Lancia Beta Forum

Technical stuff => Suspension => Topic started by: smithymc on June 01, 2013, 05:55:10 PM



Title: Rear Coupe Shcoks
Post by: smithymc on June 01, 2013, 05:55:10 PM
I need some rear ( and probably front ) dampers and Mark W seems out of stock on the conversion fittings to the inserts.
An ebay search produces the following.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-Rear-Shock-Absorbers-LANCIA-BETA-1600-101BHP-Coupe-76-84-/370756414008 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-Rear-Shock-Absorbers-LANCIA-BETA-1600-101BHP-Coupe-76-84-/370756414008)


This seems to be the same make as some of the other items Mark sells - has anyone any experience( or of any other shocks and their sources)?


Mark


Title: Re: Rear Coupe Shcoks
Post by: MattNoVAT on June 01, 2013, 08:59:36 PM
I have used these on my S1 Coupe that I'm restoring.  No issues with fitting these.


Title: Re: Rear Coupe Shcoks
Post by: HFStuart on June 01, 2013, 09:17:05 PM
Agreed KYB ( or Kayaba) are decent.

You know these are inserts not complete struts?


Title: Re: Rear Coupe Shcoks
Post by: smithymc on June 02, 2013, 09:39:23 AM
It seems that inserst are pretty much all that is available on the rear. As the car will be staying at the garage,  I hope that fitting them will be a formaility- being optimistic!

Thanks for the reassurance chaps.

Mark


Title: Re: Rear Coupe Shcoks
Post by: smithymc on June 02, 2013, 11:14:13 AM
Ok thats the rears ordered - any reccmmendations for fronts?

I can get Spax adjustables from several sources but may be OTT for tootling. I havnt had much success with lifespans on Koni adjustables on my Volvo - very noisy very quickly.

Mark


Title: Re: Re: Rear Coupe Shocks
Post by: rossocorsa on June 02, 2013, 12:07:20 PM
if you set them relatively soft they will be fine, however spax do seem a bit lax on quality had a set on a mg tf and within a year of light use (few thousand miles only) they had play on the bottom bush on one side rear. spax wouldn't accept liability without me removing the damper and sending it back (less than year old and 6000 miles only) for inspection prior to any action never did this as I could not disable the car for the length of time it would involve as it was in daily use, they wouldn't accept the word of my local mot tester, anyway they were an advisory so I left it and since sold the car but it did put me off spax others have said the same that they have unresponsive after sales service.
I suppose on a beta where they are just supplying the tube itself they might be a better option?


Title: Re: Rear Coupe Shcoks
Post by: smithymc on June 02, 2013, 07:53:32 PM
Thanks for that - I think the Spax are the way to go, just set them sensibly.

On a more practical issue, will I need the conversion fittings wherever I source the shock inserts from?- thats the way I read the Betaboyz info.

Mark


Title: Re: Rear Coupe Shcoks
Post by: rossocorsa on June 02, 2013, 08:39:27 PM
Depends on your shocks earlier ones can be taken apart but later ones and after market have to be cut open and modified


Title: Re: Rear Coupe Shcoks
Post by: smithymc on June 02, 2013, 10:22:01 PM
Mine are the originals, so 1976/7 production.

Mark


Title: Re: Rear Coupe Shcoks
Post by: MattNoVAT on June 02, 2013, 10:36:04 PM
Mark,

You'll have to do a visual check on yours to see if they are the sealed or insert type.  

Take a wheel off and check the strut, at first I thought my S1 was sealed type, but after clearing away the muck at the top of the main strut body chamber I found they were insert type.

Good luck!


Title: Re: Rear Coupe Shcoks
Post by: smithymc on June 04, 2013, 05:36:36 PM
Things are going badly - 2 suppliers of the KYB inserts that Mark W no longer has have now let me down in 3 days. It seems they indeed may be discontinued.

The garage confirm that the struts are sealed so will need adaptation to receive inserts and Mark has none of the (seemingly expensive) conversion collars.

It feels like I am now stuffed either way.

Any ideas?

Mark


Title: Re: Rear Coupe Shcoks
Post by: HFStuart on June 04, 2013, 06:06:50 PM
Sadly rear shocks for coupe / spider seem a little thin on the ground. I've got four spare front ones but no rears.

If you can get a pair of inserts they should come with locking nuts (or at a pinch you can buy the nuts). Once you have those a decent machine shop will be able to turn a pair of adaptors and weld them onto the strut body for you. All you need to make sure is that with the insert in place the nut locks it down with a good few turns of thread engaged. I had to do that with my spider as at the time the Betaboyz kit wasn't available.


Title: Re: Rear Coupe Shcoks
Post by: VXdeMayo on June 04, 2013, 09:46:26 PM
My sympathies to you Mark. I had the same annoying run around looking for KYB inserts / anything for our HPE recently. No joy, and if you want to match up a set of four,    ................well there's a game!
Not convinced with quality of Spax over the years, and Billies / Konis complete sets non existent I have found.
Settled with an almost new Sachs Super Touring front pair from Mark W (Thanks), and got my rear Sachs "re inserted" so they look the same. After a coat of paint they look aftermarket. (Still some folk don't seem impressed with a pragmatic decision. What can you do eh)?
If you locate a set of performance Shocks for a HPE let me know! I won't wait up though.
Best of luck with the search.
Chas and Anne. ::)


Title: Re: Rear Coupe Shcoks
Post by: vancouver on June 05, 2013, 03:37:01 AM
I just bought 2 for my 77 1800 coupe

http://www.spring-loaded.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=Kayaba~-~KYB~Excel-G~Shock~Absorber~-~365040 (http://www.spring-loaded.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=Kayaba~-~KYB~Excel-G~Shock~Absorber~-~365040)

you can confirm your part number from the catalogue

http://www.kyb-europe.com/catalogue.asp (http://www.kyb-europe.com/catalogue.asp)

53.29


Title: Re: Rear Coupe Shcoks
Post by: HFStuart on June 05, 2013, 08:35:14 AM
Apologies if this has been posted before but here are some part numbers for Coupe / Spider shocks unless stated otherwise. If anyone has more please do add to this:

KYB Premium
Front 663047
Rear 665034

KYB Super
Front 363040
Rear 365040

Monroe Radialmatic (change MR to MG for Gasmatic version)
Front MR833
Rear MR967
Rear (Berlina & HPE) MR946

Sachs Supertouring
Front (Coupe, Spider & HPE) 110191
Front (Berlina) 110189
Rear 110192
Rear (HPE & Berlina) 110190

Spax
Front TAG1156???
Rear TAG1157-1
Rear (HPE & Berlina) TAG1158-1


Title: Re: Rear Coupe Shcoks
Post by: lukasdeopalenica on June 05, 2013, 11:32:05 AM
Great, it would be fantastic if we have also rear inserts for HPE listed here.
Thanks  8)


Title: Re: Rear Coupe Shcoks
Post by: HFStuart on June 05, 2013, 01:48:25 PM
Some edits / changes made to show HPE & Berlina parts where I could find them.


Title: Re: Rear Coupe Shcoks
Post by: vancouver on June 05, 2013, 04:05:23 PM
OK I'm not so smart - re:my last post.

The company just refunded my money as they are out of stock.

So who does have stock of the KYBs?


Title: Re: Rear Coupe Shcoks
Post by: vancouver on June 05, 2013, 04:09:50 PM
HFStuart

do you have recommended suppliers?

What would be your choices for a track day car?

I have a 77 coupe and I need rears


Title: Re: Rear Coupe Shcoks
Post by: HFStuart on June 05, 2013, 05:01:13 PM
Sadly not  - many of the items are available if you search long enough but you might have to go to the Europe or the US to find them.

Konis would be my choice if you can find them for a track car plus they can be rebuilt. Spax wound to one of their harder settings would also work OK


Title: Re: Rear Coupe Shcoks
Post by: MattNoVAT on June 05, 2013, 06:58:36 PM
Im almost certain that Mark W said that KYB stopped making the inserts for rear coupe/spider.  I reckon it's taking time for suppliers to catch up and remove their listings/adverts. Hence the refund.

If I recall correctly he was looking for alternative units that may require minor mods.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Title: Re: Rear Coupe Shcoks
Post by: smithymc on June 05, 2013, 07:17:29 PM
I think Matt is correct- I have had 2 people 'sell' me the shocks, only to say they don't have ( or cant get) them the next day. I am trying  a third as we speak and will post outcome.

Mark



Title: Re: Rear Coupe Shcoks
Post by: smithymc on June 06, 2013, 03:14:44 PM
And a third indeed - they all must use KYB direct, who have none.


Title: Re: Rear Coupe Shcoks
Post by: vancouver on June 06, 2013, 10:28:32 PM
OK I may have found some shocks...maybe

I have an North American 77 coupe (bumper less) which I use on the street but am turning into a track day car.

I have found a pair of  Koni # 86-1904 fronts for a  Beta Sedan 1975-1976 (which I assume is a Berlina)

and

a pair of Beta Sedan & HPE - Koni Rear Strut Cartridges

Item# KO-87-2118

Questions

Will they physically fit in my 77 Coupe?

and

is the only difference between the shocks for a Coupe and a HPE or a sedan the stiffness - meaning these will ride stiffer that ones for the Coupe

the Coupe is 100 pounds less than the HPE and 200 less than the Sedan

What will be the issues?

Thank you is advance 




Title: Re: Re: Rear Coupe Shcoks
Post by: rossocorsa on June 06, 2013, 11:58:53 PM
neither will fit they are too tall


Title: Re: Rear Coupe Shcoks
Post by: vancouver on June 07, 2013, 01:35:55 AM
OK - if is true they won't fit I know where they can be purchased - just send me a note


Title: Re: Rear Coupe Shcoks
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on June 07, 2013, 06:51:00 AM
I thought the front shocks were the same on the Coupe and saloon? Just the rears were different? They seem to be becoming 'crisis parts' either way, made worse by the lack of interchangeability whatever that may or may not be!


Title: Re: Rear Coupe Shcoks
Post by: lukasdeopalenica on June 07, 2013, 08:26:43 AM
berlina rear = HPE rear
coupe front = spider front = HPE front

I can exchange a brand new coupe pair of rear kayaba inserts for a pair of any new pair of HPE/berlina rears :)


Title: Re: Rear Coupe Shcoks
Post by: VXdeMayo on June 07, 2013, 05:57:46 PM
Dear Vancouver,
As we have a HPE I am possibly interested in the Berlina / HPE rear strut inserts? Could you direct me to the site or advise me of the price?
That would be really helpful.
Best of luck with the search.
Chas and Anne. :)


Title: Re: Rear Coupe Shcoks
Post by: peteracs on June 10, 2013, 09:19:24 AM
Hi Mark

Trawling through Ebay revealed a few sets of rear inserts for Coupe, NOS and of varying manuf, can send links if you still want any. Obviously no idea if any good, but you will need to be able to use inserts instead of replacement units.

Peter


Title: Re: Rear Coupe Shcoks
Post by: smithymc on June 10, 2013, 11:12:39 AM
Thanks Peter

Anything considered at this point- I have some Spax insets en route from BetaBoyz as we speak, but not sure yet quite how much fabrication will be required to make them fit so would consider alternatives.


This is just one area I was not expecting to have to address as all looked good ( until the trip to the MOT station!)

Regards

Mark


Title: Re: Rear Coupe Shcoks
Post by: peteracs on June 10, 2013, 10:44:35 PM
Hi Mark

All the inserts will require the same amount of fitting as far as I know, so the one from BB should be fine. Only issue will be modding yours if you have the non insert versions.

Let me know how you get on with them.

Peter


Title: Re: Rear Coupe Shcoks
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on August 05, 2013, 06:01:25 PM
My grumbling rear OS shock has finally given up the ghost after surviving several MOT advisories and has shed what must be pretty much all it's oil onto the drive (though with no noticeable deterioration in performance!).

I have two inserts but neither came with the gland nut to secure them within my (modified) strut body. The insert came in an Armstrong box. The only markings on it are 010672 678 and Made in England 9 00 41. I also have an identical insert with a Spax sticker on it 'Spax 3280-10-FUT Lancia Rear' Questions;

Does anyone have a suitable gland nut?
There is some play between the insert and the body (obviously without it being locked down in any way). Is this right, or should it be a tight fit?
What is the little steel collar that did come with the insert (picture)?
Are these rear Coupe inserts (they appear to be the right length)?


Title: Re: Rear Coupe Shcoks
Post by: HFStuart on August 05, 2013, 06:27:45 PM
I have a gland nut for a standard body

Same play is normal they should not be too tight a fit

The collar looks like a spacer to me.

Stuart


Title: Re: Rear Coupe Shocks
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on August 05, 2013, 06:35:08 PM
Stuart - PM sent.


Title: Re: Rear Coupe Shcoks
Post by: HF Stinger on November 29, 2016, 07:45:13 AM
Just an update while doing a bit of research:

KYB Premium
Front 663047
Rear 665034

KYB Super
Front 363040
Rear 365040

Monroe Radialmatic (change MR to MG for Gasmatic version)
Front MR833
Rear MR967
Rear (Berlina & HPE) MR946

Sachs Supertouring
Front (Coupe, Spider & HPE) 110191
Front (Berlina) 110189
Rear 110192
Rear (HPE & Berlina) 110190

Spax
Front KYB Premium
Front 663047
Rear 665034

KYB Super
Front 363040
Rear 365040

Monroe Radialmatic (change MR to MG for Gasmatic version)
Front MR833
Rear MR967
Rear (Berlina & HPE) MR946

Sachs Supertouring
Front (Coupe, Spider & HPE) 110191
Front (Berlina) 110189
Rear 110192
Rear (HPE & Berlina) 110190

Spax
Front TAG1136-I
Rear  TAG1157-1
Rear (HPE & Berlina) TAG1158-1