Lancia Beta Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: mat grant on June 07, 2019, 05:36:48 PM



Title: Beta coupe MOT fail - rear shock "worn bush"
Post by: mat grant on June 07, 2019, 05:36:48 PM
Hi all,

My 1984 Lancia beta 2000ie coupe went straight through the MOT last year, but this year it has failed on:

"Shock absorbers (sic) has an excessively worn bush offside rear upper"

Please can anyone point me in the direction of how to find a part/parts to fix this? Is the bush integral to the strut? Or is it a separate bush? Any answers or guidance gratefully received.

Thanks, Mat.



Title: Re: Beta coupe MOT fail - rear shock "worn bush"
Post by: rossocorsa on June 07, 2019, 08:03:27 PM
I can only assume that this means the strut top mount, the rubber bush is an integral part of the mounting. They can be found if you search the internet but can be scarce.


Title: Re: Beta coupe MOT fail - rear shock "worn bush"
Post by: WestonE on June 08, 2019, 08:42:12 AM
It could be the strut worn so the push rod is rocking in the casing. Ideally find a pair of rear struts and new top mounts and re-build them. Early struts have collars that can be unscrewed to change the insert. Beta Boyz parts used to do weld on collars to convert sealed struts to take cartridges.   


Title: Re: Beta coupe MOT fail - rear shock "worn bush"
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on June 08, 2019, 08:46:19 AM
These can deteriorate badly, but I'm surprised it leaves enough movement for a MOT fail. I'd get the MOT tester to point out exactly what they are unhappy with before buying any parts. I've had two top mounts fail over the years, the symptom on both occasions was that the car would 'shimmy' at the back end when driving in a straight line. With the first one, 30 years ago on an ie, the top of the shocker with the large nut  came completely free of the strut top.


Title: Re: Beta coupe MOT fail - rear shock "worn bush"
Post by: mat grant on June 08, 2019, 04:58:46 PM
Hi Guys, thanks for the replies - since posting i've done lots of trawling through the internet and found a parts diagram for the rear strut. I still haven't got my head round where there is scope for a deteriorated top bush, I'n guessing it means the large rubber part on top of the spring? Good suggestion to ask the MOT tester to describe what was wrong, trouble is the car is out of MOT now, so I can't take it back until it is booked for another test. So I'll have to just phone them on monday and hope they can remember.

Also not helping is the car lives in storage at the moment while my garage has been knocked down for a new garage / house extension, so it's difficult to get to. As I've done less than about 200 miles since the last MOT, I thought it would be ok, so it's annoying that it has failed.

Cheers, Mat.


Title: Re: Beta coupe MOT fail - rear shock "worn bush"
Post by: rossocorsa on June 09, 2019, 12:02:54 PM
The top mount that had 4 captive threads on top and locates the rod of the strut to the top of the strut tower, this has a metal outer then a moulded in rubber bush. The bush had probably detached or become worn/perished


Title: Re: Beta coupe MOT fail - rear shock "worn bush"
Post by: rossocorsa on June 09, 2019, 07:52:57 PM
https://www.amazon.co.uk/photos/share/aKyZFxNPFPneBeiqLhXjYp5d35fu3tglZTrn9N4b1LR (https://www.amazon.co.uk/photos/share/aKyZFxNPFPneBeiqLhXjYp5d35fu3tglZTrn9N4b1LR)


Title: Re: Beta coupe MOT fail - rear shock "worn bush"
Post by: mat grant on June 10, 2019, 04:52:57 PM
Hi

Thanks mr Rossocorsa for posting the parts diagram, that is useful.

i'll update if i get any progress. I phoned the garage (Halfords) today they said the MOT tester who did mine goes to lots of different garages, they don't know where he is or when he will be back - really helpful.

I won't be in a position to fix the car for a while unless i get a strong steer on what part is needed and am able to find it. Otherwise it is just going to sit on my girlfriends drive. i don't like it being left outside.

Cheers, Mat.


Title: Re: Beta coupe MOT fail - rear shock "worn bush"
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on June 10, 2019, 05:45:22 PM
I know that a lot of people on here disagree with me, but I think that a lot of testers fail random things on older cars that they don't really understand. As with this example they have to be nailed down to exactly what is wrong. If the top nut hasn't broken away and the car still handles OK I'd suspect this is a rogue fail, and they would have probably backed down if challenged.


Title: Re: Beta coupe MOT fail - rear shock "worn bush"
Post by: HFStuart on June 10, 2019, 07:38:42 PM
I'd tend to agree. Especially if it's not a classic friendly place.

I had one try to fail mine on beam pattern. It had brand new headlamps. I had to explain that he couldn't fail it on something that was as good as when first supplied.


Title: Re: Beta coupe MOT fail - rear shock "worn bush"
Post by: rossocorsa on June 10, 2019, 09:06:34 PM
Hi

Thanks mr Rossocorsa for posting the parts diagram, that is useful.

i'll update if i get any progress. I phoned the garage (Halfords) today they said the MOT tester who did mine goes to lots of different garages, they don't know where he is or when he will be back - really helpful.

I won't be in a position to fix the car for a while unless i get a strong steer on what part is needed and am able to find it. Otherwise it is just going to sit on my girlfriends drive. i don't like it being left outside.

Cheers, Mat.

I would not use halfords as the mechanics will maybe not be tuned in to older cars, I can only assume that the tester thinks something is loose at the top of the strut. This is most likely the top mount unless the strut itself is very badly worn which is unlikely. Try to inspect it yourself if you can.


Title: Re: Beta coupe MOT fail - rear shock "worn bush"
Post by: mat grant on June 12, 2019, 07:24:50 PM
Yes I don't think I will again ha ha.

I did get a response and they stand by their findings that one side had excessive play. They said it was the upper parts in that diagram "all four parts above the spring". I'm still unable to jack the car to confirm as my tools are sealed up while my garage is rebuilt and the car is a few miles away.

Does anyone know if the struts are common with any FIAT model?

Thanks, Mat.


Title: Re: Beta coupe MOT fail - rear shock "worn bush"
Post by: rossocorsa on June 12, 2019, 09:05:11 PM
Yes I don't think I will again ha ha.

I did get a response and they stand by their findings that one side had excessive play. They said it was the upper parts in that diagram "all four parts above the spring". I'm still unable to jack the car to confirm as my tools are sealed up while my garage is rebuilt and the car is a few miles away.

Does anyone know if the struts are common with any FIAT model?

Thanks, Mat.

I don't think they fit anything other than the Beta, the parts above the spring are a thin metal circular ring that the spring seats on, these are often very corroded, above this is a rubber ring which is usually in good order, then the mount itself I think this is the most likely culprit and that the rubber has detached firm the metal outer. The other part shown in the diagram is the bump stop, usually in good order and not relevant to this problem


Title: Re: Beta coupe MOT fail - rear shock "worn bush"
Post by: LanciaDave on August 28, 2019, 08:13:58 AM
The most common failure I've seen is that upper mount piece with the four studs sticking out the top. As seen on the diagram here:

(http://)

Typically the rubber insert starts to degrade and separates from the metal outer and top washer. On the HPE you're able to check it from the top without jacking up the car. I'd guess in the coupe the access might be from the trunk. Usually have to move the carpet off the tower, possibly a tin cover, then you should be able to inspect that top mount and look for signs of separation or just the strut top knocking around in there loose. For a while Mark was redoing them for Betaboyz when you send in your old one. You may want to check that out. Hope you get her sorted and back on the road.

Dave


Title: Re: Beta coupe MOT fail - rear shock "worn bush"
Post by: mat grant on September 01, 2019, 11:05:02 AM
Hi,

Thanks for the post, sadly the car is still in storage while my new garage is being built. It's nearly finished so I'll hopefully get a look at it soon. I'll update once I've had a look at it.

Mat.


Title: Re: Beta coupe MOT fail - rear shock "worn bush"
Post by: mat grant on August 11, 2020, 11:57:28 AM
Hi all,

Just to update on this.... My Lancia Beta coupe went for it's MOT in 2019, while I was having an extra garage put on the side of my house, so I had the car stored on my girlfriends drive, and all my tools were sealed up in my other garage so no access.

The Lancia failed on "excessively worn shock upper bush" - even though it had only done about 300 miles since the previous MOT. Because the MOT had expired I had no choice but to drive it straight back to my girlfiends house and put it on the drive. So I would start it every now and again, but couldn't drive it or even have access or tools to look at the suspension "problem"

Roll forward to now - my garage was completed so I now have one standard garage and one super large garage. The Lancia came back on a friends trailer and readied it for the MOT. But as I couldn't remember exactly what they said last time, and couldn't see anything really wrong/loose/worn on the rear suspension (and both sides look the same) I thought I'd put it back in for the MOT, at the same garage. (Different MOT tester btw). As it had been so long I could then discuss with the MOT guy what the issue was.

Anyway it passed without even any advisories on the suspension / brakes / wheels etc. And I didn't feel the need to point it out to the MOT guy  ;D So I'm at a loss as to why the guy failed it before. Now it's insured and road legal I went for a good drive in it and the handling is great - no problems whatsoever. The only advisory was the exhaust silencer has a slight blow. And while the brakes passed the MOT fine they are not brilliant - needs a fair wang on the pedal to get decent stopping.

Just a few things to sort like the drivers electric window mechanism etc (goes down but only goes up if you help it) and the carb setup (it is an IE but someone took the injection off and fitted a carb (not sure why). But it's good to be back on the road. Insurance was really cheap, so I'm looking forward to when it qualifies for free road tax!

Thanks again for the help and suggestions on here though. I'll be looking to get some miles in the car while the weather is warm and dry.

Cheers, Mat.


Title: Re: Beta coupe MOT fail - rear shock "worn bush"
Post by: mangocrazy on August 11, 2020, 11:25:25 PM
I must admit my first thought was 'put it in for another MoT'. If the tester can't clearly articulate and point out the problem, then it's a very iffy fail. Glad it's all back on the road and sanity has prevailed.


Title: Re: Beta coupe MOT fail - rear shock "worn bush"
Post by: WestonE on August 12, 2020, 08:11:29 AM
Glad you are back on the road. For your peace of mind with it securely on Axle stands check through all suspension bolts and bushes. Use a pry bar to check movement on bushes. If you find something loose you get to fix it before it becomes truly dangerous. If you find nothing you have an MOT tester trying to make money from you!

Eric


Title: Re: Beta coupe MOT fail - rear shock "worn bush"
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on August 12, 2020, 08:47:31 AM
I know that a lot of people on here disagree with me, but I think that a lot of testers fail random things on older cars that they don't really understand. As with this example they have to be nailed down to exactly what is wrong. If the top nut hasn't broken away and the car still handles OK I'd suspect this is a rogue fail, and they would have probably backed down if challenged.

I rest my case! Disgraceful.





Title: Re: Beta coupe MOT fail - rear shock "worn bush"
Post by: peteracs on August 12, 2020, 08:57:03 AM
Given the MOT test stations I have used give you a grace period to retest at no extra charge, not sure where the making money is. I do tend to use the MOT only places however, not ones that service as well which may have been the angle.

My most recent MOT fail was on the Saab where I had recently done a large service/check and it was failed on directional tyres being on the wrong side, I had not realised they were directional tyres fitted! Simple solution and the MOT station guy actually swapped them round for me.

Peter


Title: Re: Beta coupe MOT fail - rear shock "worn bush"
Post by: mangocrazy on August 12, 2020, 10:27:59 PM
There are also DoT (Dept of Transport) MoT testing stations available in certain locations; we have one in Sheffield. All they do is test vehicles, and will not fix MoT fails. They can act as a useful verification of commercial MoT testing stations.


Title: Re: Beta coupe MOT fail - rear shock "worn bush"
Post by: mat grant on August 15, 2020, 01:56:13 PM
Hi all,

Thanks for the replies - Yes a under normal circumstances I'd have been back the next day/week with the car and asked for a full explanation. But as I was in the middle of the house extension build, the car was kept quite a distance away, and the MOT had already expired, so I'd either have to trailer it or book an MOT to be able to take it back there.

So it was really frustrating - I had to leave it until my garage was finished, get it trailered by a mate back to my house. Then give it a bit of a once over, and as it had been so long I booked it in for another MOT, looked at the suspension both sides and couldn't see any difference between the left side and the right side. I was half expecting the fail but being ready for a detailed answer on exactly what it was. So I hung round while the MOT was being done.

It was just annoying as had it passed the MOT I would have been able to run it in good weather, whilst it was being stored away from my house, and get it fully warmed up etc and give it a bit of use, as it was it had to stay on my girlfriends drive for about a year and I would just run it up to temp every month or so.

Just glad it's back on the road!!

Next job is an engine service and cambelt as that hasn't been changed for a few years. I've also got to look at the carb as it is not running brilliantly.

Mat.