fuse boxes, FI regulator etc. 1L is the typical minimum for track day scrutineers. I think I have 1.17L but will actually measure it with some water later today.

Using an old beer or coke tin is no longer well thought of. I have used old gear oil plastic bottles and cycle drink bottles with plumbing fittings before, but decided doing it neatly might be better all round. Lots of oil catch tanks for sale, but they are sized too small for the VX. The VX has a BIG breather needing 22mm ID pipe where as the 2000 Carb only needs 19mm. With 19mm I would have used A/N 12 fittings and could buy a cheap round catch tank that would not fit very neatly next to the battery.

I would have gone with 2x 45% outlets, but wanted to be sure to clear the Accusump.

NB Oil catch Tanks need to be higher than the breather so oil vapour condensates and drain back as much as possible. Inside my tank it is not straight through. The pipes cross so the vapour does not just blow straight through.

Eric 

   


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on January 23, 2021, 12:48:02 PM
I just tested this with 1 Litre of water and there is room to spare with no overflow. So even though it looks small it does the job.

Eric


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: squiglyzigly on January 24, 2021, 02:25:53 PM
Are catch tanks mandatory for track days now?

Itís been a while


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on January 24, 2021, 04:01:26 PM
Yes if the oil breather is not going back to the airbox on OE fashion. They just do not want oil on the track. For road purposes I could have just used a long curved pipe, but then the oil vapour and condensate would get blown over the underside of the car. As it is I will keep the outlet any from the brake discs and exhaust.

(http://[img])[/img]


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mangocrazy on January 28, 2021, 02:02:50 PM
That looks great, Eric. Very nicely thought out and executed piece of work. For non track day (i.e. road) use would the OE solution suffice? Although how I'm going to make that work with twin DCOE 45's and non-OE air filtration will be interesting. Perhaps a catch tank is a better idea for me as well. As usual, change one thing upstream and downstream at least three more things will require modificaion.


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on January 28, 2021, 04:22:54 PM
Hi Graham

You could hook a breather pipe to the back plate of the air box for the twin DCOEs, but the oil vapor pollutes the fuel air mixture and creates a brown varnish deposit on your carbs so a catch tank is best IMHO. Let me know if the breather OD on your engine is 19mm? If so I have a ready solution for you I was going to use before realizing the VX breather is bigger so I would need a custom solution.

Eric


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mangocrazy on January 28, 2021, 07:26:39 PM
Hi Eric, many thanks for the offer. The more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to do it properly and use a catch tank. Recirculating oil blowby through the carbs doesn't sound a great idea to me. I've no desire to clog up my nice new DCOEs with oil vapour. Not sure what I should be measuring, but I have the OE oil breather to hand and the spigots on that are 25mm o.d. and 18mm i.d. I can't measure the crankcase outlet on the engine as it's in Stafford and I'm in Sheffield.


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mangocrazy on February 20, 2021, 06:21:07 PM
Having looked closer at my oil breather, the external spigots are 23mm o.d. and 24mm o.d. not as stated. But having re-read your earlier post it's the spigot on the cylinder block I should be measuring. I'm hopeful of getting back to Stafford in the first week of March so will measure up then. Does your Mk. 1 solution still use the OE oil breather, or does the block spigot vent straight to the catch tank?


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on February 21, 2021, 09:55:49 AM
Hi Graham

My Mk1 uses the Oil breather outlet. You would only go direct to block with a dry sump set up The alloy item does the initial job of re-directing oil back to the sump and we want as much oil as possible to stay where it belongs. Catch tanks on sound engines mostly have water and some emulsified oil in them.

Eric


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: squiglyzigly on February 21, 2021, 10:26:51 AM
There is another slightly alternative option to the catch-tank route.
I chose to try something a little different due to my Asthma. In later years I became sensitive to oil and fuel residues so I sought a different path to manage and improve the crankcase breather management, not wanting any kind of open venting. Modern cars have had improved vapour management imposed on them over the years so it seemed an obvious route.
Most of us notice the oil residue and emulsified water that Eric mentions in the breather pipe where in enters the air filter housing. On higher Millage cars with a bit more Ďblow byí on the piston rings it starts to become a little oily and a lot more mist will be ingested to lower performance. As Eric has mentioned before this costs some power as it is diluting the fresh oxygen rich air the engine would rather breathe.
Both my cars now have a second oil breather/separator between the original alloy block mounted unit and the carb intake/air filter. I used a Land Rover TDi part and it has a lower drain pipe that I have draining back into the sump. Yes I had to weld a union on the sump for this but the result is pretty much zero oil or water residue exiting the breather back into the intake.
Now this is never going to be as good as a catch tank in performance terms but it is a good step forward from the standard single stage breather.

Ian



Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on February 21, 2021, 10:46:58 AM
Hi Ian

An interesting approach and the return could be done via a steel blanking plate with a pipe in place of the redundant manual fuel pump. This is how the Volumetrico Supercharger oil return was done originally. For many people this can be fairly easy to make and fit and leaves the tricky to remove sump un-disturbed.  Probably an old water rail spigot flat steel plate and a Mig.

Enjoy.

My catch tank is staying because it allows free breathing for the engine and also pleases scrutineers at track days.   


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mangocrazy on February 21, 2021, 01:12:45 PM
That's an interesting idea - a two stage breather. And I very much like Eric's suggestion of using the old fuel pump mounting point as a return route for the oil.

Having said that, the simplicity and visibility of a catch tank appeals so if you want to pm me with further details and a price Eric, I'm very interested.


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: Nigel on February 21, 2021, 07:50:49 PM
Sorry to hijack Erics thread,

Ian, is this separator close to what you used?

Thanks, Nigel






Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on March 04, 2021, 07:11:41 PM
For my latest amusement I have been cleaning and painting arch shields with some added Frankenstein joining of bits from several arch shields to make a better drivers side front section. This is the one where generations of mechanics have tugged it before removing the 2 fixing screws to the subframe. I would love better arch shields but will put them on the maybe one day list.

Eric

Too dull for photos sorry


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: squiglyzigly on March 11, 2021, 07:34:20 PM
Sorry to hijack Erics thread,

Ian, is this separator close to what you used?

Thanks, Nigel






Thatís the one.


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: peteracs on March 11, 2021, 09:45:11 PM
Hi Eric

Not had chance to look, but I do have some spare wheel arch protectors, but cannot remember which side they fit. Will do so over next few days.

Peter


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on March 12, 2021, 10:07:10 AM
Hi Peter

Thank you. Please be aware it is the late version fitted to the VX & IE I am looking for not the earlier part metal part plastic assembly.

Eric


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: john930 on March 13, 2021, 07:28:34 AM
Hi Eric
What are the specifications of your gaz gasmatic  coil overs. Can these be ordered from gaz directly. Are they bolt in. I have a 1980 spider I am restoring.

Thanks

John


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on March 13, 2021, 03:18:29 PM
Hi John

I do not know if Gaz have kept the design work and would sell directly. They would certainly need rear struts with sound lower sections because these were transferred. I took hubs wheels struts and top mounts to them and had them custom made probably 7 years ago. I used front Beta Top mounts on the rear and Ford Escort Racing multi adjustable front top mounts. I have a note of the spring rates somewhere and spent some time working out what to start with. The units are Gazmatic Gold with 14 clicks of adjustment for damping and re-bound. I use a similar Leda set up on my Montecarlo. They are in a totally different league for both ride and handling.

Eric
PS John Lyons is the design engineer at Gaz formerly he was at Leda.   


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: peteracs on April 19, 2021, 04:59:57 PM
Hi Peter 5.5cm rivet center to rivet center on the straps. I could drill them out later if needed. I have clamps on my hold down bar not buckles so I can adjust the tension without buckle holes.

Eric

Hi Eric

Just revisiting this, I suspect that 5.5cm is incorrrect looking at your photos and measuring my bars where they probably should fit. Could you recheck please?

Thanks

Peter


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on June 13, 2021, 07:42:59 PM
Just to say it is back from the Paint shop and this time has actually been painted. I have nearly bolted back on enough to make forward progress again.

Cheers

Eric


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: Nigel on June 13, 2021, 10:05:29 PM
Glad to read this Eric.
It must have been so frustrating the time it took.

Looking forward to seeing some more pics as you build it up.

Best wishes!
N


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mangocrazy on June 14, 2021, 09:07:12 AM
Looking forward to seeing some pics! I can imagine the frustration...

Graham


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on July 06, 2021, 08:23:08 PM
Some photos of VERY slow progress


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on July 06, 2021, 08:25:50 PM
Battery wiring challenge and custom radiator side air shields


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mangocrazy on July 07, 2021, 03:35:42 PM
Wow. That looks to be a top quality paint job. Is that an OE Lancia colour? When I had my light metallic blue Spider repainted I actually used a Mercedes colour that was close to original but had a bit more zing. Whatever shade/colour it is, it looks fabulous.

Liking the heavy duty crimpers. They won't take any prisoners.


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on July 08, 2021, 05:58:16 PM
Hi Graham

The Colour should be very close to the original. It was done by the kind loan of a Petrol Filler flap being scanned before test spray outs and some adjustments. Some serious effort went into panel fit and match given NOS Coupe doors and front wings converted to Spider items and a bonnet made from the perfect parts of items rusted in different places.   

My latest annoyance is the sill trim rubbers (brand new from Italy) have a different profile shape that does not match the end caps like the original. Of course my originals have shrunk and gained overspray and deep scuffs.

Working out the large amp power supply and signal routing for the Amp in the boot has seen some head scratching to keep power away from signal wires. I am using 2 pairs of decent QED shielded RCA cables and Cambridge Audio silver speaker wires to 4 Rainbow 50 watt RMS speakers with good sensitivity and a Focal amp with decent signal to noise. So hopefully I will sound crisp through the useful volume range eventually.

Making good speakers fit is a job in it's own right because they come with big driver magnets.

Eric       


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mangocrazy on July 08, 2021, 07:49:47 PM
Glad to see you're fighting the good fight and trying to turn back time. It will be a sight to see (and hear!) when finished. In car audio is always an uphill struggle - everything mitigates against good sound quality, but I'm sure yours will sound crisp and clean. Most audio uses cheap bell wire for interconnects, so you've certainly got that covered. And all the noise damping you've put in the car will pay dividends there.

Know what you mean about powerful speakers and their propensity to attach themselves immovably to any steel in the vicinity...


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: HFStuart on August 02, 2021, 06:45:27 PM
My latest annoyance is the sill trim rubbers (brand new from Italy) have a different profile shape that does not match the end caps like the original. Of course my originals have shrunk and gained overspray and deep scuffs.
      

Eric, I've been off the forum for a bit so late to this but on the side rubbers if you happen to have three they will cut and glue with an almost invisible join using most 'superglue' type adhesives. I was skeptical about gluing rubber under I worked for an industrial gas metering company  - all their O rings are cut and glued to size and working happily in high pressure gas terminals!


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on August 27, 2021, 10:02:43 AM
Hi Stuart

Thank you for the idea. Currently I can only find the rough 2 but definitely used to have more. Of course I might have given them away or binned them so the new ones in the wrong profile are staying for now.

Eric


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on September 20, 2021, 05:57:21 PM
So my slow painful progress includes an alarm switch and bracket for the boot which was surprisingly tricky. Also the front bumper complete with fog lights is fitted and I have fully labelled my extra fuse boxes before I fit them and start running extra wires around the car.
This saves epic confusion later I hope.




Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on September 20, 2021, 06:01:54 PM
I have been distracted by working out what I need and getting it to fit Electric Air Conditioning to my Montecarlo with credit due to Darren Cooksey for pioneering this one. I now know more about the difference in old to new AC systems than I really wanted to.


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on October 17, 2021, 05:57:32 PM
Today I fitted a NOS Complete Spider Lock Set I bought in a gamble purchase from Italy. For once I am delighted now If I can just find some Lancia logo key blanks I will get some extra keys cut. More wiring got done but nothing worth a photo.

I seam to have got very slow at wiring which has got to change if I am not to die of old age before the car works!

Eric 


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mangocrazy on October 18, 2021, 11:18:01 AM
I seam to have got very slow at wiring which has got to change if I am not to die of old age before the car works!

Eric 

It's because you are trying to do the best job possible without cutting any corners, I suspect. A quote from Oscar Wilde is appropriate here: 'I am a man of simple tastes; I am always satisfied with the very best'.

Graham  ;D


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on October 25, 2021, 03:10:45 PM
Some photos of the new extra fuse boxes now with spiral bind and super seal connectors. This is actually a big step towards really wiring in the extra stuff. You can see the Maxi fuse for the Amplifier and the AMP battery +VE power distribution block. Next I get the runs from the fuse box connections into the cabin and the NS Engine bay loom in. Time wasted on trying to work out why Lancia put a grey wire on the Heater switch Resistor that does not connect to anything in the cabin loom! I think maybe somewhere there is a version with a 3 speed fan switch?

   


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on October 25, 2021, 03:12:37 PM
And one more photo


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mangocrazy on October 25, 2021, 03:23:42 PM
Spotlessly immaculate work as usual, Eric. I cannot imagine my engine bay will ever look as pristine and well-organised as that. Will the new relay/fuse box entirely replace the OE Lancia item? And might I ask where you sourced it from, and whether the transfers to indicate function were supplied with the box or not?

I imagine there was a degree of trepidation when drilling the inner wing for the relay/fuse box mountings...? And is the item below the battery mounting a 12v live distribution point?


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on October 25, 2021, 06:28:54 PM
Hi Graham

The item below the Battery Tray is a Mega fuse for the Amplifier in the boot. It will be connected to Battery 12V . The Power distribution box is the 6 way item just in front of the Battery tray mounts. The new fuse boxes get +12V battery live from here as does the Amplifier. This stops the battery clamp looking like a Christmas tree of connections.

I still have the OE Fuse Box (a NOS item without burnt connectors or heat damaged internal wires). It no longer powers the fans.
My new fuse boxes support the FI Coils, Injectors, Drive by Wire Throttle, ECU power, HP Fuel Pump, Cruise Control, Shift Light, Starter Motor (protecting the OE switch), Accusump, ECU Fault light, Wipers top speed, Brake Lights (protect switch & signal ECU), Fans on lights and 2 x spare relay switch power.

For the symbols they come in sheets from either Pole Volt or Vehicle Wiring Products / eBay for labeling switches. I also used a Dymo label gun white on clear tapes.

The Fuse box /Relay boxes are modular click together items. I considered micro relays then realized with the gauge of wires I am using they would be a nightmare to wire.

A lot of head scratching went into where to put the fuse boxes and how to get the wires in and out of the cabin. I definitely hated drilling for the Rivnuts. NB I dip the Rivnuts in Dinitrol before fitting for a bit more peace of mind on rust.
Other people's cars always look cleaner to me because I know where all the mistakes are!

Eric           


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mangocrazy on October 25, 2021, 10:31:01 PM
Thanks for a comprehensive reply, Eric - much appreciated. From reading your list of relay-protected circuits I can understand why the OE relay/fuse box was inadequate for your needs. I too hate the battery +ve terminal post looking like a Christmas tree and will be doing something similar. I would have agonised at great length over drilling for the rivnuts on the inner wing... Have you ever used Wellnuts? They're similar to rivnuts but are a brass thread sheathed in rubber that squashes down to clamp but also provides a degree of flex and electrical isolation. They're used quite a lot on motorbikes where high frequency vibes are a killer.


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: squiglyzigly on October 26, 2021, 07:54:29 AM
Immaculate work Eric. Pushing the boundaries as always.
Itís always easy to underestimate how much planning goes into work of this level and only see the finished work.
I need to do a job like this on my VX coupe one day but not sure my sanity will survive the ordeal.

Ian