Lancia Beta Forum

General Category => Members Cars => Topic started by: betabuoy on January 12, 2019, 07:57:09 PM



Title: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on January 12, 2019, 07:57:09 PM
With my Coupe now out of storage, Iíve decided that itís time to sort out the engine and to up its spec.  Iíve admired the work of Guy Croft for years and, in my view, there is no better place for an engine rebuild than his worksÖ GCRE in Lincoln.  

A few weeks ago, I spent an afternoon with Guy himself: We talked for hours about pressure waves, cam overlap, primary/secondary exhaust sections etc and when it was time to go, I left with a copy of his new book which, if you donít yet have a copy, I thoroughly recommend.  

Later, having removed the engine, I stripped it to basic components and - along with another block and three other heads - I took all the big bits to Guy for him to select the best items.  Guy chose a very original 105 TC head (with 43.5mm inlet valves); my coupeís original block; the oil pump and sump; and finally, the aux driveshaft, crank and lightened flywheel that heíd modified for me back in 2006.

On my next visit, we discussed the spec for my engine.  My stated requirements were: Occasional daily commuter (thatís North Yorkshire roads Ė not city centres!); hoofing along country lanes; long-distance fast touring; and of course... the occasional track-day!

Work started in November and Guy has been sending regular updates: The head is nearing completion with ops including enlarged ports, improved gasflow, triple valve springs and race guides; and it will probably carry Guyís IIIA cams for the best overall lift profile.  The block has been re-bored to 85mm and has had a light re-face; this will be powered by Guyís own-design forged pistons (CR 10.2:1) and Cunningham Ďrods and for lubrication itíll have a baffled sump with an added cooling matrix.

More pictures to follow as it comes together.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: HFStuart on January 13, 2019, 08:51:15 PM
Are you back in the UK full time now then?

There's no finer place for T/C work but Guy's standards are so exacting ( ie his way or not at all  - fair enough with the knowledge he's got) that that must be setting you back a pretty penny.

I'll look forward to the results - I presume you'll be setting it up on the rolling road. What carbs will you run ?


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on January 14, 2019, 09:25:20 PM
Hi Stuart

Yes thanks, and its nice to be back. 

Carbs will be twin 45 DCOEs...that was an early decision for me.  And, as I understand it, the porting of the head has been all based around optimising that feed.  For set up, Guy usually uses and recommends the team from Northampton Motorsport and I see no reason to deviate.

Chris


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on February 08, 2019, 07:53:42 PM
Spent a very enjoyable few hours with Guy on Wednesday.  The head prep is complete and I must say the detail and quality of work is staggering.

(http://)


The block has been thoroughly cleaned, refaced and bored to 85mm.  Guy has just microhoned the bores with FlexHone at 240 grade ready for GC race pistons and rings.

(http://)

Having confirmed the deck height, next event is to order the GC JE A8M pistons... and of course do a bit of painting!

Chris


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on April 24, 2019, 09:35:07 AM
Another nice nice day down at GCRE last week and a pleasure to chat and watch Guy at work.  Whilst certainly not the most rapid engine build, this is more down to my project growth rather than Guy's slow progress.  My engine has been the one he agreed to fit in but its all coming along nicely now.

Photos below show the current state of play:

1. IIIA Cams in Boxes
2. Inlet porting, race guides and triple valve springs.

Engine block should be on the stand soon and ready for dressing.  New completion date set for early June... I'll post more pics as it comes together.

Chris


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on April 28, 2019, 09:53:33 AM
As a 21 yr old hooligan, it always annoyed me when the oil pressure dropped when cornering hard in my Beta.  Still an occasional hooligan - but a bit older(!) - I have great expectations for the new GCRE Beta baffled pan design... 

Tig welded sections give a bulkhead across the middle with a trapdoor that opens to allow oil over the pick-up.  This should minimise the aeration and oil starvation issues. 


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: HFStuart on April 28, 2019, 01:48:04 PM
I've got one of them. I can testify I didn't get any oil surge with it fitted - unlike the previous trap door design.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: mangocrazy on April 29, 2019, 05:31:45 PM
I've got one of them. I can testify I didn't get any oil surge with it fitted - unlike the previous trap door design.
Was the previous design also one of Guy's (and the one that BetaBoyz sell) ? I've just fitted that one to my engine so will be a bit miffed if the new design is substantailly better. Mine will only get road use, though.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: rossocorsa on April 29, 2019, 07:28:31 PM
I've got one of them. I can testify I didn't get any oil surge with it fitted - unlike the previous trap door design.
Was the previous design also one of Guy's (and the one that BetaBoyz sell) ? I've just fitted that one to my engine so will be a bit miffed if the new design is substantailly better. Mine will only get road use, though.

I think I recall that GC once commented to be that the BB one is a copy of his older design. I recall he did say it was ok as a design but he'd done an improved one since. I have the BB kit fitted to my sump but haven't tested it out yet as the car is still in bits. I did find that it didn't fit very well and needed quite a lot of adjustment.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: HFStuart on April 29, 2019, 10:00:36 PM
Alan is spot on. Possibly I mucked up the installation but I didn't find it worked that well - although better than the OEM one.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on May 02, 2019, 12:51:56 PM
The simple picture below hides amounts of blood, sweat and tears shed at GCRE.  The spec to use race gauges meant dealing with a mixture of BSP and Metric threads with the inevitable machining required to get the oil pressure gauge sender, oil temp sender and 20 psi low pressure warning switch ALL onto the Beta oil filter housing.  It took Guy a bit of careful planning; he called it - "putting new things into old things never designed for the purpose...."

All that said, he's done a nice job!



Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: WestonE on May 03, 2019, 08:31:36 AM
Prepared to be shocked by the difference in readings and speed of response on these accurate gauges to the originals. I assume they take the place of the stereo and you use a Bluetooth amplifier for music from a phone?

Enjoy

Eric


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on May 03, 2019, 08:50:38 AM
Yes... Iíve discounted the idea of plastic pods some use for these gauges in favour of a suitably placed aluminium panel.  Havenít completely committed to layout, but that area where the radio was is nicely in the field of view and is certainly favourite.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on May 04, 2019, 10:16:49 AM
Oil filter housing now fitted.  The build up begins!


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on May 04, 2019, 10:22:25 AM
The 'GC' blanking plate is a nice touch.....


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on May 04, 2019, 10:57:17 AM
The crank is in too.  

Its had the full GC prep: Unplug, remove old end bearing, decarbonise, Jizer and hot wash.  After inspection, all edges are demurred, thread out the oil galleries and slightly modify the oilways.  Guy's SOP - the cranks from 2 litre models MUST NOT be reground; if they're damaged, they're scrap! Instead, he simply prepares them by a light rub/polish with Scotchbrite before further Jizer and hotwash then re-plug of the oilways.  


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on May 04, 2019, 11:00:36 AM
The 'GC' blanking plate is a nice touch.....

Agreed.  And I think Guy has a stock of these so its a tidy solution for anyone considering going down the electric fuel pump route.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: Orbital on May 05, 2019, 09:28:38 AM
Hi guys,

Great work Chris looking forward to some more updates!

One thing I want to ask... I haven't ever heard of oil starvation before at least not on the coupes.
I am about to start my engine rebuild and would love to make a similar modification to my pan to hopefully rectify that issue for the future.
Stuart or Chris, can you talk me through what I need to do?
Any documentation would be awesome also.

I would really appreciate it!
Cheers George


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: rossocorsa on May 05, 2019, 09:44:29 AM
Hi guys,

Great work Chris looking forward to some more updates!

One thing I want to ask... I haven't ever heard of oil starvation before at least not on the coupes.
I am about to start my engine rebuild and would love to make a similar modification to my pan to hopefully rectify that issue for the future.
Stuart or Chris, can you talk me through what I need to do?
Any documentation would be awesome also.

I would really appreciate it!
Cheers George


It depends how fast you drive but the standard sump is rather compromised. This is due to the transverse layout it makes a good internal layout awkward for mass production. Essentially the cure is to cut out the original baffle and fit a more sophisticated option. GC will of course do a perfect job but not everyone can afford his prices, there is the BB kit or if you can find the pattern and are good at metal work you could probably make one yourself


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: HFStuart on May 05, 2019, 10:34:29 AM
  Guy's SPO - the cranks from 2 litre models MUST NOT be reground; if they're damaged, they're scrap!

That's a bit black and white. I think Guy acknowledges that the cranks can sometimes be saved but that it's not always worth it and for his engines he doesn't do it. The difficulty is the surface hardening on the OE crank and the possibility of micro cracking during re-hardening. To rescue mine (after I'd spend several hundred with guy doing all the ops you outline) I had it partially ground, re-hardened, crack tested and then re-ground to 2nd undersize. The depth of hardening is more than is removed in the final grind so you are left with a hard journal surface. The only problem I had was forgetting to take the woodruff key out of the crank  - it ended up with a ceramic like hardness and took ages to remove.

I ran that crank in my 150bhp engine for 4000 miles with no problems. Note I'm not saying that this process will work for anyone else. The crank may well fail crack testing. I thought it was worth a punt and got away with it.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: rossocorsa on May 05, 2019, 10:57:34 AM
  Guy's SPO - the cranks from 2 litre models MUST NOT be reground; if they're damaged, they're scrap!

That's a bit black and white. I think Guy acknowledges that the cranks can sometimes be saved but that it's not always worth it and for his engines he doesn't do it. The difficulty is the surface hardening on the OE crank and the possibility of micro cracking during re-hardening. To rescue mine (after I'd spend several hundred with guy doing all the ops you outline) I had it partially ground, re-hardened, crack tested and then re-ground to 2nd undersize. The depth of hardening is more than is removed in the final grind so you are left with a hard journal surface. The only problem I had was forgetting to take the woodruff key out of the crank  - it ended up with a ceramic like hardness and took ages to remove.

I ran that crank in my 150bhp engine for 4000 miles with no problems. Note I'm not saying that this process will work for anyone else. The crank may well fail crack testing. I thought it was worth a punt and got away with it.

GC works on the basis of ultimate safety and minimum risk so will always go for the very best option, something that might work which is a calculated risk isn't really in his vocabulary as he has to stand by his work. It does mean he is only really an option for those with relatively bottomless pockets though. As regards cranks good 2 litre ones can still be found but are getting rarer so don't ever throw out a 2 litre beta bottom end!


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on May 05, 2019, 11:12:44 AM
Hi guys,

Great work Chris looking forward to some more updates!

One thing I want to ask... I haven't ever heard of oil starvation before at least not on the coupes.
I am about to start my engine rebuild and would love to make a similar modification to my pan to hopefully rectify that issue for the future.
Stuart or Chris, can you talk me through what I need to do?
Any documentation would be awesome also.

I would really appreciate it!
Cheers George


It depends how fast you drive but the standard sump is rather compromised. This is due to the transverse layout it makes a good internal layout awkward for mass production. Essentially the cure is to cut out the original baffle and fit a more sophisticated option. GC will of course do a perfect job but not everyone can afford his prices, there is the BB kit or if you can find the pattern and are good at metal work you could probably make one yourself

Both of my 1300 Coupes have been fast enough to induce surge. Keeping the oil fully topped up does help though.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on May 05, 2019, 06:37:15 PM
Hi guys,

Great work Chris looking forward to some more updates!

One thing I want to ask... I haven't ever heard of oil starvation before at least not on the coupes.
I am about to start my engine rebuild and would love to make a similar modification to my pan to hopefully rectify that issue for the future.
Stuart or Chris, can you talk me through what I need to do?
Any documentation would be awesome also.

I would really appreciate it!
Cheers George

Hi George

Iíve thrashed Betas for years and love them to bits but the engineís Achilles heal has always been the oil system.  Itís a good tip from Neil to keep them topped up but if you plan drive yours hard, you would benefit from improving the sump as a minimum - and thatís easy if the engineís out.  My engine is already quite expensive so Iíll not compromise on lubrication; for me, a baffled sump is part of a system that will include a cooler and accumulator.  I donít want a dry bearing on a fast corner at a track day!

Plenty more pictures to come over the next few weeks.

Chris


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on May 10, 2019, 09:47:12 AM
Carbs have arrived! 

Seen here being fitted to the GC Beta manifold.  This is specifically cast offset and at angle; designed to clear the block mounted distributor and account for the Beta engine mounting angle.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on June 01, 2019, 02:07:55 PM
Engine build continues... into the last few days now.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on June 01, 2019, 02:17:19 PM
GC designed 10.2:1 pistons have arrived; seen here with new Cunningham Race 'rods.  Not only are these 'rods significantly lighter, but the combination will allow me to happily exceed 7200rpm without fear of stress failure.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: WestonE on June 02, 2019, 07:45:52 AM
Great to see an engine built from the right parts!


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: mangocrazy on June 02, 2019, 02:52:58 PM
So that's what Cunningham rods look like... mine were handed over to Stanwood engineering, still in their box from GC, when they built the bottom end for me. From the photo it's nearly impossible to see where the split between the two halves are, they match up so well.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on June 04, 2019, 07:33:46 PM
Today, everything scrupulously cleaned and lubricated...


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on June 04, 2019, 07:34:48 PM
... and GC.JE. A8M pistons on the way in.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on June 04, 2019, 07:37:09 PM
...and now secure.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: mangocrazy on June 04, 2019, 10:35:33 PM
Fantastic stuff - looking really good. Love the surgical cleanliness.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: HFStuart on June 05, 2019, 12:37:46 PM
Can't beat a bit of engine porn. The pistons look pretty amazing but I can't help seeing the £££ signs when I look at them.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on June 06, 2019, 09:19:15 PM
GCRE successful dry-build with Plasticine for an absolute check of valve to piston clearances:


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on June 06, 2019, 09:28:05 PM
Guy's last job of the day today...  He wrote:

"Oil pump checked (well-within limits) and nasty stress-raiser on the shaft radiused and polished and the pump rebuilt, coded and carefully fitted with O ring in place (some forget it!) It is vital to do this with the cambelt off so as to assure free-rotation of the pump."


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on June 07, 2019, 09:03:57 PM
In-head 74 deg C stat mod fitted today. Picture shows location in top water rail.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on June 07, 2019, 09:06:40 PM
And head now secured/timed with belt on.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on June 10, 2019, 08:29:34 PM
Some time ago, Guy and I agreed a completion date of 10 June...  and to his word, after a valiant effort including some weekend work for the final push, it was finished today!


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on June 10, 2019, 08:32:35 PM
Transport home was in the back of my hatchback.  So you can get a twin-cam in a Golf!  Tomorrow, I aim to get the engine bolted to the gearbox and on the subframe ready to go back into its rightful place.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: mangocrazy on June 10, 2019, 09:29:31 PM
That looks fantastic. Full marks to GC and to you. You can't beat photos of an immaculate engine that's just finished its build.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on June 11, 2019, 08:58:23 PM
Looks superb. What next after it's fitted?


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on June 11, 2019, 09:27:28 PM
Well, I got it fitted today.
Lining up the gearbox is always a faff but once together the rest went pretty well.  In the past, I've always extracted the Beta engine from the top; but having removed the subframe for powder coating, it was relatively simple to assemble on the trolly then wheel in from beneath.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on June 11, 2019, 09:39:22 PM
Hi Neil

Its going away to have an exhaust system made later this month then it'll be back to my local performance specialist for finishing (oil cooler, radiator etc).  Once that's done, I'll take it back to GCRE for first start procedures then dyno set-up and test at Northampton Motorsport.  Plenty still to do!  Hope to see you at the Betameet?

Chris


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: squiglyzigly on June 12, 2019, 06:14:57 PM
Front gearbox mount looks interesting. Whatís the application from?


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on June 12, 2019, 09:09:09 PM
Front gearbox mount looks interesting. Whatís the application from?
Not sure, been using it for years though!


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on June 13, 2019, 07:10:15 AM
Hi Neil

Its going away to have an exhaust system made later this month then it'll be back to my local performance specialist for finishing (oil cooler, radiator etc).  Once that's done, I'll take it back to GCRE for first start procedures then dyno set-up and test at Northampton Motorsport.  Plenty still to do!  Hope to see you at the Betameet?

Chris

Yes Chris, I'll be there in the ie. Long time no see!


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on September 13, 2019, 09:49:27 AM
Well itís been a while so I thought it was time for an update:

The exhaust was completed recently by Kevin Hoare and his team at Zero Exhaust in Ashford.  They did a very nice job building a bespoke 4-2-1 system with primary and secondary specs to GCRE recommendations; this should be below the 96dB limit for later track use too.

Since then, Iíve been waiting for a space with a preparer for finishing ; I recently delivered a box of bits from GCRE ranging from engine info gauges through to a complete oil system (remote filter, cooler and acusump) and they are assessing the situation.

Theyíve considered my proposed Ford Focus ST170 radiator but donít like the fit so are looking at an alternative which weíll discuss next week.  The oil system should be straight forward but finding a place for the acusump is tricky; most likely, it will reside along the front subframe cross-member.  Then thereís the headache of the electricsÖ. Ouch!  What started as an idea to move the battery into the boot (engine bay space) and replace the old fuse box with a modern version located somewhere cooler is likely to turn into quite a bit of re-wiring.  A combination of age, heat and poor-quality connectors is not a recipe for future reliability.

In other news, I was very pleased to see that my mighty Panda 'featured' in the latest Viva Lancia!  Good to meet/see many of you again at Betameeta 19 and I sincerely hope to be in something Ascot Green next year [driving that is... not wearing]. 

Chris


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on February 08, 2020, 06:35:24 PM
Progress had been slow since I last wrote in September but itís all moving now. 

New wiring looms were made for the front and rear compartments which are all connected with new blocks and into a modern fuse box which is now located inside, on a sliding tray, and accessed from below the glove compartment. 

The battery is in the boot which helped make space for the oil catch tank and the huge acusump, both now fitted to the LHS inner wing on a bespoke bracket.  Earlier ideas of fitting the acusump below the front crossmember were scrapped in fear of it getting damaged so whilst itís a big piece of kit Iím happy with the chosen location.

I went for a bespoke radiator and Spal fan in the end, both of which are set at a slight forward angle to maximise space for the carb air box (yet to be fabricated) and the oil cooler now fits neatly low down and to one side.

The starter motor has been reconditioned and the alternator has been replaced by a high power Wosp unit from the Betaboyz shop.  The distributor is standard, and was reconditioned recently, so although I had a think about modern programmable ignition systems Iím not following that path yet.
 
New Racetech gauges were supplied to GCRE for Oil P, Oil T and Water T; to match these, and to give a useful rpm display, Iím adding a Racetech Tacho plus new Speedo and Fuel to complete what will now be a custom dash.  The capillary fed gauges will probably be on a panel where the radio was (for simplicity) while the others will be arranged with an appropriate lighting/caution panel where the original instrument panel was.

Iíll take and post some more photos in the next few days.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: mangocrazy on February 09, 2020, 02:40:14 PM
Excellent stuff! I was idly wondering what progress had been made the other day, so the answer is plenty... Is the wiring loom in the engine bay 'modular' - i.e. can you disconnect it at a single point and then fabricate a copy/replacement? This is something that really needs doing on my Spider.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betaveloce on February 11, 2020, 10:39:08 AM
Nice work!

Question: is de Wosp alternator a direct fit? Or are there things that have to be adapted (pulley, wiring,...) or taken into account?

thanks  :)


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: peteracs on February 12, 2020, 12:10:17 AM
Is the wiring loom in the engine bay 'modular' - i.e. can you disconnect it at a single point and then fabricate a copy/replacement? This is something that really needs doing on my Spider.

I have to say having a disconnect-able wiring loom on my Spyder would have been one of my wish list items if I was rewiring.

Peter


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: WestonE on February 12, 2020, 08:58:25 AM
Hi Chaps

I re-built my loom in thin wall modern wiring using the original as a pattern. I have replaced connectors in weather hit areas with sealed connectors and removed things like wiring for rear marker lights my UK car does not have. I have also built in additional fuse boxes to support the missing factory relays for things like full speed wipers, protecting the ignition switch and headlight switches. I had a brand new OE fuse box so decided I would keep that. It took a FULL week to make and longer to design. I will still have to wire in the Link ECU (64 wires) but at least I will be giving it clean stable power.

Along the way I sorted out things like earth connections to the rear lights that used to run the full length of the car through multiple blocks.

Most people can copy the engine bay looms with modern thin wall cable and they are already modular by un-plugging at the fuse box square connectors. Also the power transfer front to rear looms are really simple to re-make.

As ever corroded contacts and poor earth are the normal issues. Most earth wires are now corroded along their length which you see as you try to re-terminate them and they stay blackened on the copper.


It is not possible for me to share a design schema sorry.

Eric     


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on February 12, 2020, 07:43:15 PM
is de Wosp alternator a direct fit? Or are there things that have to be adapted (pulley, wiring,...) or taken into account?

It's still in the box but it came from the Betaboyz shop so I hope it should be fairly straightforward. I will let you know very soon when I fit it.

Chris


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on February 12, 2020, 07:51:42 PM

I re-built my loom in thin wall modern wiring using the original as a pattern. I have replaced connectors in weather hit areas with sealed connectors and removed things like wiring for rear marker lights my UK car does not have. I have also built in additional fuse boxes to support the missing factory relays for things like full speed wipers, protecting the ignition switch and headlight switches.
    

And this is exactly what I have done; it seemed the only way to solve one of the achilles heels of these cars.  However, in my view, since the quality of much of the original electrical eqpt was so poor, with the fuse box at it's heart it had to be changed too.  Front and rear looms, plus a mass of electric string behind the dash and around the ignition, have been in a terrible state.

Picture below shows the new 'box which is fitted in a bespoke aluminium tray to soon be secured behind/under the glove box.  




Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on February 12, 2020, 08:00:03 PM
Engine bay is taking shape.  Ignore the red cable... that'll be connected shortly too.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: WestonE on February 13, 2020, 08:41:06 AM
I love the quality work and wish mine was that close to finished. It is at the bodyshop to April now.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: mangocrazy on February 13, 2020, 09:59:12 AM
Betabuoy, where did you get the fusebox from? I presume that caters for all the circuits you need and has flexibility for any future requirements? I intend to do something very similar to my Spider in the fullness of time. Pics when it's fully installed would be very welcome, as well.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: squiglyzigly on February 14, 2020, 05:10:00 PM
Nice work, coming along nicely.
What plans have you got for opening/closing the accusump valve?


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: WestonE on February 14, 2020, 06:58:49 PM
Hi Graham

Those are modular MTA units some with micro relays. You can see the Durite part number but you can can get them from Pole Volt, Vehicle Wiring Products and others. Designing the scheme is harder than wiring them. But no body yet chose wiring as a party event.

Cheers

Eric     


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on February 14, 2020, 10:14:10 PM
What plans have you got for opening/closing the accusump valve?

Ian

I'll probably leave it shut while I'm bedding in the new engine; apart from the benefit of a bit of pressure lubrication as electrical power comes on, it shouldn't be required... I do plan to take everything steady for a while!  Once I've got a few miles on the engine, it'll be time to get the acusump operating before I start throwing the car around a bit.

Chris


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: mangocrazy on February 14, 2020, 10:57:54 PM
Hi Graham

Those are modular MTA units some with micro relays. You can see the Durite part number but you can can get them from Pole Volt, Vehicle Wiring Products and others. Designing the scheme is harder than wiring them. But no body yet chose wiring as a party event.

Cheers

Eric     
Cheers Eric, I've used VWP from their pre-Internet days, so will have a look through their stock. Yes, buying the stuff is the easy bit - designing a wiring loom needs to be undertaken with no distractions, otherwise toys end up being thrown out of the pram...


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on February 14, 2020, 11:05:28 PM
Hi Graham

Those are modular MTA units some with micro relays. You can see the Durite part number but you can can get them from Pole Volt, Vehicle Wiring Products and others. Designing the scheme is harder than wiring them. But no body yet chose wiring as a party event.

Cheers

Eric     
Cheers Eric, I've used VWP from their pre-Internet days, so will have a look through their stock. Yes, buying the stuff is the easy bit - designing a wiring loom needs to be undertaken with no distractions, otherwise toys end up being thrown out of the pram...

Graham
Iíll try and dig out the stock reference for you if needed but Iím away for a few days and canít give you a proper answer now.
Chris


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: mangocrazy on February 15, 2020, 12:14:30 AM
Graham
Iíll try and dig out the stock reference for you if needed but Iím away for a few days and canít give you a proper answer now.
Chris
Cheers Chris.

Graham


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: squiglyzigly on February 15, 2020, 10:52:17 AM
What plans have you got for opening/closing the accusump valve?

Ian

I'll probably leave it shut while I'm bedding in the new engine; apart from the benefit of a bit of pressure lubrication as electrical power comes on, it shouldn't be required... I do plan to take everything steady for a while!  Once I've got a few miles on the engine, it'll be time to get the acusump operating before I start throwing the car around a bit.

Chris

Makes good sense, I presume you have the electric solenoid valve to open/close?

Cheers
Ian


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on February 15, 2020, 01:38:00 PM
In a word - Yes.  

Having fitted Guy's latest pattern baffled sump, I thought long and hard about whether or not to bother with an accumulator but after over 30 years of accepting the Beta's very variable oil pressure, I didn't want to risk starving the new engine when cornering!  And as if I needed more convincing, it was the electric solenoid adding pre-lube that finally sold an Acusump system to me.

The photo below was taken at GCRE as we planned the system.  The labelling should be pretty obvious but RFH is Remote Filter Housing (represented by the filter box on the table) and the system includes the new sandwich plate and cooler.

Chris


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: WestonE on February 16, 2020, 05:35:42 PM
I am installing an Accusump on my Beta Spyder VX project and already run one on my Montecarlo . I recommend an electrical turn off switch well labeled. It helps with servicing and holding oil in the Accusump when you are just turning the ignition on not starting the car.

I have baffled sumps in both cars.

Eric   


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: squiglyzigly on February 16, 2020, 07:05:47 PM
Have installed mine as Eric says. Simply fitted an electric servo arm onto the original valve. Love being able to pre-oil before start-up.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on February 17, 2020, 04:19:42 PM
Eric, Ian,

Ref components in my layout picture: do you mean a further electric servo to replace the valve with the yellow handle?

Chris


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: WestonE on February 17, 2020, 07:17:19 PM
Hi Chris I have the original Accusump Electric valve you have which allows oil to enter the unit when there is enough extra pressure and will release it when it senses a pressure drop. Turning it off stops it releasing oil under pressure back into the system. Your second physical valve stops oil entering or leaving. So good if you do not want any running in oil getting to the Accusump.

I have not seen the set up Ian has before, but it looks like an electric valve head on the manual valve so I would guess he can turn it fully off and leave it to fill and respond in line with oil pressure when switched on.

They are far cheaper than running the bearings and trashing the crank or throwing a con rod through the crank case!

Mine got good use in the Alps on the Turino trip!

Cheers

Eric       


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on February 17, 2020, 08:36:34 PM
Eric
Thanks, I understand and am happy that Iíve not missed something. Iíll certainly keep it isolated for running in.
Alps would be fun though!
Chris


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on May 07, 2020, 09:05:37 AM
Everything is taking longer than I thought.  What recently started out as a dash rebuild, so I could have a 10,000rpm RaceTech gauge (to match the oil and water), turned into a bit of a faff! But... I now have a nearly matching set of instruments arranged in an eye-pleasing fashion.

Fitting the air-box to the Webers was as tricky as expected.  In the end, I bought a fibreglass moulded box that was from a '70s Hillman Hunter; apart from being bright orange (sorry Tim but I'll have to change that) it has just the right internal space for proper breathing using a set of short Weber trumpets.  Interestingly, my preparer, Mark, is still very concerned about carb icing when just using the Beta 'normally'.  As we know, there is no water heated jacket around the GC manifold and despite Guy's insistence that I feed the carbs cold air Mark can see trouble ahead; as such, we're planning to route the air-box breather snout on a flexi that could sit either towards the rear of the engine bay 'hot', or, to the front 'cold'.  I'm going to put another post about icing on the Carburettor page; I can't find any earlier comments of icing so it's either not a problem on a Beta or we don't understand it.

As more stuff goes in the engine bay, we've had to re-look at some pipework for the oil system which has resulted in removing the manual valve from the Accusump.  The electric valve seems to do everything we need so unless anyone (Eric?) knows of a good reason why I need it, it'll be gone.

There remain a number of small jobs before MOT but at least the car's running now and with good oil pressure!  Next on the list will be to modify the support bracket to span 4-branches at the lower part of the exhaust manifold.     


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: HFStuart on May 07, 2020, 09:37:12 AM
Chris,

I'm no expert on carb icing but given where they sit on a Beta I'd be really surprised  - it's not like they're perched on top of the head. Good to take precautions I suppose.

The orange airbox just won't do.We only have one beta from dixie in this group :)


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on May 30, 2020, 11:33:19 AM
Good progress this week.  Engine Bay is now complete and the dash is fitted and fully functional.



Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: mangocrazy on May 30, 2020, 02:29:54 PM
Hi Chris, Nice work! Who supplied the radiator that you are using? A custom built one, while more costly, is always going to make better use of the space than one that is modified to suit. And that Accusump takes up a fair bit of space...


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on May 31, 2020, 02:38:58 PM
Graham
The custom radiator became the only way to go.  I'd read about others using Ford Focus ST170 units so we ordered one but it is the wrong shape and we just couldn't get it to fit.  We spec'd the alloy core based on what would fit then it was built up at my local garage and sits behind a Spal fan. 
Finding a location for the Accusump was a challenge; c/w valves and pipes, it does take a lot of space and I really didn't want it to be too exposed to debris by putting it too low in the engine bay.  Still... it works, and we're nearly there now!
Chris


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: mangocrazy on May 31, 2020, 03:04:34 PM
OK, that's interesting. I guess you mounted the fan in front of the rad to give yourself a bit more room for the airbox? Space is certainly at a premium in the engine bay. I've purchased one of the Monte Hospital airboxes (without knowing how much space it will take up). I suspect I'll be following you down the custom radiator route. I like the idea of the Accusump but as I've no intention to track-day the car, I'll just stick with a baffled sump. But I will be fitting a proper oil pressure sender and gauge.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: fred2660 on June 17, 2020, 06:42:50 PM
Nice engine!!!


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on June 21, 2020, 09:27:43 AM
Weíre back on the road.  MOT was a couple of weeks ago then itís been a final few jobs before the testing and bedding in began.

I spent a day with Mark and his team at Automark in Stokesley www.automarkuk.com (http://www.automarkuk.com) on Wednesday while we talked through the re-wiring and carb adjustments, checked the ignition timing and set the front wheel tracking.  The engine had been first run a couple of weeks ago; filled with mineral oil and with a couple of gallons of Shell V-Power, GCRE provided an initial start guide which was followed to the letter.  After a few pumps on the throttle, the engine fires up beautifully; itís nice to feel your adding some oil pressure too by opening the electric valve on the Accusump before cranking.

Getting going was not smooth and the carbs popped and spluttered a bit until the revs come up.  Mark suggested changing the F16 emulsion tubes to F11 for a quick fettle and it certainly made things better for now.  Itíll get a proper set up when it has the first oil change.  Once on the road, the engine pulls well up to our imposed 4000rpm limit and all engine instruments are working as they should; the gearchange is much better, having fitted the Betaboyz linkage kit, but the ride on the shorter springs was ridiculously firm.

Back at the garage and up on the ramp we realised why the suspension was so firmÖ weíd been virtually sitting on the bump-stops at the front!  It was then I recalled reading something Eric had posted about cutting the front bump-stops in half, so with tin snips in hand we removed about 30mm.  What a difference!   

Over the last couple of days, Iíve clocked around 150mls.  Iím keeping my eyes and ears on everything.  The sensor for the electronic speedo gave a bit of hassle early on but slight adjustment has fettled that; otherwise, Iíve had a couple of excursions to 4500rpm but have not yet used more than half throttle.  Steady away.  Iím keeping an eye on the plugs too and they look fine.

GCRE recommend 500mls before the first oil change but Mark is keen to change it sooner.  Heís rightly concerned about build debris, but I have faith in Guy so I think Iíll find a compromise and stick with the old mineral running-in oil for a bit longer; once changed, and on to something fully synthetic, Iím looking forward to opening up those carbs a bit more. 

Chris


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: WestonE on June 21, 2020, 10:56:27 AM
Hi Chris

Great news and good to know something I wrote yeas ago helped! I would check compression over all cylinders before changing the oil (hot throttle wide open). You want to be sure the rings are bedded in fully. Short bursts to 6,000 under load might be needed.

You are looking for even compression figures i.e. within 5% across cylinders with a strong jump in the first 3 turns. Normally counting to 10 in elephants does the job.

Battery and starter condition matter for this.

If you decide to add oil to check wet seal do not add a lot and expect epic smoke when you re-start the engine afterwards. Your neighbors will not love you until it clears.

Enjoy

Eric 


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: mangocrazy on June 21, 2020, 06:06:01 PM
On the occasions I have a new engine to run in, I change the mineral (running in) oil and filter at around 100-150 miles, just to clear out any build debris. Then I refill with more mineral oil and leave that in until running in is complete (anywhere between 600-1000 miles), after which it's new fully synthetic oil and filter. This regime costs you an extra fill of oil and a filter, but covers all bases to my mind.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on July 03, 2020, 08:29:32 PM
The engineís going nicely.  Almost 500mls completed and, after an oil change yesterday, itís time to use it a bit more.  

Carbs are still as set by Guy and spluttering a bit at low revs but not worth fussing about just yet; Iíll put another 500mls or so on the engine before getting these set properly.  

The planned shake-down has been essential so far.  A few snags to note:

ē   Lost a subframe mounting bolt Ė replaced.
ē   Eng oil temp gauge not working Ė awaiting replacement gauge.
ē   Fuel gauge not working Ė needs fettling inside the tank.
ē   Spal fan disappointing in the recent hot weather Ė might add an additional small fan to cover more of the radiator surface area.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on July 03, 2020, 08:36:24 PM
Delighted with the Momo wheel.  I should've bought one years ago!


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: HFStuart on July 03, 2020, 10:33:39 PM
SNAP!

Good aren't they?


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: WestonE on July 04, 2020, 08:57:54 AM
I have a Momo Competition for mine. I just wish I could use it!

Eric


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on July 21, 2020, 04:29:04 PM
Would I say finished?  I suppose youíre never finished with a Lancia and since I plan to track and climb this in the future thereíll certainly be more prep work to come.
Iíve covered just over 800mls on this GCRE creation and itís magnificent. In this spec, the pull comes from around 2500rpm and with my foot firmly on the floor the revs build rapidly. By 5000rpm itís on the cam and utterly hoofing. Changing from 2nd to 3rd approaching 7500rpm is glorious; in 3rd, Iím already at 5000rpm, the carbs are roaring, the exhaust is howling, and the speed just piles on. This is delightful.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on August 25, 2020, 07:14:05 PM
Four weeks on from the first proper testing and there have been a few things to fettle:  

The toe-out of the front wheels has come out a bit to 3mm which feels a lot better.

Next, with the Betaboyz shorter springs, I fitted Betaboyz supplied Spax top-adjustable shock-absorbers on the rear using a mid setting; this has proved too hard... it felt like the car was on the 'stops!  Adjusting them to fully soft has done the trick for now but i'm keen to hear others' views?

The carbs were finally properly jetted by Mark Hardy at AutoMark last week and the difference is significant; the Beta had been a bit of a pig to drive 'discretely' at low revs when moving around town but lots of jets-swapping on the rollers has done the trick.  It's way smoother and the dyno graph proves Guy's forecast of lovely flat(ish) Tq from 2500rpm across to 8000rpm (peaking at around 200Nm at 5200rpm) and a max power of around 180bhp at 7600rpm.  I know the dyno print can be just a bit of reassurance but it was nice to see!

Finally, I'm having a few snags with the OE starter motor.  It was reconditioned before re-fitting, and all the feeding electrics and switching have been checked, but it sometimes struggles to turn the engine... particularly after a few priming pumps on the throttle.  It seems better to just turn the key then give some throttle once the engine's spinning so maybe the higher engine compression is the problem.  Anyhow, I'd really welcome any thoughts before I commit to trying a high tq unit.  


 


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: mangocrazy on August 26, 2020, 12:07:33 PM
The car sounds like an absolute delight. On the starter motor front, I recall Guy waxing lyrical over the high torque/compact starter motor that the US Auto Ricambi guys were selling - he gave it an A1 rating and said he'd never known a starter motor spin a high comp motor over so quickly... Probably not the advice you wanted to hear...

Were the jetting changes required to get the motor running better low down significant, and do you have a note of the changes? My motor (when it's finally complete) will have a considerably more modest power output, but will be using twin DCOE 45s with 36mm chokes.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on August 26, 2020, 01:08:23 PM
Hi Graham,

Thanks for your thoughts.  Regarding the starter motor, I think you're right and high torque might be what I need; I'm driving the Beta down to Guy's tomorrow so I'll have a chat with him about options.

The jetting changes were pretty significant yes; in fact, I think virtually everything changed but that's the job of the rolling road experts anyway.  Guy assembled my new (Spanish) 45s with 38 chokes; he then jetted them with F16 emulsion tubes and jets that he knew would get me started but said to expect many changes on the dyno.  That worked but my engine's progression when just moving beyond the slow running jet was quite a problem and there were some comments about differences between original Webers and the Spanish ones.  In the end, there was some additional drilling of the tiny holes in the carb body to improve this area.  I was sceptical but it has really worked.

Chris


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: mangocrazy on August 26, 2020, 07:58:45 PM
Hi Chris, thanks for that info. I think that (when the day arrives) I'll need to book my Spider in at the same place you used. They certainly seem to know their stuff. Where are they based? My Webers are Spanish made, as well, so I suspect they will need similar fettling. Drilling out airways is not for the faint-hearted...

Please give Guy my regards when you see him. He certainly seems perkier now than he has done for a while.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on August 26, 2020, 08:44:37 PM
Hi Graham,
I will pass on your regards. 
Automark are based in Stokesley, North Yorkshire. TS9 5PT. http://www.automarkuk.com (http://www.automarkuk.com)
Mark seems to love working with Webers; he managed all the re-wiring on my car too so he now knows the Beta pretty well.
Chris


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on August 27, 2020, 08:42:09 PM
Had a great round trip to see Guy at GCRE in Lincoln today; I particularly wanted him to see the completed installation of his engine. 
Down the A1 to get there and a blast over the Yorkshire Moors (in some very heavy rain) to get home.
At his workshop, Guy was in really good spirit and, of course, the visit wouldn't have been complete without his giving my Beta a dutiful thrashing.  He approved!  


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: WestonE on August 27, 2020, 09:25:31 PM
Great to see Guy let out of the workshop and driving his work!

On the Starters the WOSP Gear Reduction unit is excellent and now have even more powerful Denso motors. They are based in Aylesbury. Otherwise go over the top with Earthing of the starter and the battery i.e. no thin gauge battery leads and really clean connections including starter to block and block to chasis.

Eric


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on August 28, 2020, 08:01:19 AM
Thatís great, thanks Eric.  All the wiring is new, clean and well up to the current. 
The new starting regime works most of the time but Ďmostí is not really good enough so Iíve been in touch with Mark W and he can get one through the parts shop... fairly quickly too. 
Your extra reassurance on the WOSP unit is just what I needed.

Chris


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: HFStuart on August 28, 2020, 11:01:09 AM
I was running 10:1 at one point and the starter never felt like or was struggling. Your cam timing might be creating more effective compression but it's a pretty chunky unit.

Stupid question but have you checked the engine to chassis and battery to chassis earth connections and the condition of the cables?


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on August 28, 2020, 11:32:41 AM
Morning Stuart,
Earthís were renewed with very chunky cabling during the rewire so Iím very confident of their effect. The main change came when the carbs were re-jetted and the timing accurately set.
WOSP starter ordered this morning!

Chris


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on April 15, 2021, 09:25:28 PM
Just back from the first long run of the year... a 600ml round trip to my parents in Surrey.  The Beta was faultless and thoroughly enjoyable on a mixture of roads but admittedly quite a bit of motorway.

After the first leg, I took a good look around for any shakedown snags, and under the bonnet I was extremely disappointed to notice a missing jet cover and wingnut from one of the carbs. Obviously no sign of it in the engine bay but I donít like the idea of these coming loose! In the wrong place, could do quite a bit of damage!


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: WestonE on April 16, 2021, 07:55:01 AM
Hi Chris

They have been falling off DCOEs since they were first produced unfortunately. Time for some lock wire. There are lots of photos online. Also check the lock tabs are in place for the venturi locating screws.

Eric 


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on April 16, 2021, 09:38:35 AM
Hi Eric,

I've grown up with aviation stuff retained with lock-wire so I was disappointed in myself for not spotting this earlier.  Anyhow, just ordered a replacement for £8.95 which I intend not to loose!
Venturi locating screws I will check.  Good tip, thanks.

Chris


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on September 30, 2021, 10:21:08 PM
Just gone in to meet the welder's torch.  Needs work to LHS sill, lower A post and floor edge.  Absolutely must be done properly.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: WestonE on October 01, 2021, 10:01:34 AM
They are better without the rust so a good catch. I highly recommend all box sections are treated with Dinitrol it has preserved my Monte replacement metal work without issue for 16 years now.

It is a messy unpleasant job even with the pro injection kit I own so get someone else to do it if you have the funds.

Eric


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on October 01, 2021, 03:35:40 PM
Great advice Eric. The RHS was done over 10 years ago and is still pristine. This new work will definitely get the same treatmentÖ but this is expensive!!  And I certainly wouldnít want any of my family to have to revisit it for many years.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: HFStuart on October 02, 2021, 06:45:11 PM
Expensive because it's time consuming.  There's no way to do it properly and quickly - if only! With Eric on the dinitrol I'll need a barrel of the stuff and as usual it will go everywhere, including me and the drive.

Worthwhile investment though - with luck they'll outlive us.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on October 22, 2021, 08:38:25 PM
Really important to deal with all three sections of the sill.  Here we are fully cut back to good metal.  The centre section could easily be hidden but is so important for strength.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on October 22, 2021, 08:39:45 PM
A patch was needed in the footwell too.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on October 22, 2021, 08:42:24 PM
And after a little tidying up on the door bottom and at the rear of the sill, it was ready for painting.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on October 22, 2021, 08:44:28 PM
All done.


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: WestonE on October 23, 2021, 08:31:38 AM
Nice to see a great car back together and not being metallic paint you have a much better chance of it being invisible even under sodium street lights.

Eric 


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on October 24, 2021, 08:52:41 AM
Who did the work Chris?


Title: Re: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade
Post by: betabuoy on October 24, 2021, 06:00:47 PM
Hi Neil,
Itís Auto Bodycraft in Stokesley. Alex has a great team and has been my go-to for the complicated bodywork stuff for around 15 years now. Colour match is spot on too!
Chris