Lancia Beta Forum

General Category => Members Cars => Topic started by: peteracs on October 02, 2012, 02:14:49 PM



Title: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 02, 2012, 02:14:49 PM
Hi All

I started the restoration posts to the LMC site back in 2010 after I bought the Spyder, but towards the end of 2010 other things took over and 2011 was a washout and only started doing stuff again earlier this year, albeit at a fairly slow speed. I have decided to copy the old posts to here and then attempt to carry on with reports on how it is going, likely to be a long road as I spend 10 weeks a year in France, have a large garden to help with and other weekends are taken up with other activities usually, so grabbing time during the week is my only chance, luckily I work just across the grass from the house and garage, so popping over for a couple of hours is not too hard if I get the time. Target for getting on the road is 2013 late Spring..... (I wish!)

Hopefully some folk will find it useful/entertaining and apologies for those who have suffered it before, but wanted to keep in one place where most of the Beta folk will get access, rather than in the LMC where the Beta traffic appears quite light.

Also apologies for lack of photos from when we bought it as I completely forgot and the bodywork guys only took local shots to illustrate the before/after shots. Eventually there are ones of the full car!

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 02, 2012, 02:19:04 PM
Hi All

I thought it may be useful to document the adventure I have had with the purchase and renovation of a Series 2 pre Facelift Spyder I bought earlier this year. Hopefully it will be of use to some and amusement to others maybe.....

First a bit of history which will hopefully set the scene for the purchase in the first place.

Many moons ago (1979/80) when I was the tender age of 23/24 in my second job as a technical sales engineer in a very small electronics company, I was given one of the directors hand me downs, a lovely bright red Beta HPE 2000 complete with the mustard colour seats - wife liked the car, not the interior (must have been designed by a man she mutters) . Now to be given a car like that when you are just starting out was pretty special and memorable. Probably the most memorable thing was the 'switch' on the accelerator where if you gradually pressed to accelerate things started to happen and then there was this point where the accelerator suddenly became very stiff and required a fair amount of pressure to hit the second choke and then what seemed like all hell broke loose. Great fun! The other thing about the HPE was how practical a car it was (we actually slept in the back with the seats down one time, quite comfy).

So you may ask, why have I gone for a Spyder, not the HPE? Well there was one memorable day, mid summer, gloriously warm when the HPE went in for a service and the loan car was an old beat up Spyder. Now this was real fun, open top and loads of go (as it appeared then). We had a good run around that evening in the car as the HPE was not ready for collection until the next day and the memory has stuck with me since.

After that I moved onto more sober cars and have always had to have more practical cars eg estates for work, dogs etc ever since. Also as I used to drive a fair amount of miles each year with work, I soon learnt that automatics were preferable in terms of tiredness and relaxed driving compared to manuals. The other issues with having an older car was that budgets were always allocated to moving on up the housing ladder/redecoration/extensions and until recently I did not have a garage to store any older car in either.

Now fast forward to the beginning of this year and a combination of things meant that I could satisfy my ever growing ache for an old car. I now have suitable dry garage space, my father in law left us some money on passing away, some of which my wife wanted me to spend on something for myself, the current house is pretty well sorted and work is relatively quiet and I have time to spend on a project other than work.

I enlisted the help of a neighbour who spends his time buying/selling/playing around with old sports cars and bits thereof and we started looking on Ebay and other online places for a suitable Spyder. The idea was to buy something which needed some work and a repaint, but not a complete shed. Surprisingly around the beginning of the year several opportunities presented themselves, but for one reason or another we could not visit them to see if they were suitable (experience teaches you that pictures lie or at the very least conceal the truth, never the other way it appears). We finally saw one on Ebay which was a white 1600 and had the right sort of 'feeling'. It was advertised as a runner, but garaged for 10 years, run out of the garage every so often to check it was ok. The car was for sale by the son of the owner who had owned it for many years, although not the original owner from new. The mileage was down as 24000 which I still am not convinced by, but cannot prove either way. We visited it and noted the bad news with the floor pan, cracked windscreen, needed replacement lights (silvering gone) and some sill work, but that was sort of expected. It was complete and pretty original which was important. So I duly bid and won it against mainly traders for the princely sum of £913. I hired a trailer and collected the end of March 2010. So far so good and exciting times were to come, should have it road worthy by summer (or so I thought)!!

I will try to hunt out pictures of the original HPE and scan them, also I lost the original pictures of the car as purchased, but have asked if the seller can let me have any, so will post when/if I get them.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 02, 2012, 02:24:15 PM
Failed miserably on the HPE photo front, all the photos from that era have decayed and are of no use... No news on the sellers photos yet.

My original thoughts on how to restore the car was to send away to a specialist bodywork/painter and have all that side handled professionally, to organise the trimming with another specialist and I would handle the mechanical & electrical stuff which I felt quite happy to cope with.

So with the car all safely tucked away in my garage, I decided to ask a friend of my neighbour, who has been in the restoration business, specifically the bodywork and painting side for a number of years (John), to have a look at the car. He had recently teamed up with a young guy (Tom) who was a bit of a genius on the 'forming anything out a sheet of metal' group. I have to confess I have no idea how these people can take a sheet of metal, realtively simple tools and form the complex shapes such as bottom of sills etc, my limit is definitely drilling holes and polishing as far as bodywork is concerned.

After looking at the car for a while his question was, do I want it to be tidied up for now so I can get on a use it or have a more serious restore which would obviously cost more and take more time? Being somewhat niave I said that a tidy up was my idea, but could he have a look at the front wings as they did not appear to fit too well. We agreed a price based on an hourly rate and that I would strip off as much as possible to reduce his time spent on it. At this time it was generally felt a cost of £2.5-£3k was likely. All was good with the world and I set too enthusiastically stripping off anything which was not painted. Also I removed the broken windscreen which was  trial in itself (is there an easy way?).

The car was then collected during May and they commenced work on it. It was not long before I received a call saying that after hitting the internal floor with a cleaning wheel that the job was likely to be somewhat longer than originally anticipated. I knew about the drivers side footwell, but the pasenger side was also bad and that the rear passenger areas which we knew about were also much worse. Below are some photos of the internal horrors unveiled.



Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 02, 2012, 02:32:03 PM
A few more


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 02, 2012, 02:32:39 PM
More



Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 02, 2012, 02:36:14 PM
Some of the sills


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 03, 2012, 04:54:15 PM
So having reached this point with the interior, John and Tom pressed on with the front end, specifically the wings which were to be removed. It was at this point where a major decision had to be made as the wings had hidden a whole load of previous bodge work which was almost impossible to see. The inner wings were pretty bad with a repair to one of the suspension turrets being simply two pieces of metal 'stuck' on top of each other, ie very little support on one side for the suspension mount and if the car had been used would pobably have resulted in the strut coming through the bonnet at worst. The other most amusing thing was the weights of the wings. One was approx twice the weight of the other - great stuff filler....

So the decision was made to not simply 'tidy up', but to spend some real time on sorting out properly the parts which required it. This would mean the whole project would take a significantly longer time to complete, more money as ever and hopefully be a better car at the end.

A few snaps to illustrate what was hidden below!


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 03, 2012, 04:55:05 PM
2 more


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 03, 2012, 04:57:35 PM
Whilst John & Tom were beavering away I had been on the lookout for a donor car for the bits which I knew I needed and for the bits I did not know I needed yet, but sure as eggs are eggs, I would need some extra parts. The main problem I found with this approach was that I had bought a Series 2 pre Facelift car, the interior of which I much prefer to the later cars, and pretty much all of the cheap cars I saw available for breaking at the time were the later facelift versions. This meant that I was going to have to use the interior I had as the facelft is completely different. The main items I was after however were the front headlight clusters, some oddments of wiring, rear light clusters and a decent windscreen. I figured that they alone were going to cost the best part of £200, so when a car came along for not that much more than that, I bought it. The parts were duly removed (fortunately the parts car had severe rust around the screen, so the windscreen came out complete with the sealing gunk without any real forcing). I had assumed that the windscreen was the same for all Series 2 cars which luckily was correct! The car also had a half reasonable exhaust and as mine was pretty shot thought it might come in useful as a starter before I splash out on a full stainless version. As it happened Stuart Read on the forum offered one for a good price which after I agreed to buy it he kindly dropped off at my place. So I now have a decent one to use which should last a few seasons + usable spare.

Back to the bodywork. After some clearing out in the boot and sills another batch of holes appeared and the ones which we sort of knew about in the outer/upper door sills which needed attention, see pics below.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 03, 2012, 04:58:17 PM
+2


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 03, 2012, 04:58:43 PM
+1


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 04, 2012, 07:55:05 AM
We had decided at the start not to delve too deep into the external sections of the rear end of the car which appeared solid, albeit with some evidence of previous repair, so a straight forward paint was all that was decided upon. The final parts to clean up were the doors, bonnet, front valance, around the windscreen and rear over bar. The windscreen channel was in good condition and the over bar had some rust, but not too serious. The front valance required some work, though pretty solid and the bonnet had had previous repairs/filling done  on the front edge and in the absence of a suitable replacement it was decided to patch up as best as possible, as trying to weld extra  metal onto the bonnet could result in it distorting and hence being unusable (having no knowledge of welding, I had to bow to those who should know). The bonnet on the spares car was also poor and was the later 2000 version with the raised centre section, so not useful as a replacement.

The original idea with the doors was to leave the stainless trim in place and tidy up around it. With the work to be done having expanded, I felt it was pointless going through the other work and not removing the trim and sorting out the issues below, as it transpired this was the best course of action as the pictures show, the corrosion beneath the trim was much more significant than you would have imagined from just looking at it in its original state. The rest of the doors were in good condition thankfully.

So we now had a starting point for putting it back together.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 04, 2012, 07:55:39 AM
+2


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 04, 2012, 07:55:53 AM
+2


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 04, 2012, 07:57:33 AM
As I have quite a few photos of most of the work done, I will post each section of the car repaired with a before/during/after where possible to show how the repair was effected. I guess for some/most this may be tedious, but for anyone hoping to do any similar work you may find it useful. As a non welder myself I find it amazing what can be achieved with a piece of metal, welder and grinder.

Firstly, one of the decisions which I had to make was the replacement wings. We tried to source some new metal wings 'off the shelf' without success and did not want to use 'used' ones. John came up with Smith & Deakin Plastics of Worcester who had fibreglass ones available as a stock part. He had previous experience with the company and was confident they would be of a high quality both in shape and in mannufacture. As the budget was already exploding and the only obvious alternative was to have a pair custom made, I plumbed for the fibreglass ones. If I had wanted to keep the car truly original, then not a decision I would have taken, but at the end of the day it is for just me to run around in, so a reasonable compromise I felt.

At the same time as this, an edict from the wife was ringing in my ears, that if the car was 'tat' she was not going near it. So I truned my time to sorting out the trimming of the seats. The seats in the Pre F/L are of what my neighbour calls 'a funky design'. I have to agree in that altough they do not hug you like the later seats, they do have a period style to them which is different to most more modern seats. The original meterial in the card was vinyl throughout and the covering on the drivers side had definitely seen better days. Given that the car was mainly to be garaged when not being used and it was to be used mainly during the summer, vinyl was not looking too attractive as a replacement material and I started asking one or two companies the cost of replacing the covering with leather. I wanted to keep the colours pretty much as they were which was the tanny coloured seats with mixture of the tan and dark brown on the door cards, A & B posts etc. I felt this went well with the brown of the dash/instrument cluster/steering wheel.

After I had a couple of rough quotes, a chance conversation with one of my friends in the village brought up a contact he knew in Melton who although he works for a large trimmer, also takes on private work in the evenings. When I found out he also had 40+ years as a trimmer, had his own company for 20+ years and his pricing was very attractive for the seats/leather purchase, I sent the seats off to be done as a starter, with the intention of having the rest of the cards etc done if the seats came out ok. Never having had any seats trimmed before and hearing the odd horror story from various people I spoke to about it, I felt it was a step into the dark with only a gut feel that it would be ok.......


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 04, 2012, 07:59:46 AM
Here are a few photos of the front drivers footwell repair, before/during/after


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 04, 2012, 08:00:51 AM
Now we have a hole, fill it


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 04, 2012, 08:01:27 AM
And finished


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 04, 2012, 08:05:38 AM
And the passenger side ......


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 04, 2012, 08:06:14 AM
+2


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 04, 2012, 08:06:46 AM
Finished floor pan


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 05, 2012, 11:47:43 AM
These are the passenger side rear seat area. As well as sorting the panels, a new rear seatbelt fixing plate was fabricated and included for both sides. The old ones were well corroded. Again the finished job had the matting applied as a last job.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 05, 2012, 11:48:18 AM
+2


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 05, 2012, 11:49:02 AM
+2


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 05, 2012, 11:49:41 AM
And finally we get here


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: MattNoVAT on October 07, 2012, 01:25:27 PM
I'm impressed with the rear turret/arch repair and also the floorpan.  It would have been easy to just weld a flat steel plate in the floor but they have replicated the original floor shape, its details like that that make all the difference IMHO.

I'm keen to see how the repairs on the doors go, the usual place for the start of the decay... it looks a challenge but am sure it can be repaired.

You are right not to weld repair sectioning into the bonnet - this is very tricky as the panels distort due to the heat. I had this issue when I had the holes for the two badges on the boot welded up, so the panel beater had to spend time putting that right after the welding was completed.   I now prefer to cut the pins off the back of the badges and stick them on with body adhesive (Masterbond)  The holes for those pins are the weak spot and the starting point for the rot.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 09, 2012, 12:09:09 PM
Hi Matt

Yes Tom was a bit of  wizz on the english wheel, I was told. All of the panels apart from the wings were fabricated by them.

So on with the rest of the work.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 09, 2012, 12:23:12 PM
Now the drivers side rear seat..


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 09, 2012, 12:23:53 PM
+2


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 09, 2012, 12:24:34 PM
+2


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 09, 2012, 12:25:09 PM
+2


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 09, 2012, 12:32:04 PM
The final photos are of the repair work around the rear turrets, but in the boot. Note they had to cut out a section of the rear passenger bulkhead to gain access to the corroded area around some of the nearside rear turrent.

Near side rear turret photos first


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 09, 2012, 12:32:37 PM
+2


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 09, 2012, 12:33:12 PM
+2


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 09, 2012, 12:36:58 PM
Drivers side rear turret in the boot


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 09, 2012, 12:37:34 PM
+2


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 10, 2012, 07:36:43 AM
Moving on to the front wings. The inner wing on the near side was not particularly bad (unlike the drivers side), here are the photos of the repair


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 10, 2012, 07:37:17 AM
+2


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 10, 2012, 07:37:55 AM
+2


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 10, 2012, 08:39:10 AM
The driver's inner wing proved to be a whole load more work than the passenger side. Apart from a distinct lack of metal, there was a patch to around the turret which was not even welded fully and was downright dangerous.... Not an MOT  pass I feel.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 10, 2012, 08:39:49 AM
+2


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 10, 2012, 08:40:42 AM
+3


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 10, 2012, 09:01:59 AM
After sorting the turret, on with the bulkhead end and building up around the turret area.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 10, 2012, 09:02:39 AM
+2


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 10, 2012, 09:03:27 AM
+3


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 10, 2012, 04:31:12 PM
And last but not least a patchwork quilt to sort out the headlamp end. Simples (for some I guess!)


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 10, 2012, 04:31:56 PM
+3


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 10, 2012, 04:32:49 PM
+3


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: MattNoVAT on October 10, 2012, 04:45:40 PM
I was lucky enough to find a new Coupe inner wing in Austria, which save me from the pain of having one fabricated. 

I weighed up the cost of the inner wing against the amount of time spent repairing it in sections and figured that it had to be more cost effective to chop out the old and weld in the new.  Your man seems to be cracking on at a fair pace or has this all happened and your posting up pics in sequence?


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 10, 2012, 06:52:03 PM
I was lucky enough to find a new Coupe inner wing in Austria, which save me from the pain of having one fabricated. 

I weighed up the cost of the inner wing against the amount of time spent repairing it in sections and figured that it had to be more cost effective to chop out the old and weld in the new.  Your man seems to be cracking on at a fair pace or has this all happened and your posting up pics in sequence?

Hi Matt

All of this was originally posted in 2010 on the LMC site, just never updated it past what they did and decided it was better placed here so am transferring what I listed then. I will then follow up with the work I have done since then, which is not as dramatic and taken a much longer time. The car was with the guys to do the bodywork and painting from around end of May to August and they spent around 200 hours on it from memory.

I was not really aware at the time where to go to get/ask for parts and as such we decided to press on with self fab work which as it turned out was a good job, albeit expensive, though at the time I had the money to play with so no complaints about that.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: MattNoVAT on October 10, 2012, 09:07:30 PM
I had a blonde moment Peter, my apologies - I went back to the very start and read the first two posts...which explains everything.

So how far is the car along now?  Are you staying with the original white body colour?


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 10, 2012, 09:29:01 PM
Hi Matt

Currently there is less in it than when the guys returned it to me back in Aug 2010, which sounds as though nothing much has happened, but I decided that as I had gone this far, I might as well go further and tidy up a whole lot before putting it back together. So I now have fully stripped out the main cabin including the dash and heater. The tank has been removed, cleaned and painted, the underneath has been cleaned and painted. The boot has been cleaned, painted and some waxoyl added. The main cabin floor and bulkheads have been painted and waxoyl has been added where I can get. One job I had done was have a windscreen installed and then realised that the trim needed to be put in first, then the screen glued in.... So out it came again, a pain, but there we go.

I had all the seats covered in leather and the door cards, console and rear parcel shelf covered in vinyl and some leather on the cards. Also replaced a lot of the electrical connectors in the engine bay and the boot.

Currently about to start putting the boot and tank back in, so the long road putting it back together starts......

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 10, 2012, 10:35:51 PM
Hi Matt

Oops forgot the colour question, staying with as near to the original Lancia colour white as we can. the car when bought had what my guy called a fridge white which was a 80/90s respray and was keen to go for a more original colour. We went for base coat and lacquer finish due to some issues they had during spraying, and then polished the lacquer to give an old polished finish.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 11, 2012, 07:48:35 AM
Moving along, we (that is the Royal 'we' of course) attacked the door sills. The main area of problem is that area directly below the A post where all the water from the wheels gets blasted against the end of the sill/inner wing. Having looked at a couple of Spiders it is one of the classic places for some serious rust. The pictures pretty much say it all, a) how bad is was b) how it was built up in stages to a pretty impressive end result (to my novice eyes anyway). First up is the passenger side


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 11, 2012, 07:49:30 AM
+3


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 11, 2012, 07:50:15 AM
+3


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 11, 2012, 07:51:06 AM
+3


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 11, 2012, 07:51:32 AM
+1


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 11, 2012, 03:11:11 PM
And the drivers side, pretty much the same at the end of the sill, but also there was some significant repairs needed to the upper part of the sill both back and front which required some more of the 'hand made parts' to be manufactured.

Rear part of the sill/door first


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 11, 2012, 03:11:45 PM
+2


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 11, 2012, 03:14:40 PM
Moving on to the front part of the drivers sill the repair here was to both the upper part of the sill next to the A post and the area where the sill meets the inner front wing.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 11, 2012, 03:15:36 PM
+3


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 11, 2012, 03:16:20 PM
+2


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 11, 2012, 03:18:46 PM
As a slight aside from the main body, here is the repair to the battery box which I guess has suffered from either an accumulation of water or/as well as a leaking battery at some stage.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 11, 2012, 03:19:32 PM
+3


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 15, 2012, 08:49:48 AM
Ok, back to the wings. Attached to the rear of the inner front wings is a plate which I guess is designed to catch all the crap thrown up by the wheel. These were as you would imagine in a poor state, so new ones were fabricated and fitted. As we were using fibreglass wings which would 'rub' against these plates, the outer edge has had some rubber 'padding' added to reduce wear on the wings (not shown).


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 15, 2012, 08:50:21 AM
+2


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: MattNoVAT on October 15, 2012, 10:30:15 AM
The original splash guards also had a rubber strip stapled (yes, stapled!) the the outer edge.  I guess to stop friction on the main outer wing but also to form a rudimentary seal against the water coming off the road wheel.  This seal fails dismally and those original splash guards usually rot out at the bottom and expose the front leading edge of the sill to water and you end up with a nice little collection of damp mud/grit where the tinworm lives.

BTW - I recognise those pictures Peter!  ;D


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 15, 2012, 02:22:25 PM
The original splash guards also had a rubber strip stapled (yes, stapled!) the the outer edge.  I guess to stop friction on the main outer wing but also to form a rudimentary seal against the water coming off the road wheel.  This seal fails dismally and those original splash guards usually rot out at the bottom and expose the front leading edge of the sill to water and you end up with a nice little collection of damp mud/grit where the tinworm lives.

BTW - I recognise those pictures Peter!  ;D

Matt, yes you asked about them I think some time ago. Will be getting onto the work done on the doors very soon......

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on December 05, 2012, 05:58:11 PM
Bit of a long wait, but finally have some time to log some more of the work done.

Next up was the front valance. This was not too bad, but had some rusted away parts which were 'rebuilt'. The final picture shows during the spraying.



Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on December 05, 2012, 06:05:50 PM
On to the wings. These, as was mentioned before, were fibreglass (cost & availability) and on offering up two issues were apparent.

1) The fit to the valance required the valance to be 'adjusted', there were one or two other small adjustments required to allow a snug fit to the rest of the body, though not too significant.

2) The lower part of the wing near the A post did not fit the profile required at all. I guess that the wing pattern is off either a Coupe or HPE. Either way, it had to be cut and reshaped to allow the lower trim to fit. This was achieved with some ally and rivets. The end result was a pretty good fit, including around the headlights, which although still not as tight as some I have seen, was a big improvement over what we originally had. Photos show the mod and the wings fitted after spraying and the grill & lights fitted. As this was a pre F/L 1600 it had the chromed grill and headlight surrounds. Sadly the original headlight surrounds were broken where the screw fixes and the grill had been painted before. We had a couple of later black headlight surrounds, so cleaned them up and the grill which was a bit of a mess and painted both with 'silver' paint. End result is good in my eyes, but probably not as good as original. One has to compromise on somethings......


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on December 05, 2012, 06:06:48 PM
+3


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on December 27, 2016, 11:38:00 AM
Hi All

Well I thought it was time I resurrected this thread to give an update and to record what has happened to date.....

The original posts look to have been made in 2012, but all of the work up to that point were actually completed by the bodywork and paint guys up to late August 2010 if my memory serves me well.

From that point it was over to me to do the rest and that has lead to a very slow progression which I will try to itemise below. The main problem for me as for many was trying to juggle work and home life with trying to spend time on the car. I have had significant periods where I just gave up on the car to concentrate on earning enough to allow me to finish full time work, which I achieved earlier this year. Work on the car has therefore progressed somewhat more the latter part of this year than for some significant time. As to target dates for completion, who knows, but 2017 is looking sort of do-able if I keep on with it through the winter months.

I will try to dig out any photos I have made over the years, but in truth there are not that many. I will post a few of where we are now which in truth does not look so different albeit with a lot of cleaning and painting having been done.

So on to what I have managed to achieve so far......

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on December 27, 2016, 11:47:53 AM
One of the things I realised very early on after getting the car back was I should have stripped it down fully when we realised it would take a huge amount of effort and cost to repair the bodywork, lesson learnt for the next project!!

So list of work carried out, bound to miss a few things, but here we go...

Remove petrol tank, cleaned outside (wire brush in drill mainly) and painted with Hammerite and Waxoyl, checked sensor and inside for rust, none obvious inside or much outside, happy camper as hard to replace. Also cleaned and painted the filler petrol pipe and replaced the pipe work in the spill prevention arrangement.

Removed most of the inside that was left including dash etc, leaving steering column and cabling. Cleaned (mainly wire brush) and painted all of the inside with Hammerite.

In general the wires were ok, so just replaced all of the connectors with new and soldered and crimped them to ensure decent connection, amazing how many connectors there are. Also used slip on covers for the connectors. A lot of the sellers just sell the crimp only type with pre fit covers which are no use if you want to solder them.

Cleaned up the front and rear bumpers and painted the none stainless parts, also tidied up the rear number plate lights and have replaced the bulbs with Led ones.

Cleaned the rear lights, both had some tape over part of them. One had cracked lenses, so was unusable. These are the early style ones with the smaller red reflector. Fortunately I organised with Angelo in Oz to swap a newly refurbished one for the cracked one, so now have two almost perfect ones which was a full result as they are really hard to find without cracks.

The boot was cleaned and painted with Hammerite.

The car had the original rubber mats unlike later cars with carpet which is a neat item in my book as has a large Zagato 'Z' mounded into the main one. There were some tears which I have used inner tube repair patches to mend, not sure if this will endure, but better than nothing.

All the wiring in the boot and the most of the main compartment has been wrapped with loom tape, the engine bay will be done with the same when the engine bay is put back together.

The front suspension has been removed, the struts stripped down, but dampers left in. These are the removable type so can be replaced if needed. I spent a while sorting out the bearing at the top of the strut. One of them was shot, the other ok. Sourcing one was a trial, finally finding one with a guy in the US, but he did not have a seal for it, but managed to find one in a box of parts that came from a scrap car I bought, do not look forward to finding any more..... The struts were cleaned and painted as were the springs, they look nice now, no idea how long it will last.

The lower wishbones had the bushes replaced with PU parts which fit a 355 Ferrari, see other thread on this subject. I also replaced the lower ball joint.

I stripped the hubs and replaced the bearings, again an interesting hunt for genuine European parts, the original rings were a weird design with no obvious tool available, so replaced with bearing rings from Mark. I had to get the local garage to press the bearings out and replace with new ones. The CV boots were shot, so sourced new CV joints and boots, but despite getting the correct part number they all tend to be different and so far have only one that fits ok, hopefully I should have a second soon.

The rack had the centre boot all corroded as normal by the heat from the exhaust, so removed it, cleaned and rebuilt with new centre boot and filled with fresh oil. Freed up the track rod adjusters and installed new track rod ends.

Underneath was cleaned with drill with wire brush as good I as could, then painted and Waxoyl'd, very mucky job.

The front subframe was cleaned the best I could and painted in situ, so not the easiest or best way, but at least it has some protection. Same for the main engine bay. In order to do this a lot of parts were removed including the servo and brake master cylinder. This master cylinder was rebuilt with new seals supplied by Lukas, who also supplied the seals for the brake cylinders which one of the current jobs partly finished.

The engine has been degreased as best I could with it in situ. Various parts have been removed, cleaned and if needed painted to help prevent father rust. These include -

Two off water rails, starter motor, alternator, fuel pump, sump, oil pump, cam covers, various brackets.

The front lights were removed and the metal parts all cleaned and painted. I accidentally broke one of the lenses so need to replace it, it was not original, but I may just replace with matching set.

The screen was originally installed after the spraying, however it had to removed as the roof lining needs to be installed before the screen is refitted.

The old rear hood was pretty poor, so sourced one from a US supplier. I went for a canvas style rather than vinyl. I cleaned up and painted the frame and installed the new hood, not too happy with my work, so may have to refit, still have issues with clips not latching ok, but have left for the time being as plenty of other jobs to be getting on with.

The wheel arches have had stone chip applied, but do aim to fit liners from later cars to at least the front to aid in keeping them rot free.....

The wiper mechanism was removed, cleaned and greased. Where they come through the scuttle the bushes were pretty crudded up and would have made the wipers very slow, suspect it is a very common problem.

Think that is all for now..... Hopefully more to follow



Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on January 11, 2017, 05:28:57 PM
Here are a three photos as of today.... Not great quality as taken on iPhone


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on January 11, 2017, 07:09:35 PM
Great to see a wonderful Spyder coming together I wish Mine was at this stage.

Eric


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: HFStuart on January 11, 2017, 09:06:12 PM
Starting to look good!


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: smithymc on January 11, 2017, 10:42:53 PM
Very nice Peter. That is going to be lovely.

Keep it up.

Mark



Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: SIMid on January 12, 2017, 05:20:55 AM
Wow!!

What a job, but done so well!!


Title: Re:
Post by: dommorello on January 17, 2017, 01:40:56 PM
Looking good! Let's hope not too far off driving!! Keep up great work!!

Sent from my HTC 2PS6200 using Tapatalk


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 04, 2017, 02:24:27 PM
Hi

Ok, bit more of an update, managed to get regular time on the car now, even with the cold temperatures (not too wet thankfully), I have to work with the garage doors open so pray for light winds.......

Jobs done since the last update, again bound to miss a few, but here goes. There are some much better photos from a real camera attached of the engine bay as of today.

Tidied up the wiring loom in the cabin around the steering column. Had to drop the column as where it passes over the column support was very tight. Found that it had previously had a small 'mod' done to the two indicator wires , they appear to have been cut and a piece of wire inserted (maybe due to chaffing?), the method of connection was twist the wires together, tape with insulating tape and hope...... Replaced with soldered joints and heat shrink, then the whole lot loom taped up to where it emerges into the engine bay.

Installed the steering column bulkhead seal when I worked out what it looked like, then put the steering column and rack all tightened up (after I sorted the foot brake and clutch mechanisms, see below).

Installed the fusebox support and started installing the fusebox and nearby relays, however need to get a decent blowup of the wiring circuit made as there are way too many red wires..... and there is little slack in the wiring at this point. The wiring in the engine bay as you can see is a complete rats nest at the moment, will need to have the tape taken off all and relaid out then taped up when I have the fusebox and relays installed.

Jobs now turned to the engine bay.

Removed, painted, greased and replaced the clutch and foot brake mechanisms. This is a right hand car, so a bit more to it than left hand ones I think. Clutch cable greased the best I could. A pretty fiddly job for the foot brake and having the column loose helped.

Removed the clutch cable tripod piece on the gearbox, cleaned and painted, then found it was twisted, so had to start again with one of a spare engine..... Removed, cleaned and painted the gear lever on the top of the gearbox, also removed the clutch activation lever which was and absolute pig. It has splines and they were rusted, had to leave soaking in WD40 for about 5 days, eventually it came off. Now cleaned and painted. Bothe the clutch and gear lever have had Copperslip applied so they should come off easily next time....

Clutch cable installed with its protecting grommet near the battery box.

Installed the already cleaned and painted cowling for the radiator, the radiator and the electric fan. Checked out what pipe work I had and ordered some new stainless jubilee clips. Still need the odd pipe to replace poor ones, but will get around to that soon.

Installed the already painted bonnet stay and the spring loop for the bonnet.

Installed the bonnet angle pieces which go from the strut tops to the front of the car.

Then a major event. I had previously installed one of the update kits for the gear linkage and now actually installed all the gear change items from the gear lever in the cabin to the gear lever on the gearbox. This includes the swivel arrangement just below the rack at the back of the engine. I thought I may have to take the rack out, but thankfully there is just enough room. Various parts were cleaned and painted along the way and plenty of grease applied to the swivel and the metal joints of the connecting bar supplied with the kit. All looks very tidy to my eyes (see photo).

That will do for now, but next up are getting the hubs back together, that is for the next post......

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: HFStuart on March 04, 2017, 02:38:02 PM
It's really coming together. Don't forget to connect the reversing light switch while you can get to it!


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 04, 2017, 03:25:40 PM
It's really coming together. Don't forget to connect the reversing light switch while you can get to it!

Hi Stuart

Thanks, yes easy enough with the side panel off and no battery tray.

On that subject the guys who restored the body actually welded the battery tray onto the supports, all well and good unless you want to get the engine out I think, so that is why the supports are a mess, I drilled out the welds. Have to trim the supports and sort some sort of brackets for the battery tray. I have a fresh one all painted ready to go on when the time is right!

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 06, 2017, 09:03:52 AM
Hi All

A wet Sunday here, so what would normally be a garden day, has been swapped for a car day (the garden day is now Monday, i.e. today....)

One of the jobs I was least looking forward to was tightening the hub nuts up tight enough. I know the effort required to get them off which resulted in a visit to the local garage. The main issue was how to fasten the hub with putting strain on the gearbox etc. So.... I dreamt up a framework using angle iron, in the end all I actually needed was a decent piece of old angle iron (the remnants of one of my neighbours gates as it happens) drilled to accept two of the hub bolts and relieved so the socket would fit on the nut. This was fastened using some old hub bolts which were packed with washers and I used the spacer which goes in front on the disc normally to pack them out so there was just the thread showing and did not stick out the back of the hub too much. Then you could tighten it all up nicely. Photo of it in situ below. I could then apply a load of effort to the nut with out undue strain to the drivetrain. I am lucky enough to have a monster torque wrench (see below) which just goes up to the required torque. With this all in place it was a very simple job to torque up to the correct value, a great relief all round.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 06, 2017, 09:07:08 AM
After that it was fairly plain sailing to assemble the new disks, spacers, brake yoke and the already rebuilt calipers using Copperslip on the wedge pieces to hope keep them from seizing in future. Both sides completed by the end of the day. Only job now are the brake pipes and final connection of the roll (sway) bar. Altogether a satisfying day.
 


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: smithymc on March 06, 2017, 11:28:23 AM
Inspirational stuff Peter- keep it going!

Makes my fiddling with window regulators and Rev counters seem pretty minor- not that any of it has been successful- yet.

Mark


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: mangocrazy on March 06, 2017, 03:25:20 PM
Very much liking the 'special tool' to get the hub nuts tightened up, Peter. Using the mass of the car as mechanical advantage (or disadvantage, depending on your view). Must try and remember that one. We had a similarly wet Sunday, which I used as a carb, thermostat and exhaust day (but motorbike, not car).


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 06, 2017, 04:19:38 PM
One thing I forgot to mention was the wishbone ball joint. As with the CV joint, different suppliers/manufacturers, all saying for the Beta.

I already had a new one from a few years ago which fits really nicely and looks like the originals on the car, the second one I ordered end of last year and it was a Delphi part TC195 which according to info is 100% for the car. It fits into the hole just fine and locates on the hole in the hub again perfect, the problem is that when tightened the stud part protrudes too far and interferes with the CV joint, not too useful. In the interest of actually making progress and the next one may also have issues, I cut just over 5mm from the top of the stud part, now fits perfectly. If you need to make this mod, do not forget to put a nut on BEFORE you cut the thread and then file down the rough edge. This makes putting the nut back on a whole lot simpler. On the ball joint there is obviously no spanner point on the stud, so I used a bit of an old rubber pipe wrapped round the tapered section and held it with grips, that way you can screw/unscrew the nut without damaging the taper.

Peter


Title: Re:
Post by: dommorello on March 08, 2017, 09:16:50 AM
Great work Peter! Awesome progress. In our experience great to get thinks fitted but as like your issue with rack ya can't get to excited once something has been fitted as it is most probably going to come off again to fit something else. Keep up good work!!

Sent from my HTC 2PS6200 using Tapatalk


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 19, 2017, 02:34:49 PM
Not much achieved recently as had some work work and refurbishing a kitchen and cleaning a flat to do, all very boring and getting in the way..... Still they do bring in some useful cash.

Anyway enough of my moaning. I made a little progress to date.

1) Ordered and received the T pieces for the heater pipework mod, see photo. Going to refit the heater before I sort out the pipework.

2) Installed the new HEL brake flexible hoses which I ordered ages ago from Camskill. The original ones were incorrect, had to return and send a pattern. The replacements are spot on. a couple of points -

           a) They do not have the small locating dowel of the originals which locate on the calliper. I do not think this is a big issue.
           b) The end which attaches to the inner wing have a round profile with a nut at one end, the original Beta ones have two flats for using a
               spanner. This means the locating bracket on the inner wing are also not fully round. The solution is a small amount of fettling with a round
               file to make them fit. The original retaining clips are a perfect fit on the new hoses.
           c) There is a retaining clip on the strut for the two hoses. I reused the original rubber grommet, but the hoses are much thinner than the
               originals, so I used some old inner tube to pad out the hose and make it a snug fit. I also had to slit the old rubber grommet to get it off
               the original hoses, so I used a ty-wrap to hold the long thin end together. End result I think is quite neat and should do the job.



Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 19, 2017, 02:50:43 PM
One thing I did manage to have a play with last week, which is my next task, is to look to replace all the brakes pipes.

Never have tried this before, so leap in the dark. I have a Bubble flaring tool by Sykes Pickavant which I was given by my father and have bought a couple of bending tools, pipe cutter and a number of screw ends. Until I started looking I did not realise there were different 'flares' used on brake lines, the 'Bubble" being the one used on moderns normally and older European cars from what I can understand.

So far results have been 1 x really good one, several average to poor ones made. I need to get some more practice before I go for broke on the long lengths. It looks like I need to measure the length and make up one end before I start bending as some of the routing will be a challenge and will not leave much room to flare the end after bending in situ.

Here are the two bending tools, happy with the yellow one, will have to go carefully with the blue handled one which is handy when there is not a lot of room to effect a bend.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on January 27, 2020, 11:14:20 AM
Hi All

Well, long time since I posted an update and in reality a long time since I did any work on the car. Reasons were mainly down to all change at home. We decided in 2017 to move house i.e. downsize and I was going to reduce my hours of paid for work (I work for myself) and was spending a fair amount of time getting into road cycling as well. We moved house eventually back end of 2018 which entailed not only a house move, but moving all my Beta spares and garage contents to my parents house, putting all my work computer stock into a large rental container (we bought and sold second user computer gear). Then we started making the mods to the new house which has taken just over a year. Part of this means I have sorted out the new (double) garage to be reasonably draft proof via a roller shutter door which makes winter work most acceptable especially with a small space heater, changed all the strip lights to LEDs ones, which was a great result, reduced the doubles to singles for essentially the same light output as the old fluorescents and sealed the concrete floor to reduce the dust.

The Beta was moved across early in 2019 and has been just covered up until recently.

Middle of the year I had to do a large service on the Saab which was due including usual oil change etc, but also included the cam belt, brake fluid and auto gearbox oil replacement, none of which I had done before on it, so big learning curve especially the cam belt which involves a fair amount of parts to be removed. It would have been easier if I could have moved the Beta outside, so pretty cramped. Eventually all sorted and the Saab is now outside under a protective cover when not in use which is most of the time.....

So around November last year I managed top start work on the Beta. I still have the water pipework to finish, but decided to start on the last big job underneath which is the rear suspension. So there followed several days of trying and eventually succeeding in removing the rear hubs, brakes and struts. The retaining bolts between the struts and the hub proved to be very hard work, some taking a good hour or more to remove with liberal application of easing fluid and a pry bar etc. The end result was everything was removed except the rear suspension arms which attach to the centre of the car. On inspection the bushes appear good and replacing one of the bushes in these arms was an absolute pain, so they will remain as is. The other item which was not really worn, just old, was the rear disks, which were just rusty, but no obvious wear, unlike the fronts.

The rest of the items including dampers (original replaceable type fortunately), hub bearings, callipers, spring top metal plates and hub retaining rings are to be replaced/resealed. I was fortunate to have a couple of the rear callipers which did not have the bleed nipples sealed and look ok. I also have a new seal kit for them.

One item I almost left alone was the rear brake balancer fixed to the rear anti roll bar. This adjusts the effort to the rear brakes when the car 'lifts' at the back. I decided to remove it and very pleased I did. There is a plunger in the unit operated vi a bar from the anti roll bar and covered with a rubber boot. Under this boot I guess it should be filled with grease, but on mine after 40 years, this was just powder and the plunger was completely stuck. I was considering referring the unit with new seals, but failing to be able to open it up and then finding these are still available new and only costing £14 from a seller on Ebay, I just bought a new one. These are used on some Citroen cars apparently as well as Fiats.

I have spent the last 3 months therefore removing, cleaning and repainting where necessary the rear suspension. A few still to do and I still have to clean and paint in the wings, especially the top of the turrets which are not too bad, but need some protection before I reassemble the whole thing.

I will post some photos of the parts as I have them now when I get chance to line them up!

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: mangocrazy on January 27, 2020, 11:55:07 AM
Good stuff Peter. Life does unfortunately get in the way of Beta fettling. Glad to hear you're back on the refurb again. Sounds like it's fairly close to completion?


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on January 27, 2020, 12:27:48 PM
Hi Graham

Close!!!!

No chance, still have the full interior to go back in and I have never had the engine running yet.......

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on January 28, 2020, 12:54:30 AM
Here are some photos of the parts removed, cleaned and painted. A few more comments -

As mentioned the rear brake balancer is operated by a lever which you can see at the bottom of the photo with the springs in it. This lever runs through a rubber bush fastened to the bottom of the car. Tnis bush was in perfect condition, just needing a clean from the slight rusting of the bar. The end of the lever which attaches to the anti roll bar has ring into which goes two opposing bushes and has a metal spindle through the bushes. There is an identical ring/bushes/spindle on the part which is fastened to the anti roll bar and the two are connected via two plates with holes in and fastened with bolts. These 4 bushes were totally degraded and pretty much crumbled on removal. They are also found on Fiat 124s and are available from a few sources, I ordered mine from Mark W.

The ends of the anti roll (sway) bar are different on these early Betas in that they attach to the hubs via a ball joint arrangement rather than the bushes found on later cars. The two are not inter changeable either bar or hub. The removal of the ball joint from the anti roll bar was an absolute pig, necessitating the effective destruction of the ball joint. Fortunately I found a couple of NOS ones in Italy at not too silly money, which is a welcome change from a lot of Italian sellers who seem to want a fortune for ‘special’ pieces as I cannot imagine these were used on any other vehicle. The new ball joints can be seen in the photo with the new brake balancer.

As mentioned above I managed to end up with two decent rear callipers. I managed to separate the yoke piece from the main body again with some difficulty. There is a small 4mm pin which in theory you press in, not on these, I ended up drilling them out and have bought some 4mm pins to replace them. After this it was a case of a fair amount of hammer time to separate the yoke from the body as corrosion builds between the cast of the yoke and the alloy of the rest of the calliper. Cleaned up they slide on easily.......

The yoke needs to come off to allow you to remove the main cylinder and hence renew the seals. Also you need to remove the rear screw arrangement which is part of the hand brake assembly. I managed to find a NOS handbrake cable locally which was handy.

The last items I am finishing off are the struts. As per normal on stripping down the metal plates which sit on top of the springs were non existent, just a distant memory with a rust colour on the upper rubber support. The 4 rubber supports wee not in bad condition, though I replaced the worst one with another I had spare. One of the original dampers appeared very stiff so I made up a tool to remove the retaining nut and removed both of the inserts. One appeared ok, the other had very cruddy oil so obviously dirt had been getting in. I bought some time ago a pair of sealed replacement gas inserts, so I am going to paint the strut body inside and out and use them. Handily they come with their own retaining nut which does not require a special tool, just a large spanner.



Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on January 29, 2020, 06:22:48 PM
Another couple of photos. First is of the rubber parts of the struts (+ the yokes from the callipers which I missed off the earlier photos). The rubber parts were cleaned and then finished with Autoglym vinyl/rubber restorer which gives a nice finish to parts. I have used it on various of the rubber and vinyl parts in the car and makes a tired old part look cared for. It was especially effective on the rubber matting in the boot which came with the early Spyders.

The second photo is the parts from Mark which had perished/rusted away. two spring support plates, 4 off bushes for the rear brake balancer mechanism and two rear bearing retaining ring. The spring supports fit superbly onto the spring and rubber, I assume they come via the tool which Matt had made many moons ago? Also the rubber bushes are very well shaped (slightly conical) with a small shoulder and again fit perfectly.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on April 28, 2020, 12:16:46 AM
Hi All

Been a while since I posted and even with lockdown not managing too much time on the car, but doing a bit each week, so will get there eventually.....

Since the last post I have built up and fitted the rear struts. The rear hubs proved to be a learning curve on replacing the bearings. Removing the old bearings was not too difficult, only removing the hub nut as usual was pig. Use of a puller did most of the rest. On removing the bearing it will split into component parts which was not an issue as I was replacing them. The big issue was installing the the new bearing. I initially enlisted my vice to press in the bearing into the hub which was not so easy, but doable in absence of any press. Then came the problem of how to press the hub onto the stub axle. At this point I relented and press go on buying a cheap Chinese 6 ton press from Ebay.....

The side story here is that it arrived pretty promptly and I assembled and tried it out, whereupon the bottle jack failed within 5 seconds.... All very frustrating. After some Googleing, I found that they can get trapped air in the jack and there is a technique to bleed them which involves pumping the jack with the valve open and rotating it as well. Pumping with the valve open, no problem, rotating another story as the bottle jack is held in the 30+ kilo frame by strong springs. This was solved by use of a ratchet strap to allow the jack to be removed, duly pumped and rotated and that solved the problem immediately, a good result.

So back the hub and I soon wished I had bought one of these presses a while ago as it made light work of the hubs and has been put into use for various jobs since. One faux pas was when I reassembled the second hub was to put it onto the stub axle the wrong way round, end result one wrecked bearing prompting buying another....



Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on April 28, 2020, 07:56:30 AM
Hi Peter

You are doing well and I have a long way to go to catch up! I agree on getting a press. Not a lot of money for jobs you have o do on Beta and Montecarlos as service work.

Cheers

Eric


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on April 28, 2020, 08:01:50 AM
Hi Eric

Thanks, it has been a long time, 10 years and counting and still a lot to do. A few jobs I am not looking forward to do yet, including the headliner install.

Another post to update to current state to come later today hopefully....

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: mangocrazy on April 28, 2020, 11:53:34 AM
I must admit that I'd really like to find space for a press in my shed/workshop, unfortunately it would have to contend with the Startrite pillar drill I am restoring, the horizontal bandsaw, the compressor, multiple motorcycle stands, a parts washer, a workbench, some racking and two motorbikes all housed in a 3m x 4m space...

How much was the press you bought, Peter, and what are the approximate dimensions? I suspect that buying from China would be cheaper than buying the steel and welding it up yourself.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on April 28, 2020, 12:19:55 PM

How much was the press you bought, Peter, and what are the approximate dimensions? I suspect that buying from China would be cheaper than buying the steel and welding it up yourself.

I did consider building one, but just buying the steel made it a no brainier. I paid £58 delivered from a supplier in the UK via Ebay, but payment was to a Chinese firm, they obviously have holding stocks here to allow duty paid and quick delivery. Only downside to them is do not expect much support. I complained about the faulty bottle jack and eventually was told to return the unit, which would have made no sense as a replacement bottle jack is only £15, but for me not a problem as the solution was widely shown on YouTube/Google my go to for most domestic repairs such as boilers and washing machines etc.

Dims are 93cm high, 40cm wide and the base feet are 40cm



Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: mangocrazy on April 28, 2020, 12:30:33 PM
Excellent - thanks Peter. That is very cheap. I feel a purchase coming on...


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on April 28, 2020, 12:37:54 PM
The other job I have managed to complete is rebuilding the rear callipers. This was fairly straightforward and included stainless bleed screws as per the front ones. The big issue with them and glossed over in Haynes is reassembly of the hand brake levers. The mechanism as discussed elsewhere is via plunger/screw arrangement with the main lever activating a cam to push the plunger. The plunger has 5 domed washers under it to act as a spring. The problem is these domed washers leave the head of the plunger too high to insert the lever. The solution I found was to ensure the plunger was screwed into the main piston by putting the assembly in the vice and using a 20mm socket to compress the domed washers and allowing a flat bladed screwdriver to screw in the plunger into the piston which needs to be pressed in as much as possible, especially with new pads. Obviously this is simpler without the cast iron yoke being attached to the main calliper body, but I had removed them originally anyway.

So we now have the plunger in as far as it will go, but after releasing the tension on the domed washers the height of the plunger is too high still to allow the main lever to be inserted and the small ‘cam follower’ for want of a better name to be inserted. So this is where the press comes in. I used a small bolt to press on one side of the plunger to allow the follower and the lever to be inserted about halfway onto the plunger. Then to allow the the lever to go all the way I repositioned the bolt onto the domed washers and compressed them enough to allow it to slide. I had used waterproof grease on the lever, follower and plunger beforehand. This allowed the lever to be fully located and the circlip to be added, followed by a good helping of more grease and finally put the rubber hoods on. Final job was installing the yokes which are held in place with a 4mm split pin as I had drilled out the original pin due to being all rusted etc. End result is shown.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on April 28, 2020, 12:41:10 PM
Excellent - thanks Peter. That is very cheap. I feel a purchase coming on...

This was the guy who supplied mine, so price has gone up a little, but still cheapish

The construction is pretty good and well painted.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/383365894137?ul_noapp=true (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/383365894137?ul_noapp=true)

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: mangocrazy on April 28, 2020, 08:01:50 PM
Thanks for the link, Peter. I also have some rear calipers to reassemble, and am not looking forward to it. But at least you've provided me with further justification for a press...  :D


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on April 29, 2020, 10:46:00 PM
Just to finish on the press, one thing which watching one of the recent Binky episodes taught me is the benefit of having good sleeving parts. They bought a commercial kit which I see on Ebay retails for around £60/70, but I resorted to using selected sockets from my set and for the bearings using old inner and outer races which worked a treat putting in the new bearings. I found to get the hub onto the stub axle I used two of the inner races to get the clearance I needed.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on April 29, 2020, 10:48:25 PM
Thanks for the link, Peter. I also have some rear calipers to reassemble, and am not looking forward to it. But at least you've provided me with further justification for a press...  :D

Best of luck, I hope you had better luck than me as I ended up cannibalising 4 to get two acceptable ones, main issue was the piston and rusted in bleed screws.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on May 13, 2020, 10:44:11 AM
Another couple of weeks and a few steps forward and then the odd one back.....

I finally finished assembling the rear hubs and refitting together with the new disks and rebuilt callipers. I have new brake hose and am making new hard brake lines throughout the car. Also fitted the brake balancer assembly and the NOS handbrake cable. I cannot finally tighten the rear suspension until I put the wheels on and lower the car to ride height, but not a big job. Will do that when I have finished the brakes lines.

As a break from the rear I took a look at the window winder mechanism which is very stiff. This may be in part to the felt type strip along the top of the door, but also I felt was the mechanism itself. I tried applying spray grease to what I could get at of the mechanism, but had little effect and also had a bit of the dreaded ‘slipping’ of the gear where the handle is, so as I have a few spare winders, decided to take the plunge and split one to see what was going on inside. I think this was good idea as I found the spindle mechanism coated in very sticky old grease and the long spring was pretty dry. The spindle assembly itself is rather curious in that there is no bearing as such, just a spindle and a tight fitting spring. Splitting the winder was simply a case of using a 7mm dril to drill out the 6 riveted retainers. These are also interesting as the rivets are part of one side of the retaining plates. This itself presents a slight problem when reassembling in that there is very little clearance when fitting the mechanism back into the door for any bolts or nuts. The only way I can see to resolve this is to use some 7mm rivet nuts (rivnuts) which have a small flange which should give adequate clearance and use a 5mm bolt and washers on the side where there is plenty of clearance. I have some on order so hopefully will be a good result. Below is a couple of photos of the component parts of the winder mechanism with the exception of the small rubber stopper at one end and the padding around the spindle where it attaches to the door as I need to replace them.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on May 18, 2020, 09:41:15 AM
Something which had been at the back of my mind was the replacement rubber fuel hoses I installed many moons ago. I decided to take them out from the tank and the engine bay and found the ones I used were unbranded R6 spec ones which maybe at the time were current, but given the scare stories about these I decided to go for branded ones with the current R9 spec. I bought Cohline branded from a UK retailer who specialises in fuel systems, so have to assume they will do the job for the foreseeable future.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: HFStuart on May 18, 2020, 01:24:11 PM
I must admit I hadn't thought about that. I'll check mine when it eventually goes back together.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on May 30, 2020, 06:13:29 PM
A bit of progress, the door window winder mechanisms are all cleaned, greased and back together. The rubbing strip attached to the top of the door skin on the outer side was replaced when the bodywork was done and is very tight for the glass at one end of the door. I used a large screwdriver to open the gap, but erred on the side of caution as I did not want to bend anything. The glass now slides better, though not perfect, but is acceptable. Assembly of the mechanism was fairly simple, I used the press and a suitably sized socket to get the spring back into the housing. The idea of using 7mm rivnuts and bolts was only a half success as it is not possible to get washers on the bolt side of the rivnut due to the contours of the mechanism, so I cut down some approx 6mm headed screws to use as a centre to the rivnut and using the press (amazing how often it comes in useful) I pressed the screw head into the rivnut making it like a normal rivet gun rivet. Not pretty but very effective. I have the drivers side one all back and works very smoothly and without too much effort, so a good result in my book. Always amazing how long these things take, probably been 2/3 days on this job alone.....


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on June 01, 2020, 06:03:25 PM
Hi Peter

I feel your pain with the door glass rubbing strips. Mine rolled in on themselves jamming the electric windows which had been flying up and down for a Beta setup. With them removed full speed windows re-instated. I am now prising the old strips out of the stainless trims to replace with strips supplied from Italy by Cicognani. We will see if this is the solution to the too long saga of fitting up the doors. 

Keep going we will get it done in the end.

Eric


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on June 01, 2020, 10:36:36 PM
Thanks Eric. Yes the door strips are on of those things which are a complete pig to replace. My guy when he did the bodywork ‘replaced’ the outer strip and that is a bit too wide really, but as my windows are manual, not as bad as if they had been electric I think. The drivers side one has ended up being somewhat easier to raise than the passenger one, but that is how they are staying.

I bought a stainless exhaust some time ago, used from a coupe. It was in good condition, the only issue was that the down pipe was welded via a flexi to the centrally mounted box which made it pretty unwieldy and very hard to get the outlet of the middle box over the rear frame. So I decided to sacrifice the flexi and grind out the welds which was pretty successful. I have ordered a stainless flexi and my debate now is the exhaust manifold.

I have a couple of 4-2-1 manifolds, one is almost new and off a Strada 130TC, the other I forget its origins, but I seem to remember it was for a beta. I would like to use the Strada one, but I can think of two issues, first the Strada was 2l and mine is a 1600, so block height might be an issue, secondly, the engine angle of the Strada which I cannot find documented anywhere. So anyone ever tried using one of these or know if the angle is different to the Beta?


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: HFStuart on June 02, 2020, 09:20:22 AM
Failing that Peter my old manifold will be available  - the flange it's been re drilled to suit a 2L but it's designed for a 1600 so should work well on yours.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on June 02, 2020, 06:55:07 PM
Hi Stuart

Thanks for the offer, what is the manifold (4-2-1)?

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: HFStuart on June 02, 2020, 10:26:49 PM
Yes  4-2-1 in stainless. CSC I think. I'll fish it out and get you a photo or two.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on June 02, 2020, 11:21:41 PM
Thanks again Stuart. I aim to take the original manifold off the car tomorrow and offer up the Strada one and see how it fits or not.

Another small job appeared whilst I was working on the window winders. The car currently has the front wheels up on ramps, and on opening the doors they should stay open curtesy of a door spring, sadly neither do, so I removed the spring assembly and it was obvious they were worn and the gap in the U shaped metal part was too wide. This is spring type steel, so to get the gap reduced I placed the U end in the vice to close up the gap and applied some heat to the bend. This worked a treat as the gap stayed reduce. Be careful if you try this as one of them I over did it and the gap was too small, fortunately I have a spare or two. I then cleaned them up with the wire wheel and a quick coat of paint and they are ready to fit and hopefully the doors will now stay fully open when asked to. Picture shows the two springs and one of the mounts in the door.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on June 03, 2020, 08:23:27 AM
Interesting. Normally it is just the plastic section worn or broken that has the doors flying open.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on June 03, 2020, 09:08:22 AM
Hi Eric

It may well be the plastic part is worn, but nothing much can be done to change that. The original metal springs appear to have a plastic type of coating/thick painted surface on them originally which was definitely worn away on the ones I have.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: Nigel on June 04, 2020, 10:21:42 AM
Peter, re. the plastic part that fits in the door, i've seen these with a steel roller perhaps from later cars?

I think that,if a roller could be turned, making a fresh unit may be feasable.

Thoughts from a while back.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on June 04, 2020, 03:06:32 PM
Peter, re. the plastic part that fits in the door, i've seen these with a steel roller perhaps from later cars?

I think that,if a roller could be turned, making a fresh unit may be feasable.

Thoughts from a while back.

Hi Nigel

Would be interesting to see it, though that sounds more expensive than the plastic one, so maybe earlier (would be Series 1 if so as my car is very early S2).

I reassembled and fitted the ones I ‘modified’ above and they work very nicely thank you, so another job ticked off. Long way still to go, but still enjoying it after all this time, even if some jobs present significant frustration.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on June 07, 2020, 11:14:58 AM
As I was working on the doors, I thought I would address the plastic covers for the two large holes in the doors which give access to the winder and opening mechanism. I had kept one set of the originals which were not in the best of states, but used them to make up 2 sets of new ones. I used some heavy gauge black PVC which is used in damp coursing that I happened to have and cut out the shapes. One is pretty symmetrical, the larger is not, but is simply a mirror image for either door. After cutting them out the tricky bit is how they attach at the bottom which is via some tabs which appear to be ‘welded’ on the originals. I used a strip of the PVC for these tabs and slit the covers in the same place as original tab and using glue attached the tabs which should be good enough to keep water away from the doorcards which is the covers main job in life. My gluing skills are not too hot, but it did get the job done  as can be seen in the photo below. The green covers are the originals, the black the new ones (one side).


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on June 07, 2020, 04:08:33 PM
As the covers need to be stuck in place, I am not quite at the point I can install them yet. The last job I need to do is to install the door rearward lights which are located just below the lock. As mine is an early S2 it still has the actual light, not a simple reflector that the later cars do. The circuit is enabled via the door switch. I have not seen many of these lights come up for sale and of the two I had in the car, one was badly stuck together, so took me ages to separate and then clean it. The other was much more accommodating and was simply a case of strip and then clean all the under seal gunk out of it. Photo of the lights are below.

There is one other large hole in the door and that is the hole for the speaker, which I had no intention of using. However the original cover was a simple PVC sheet over the hole which did not seem to be well thought out as it would allow water to collect at the lower edge. As it happened I bought a bunch of spares many years ago now in which came 2 off Wipac speaker pods, new with seals and they with some chopping about fit the holes perfectly and give a decent seal. Not a perfect solution, but good enough and does give me the option of speakers if I so desire. Photo of one of them installed below. I may still have some more cutting to do along the bottom edge as not offered up the door card or lower trim to it yet.

Last job is one I have looked forward to for a very long time. Back in 2010/11 I went through all the seals for the door, bonnet, boot etc and decided what could be reused and what needed replacing. I then visited Woolies and bought what I needed from their range. Not exact matches, but they looked close enough to do the job. I finally managed to start using them today and installed the boot seal which appears to fit perfectly, full result. Must now finish off the trim in the boot now as just need to glue the side covers on.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: Nigel on June 08, 2020, 02:20:27 PM
Peter, re. the plastic part that fits in the door, i've seen these with a steel roller perhaps from later cars?

I think that,if a roller could be turned, making a fresh unit may be feasable.

Thoughts from a while back.

Hi Nigel

Would be interesting to see it, though that sounds more expensive than the plastic one, so maybe earlier (would be Series 1 if so as my car is very early S2).

I reassembled and fitted the ones I ‘modified’ above and they work very nicely thank you, so another job ticked off. Long way still to go, but still enjoying it after all this time, even if some jobs present significant frustration.

Peter

Upon a rummage, I found this. I was mistaken in that the roller is nylon, but the cage is very steel!



Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on June 08, 2020, 04:37:38 PM
Hi Nigel

Definitely not seen one of those and may be cheaper to produce than the ones I have hence for later cars? I assume the was some form of cover plate?

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: Nigel on June 08, 2020, 10:55:07 PM
Hi Nigel

Definitely not seen one of those and may be cheaper to produce than the ones I have hence for later cars? I assume the was some form of cover plate?

Peter

I don't recall about a cover plate but quite possible. This is in a box of bits I brought
back from South Africa in 06. No part number or any other markings.I'm now wondering
whether this was an SA reproduction part.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on July 05, 2020, 11:06:14 PM
Have been doing various jobs on the car, a few still halfway through, like rekeying the locks. Still have the glovebox one to sort out, but my one and only key broke during it, so have ordered a couple from John Richard Security Products, hopefully here this coming week.

One job which I have completed after being at a standstill for a couple of weeks is the front to back brake line. I took the decision to renew all the brake lines and this is the last one I needed. I have a Sykes Pickavant flaring tool which I inherited from my father, so must be well over 30 years old. I have however had issues with the pipe not being held firmly and giving duff flares. It is also a pain to make the flare on the car, so as I only needed one more flare, I bought a cheap EBay tool kit thinking it would do the job (see first photo). If I had read more I would not have wasted my time, this does not work on Copper-Nickel pipe, just Copper which is no use. So I bought the tool in the second photo following glowing reports. This does the job no problem and is real easy to use on the car. Plenty of folk sell them, I bought via Ebay. So in theory I now have all the brakes renewed/refurbished, just need to get the rear wheels on the floor, tighten the rear brake adjuster and try bleeding the brakes. I fully expect some of the flares I have made will need some attention, but that is all part of the game.....



Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on July 05, 2020, 11:26:14 PM
Slight divert to sort the exhaust. I have decided to leave the standard manifold on the engine for now as I did not relish taking it off, and so assembled the down pipe I had bought a long time ago which incorporates twin flexi sections (see photo). I also bought a used stainless exhaust system from a guy who was parting out his Coupe. This was all welded up apart from the back box, and included an intermediate box, a length of stainless tube to a small flexi section which was finally welded to an original steel down pipe. I took the grinder to it and separated the intermediate box from the pipe extension from the flexi/down pipe. The new stainless down pipe with the twin flexis now mates with the extension pipe, which in et urn mates with the intermediate box all via standard/removable bolt on brackets and exhaust paste is already on the shelf. I also received the new two intermediate box hangers from a guy in Italy and the brackets for the rear exhaust are all painted and ready for the exhaust.

I also dug out the heat shield for the top of the down pipe and gave all the parts a clean and treated them to some heat tolerant paint. Not sure how effective it will be, but they certainly look better than the rusty lot of parts I started with (see second photo)!


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on July 05, 2020, 11:39:10 PM
I have also started biting the bullet on a job I have been putting off for a while, that is the headlining. The original headlining was well past its best and the trimmer who recovered the chairs etc, supplied me with the material and also sewed together the pieces for the main section which is above your head and down either side near the rear hood. He also supplied some thin foam which has a material mesh backing to put under the headlining material. I have used this foam across the top of the windscreen, but I though it was too thin for the rest of the places where headlining was required. I therefore bought some thicker foam and so far so good. As expected it is taking a long time to get things all installed. My basic idea is to stick the foam to the metal surfaces and then trim to suit. Then attach the headlining using small cutoffs of U shaped trim along the lengths. Some sections require the edge of the headlining to be glued to the edges of the metal. This is for the rubber seals which are for the targa top and the rear hood as they do not provide a strong ‘clip’ effect unlike the trim around the windscreen, door etc. I will post some photos a little later!


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on July 26, 2020, 05:25:50 PM
Headlining still underway, a bit like painting the Forth road bridge for me as a definite amateur. Not particularly a job I would relish doing again, however it is not coming out too bad in my eyes, others may disagree of course!

In between times have been doing a bunch of small jobs, which mainly include cleaning old grease/crap off parts and putting on some paint where needed to protect from rust. One job I realised I had not even thought of was to clean and check the seat runners. These were pretty caked in grease and fluff, one seat had all 4 rollers, the other only two. There were 7 correct bolts and one self tapper..!  So the hole will will need to be re-tapped. All the fun of the fair. Photo of cleaned up parts ready to go back on. Also dug out all the fixing washers and plates for the seats, these were also pretty grim, so more cleaning and a coat of paint to help protect them. I was considering using stainless bolts to fasten the seats to the floor of the car, but did wonder if the tensile strength of them was significantly different to normal steel bolts, any comments?


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on July 26, 2020, 05:31:13 PM
I also got the Cif out to the seat belt straps which were pretty mucky, they came up a treat, as did the plastic covers for the mounts and the cleaned and painted the brackets for mounting the main inertia reel.

Lastly I removed the latches from the Targa top and gave them a clean and a tidy up lick of paint, just to the main visible surface as doing the rest would be way too difficult. Hoping to be screwing the retaining brackets, sun visors and mirror onto the roof of the car very soon now I have progressed on the headlining.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on July 26, 2020, 05:41:46 PM
Hi Peter

We are doing the same jobs on slightly different schedules! Use Plated bolts for the seat fixings not stainless as this is an area where a failure will hurt!. These will say 8.8 on the head. I have the headling joy to come once I finish the never ending soundproofing!

Eric


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on July 26, 2020, 06:19:46 PM
Hi Eric

Soundproofing and Spider do not seem to go together. I have some to install over what the bodywork guys did, but doubt it will have a lot of effect, out of interest where are you installing it (everywhere?). Also are you sealing the gaps between the cabin and the boot?

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on July 27, 2020, 08:34:33 AM
Hi Peter

Montecarlo experience comes into play because they are famously noisy. On mine I can now hear the stereo nicely on the move despite having a louder than standard engine! Noise is Vibration and the sources are: engine, exhaust, road. So I am using the best stick on resonance absorber Dynamat over the floor arches in the cabin and firewall. I will also add it to the doors in the sunken panel areas and to the roof in central panel spots. The boot floor has Fat Mat fitted which is cheaper but inferior. I also have to add Tiger seal spots on the boot and bonnet frames to skins and will probably add shaped dynamat triangles so they do not ring with a tap. A nice dead thunk is what you want. The Bonnet will have Mark's liner for cosmetic reasons and some sound proofing even though it has an inferior felt backing.

I am not adding lead sheet as suggested by some. Modern Manufacturers are not either!

Old images say the boots had sound proofing on the strut towers arches & inner rear wings with incredibly water holding felt on top in the corners. I will copy the factory with closed cell foam not felt! I will try to keep boot capacity and carpet fitting little changed.   

The Targa will have 4mm foam under a new acoustic cloth liner. I have various Dynamat closed cell foam with barrier skin options for over the dynamat and really wish I had kept the rotting OE Felt and tar stuff for a pattern! I will pattern it with bubble wrap because I have it.

I will put anti resonance on the panel behind the rear seats but it is lower priority.     

If a ring from a tap changes to a dead sound you are winning, but it is the dullest and slowest job ever and suited to child labour if it did not involve sharp knives and scissors!

Eric


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on July 27, 2020, 09:06:35 AM
Wow, that is pretty exhaustive and I will not be going anywhere near that level. Good tip on the ting/thunk, I shall have an experiment. I too have a bonnet blanket from Mark, via Neil to fit.

On the cabin to boot are you sealing up the many open points, if so what with?

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on July 27, 2020, 03:41:50 PM
Hi Peter

No I am not sealing up the panel to the boot. If I have the sound proofing right on the external surfaces it is a waste of effort IMHO.

Eric


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on July 27, 2020, 03:58:11 PM
Hi Eric

Ok, I understand, will get on with the ting testing before I start on the door cards etc!

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on July 27, 2020, 04:28:32 PM
As an aside today and having to stay off my feet today due to a rope burn from a dog lead on my lower leg (who would have dogs...) I decided to have a go at yet another new skill.

On these early Spiders (according to the parts book) there is a small leather strap to keep the hood latches closed. They fit onto the upper hoop of the hood frame either side of the two latches. They were only installed on the first few hundred cars on Series 2. The ones on mine were there, but in need of replacing. Essentially a piece of leather or leatherette with a stitching and a custom buckle one end and a self tapper with cup the other. I do not possess a sewing machine so it was either ask someone to do the stitching or use a sewing tool which I bought a while ago. Always nice to have a go yourself, so that was the plan. I bought a strip of black leather from Ebay and using the old piece I cut two pieces, glued them together and marked out the hole positions and then spent a few hours stitching. The photo shows the result with the old studs attached (not brilliant, but passable) the stud which goes into the frame, the old strap and the sewing needle used. This type of hand sewing needle is good for small repairs to any areas such as seats etc. And you can attach varying sizes of needle. I just have to make a second one now.....


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on July 29, 2020, 04:28:57 PM
Hi Peter

Use Plated bolts for the seat fixings not stainless as this is an area where a failure will hurt!. These will say 8.8 on the head.

Eric
Hi Eric

I am guessing you mean the bolts from the runners to the seats? I will reuse the original bolts for that. I was meaning the bolts to the floor pan, which after recently reading Matt’s how to on refurbishing the runners, I realised they were the Allan headed bolts which are shown below and I have plenty of!

Here is a link to Matt’s how to

https://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=379.0 (https://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=379.0)

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on July 29, 2020, 05:50:06 PM
Hi Peter

I am glad you found the right bolts for the seats. I received the Torneau today. Please can you PM me how much you need for the shipping.

Thank you again

Eric


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on September 02, 2020, 04:59:53 PM
As another aside I took stock of the stainless strips for the edge of the carpet next to the doors and the stainless strips above the sills and at the bottom of the doors. All were in need of a good clean and had a number of scratches. I remembered an old old Wheeler Dealers episode where they were renovating a Frogeye. Mike took the aluminium trim strips to a specialist polisher and the results were amazing. So, decided to look into how to polish stainless and came up with a company who were on Ebay. I gave them a ring and had a sensible conversation ending in buying a kit of three wheels and three polishes. The first is to get the surface scratches out, the next is to start returning to a shine and the final is to give it the normal stainless shine. This arrived promptly and was not expensive at just over £20 delivered. I have started on the carpet strip which was particularly bad with glue, paint and some bitumous adhesive. I first cleaned with Jizer, then rinsed and followed with Cif and finally used a Stanley Blade to remove the stubborn paint overspray. Then set to with the polishing kit. The results are as I had hoped with a nice even shine. Below are a couple of photos, the first is the one of the carpet strips before starting and the other the finished one. Not sure how well they will show the difference in the photos, but in the flesh a great result.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on September 02, 2020, 05:08:21 PM
The company is Metal Finishing Supplies, Cannock. Here is the kit which also includes a mandrel for a drill (not shown). Their card is included in the photo.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on September 02, 2020, 06:34:10 PM
Nice Work

I cheated and took bits to Pete the Polisher on West Wycombe Road. He does a lot of work for TV name restorations is very local and fairly cheap. Bumpers are more of a problem. I had to get my 2 front IE types done elsewhere and did not like the cost frankly. It would have taken a LONG time with a grinder mop and a lot of space.

Eric 


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on September 02, 2020, 11:28:41 PM
Hi Eric

It helps that I am effectively retired so have more time than a lot of folk and have no target date for finishing the car. I am also enjoying finding out about these little skills and having a go at them. Some of the things I have done will be a bit on the bodge it side, but hopefully will be a decent result in the end.

Just in the middle of unscrambling the various odd wires for the dash. On this version you get wiring for things which do not exist/future use which is quite amusing as well as a switch which does nothing and has nothing attached to it.... Keeps you on your toes!

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on September 03, 2020, 04:09:28 PM
I have now completed the headlining and fitted the seals around the windscreen, doors, targa roof and rear hood. The headlining took an age as never tried it before, the result is ok, but would not want to have to do many (any?) more of them. I have left the light aperture for after I have tested the electrics as once fitted I do not want to take it out again.....


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on September 03, 2020, 06:26:29 PM
Hi Peter Impressive work!

I have this to look forward to and I am dreading it frankly. I have the new headlining sections ready to go, but find myself keenly doing everything else first.

Eric
 


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on September 03, 2020, 07:33:39 PM
I can well understand that, I put it off for a while as well. Best of luck and take your time.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 04, 2020, 10:24:48 PM
Work on the car has been patchy this last month due partly to elderly parents needing to spend time with them, however I have been tackling the rats nest called the wiring loom behind the dash and mods for the lights, more of this in a future post when I have finished it.

The main reason for this post is a small thing, namely the door sill cover plastic ends (photo below). I was short of one pair which Eric kindly sent to me with another pair which are going spare should you need any. As with all of these it appears the plastic shrinks over time and hence they no longer fit the end of the covers by quite a bit. A solution I found which appears to work (time will tell) is to dip them into boiling water to make the plastic soft and stretch them over the sill covers and hold until they are cool again.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on October 10, 2020, 11:37:19 PM
Almost finished sorting the wiring, apart from changing all the connectors to try to achieve reliable connections (I have soldered each terminal as well as crimping the), I wanted to modify the wiring, again to improve what came as standard.

First up I noticed in the wiring there was a relay for the dipped beam, but not one for the full beam or side lights, which means reasonable current goes through the column switch and is most likely a cause of failure which I think is not uncommon. So I added two relays to the circuits and mounted them on the strut for the steering wheel. This keeps them out the way, but in the main cabin and near the column switches.

Next I decided to run earth wires from the battery to the rear lights, via the earth point on the steering column support strut, to both the earth points just below the front light assemblies. I am hoping this will again improve reliability.

One item which I have been working on and off of for quite a while are the main lights. A simple enough job you may think, but I did make it harder. I had only one set of original lights from this car and they were not original to the car being a set of Hella ones. These are original for to cars like mk3 Capri and BMW 3 series apparently. They are well made and have a metal cap arrangement at the rear which acts as a water tight cover for the bulb. The problem is that this cap has terminals which stick out and mean the whole light assembly protrudes well beyond the plastic cover on the Carello base plated I have. I could have just bought a new set of lights which have simple rubber caps, but decided to try to use the Hella ones as they are well made and sort of period for the car. Below are photos of the original cap arrangement and a modded version. basically I drilled out the rivets holding the terminals and removed the terminals, wires and outer plastic insulator. Then using the inner plastic insulator and some polyeurathane, sealed the holes at the rear. Then I drilled a hole in the side and installed grommet and two wires. I was bit concerned about heat buildup in the cap when the light is on, so went for Silicon coated wire which has much higher temp tolerance than PVC. The end result is that the plastic caps just fit over this a Hella cap, so pretty happy with the result as shown below. The supplier of the wire did not have grey, so went for blue and marked it with grey tape as grey is the colour for the dipped beam.

I still have to finish the main battery cables and fit the battery tray. The bodywork guys ended up welding it in place, rather than bolting it, so I removed it and found a replacement, but the support brackets are damaged and need some TLC to allow the tray to fit and be bolted down.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on November 01, 2020, 12:16:43 AM
Sorry this is a long missive over a few posts, but I wanted to document what I have done....

The one item on the car that has taken most of my time over the last 10 years has been the wiring. Initially I renewed nearly all of the connectors, both crimping and soldering them just to make sure. This alone took many days, it always amazes me just how many connectors there are and just when you think you have finished you find some you missed the last time round. I even found some recently which is years since I thought I had renewed them all. The only ones not renewed are the special ones which connect the instrument binnacle, so far testing has proven them to be ok, so will be left alone!

I also wanted to replace all the old style bulbs with led versions. I have always been a great fan of leds since I first started using them as a young electronics engineer in the late 70s. In general they just work and keep on working. Some research left me in to thinking that replacing the halogen headlights with led versions is not so simple, so apart from them, all the rest were fairly straight forward swaps with the odd detail change required. So with new connectors and leds I recently started testing the wiring and the following were the comments/issues found -

1) As mentioned previously, I noticed on this pre f/l version, the full current for the side lights and the full beam go through the stalk switch which I understand can lead to it burning out. So two relays were installed on the steering column support, near to the main earth point, see first couple of photos.

2) The main dipped beam has a relay which is situated next to the fuse box, together with two other identical relays, one for the cigarette lighter and one for the horn. Only one proved to work and they are really awkward to access the retaining nuts with the original style relays. I therefore replaced all three with new ones, similar in style to the two mentioned above. All of them are 40A rated, so should be well overspecced for the job. They can be seen in photo 3.

3) There is also a relay situated on the left inner wing for the radiator fan which I replaced with the same as used in 2) above.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on November 01, 2020, 12:27:03 AM
Part 2.....

4) Earth points. I mentioned before that I had added some additional wiring for earthing to supplement the chassis providing a routing for it, for completeness these are the additions

- below the headlights are studs which I think originally had a spider arrangement for spade clips. I decided to use simple ring connectors which go directly over the studs. On the left hand side there were too many to fit on one stud, so I used one of the headlight fixing studs and joined the two with a link wire. An earth wire from each headlamp was then routed back to the main earth stud just below the battery which is then connected directly to the -VE battery terminal. See photo 1.
- The rear lights have a separate earth linking the two clusters and the number plate lights. Within each cluster there is a series of metal strips riveted together to give an earth to each light socket, connection to the outside world is via a spade clip. On one of the clusters there was corrosion between the rivets and hence no connection between the reversing light/side light/braking light and the indicator light earth. Conveniently the light sockets have a spade terminal for both the +VE and the earth, so a simple daisy chain cable to the indicator socket sorted that problem, photo 2. To route this earth from the lights to the front of the car, there is 6 way connector on the light cable, near to the right hand side rear light cluster, with only 5 positions used, photo 3, so I linked the existing earth to this spare slot and ran a wire to the stud above the steering column, and then through the bulkhead and to the stud below the battery.
- There are many earth wires which terminate above the steering column. There are two earth studs and this is sufficient for the ring connectors needing to the secured. See photos 1 & 2 in the above post. The two are linked via a link wire.
- The steering rack should have an earth connected to a tab on the damper, not sure there was one when I removed the rack, but I have installed one and connected it to one of the studs which originally retained the relays next to the fuse box.
- The final extra earthing required was for the under bonnet light. I added an extra wire from the middle solenoid black earth wire near to the fuse box and ran this across the bulkhead to the light, terminating in a spade clip. See next post for the reason this was needed and photo.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on November 01, 2020, 09:42:39 AM
Great work Peter
For earthing the rear Lights I have gone for local self tapping screws and earth wires direct from the individual bulb connections, not trusting the multiple connection and single wire to the front design. At the front I am using the star spade connectors plated and with contact grease. Both will have wires directly back to the main battery earth stud. I have created 2 Self Tapping screw Earth points above the steering column 1 for the OE Loom 1 for the modern additions that do not like common connections with electrically dirty OE wiring.

I have all new wire and have built in waterproof connectors for the Wipers, side lights, radiator fans and indicators as these seem to get the worst of the weather.

For owners of later cars I found Junior Timer connector boots make nice replacements for the boots on the main fuse box electrical connector on each side of the S2 FL fusebox.
Battery terminal contact grease is your friend in stopping all those nice new tabs corroding.

Eric


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on November 01, 2020, 10:25:52 AM
Hi Eric

That is well beyond what I was prepared to do, must have spent many happy hours doing it...!

A couple of questions/points.

1) I read that battery contact grease is not necessarily conductive hence why I have been reticent to use it so far, do you know if this is the case?

2) I plumbed for simple replacement relays without reverse bias diodes. If you have modern electronics would you or have you use the ones with the diodes or just rely on the inbuilt protection of the units?

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on November 01, 2020, 11:57:50 AM
Hi Peter

I have used contact grease on multiple connections on the Montecarlo over many years now and everything electrical has continued to work well. Problems previously were always earthing, corroded connectors, switches carrying full load for want of a relay and some wires not able to carry the amp load. The wire from the alternator to fuse box being a classic.

I have very deliberately kept the ECU wiring clean with fuse boxes built for the purpose fed with distinct Battery fused +Ve Earth and Switched Live. ECU Sensors have a different Earth point to the main ECU Earth. I have not needed Diodes although I did at one point install a diode on the Monte to diagnose an issue which was poor circuit design on my part not allowing a main power relay to unlatch when the ignition was turned off. I have learnt the lesson!

On my first ECU Fuse box I managed to install change over relays in error. To put it mildly the effect was erratic, but thankfully quickly spotted.

With no relay Montecarlo headlight switches burn out and it goes dark when you need it most requiring a change of underwear!

The hardest to work out are the double change over relays for Electric windows on a Monte, but they make a huge difference. Credit to my father on that one he was an R&D engineer for Ford electrical systems. For Beta S2 FL the OE Loom actually has relays for the electric windows.   

I hope that helps

Eric
PS I recommend replacing all the earth wires in the engine bay loom with brand new thin wall cable. You can go up on the Amp capacity with cable that is physically the same size. I have now seen so many engine bay earth wires rotten along their length.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on November 01, 2020, 05:55:45 PM
Hi Eric

On the corroded wires in the engine bay, I have not found any corroded as such, which I associate with corroded wires and broken insulation such as you get when it is very old or subject to heat over time. All the wires appear to have good flexible insulation, the issue I did have was it being difficult to tin the wires due to either a layer of insulation material (presumably PVC) ‘sticking’ to the wires and hence forming a barrier to the copper wires underneath which meant tinning was impossible. Where this happened, then I had to scape the strands to reveal the copper and then I managed to tin the wire and hence crimp/solder the connector. If you were simply to crimp on these wires without scraping then the result would be very poor and probably end up with bad/erratic circuits, which was the main reason for replacing the connectors in the first place as many looked in a poor state.

On the main wire from the alternator to the fusebox, it looks ok for my requirements, but would want to beef it up if I had increased the loading due to new additions.

My view on the existing fusebox/relay arrangement for the pre f/l is that if I retired the car I would consign it all to the bin as way too clunky and the f/l solution looks a much better solution, though would probably shop around to look at modern solutions.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on November 01, 2020, 06:31:01 PM
Next part of the epistle -

4) Led bulbs. A number of issues arose with converting to Leds. In general led bulbs require the +ve and -ve supply to be in a specific way, unlike normal traditional bulbs. I used 6 types of led bulbs on the car as follows, see photo 1

- Bulb 1 - Rear light/braking, ie dual filament large baynet socket type, casing -ve, centre pins +ve
- Bulb 2 - Indicator/side light/reversing light, ie single filament large baynet socket type, casing -ve, centre pin +ve
- Bulb 3 - Number plate/wing indicator/switch illumination, ie single filament small baynet socket type, casing -ve, centre pin +ve
- Bulb 4 - Instrument cluster illumination, ie T10 plug in style bulb
- Bulb 5 - Individual warning light in Instrument cluster, ie T5 plug in style bulb
- Bulb 6 - Internal lights, ie festoon bulb

In general most of the replacements were plug and play so long as you take into account the polarity orientation. There were however the following problems found.

- The original indicator flasher module (not the hazard flasher oddly) relies on a certain current being taken which the leds do not come near, so a more modern module which works with low current bulbs replaced the original.

- The under bonnet light has the centre pin connected to the chassis and the outer casing is connected to the +ve supply, so the led did not work in this configuration. My solution was to run an earth wire from a solenoid earth as mentioned above and to insulate the earth chassis connection using tape and insulating washers. Then using a ring connector connect the original earth point to the +ve and connect the new earth wire to the original spade terminal on the light. See photo 2.

- The original instrument cluster should have a adjustment for the brightness of the cluster and the same button (left hand button on the cluster) also provides a bulb test for the brake fault light by pressing it. Mine had neither, just a simple link wire. I did however have a spare instrument cluster with an original potentiometer which was not in great condition, but did give me the mounting brackets to work with, a good starting point.

My solution was to reinstate a potentiometer suitable for the led lights. The original has a much lower resistance value to suit the original bulbs (approx 10 Ohms), the one I chose has a value of 500 Ohms, it does dim the leds, but not completely, hopefully the range will be sufficient in real world conditions. Photo 3 shows the parts of the new potentiometer using the mounting bracket and spindle from the old potentiometer suitably modified. The potentiometer had a small piece of aluminium tubing glued to it to allow connection of the spindle. I used a washer to act as mount for the potentiometer onto the existing mounting bracket of the old potentiometer. Photo 4 shows the assembly in position with wires attached. Not necessarily pretty, but functional and a nice £2.50 fix...

The press switch  function was not possible to implement as per the original push button as a special potentiometer is used. I therefore decided to make use of the spare switch found on the top right of the switch cluster panel above the heater. This entailed routing one wire from the switch through the bulkhead and connecting into the connector next to the brake master cylinder header tank. This wire is common to the master cylinder low fluid sensors and the brake pad wear sensors, simply earthing it causes the light to come on. The other wire on the switch is an earth which goes to the stud on the bulkhead near the steering column.

I am hoping this is an end for the time being of my wiring saga until I get to test the sensors etc on the engine.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on November 01, 2020, 06:36:22 PM
Hi Peter

I have found the earths wires have degraded/corroded along their length under the insulation. Often this is a core with black corrosion that continues even when dramatically cut back. I avoid soldering unless absolutely necessary due to the risk of wires fracturing. I also avoid pre-insulated terminals because they need better tools and skill to do well and frequently fall off. I use excellent compound crimp tools including the specific ones for Junior Timer, Super Seal and DT pin connectors alongside wire size specific strippers. I even have hex crimps for battery and large earth wires although the punches you hit with a hammer work fairly well IMHO.

I always give a crimped terminal a test tug preferring to know immediately if I failed to crimp it properly!

Back to making custom Screen Wash Jet holders for me.

Cheers

Eric    


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: HFStuart on November 02, 2020, 10:18:36 AM
Impressive stuff Peter. Once a sparky always a sparky I guess!


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on November 02, 2020, 11:46:52 AM
Hi Stuart

Never considered myself a sparky as such, most of my working life was as a computer engineer. I did have a few dabbles back into electronic design over the time, but very much an amateur at it.

As well as documenting what I have done, I also hope it may be of use to others who maybe have less experience, but think it may be a way to go. On the led subject, given how many bulbs there are in the car and the way the wiring is routed, the power saving is significant and will reduce the current needs of the wiring of that circuit and earth, which to my mind is a good thing. I could have gone further in using led headlights and solid state relays, but you have to draw the line somewhere and the extra benefit to my mind was not worth the expense. I am not sure I will be doing that much night driving......




Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: HFStuart on November 02, 2020, 07:14:05 PM
Peter,

I suspect it's going to be of great use to those of use planning to put a Spider back together at some undefined point in the future! It's also quite cathartic to be able to document what you've achieved.

My understanding is that, as you suggested earlier, LEDs are a bit dubious in anything other that projector headlights. Although the beam pattern is awful (single piece lights on mine) I find the lights surprisingly OK when fitted with high quality bulbs. Better than the standard fitting in my GTV or (ex) 406 Coupe in fact.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on November 02, 2020, 09:35:48 PM
Hi Stuart

I watched some interesting videos on LED replacement headlights, where several were compared. One of the crucial issues is the actual position of the light source within the bulb. A number had the position different to the original halogen and hence relative to the reflector which made the beam pattern different and less effective. My big issue with using led headlights is that they appear to require a heat sink which is external to the bulb and hence you have to find somewhere to put them.

As you say, standard lights if supplied with a decent supply should be adequate for most needs.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on November 08, 2020, 05:40:31 PM
Bit of a milestone day, The dash is back in and I have checked as much of its functionality as possible at this stage.

Just another 1000 things to do before finishing....

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on November 08, 2020, 07:09:48 PM
Great to see progress even if it shows how slowly I am going!

Eric


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on November 12, 2020, 06:19:24 PM
Hi Eric

You have a long way to go before you pass my refurb time, 10.5 years and counting.....

Feel as though the end of the road is in sight however.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on November 12, 2020, 06:28:31 PM
After I installed the dash I had been thinking how to repurpose the rechargeable torch connector which will never be used for that and I realised it would be oh so useful to have a USB point for my phone/sat nav etc.

I did not want to use the Cig lighter with a USB adapter as that would look pretty awful, so a bit of EBaying came up with a dual USB output with 12-24V input. Duly ordered and arrived today, so set to fitting it in the glove box. I piggy backed onto the glove box light circuit which is permanently live. I did wonder how much current the USB would take just sitting there, but it was 12mA so not a disaster, I then drilled the holes for the wires and the two mounting screws. On powering up it had two leds lighting the USB unit which was pretty pointless as this would be on all the time, so I removed the rear casing and took out the two resistors which fed the leds. A full result as the idle current is now around 1mA, so insignificant. Result is I am pretty happy with it.

I still have the torch charging point to decide on....

Photo of USB unit installed, it has a dust cover over the two USB ports.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: HFStuart on November 12, 2020, 11:17:19 PM
That's a nice touch.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on November 13, 2020, 12:13:08 AM
Thanks!


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: mtulloch on November 13, 2020, 10:33:01 AM
I've done the same but I powered it from a supply that was only live when the car was on as I wasn't that happy about some random Chinese tat being powered up full time in the event it spontaneously combusts!


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on November 13, 2020, 10:43:42 AM
Hi Matt

Yes, I did consider that fact, but looking at the circuit it is well made, not a bodge job an I do get frustrated if wanting to charge my phone etc in a car having to have the ignition on when parked up.

Time will of course tell.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on November 13, 2020, 07:28:32 PM
Hi Peter

I solved this one with a QC3 (quick charge) twin USB socket replacing the OE cigarette lighter socket entirely in the S2 FL center console. I would never use the Cig lighter and the Lancia ones spit out USB adapters in a comic way. As I discovered using an adapter for my sat nav in Turin traffic in the Monte! Making a Classic car work with modern devices is definitely a fun challenge. My 4x 50 watt amplifier is behind the spare wheel in the boot!

Eric   


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on November 13, 2020, 09:06:12 PM
Hi Eric

I wanted to keep the look of the centre part of dash looking original, but also have no intention of using the cig lighter. I even doctored the plug in of the lighter so it is just a dummy with the original handle.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on November 21, 2020, 06:18:45 PM
I have been working in the engine bay for the last week or so, mainly on the engine itself, but one of the last electrical jobs I did was the wiring to the radiator fan which comes direct from the battery, through a barrel type fuse holder and to the fan, the return is via a relay which is one I replaced mentioned earlier.

The barrel fuse holder is just left hanging on the wiring from what I remember (I do not remember that we’ll, so happy to be corrected) and I do remember a holiday in France back around 1980 where the HPE we had was in a line of traffic, hot day and the fan refused to come on. A quick fiddle under the bonnet revealed corrosion in the fuse holder, a clean up sorted it, but that was on a 2-3 year old car!

So I had a look for a replacement type of fuse holder and came up with the one in the photo below. It has two advantages, it can be mounted via the screw hole and is waterproof. A quick crimp & solder to add the spade clips and it mounts quite conveniently to one of the horn compressor bolts near to the battery.

One question I do not know the answer to is what size fuse should the fan have?

Peter



Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on November 22, 2020, 10:03:48 AM
Hi Peter nice work!

I use similar waterproof blade fuse holders that clip onto the power distribution block or mounting clips and can be clipped in stacks. I think they come from Pole Volt as does the neat AMP power distribution block. For my twin curved vein modern fans they are fused at 20 AMP each running from 30 AMP relays each on wire rated to 25AMPs. I would suggest checking out the motor rating plate and doing the figures to be sure. I found the OE Fan motors on the Monte and VX very inefficient demanding high current for average performance at best. Fan design and the motors that power them are in a different league these days.

I would need an S1 Fuse box schematic to give a better answer on the OE Fuse rating sorry.

Eric     


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on November 22, 2020, 03:54:32 PM
Hi Eric

Haynes helpfully only lists the fuse box fuses for EU cars, but does list inline for USA models, giving the fan 16A which seems reasonable.

I guess the design of the fan is 50 years old at least so will not be as efficient as modern ones?

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on November 22, 2020, 06:34:18 PM
Hi Peter

At Least Lancia were bright enough to ditch engine driven fans. I just can not take chances with engine cooling given I am doubling the power output. That was why a lot of effort went into the radiator spec a few years ago and I am using fans proven on the Montecarlo.

At least your car will be driving in 2021! Mine will still need a lot of work including a custom exhaust and rolling road mapping.

Little victories for me and I will get there.

Eric 


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on November 22, 2020, 11:51:54 PM
Hi Eric

I do hope to be driving it then.....

Yes, I had forgotten just how many cars still had engine driven fans around that time until I watched a video of a TR8 built around 1980 which had one.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on November 30, 2020, 01:03:14 AM
Managed a number of days in the garage and some decent progress made, in no particular order...

1) I wanted to give the steering gaiter and damper a chance of surviving longer, so have wrapped the exhaust manifold and the adjacent part of the down pipe before installing the original baffle which I guess was originally intended to protect these parts. Photos below.

2) I had replaced the timing belt and tensioner way back and the engine had just sat there, so decided to replace the belt again as I have a n other new belt. I managed to get the crank pulley nut off with a rattle gun which made the job easier than my efforts last time. Whilst the belt was off I filled the engine with oil and carefully spun up the aux pulley via an electric drill as mentioned elsewhere in the forum to get oil to parts that have not seen any for a number of years.

3) On replacing the belt I double checked the aux and cam timings and made sure I could turn over by hand, plugs removed to ease the job. I also needed to retime the disti as it had been removed. This was a little tricky given that the disti shaft can be set to any position and you need to make sure that the arm points to one of the covers contacts and that you know which cylinder it should go to. A bit of patience is required, hopefully I have got it correct and the static timing is good enough to start the engine. Tightening the crank pulley nut proved interesting as has quite a high torque. I dropped the cover plate for the flywheel which is under the engine. I then screwed in a bolt into the flywheel and used this to wedge it and stop the crank from moving and hence allowed the nut to be tightened to the required torque.

4) Tidied up the wiring around engine including installing new plug and coil leads. Quite satisfying to not see a tangle of wires. No photos yet as waiting for a couple of covers and yet to install the plugs.

5) Did a compression test. I had put some oil down the bores before spinning the engine on the starter as not having been run for while, I did not want to cause any damage. I then checked each cylinder and the results look ok, with just one cylinder being slightly lower than the others (all around 150psi). My hope with the engine is to run it this coming summer before taking it out and rebuilding it next winter.

6) Filled the gearbox with oil. This as with the engine oil will be to get used to initially then replaced. I aim to go with Eric’s recommendation for the gearbox oil when I do replace it.

7) Finished off the brake pipes and filled with fluid. Did a quick vacuum attachment to the bleed nipples and managed to get fluid through, though not fully bled, still to be finished. So far just one joint needed tightening, but no pressure has been put on the circuits, so no doubt fun and games to come.

8 )Fitted the radiator and the various coolant pipes. I had originally modified the pipe to the heater matrix with a additional bypass as documented elsewhere which is an issue on these early cars as if the heater matrix switch is closed no flow occurs. I also filled with de ionised water and anti freeze. so far just the odd weep which have been resolved by tightening up loose drain plug/jubilee clips.The radiator was good before Hand and so far looks ok, time will tell.



Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on November 30, 2020, 01:11:52 AM
Quite excited and a little apprehensive as tomorrow I am picking up the refurbished wheels....

Fingers crossed here that the result is a positive one!

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: mangocrazy on November 30, 2020, 11:57:20 AM
Looking forward to seeing the wheels - photos will of course be required... :D


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on November 30, 2020, 05:22:08 PM
Here we go, one rim in an AMG metallic grey and new tyre temporarily on rear hub with single bolt. I have yet to sort chroming of wheel bolts, hopefully a guy I am visiting on Wed will be able to help. As it was in artificial light the centre section of the wheel is the true colour, the outer rim is reflecting the light so looks much lighter than it is...

Yes, I am happy with the result, all 5 wheels refurbished, old tyres removed and disposed of and new tyres mounted and balanced, total bill inc VAT £417.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on November 30, 2020, 07:28:49 PM
Beautiful and no doubt soon to have new wheel center badges



Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on November 30, 2020, 08:15:06 PM
Hi Eric

I actually have had some for around 9 years......

Thanks

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: mangocrazy on December 01, 2020, 10:47:08 AM
They look great Peter, and set the white of the body off a treat. I think they'll give the car a really good visual lift.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on December 01, 2020, 02:18:13 PM
Hi Graham

Thanks, yes happy camper. I had consulted better half on it as my taste in these matters leaves a lot to be desired.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on December 03, 2020, 05:57:25 PM
Another milestone day, woo and hoo....

Yesterday I picked up 5 gallons of the Esso 99 unleaded as discussed elsewhere, interestingly it appears to only be available at some Esso stations, not all. Put a couple of gallons in the car, no leaks in the tank which is a relief, though would have been surprised as the tank was in good condition when I took it out and cleaned and painted it and has not had anything in it since.

I then cranked the engine on the starter without plugs in to make it less stressful, result, absolutely no fuel in the inlet filter, I removed the inlet pipe from the carb and retried, still nothing. I checked that if I blew down the inlet pipe back to the tank I could hear bubbling the other end and had checked the return pipe was ok. So I decided to replace the mechanical fuel pump with a new spare I had bought many moons ago. Result was loads of petrol in the filter just before the carb. So new plugs installed and moment of truth, it fired almost immediately and then just ran. It was almost a shock that it actually ran quite well given this was from approx static timing and the carb had been cleaned and had a refurb kit.

After running for a while the auto choke operated the inlet flap on the carb, so another item ticked off and so far no obvious water leaks, though I did not run it long enough for the thermostat to open, though I had tested it before installing, albeit quite a while ago.

Next jobs, sorting out the rear hanger for the back box as the stud on the box is sited too low for the rubber hanger, and get a bush welded into a short section of the exhaust just after the down pipe which is for an AEM air/fuel sensor. I read an account of a guy using one to check the running of his Fulvia and was quite impressed that you could get on the fly readings whilst going along which gives you a good indication of how good your carb setup is. No substitute for a rolling road, but with just carb and no ECU etc, seems like a good start to see just how rich or lean the car is running under load.

Also hoping to visit a company next week who hopefully will sort out rechroming the wheel bolts.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: betabuoy on December 03, 2020, 07:00:19 PM
I've been thoroughly enjoying your recent updates Peter and your tenacity is impressive.  I too share that fascination of the first start of an engine.  Still in my top ten moments is hearing my own engine fire and run relatively smoothly after an earlier engine rebuild of my own!  Really great work.

Chris


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on December 03, 2020, 07:15:24 PM
Great work Peter. Definitely a moment to celebrate. I use AEM sensors in many places to keep the ECU informed, but my wideband lambda sensor that does some auto tuning is actually a Bosch item.

I recommend some excellent wine or some fine beers!

Cheers

Eric 


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: HFStuart on December 03, 2020, 09:19:22 PM
That's a great moment in any build. Congratulations.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on December 03, 2020, 09:36:58 PM
Thanks all, yes, feels like one of THE moments after so long, especially as it the first time I have had it running since buying it in 2010.

Wine will have to wait until tomorrow, try to limit the weekly intake!

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: Nigel on December 03, 2020, 10:03:59 PM
Nice going Peter!

I had a similar thing when starting mine after 14 years inactive!

Regards
Nigel


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on December 09, 2020, 12:54:26 AM
A little bit more progress over the last few days.

After a few comments re alternator on this forum, I decided to bite the bullet and buy a new unit, 55A Borg and Beck unit from partsinmotion.co.uk

See

https://www.partsinmotion.co.uk/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_category_id=108&virtuemart_product_id=1003887&Itemid=128 (https://www.partsinmotion.co.uk/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_category_id=108&virtuemart_product_id=1003887&Itemid=128)

£74 delivered within one working day.

So after fitting it, I fitted the cam belt cover, which is the grey metal version seen on the early cars. Fan belt fitted and all starting to look tidy now.

Final job on the air filter was sticking the seal around the inside lip of the lid.

The door mirrors are bolted to the top of the door skin, rather than the later quarter light version. They are simply held in place we via a plastic gasket with two raw plug like protrusions which fit into two 8mm holes in the door skin. There is then a metal bar which is secured via two self tapping screws which screw into these raw plugs. The mirror base then clips onto this bar and is secured via a single grub screw.

I also removed the short pipe which is part of my exhaust system. It fits just after the flexi I have which is connected to the down pipe. As mentioned before I want to use an AEM sensor and so I drill/ground out a hole in this short pipe to suit the bush.

Today I visited two companies in Bilsthorpe, Notts, one to talk about and instruct them to re-chrome 16 wheel bolts, these will be available in Feb apparently and will cost £5 each, so not cheap, but I know this is not a cheap process. The second company make custom exhausts for bikes, but were convenient to ask the guy who owns it to weld my bush into the pipe. He did it there and then which was a full result. Quite refreshing to meet two guys who were most welcoming and happy to help with small, but needed jobs.

Next job is back to installing the interior, especially now the heater appears to hold coolant without leaks.

Peter



Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on December 12, 2020, 12:24:30 AM
Another day and had a decent amount of time on the car.

Before I start on the interior I wanted to wrap up the engine bay and the exhaust system, so they were the first jobs. Engine bay was a case of refitting the air filter, including the rear facing intake from near the exhaust, fitting the crankcase breather hose to the block and air filter (I wish I had fitted it to the block before I fitted the radiator and front grill.....), refitting the water drain pipes under the valance and adding a piece of rubber tubing to protect part of the speedo. After that I ran the engine and checked the new alternator which I fitted the other day was charging ok. Photo of engine bay below.

Next the exhaust had sealant put on all the joints, the short pipe with the air/fuel mixture sensor bung and the rear box were installed. All the U clips and hangars tightened up for the final time. Also the bracket assembly at the bottom of the down pipe which attaches to the block was installed and tightened up. Hopefully that is almost the last time I will need to crawl under the car, the last things are to tweak the routing of the brake lines to make sure a decent clearance to the exhaust, especially around the rear brake balancer. Phot below of the tail pipe which I am particularly happy with especially as this was a second hand stainless system I bought which I had to hack to make into a more manageable installation. The original maker obviously knew what the were doing when it came to forming the bends, the issue was with the whoever hacked it as apart from the back box, it was all welded as one piece from the down pipe to the middle box.

A quick test of the engine and exhaust and on to the interior. I managed to get the rear parcel shelf installed, it just sits there so no big effort, after that it was checking how the rear seats fit and the rear ‘door’ cards. I am still puzzled if they only have just two push fit clips and one screw and how/where to fit the screw.

I also offered up the actual door cards which looks as though they will be straight forward to fit, though I have some work to add the plastic chrome kick panels and the door lock surround before it can fit them. I am short of one of the door lock surround for now.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on December 12, 2020, 10:43:26 AM
Hi Peter looking really good. I wonder how much further I would be if I was not forced to return the car to the paint shop preventing me from building mine up any further.

You will be driving this car in the spring and after your first trip to have wheel alignment done loving the drive.

Well done!

Eric
PS is you door card lock button trim bright chrome or satin silver? 


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on December 12, 2020, 01:13:36 PM
Hi Eric

Thanks.

The door lock trim is the early bright one and you cannot use the later one as the curve at the top is a full 90 degrees unlike the later one so they are not interchangeable unlike the pull handle trim where I am going to use a pair of the later satin ones as the bright ones I have have missing lugs and are difficult to find.

Plan on the alignment is to get it about right, MOT just to be sure all is in order, then go for the full alignment.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: mangocrazy on December 12, 2020, 05:17:17 PM
Excellent work, Peter and well done for your persistence over weeks, months and years. The time when your rebuilt engine fires up for the first time is always special. I remember when the spare engine I'd taken down to France as a replacement for the broken one first fired up - I was in shock. That was with ignition timing done by guesswork, as well. You certainly seem to have got 'over the hump' as it were, so hopefully everything will fall into place from now on. Look forward to seeing the car in the New Year...  ;D


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on December 13, 2020, 11:40:08 AM
Hi Peter the S1 lock trim sounds like the pattern used on S1 Montecarlos which is also rare as hens teeth because they break so easily. I just might have one.

I will look.

Eric


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on December 13, 2020, 01:20:33 PM
Hi Eric

Looks like I have found one via Facebook, so hold off for now as do not want to waste your time.

Thanks

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on December 13, 2020, 06:45:20 PM
Another day, a few more jobs ticked off.

Rear seats, parcel shelf and rear ‘door’ cards installed. I have yet to have a brave pill and drill the top corner of the rear door cards. According to the parts book there should be a screw to secure it next to the door, but my car does not have a hole and the door cards do not either, so guess there was not one originally. It does look like I need one at present, though I have a little more experimenting to do with clips, though that will have to wait. After screwing the retaining stud of the rear seats which goes into the boot, I could finally put the rubber carpets back in together with some rubber backed ‘underlay’ underneath it to provide some padding. Although this is not resistant to water, it is easily removed and quite durable and is similar to the original ‘sponge’ material used under the main cabin carpet which caused all the hassle originally.

I also installed the front seat belts, not until I had installed the rear door cards, which made the job a whole lot more difficult. The end result I am pleased with, photo below. The seats are the originals, but retrimmed in leather. I was unsure how the rear seat belt nuts which go to the outside world were originally blanked off, so I had some spare seatbelt bolts and cut them down to size to be used as blanking bolts.

The next job is likely to be the carpet after I have fitted the some closed cell foam on the floor, hope to get to it later this week.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonTB on December 13, 2020, 08:54:28 PM
I think you are really going to enjoy summer 2021!  That is one superb looking Spider, soooo close to being on the road.

Another one saved , many would have bottled it but you did the decent thing!

Awesome.   :)


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on December 13, 2020, 10:25:59 PM
Hi

Thanks, always good to have the encouragement. Yes been a long time with many long periods of inactivity, but this year has meant I have been here all year and limited excursions, so lots have been done which has been most rewarding especially as I am mainly retired.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on December 14, 2020, 08:40:29 AM
Hi Peter

Fantastic work with a great interior. For the rear door card top screws you probably want cup washers with dome head stainless screws. Try Westfield Fasteners if you decide to go for it. NB My VX rear trims needed backing panels with more holes as only the front 2 matched the S2 FL door cards.

Eric


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: mangocrazy on December 14, 2020, 05:00:51 PM
Hi Peter,

Those rear seats look lovely. Fabulous job. You're definitely on a roll now...  ;D


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: JohnFol on December 15, 2020, 11:21:55 AM
Hi Peter, hopefully this link to your engine image works . .
(https://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1936.0;attach=3965;image)


Looks like you have the radiator shifted across to the near side, and the air intake facing more towards the off side. Was this part of the original setup or a modification you have made?


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on December 15, 2020, 11:30:08 PM
Hi John

That was one of the pre f/l setups. The air filter on facelift carb cars are different and have a thermostatically controlled inlet from either the exhaust area or the front left of the car. On pre f/l you have to physically rotate the lid of the air filter to decide on intake from exhaust area or from the front right area of the car.....

I suspect the lid on most folks cars never moved!

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on December 18, 2020, 11:44:57 AM
Started assembling the door cards which have been recovered. One part is the ‘chromed’ plastic kick panels which also act as a speaker cover on some cars. I have purchased over the years a few of these, mainly left side ones oddly and have found 3 types. No idea which fits which car, but thought I would share in case anyone has need of any as I have a pair for mine and a few spare, albeit they may have pins missing. The photo shows the three types I have found.

Botttom is the one with pre drilled speaker holes and has 5 pins to secure. The middle is the same as the bottom but no pre drilled holes. This came off my car and was drilled by previous owner.... The top one has only 4 pins, I have 2 unused ones of these with all the pins. I suspect they may be Berlina ones, but not sure. As to identifying which side they go, there is a S and D on the back (left/right).

If anyone can use them please get in touch. If you know which car they originally went on that would be interesting to know.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on December 21, 2020, 10:35:31 AM
Several weeks ago I stripped down the front bumper. Main reasons were that the lights looked in need of attention, one broken lens, mismatched screws and rust on the rear earth connection between the bulbs, and the edges of some of the rubber bumper pieces were sticking out. I managed to remove everything without damage which was a surprise especially the small nuts on the rubber pieces and the two clinch nuts for the lights. I then cleaned up all the non stainless parts and gave them some paint to try to give some measure of protection. The rubber parts were treated with rubber restorer and came up very nicely.

For the lights I had a spare lens which although not perfect was good enough, a very small crack which is hard to see. The bulbs were replaced with LEDs as mentioned before. One had the original colour coded screws which disintegrated on removal, the other a mismatch of self tapping screws. I decided to replace all with stainless self tapping screws which look ok and will last.

I had been waiting for a good weather day to complete the bumper, this was it. One thing I was originally expecting was that where the metal stud is embedded in the rubber it would be badly rusted and hence expanded, hence the sticking out, but all of them were very good with little rust. The issue was actually on the stainless part of the bumper where the studs fit through. The area was slightly raised giving an uneven surface to mount the rubbers. A quick application of the press and the area was flattened and the rubbers fit pretty nicely now.

The stainless part of the bumper had some marks, so having had good success with the polishing kit I bought for the door sill covers etc, I set to on the bumper. The first pass of the procedure resulted in a not very good result with a lot of tiny scratches being obvious when viewed at a certain angle. I then had two more goes at trying to get a better finish and then ran out of enthusiasm and time, the sun was going down and it was getting cold. The end result, which is now staying, is ok, but not as good as I had hoped. I managed to get the whole thing assembled and ready to mount back on the car, I used stainless nuts, bolts and washers where I could to reduce the dreaded rust. One point I had not realised was the main bolts which hold the bumper to the mounts are M10 x 1.25 pitch. The bolts I had were a mishmash so I ordered some new ones up.

Photo shows the bumper, rubbers and lights. Bumper is after the first pass of polishing.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on December 31, 2020, 11:25:03 AM
A slight aside and I may have mentioned this before, but in these days of freezing temps in the garage it is worth mentioning again. A while ago I bought a Clarke Little Devil propane heater and inherited a couple of large propane bottles with the new house which were made redundant after fitting a log burner. Result is a nice a toasty garage after several minutes of use and the propane bottle does appear to last for a goodly amount of time. I did have a roller shutter type garage door fitted which keeps out the drafts as well. The heaters are not so expensive and the propane bottle was around £60 for a refill. I tend to get the garage to a reasonable temp then switch off and switch back on when I feel the temp is getting low again. The garage is a pretty typical double width one. I also have a mixture of cardboard and old carpet on the floor to help with any lying down/kneeling requirements!

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on December 31, 2020, 01:36:34 PM
Hi Peter I support the warm garage/workshop idea! I have gone the electric route to reduce condensation from combustion. Currently I have a de-humidifier running to keep the condensation issue under control. This is the desicant type that still works at low temperatures and even provides some heat.

Eric


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on December 31, 2020, 06:21:47 PM
Hi Eric

Not had a big issue with damp fortunately, but it is a potential issue, dehumidifier would be a useful acquisition.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on December 31, 2020, 06:31:30 PM
A little bit more done today, mainly working on fitting the carpet, more on that later.

I then moved into the utility where the temp is house level...

The window winder handles have always been a bug bear on these early cars as the ones I have were scratched and the knob on all I have seen wobble way too much. Many also suffer from the knob being made of too soft and thin plastic and break away, I guess mainly due to the winder mechanism becoming very stiff with age. I had a play with a scrap handle and found you can remove the cover piece of the knob using a thin blade after you soften the plastic in hot water. This is a little delicate, but can be done without damaging the plastic or the cover piece.

I then rubbed down the metal part and repainted using model paint, satin brown and satin black mixed to give a similar colour to the original. The next part is to reduce the wobble of the know by hitting the rivet which holds it. I made a suitable stake to suit the splayed end of the rivet and this worked nicely to allow the knob to turn, but not wobble much. Time will tell how long it lasts, but I am hopeful after refurbish the winder mechanism. The later handles are so much better, but I wanted to keep the original ones if possible.



Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on January 01, 2021, 02:13:57 PM
A hour or so spent in the garage before dog walking.

One problem I had was one of the nuts for each of the seat mounts. On each side two are captive nuts set into the cross member and one is set into the centre section where the handbrake etc is. These were all in good order. The last is on an upstanding bracket and I assume had some sort of captive nut (welded?) to the bracket. Neither of mine had this nut fixed when I removed it and you need to have it captive as the carpet gets in the way. So a quick bit of fettling with flat file, tidied with a bit of paint and purchase of a couple of stainless cage nuts gives a nice secure fixing which should last. The bracket itself is made of pretty thin metal, not the best design, but the other three fixings are very secure so should do the job.

After fitting the cage nuts the carpet could finally be fitted and tucked into the stainless trim which runs along the door seal. The end result I am fairly happy with given the carpet is a new one stuck over the original. Not ideal, but will do for now as the original was faded and not that presentable.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on January 01, 2021, 05:48:41 PM
Hi Peter This will probably be annoying sorry! There is a large square block with an 8 mm thread that goes in the space with the tab then tapped in place to hold it. I think that is how Lancia spread the load. What you have done will work fine I just thought others might be looking at this in the future.

Happy New Year

Eric (smartass) 


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on January 02, 2021, 12:54:41 AM
Hi Eric

That is no problem, always happy to learn. Definitely do not remember it and given the state of the holes in the bracket suspect that they had been replaced at some point and I do not recall finding any such blocks.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on January 07, 2021, 11:41:17 PM
Bit cold in the garage today... and no point turning the heater on as ordered a Powerspark electronic ignition and wanted to fit it and try it out. Unlike facelift cars the early ones had good old points and condenser/capacitor which for the purist I am sure would say should stay. For myself I always wanted to move to electronic ignition and ones like the Powerspark kits now just retrofit points effectively, so keep the external look and are simple to fit.

I have the Bosch non vacuum disti and the kit p/n is K6.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: HFStuart on January 11, 2021, 06:42:01 PM
There is a large square block with an 8 mm thread that goes in the space with the tab then tapped in place to hold it. I think that is how Lancia spread the load. What you have done will work fine I just thought others might be looking at this in the future.


Eric,

Interestingly not on my Spider. The rear mounts on that have the same smaller metal clip-in nuts seen elsewhere on the car. The ones I have from an HPE are the same as you describe. Possibly a series 1  / pre facelift thing?

Stuart (Spider anorak....)


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on January 11, 2021, 07:08:15 PM
Hi Stuart

You are probably right on the change between Series. I can almost feel Alan reaching for the parts books to confirm this.

Stay safe and hope for being allowed out in the Spring.

Eric


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on January 11, 2021, 08:17:59 PM
The parts book simply says ‘nut’ and the drawing does not show anything specific. Looking at the holes which were not simply round, but deformed which makes me think that some sort of captive nut was used rather than a cage type of nut.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on January 11, 2021, 08:25:31 PM
Yesterday during the cold, I fitted the runners back on to the seats which are all ready now to go in once the final bits of the interior have been fitted.

At last the temperature outside has improved sufficiently to allow for a bit of outside fettling. I had fitted the centre console a few days ago, but the last part of it are two side strips which comprise of a strip of stainless with a strip of tailored carpet attached to it. This is fixed using self tappers to the console. The fettling outside was to polish these stainless strips, after that, fit the carpet strip and screw it to the console. After that the centre seat belt clamps were installed.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: HFStuart on January 11, 2021, 10:26:36 PM
New carpet or old carpet cleaned up well?


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on January 11, 2021, 10:55:14 PM
New carpet or old carpet cleaned up well?

It is actually new ‘carpet’ stuck onto the original which was too far gone to re-dye etc. This was the idea of my trimmer who also trimmed the whole of the centre console, seats, door cards etc. The new carpet is more of a hard wearing thick fabric rather than a carpet.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: frankxhv773t on January 12, 2021, 10:33:00 AM
I love the old style buckleless seatbelts.

If it's any help identifying your door card kick plates this is the one on an S reg Spider.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on January 12, 2021, 03:24:06 PM
Hi Frank

That is the one that I have good ones of and more importantly both left and right hand ones. They are now on the door cards!

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: HFStuart on January 12, 2021, 05:10:23 PM
Again they've not been fitted to either of my pre-F/L spiders.

Good luck being a concours judge for Betas!


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on January 12, 2021, 05:38:11 PM
Hi Stuart

If you look at the back of the door cards there may be 5 holes which the kick plate pins fasten through?

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on January 14, 2021, 12:11:19 AM
A bit of two steps back, three forward these last few days. I had installed the rear seats, rear door cards and seat belt retainers a few weeks ago and then realised that I had to remove them to fit the carpet retainers along the doors. I also realised the fixing bracket at the base of one of the door cards was I securely fastened onto the door card itself, so a couple of new rivets being the answer. I think the trimmer must have removed it and tried to fix it with a couple of plastic plugs which simply pulled out. I also realised I had installed these door cards incorrectly relative to the rear parcel shelf. The parcel shelf fits over the door cards and I had originally put the door cards over the shelf. Either way will fit, but the correct way hides a small section of the wheel well unlike the incorrect way. So all back together now, happy with that, but still have to take the brave pill and drill the fixing hole in the door cards.

Next up was the small trim panels and storage bins which fit in the foot well just in front of the doors. These are held in with self tapping screws of varying lengths and because of previous bodges, some varying hole sizes. There were multiple holes in some places to choose from as well, add to the really awkward place to get to for two of the screws, it took a while to fit, but the end result is not bad at all.

Next job is fitting the actual door cards.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on January 14, 2021, 10:16:29 AM
I am jealous of your progress well done!

Mine is back at the Paint shop having some faults fixed and the tricky custom rear bumper made.

I will have some great parts for sale when all this is done!

Cheers

Eric


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on January 14, 2021, 11:37:12 AM
Hi Eric

Yep, lockdown does give me extra time to tinker and now it is snowing, so another day inside...

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on January 14, 2021, 07:30:40 PM
Ok, I lied, after doing my domestic chores I had enough time to fit the seats, the door cards hopefully will come over the next few days!

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on January 15, 2021, 09:46:27 AM
Looking Good! You will be driving in the Spring.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on January 16, 2021, 10:02:57 PM
Eric, let’s hope so!

Another day and I have got back to the door cards.

The pre f/l door cards (unlike the facelift ones?) are made of a fibre type of board which is moulded into shape. With age and water ingress on the back you often get areas where the fibre board is starting to or has disintegrated. Mine was not too bad, but where the board had gone soft I used some netting we had bought years ago for protecting plants from frost and applying a watered down PVA solution. This is a bit like fibreglassing without the mess and the result is pretty solid. The trimmer recovered them when he did the seats, so they match the rest of the interior. A couple of weeks or so ago I fitted the plastic/chrome kick plates, clips and the door lock surround. Today I had a go at fitting the drivers side one. It took a bit of time, but all went well, thankfully.

One thing I had decided to use on the base of the card is the stainless strip which holds it in place as well as the clips. The strip I used I think is from the later cars and curves up either side of the card, unlike the original which is just a simple strip which does not offer any protection to the lower edges. They fit, just need a bit of persuading. I managed to fit the door pull surround without breaking it, however the original ‘shiny’ original ones had missing lugs, so I used one from the later cars which is more of a satin finish, still looks the part, so happy with it. After that the window winder handle fitted.

The main L shaped door pull handle has three fixings, the lower two still had the captive nuts in the doors and take a self tapper type of screw. The upper one however, the captive nut was missing on both sides so I bought some cage nuts and Allan headed bolts to suit which fit well and give a solid fixing.

The final part fitted was the door lock knob. I am not sure, but I think the original may have been brown to match the interior, however I cannot find any other than the two black ones which I am fitting. As usual no idea when the others I know I had have gone.... The black ones however look fine, so all in all happy with the end result. I hope the passenger side goes in as well.

All that is left is the screw next to the door lock, I am leaving it and aim to do all 4 in both front and rear door cards at the same time, hoping I do not screw them up!

One issue which I have also known about is that the door seal is too big for to allow the door to shut correctly. Again another job I have been putting off as not 100% sure how to resolve it, but somewhere some of the rubber needs to go. I do however want to do it in a least obvious way given you look at it each time you get into the car.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on January 17, 2021, 04:13:10 PM
Peter

I'm pretty sure that the locking buttons on my pre-facelift car were black, not brown.

Keep up the great work. Hoping to see your car soon and glad it didn't end up as one of those never-never projects....

Neil


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: GerardJPC on January 17, 2021, 04:48:56 PM
Looks great.  Does anyone know where I could get some door cards, perhaps made to spec?


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on January 17, 2021, 05:02:38 PM
Looks great.  Does anyone know where I could get some door cards, perhaps made to spec?

Gerard

I have some pre-facelift door cards. Bought for YAJ believe it or not! They would need some repairs but would be useable I think.

Neil


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on January 17, 2021, 06:32:14 PM
Hi Neil

Now they are rare things!

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on January 17, 2021, 06:43:11 PM
Another day and working through the jobs to do list.

Passenger side door card fitted, always amazing how much quicker doing something the second time is.

Finally fitted the front bumper. It has been sat waiting for some bolts which I ordered before Xmas and never arrived. I chased them up and guy sent out another set, so able to fit it. The lights were all tested whilst off the bumper, so glad to see they still work now they are fully fitted!

Last job of the day was to clean and final fit of the steering wheel. Looking at it I was in two minds about giving it a good clean, but having seen the muck which came off it, I am glad I did. After the clean treated it to a squirt of restorer and it now looks the part, even the horn still works, so good end to the days work.

Next job finish bleeding the brakes, not looking forward to it as suspect a few dodgy joints from my original flaring tool, but we will see.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: squiglyzigly on January 17, 2021, 07:48:05 PM
Your patience to detail is outstanding. I like a tidy job but this is beyond me.

Keep up the lovely detail.

Ian


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on January 17, 2021, 09:20:42 PM
Peter

I'm pretty sure that the locking buttons on my pre-facelift car were black, not brown.

Keep up the great work. Hoping to see your car soon and glad it didn't end up as one of those never-never projects....

Neil

Hi Neil

Thanks not too precious about it just curious, I just wish I could find the other ones I know I had.

I think it is important with these projects to have a realistic expectation and to have small targets to shoot for each day/period. I also enjoy these posts as gives you a sense of achieving something albeit a small thing.

One thing I learnt and have is patience with things, not so much with people. This has helped in my working life as a computer engineer mainly working on fix it side rather than on new kit.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on January 18, 2021, 12:34:11 AM
Your patience to detail is outstanding. I like a tidy job but this is beyond me.

Keep up the lovely detail.

Ian


Hi Ian

I think you underestimate yourself given the recent job on the steering column.

The journey has been an interesting one. At the start I was going for a quick tidy up the car to get an MOT, but when I started to do a few jobs, I found it almost therapeutic to have a go at restoring the best I could. I was inspired by a few folk, mainly on the LMC site where there are some outstanding restorations from folk who are not mechanics/restorers by trade, but try to achieve the best they can. I have learnt quite a lot in doing the various jobs on the car.

I was at one time a member of the Stratos Enthusiasts Club and always remember one guy who had built a replica over a couple of years and then put it up for sale, stating that it was the building of the car that he was really interested in, not the owning or driving. I can now understand how he could think that, though that is not my view, I do want to own and drive it.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: GerardJPC on January 19, 2021, 08:43:51 AM
Neil, many thanks for your reply re door cars.  My reference to door cards was vague and inaccurate, sorry.  I need not the cards themselves but the inserts to match the seats.  The yellow seat fabric in my car has split and sun-perished.  I have found a temporary solution by buying some good quality bespoke vinyl covers that fit well over the seats (a woman in Turin makes them to order).  I need to get some matching vinyl to cut for the door inserts.  A trip to a haberdashery may be in order once the lockdown ends (circa 2097).


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on January 19, 2021, 09:28:33 AM
Neil, many thanks for your reply re door cars.  My reference to door cards was vague and inaccurate, sorry.  I need not the cards themselves but the inserts to match the seats.  The yellow seat fabric in my car has split and sun-perished.  I have found a temporary solution by buying some good quality bespoke vinyl covers that fit well over the seats (a woman in Turin makes them to order).  I need to get some matching vinyl to cut for the door inserts.  A trip to a haberdashery may be in order once the lockdown ends (circa 2097).

I thought the door cars all had the same brown vinyl inserts such as mine and Peter's above. If yours have fabric inserts that might be a retro fit?

(We are hijacking Peters thread, sorry, Peter, move this if you want?)


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: GerardJPC on January 19, 2021, 09:30:55 AM
That might perhaps be a cost saving measure in 1300s, Neil.  I will dig out my brochures but think that door inserts to match the seats were possibly a thing in 1600s.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: GerardJPC on January 19, 2021, 09:32:25 AM
Early Spiders/Spyders all had the caramel vinyl seats IIRC - presumably to resist damage if caught topless in a shower (er...).   My late Spider had black vinyl seats.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on January 19, 2021, 09:34:09 AM
That might perhaps be a cost saving measure in 1300s, Neil.  I will dig out my brochures but think that door inserts to match the seats were possibly a thing in 1600s.

Maybe, but I bought the cards separately, so unlikely to have come off a 1300.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on January 19, 2021, 10:27:05 AM
Hi

I think Gerard is correct, vaguely Remember it on the early HPE I had, I will check the parts book later as they will be listed there.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: frankxhv773t on January 19, 2021, 09:09:59 PM
My 1978 1600 coupe had seat fabric on the door cards as did an S Reg 1300 coupe I broke for spares. My 1977 1600 Spider has vinyl on the door cards to match the seats. The implication is that all the trim should match. I hope that may help.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on January 21, 2021, 11:56:06 PM
A bit of a frustrating day today. Started to bleed the brakes and found that I could not get any fluid through to front brakes which are on a separate circuit to the back ones. The other circuit had fluid in from me adding fluid to the master cylinder a few weeks ago. After disconnecting pipes, turns out the master cycling I had refurbished several years ago was not in a great state and the front plunger was stuck. So decided to buy a new one as could not face rebuilding it again and having a problem after that. I am hoping the servo is ok as now way I can test at present.

I also have had difficulty getting the engine to idle once the auto choke comes off, anything below about 2000 rpm and it stalls pretty quickly. I am assuming it relates to the idle screw setting/dirt etc. I had cleaned the carb and fitted a refurb kit, again a few years ago. I removed the carb and tried to check the float level, but there does not seem to be a measurement for it so have to assume it is not too critical. I also cleaned out the idle jet, but so far nothing has made a difference. I am aiming to install the AEM sensor in the exhaust tomorrow to see what the fuel/air ratio is and see if that gives me a clue.

One thing which did go ok today was checking the timing. My old timing lamp dates from the Ancient past and does not give a good solid position, more a blur, so I bought a Powerspark TL100, basic timing light. This produces a precise flash which shows the timing superbly and I was able to get it setup the best I can given the poor idle.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on January 22, 2021, 09:25:08 AM
Peter

My first 1300 would not idle well until fully warmed up. If I hit traffic I'd use the hand throttle to stop it stalling. Once warm it was OK and if you messed with it you ended up with a very high warm idle (1800 rpm).

My current car idles OK when cold, but does idle on the high side when warm.

I do wonder if there simply isn't enough adjustment in the carbs to cover the full temperature range. I had several cars in the 80's where you were messing with the choke until warm and some drivers removed automatic chokes so that they could do this. We are spoilt by modern fuel injection!


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on January 22, 2021, 10:41:04 AM
Hi Peter

A Gunsons Colour Tune is your friend for fixing the idle mixture. Old school tech that works remarkably well because you can literally see what is going on. For twin carb set ups 2 of them help to see issues in balance and by cylinder.

Not for FI though where a lambda sensor in each exhaust primary is better. I have these ports in my Montecarlo exhaust.
 
FYI On turbo setups K type heat sensors in each primary get used.

Eric


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on January 22, 2021, 02:07:51 PM
Hi Eric

As it happens I have a colour tune, last used many many moons ago and did not realise I would be in need of it. It will be interesting to see what that and the exhaust sensor give.

I do suspect the carb may need a good soaking or Ultrasound cleaning however.

Thanks

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on February 03, 2021, 09:49:13 AM
Not a lot to report recently as a refurb of the Utility room which was always planned for the end of Jan has taken priority, hopefully near the end of fitting the units and sink now.

I have received the new master cylinder and yesterday picked up the re-chromed wheel bolts which although a bit expensive £5 + vat each, the result is very pleasing and allows me to reuse the originals rather than buying new ones.

Peter  


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on February 03, 2021, 01:11:36 PM
Satisfyingly Shinny!


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on February 03, 2021, 01:36:55 PM
Hi Eric

Yes, and hopefully fairly tolerant to the wheel brace....

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: capriblu on February 04, 2021, 10:03:10 AM
Were they post plating de-embrittled?

Always scares me when I see wheel studs going anywhere near pickling or electroplating processes!


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on February 04, 2021, 01:06:33 PM
Were they post plating de-embrittled?

Always scares me when I see wheel studs going anywhere near pickling or electroplating processes!

Hi

I have no idea what that means, please enlighten me and I will ask the question...!

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on February 04, 2021, 02:06:56 PM
Hi

Hmm, well the answer is no, and having read up about it, not sure where to go with them now as de embrittling appears to not be a 100% effective anyway. Wish I was aware of this issue before sending them off....

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: capriblu on February 04, 2021, 04:24:05 PM
Peter - didn't want to scare and I'm sure they will be absolutely fine, but I would just be aware.

Regarding the de-embrittling process then yes technically not 100% effective and ideally should be done straight after process but I'm sure if still relatively fresh (a couple of days) then an hour in your kitchen oven at max temperature (200+) would be 80% effective  - perhaps just try one to check for no discoloration/tarnishing but should be fine if clean and not too hot.

Whilst the advent of the web provides ample research material for the emergence of an army of armchair expert doomsters on all these things then on this subject I do, unfortunately have professional experience and involvement (albeit 25 years ago) of a similar issue affecting failure of wheel studs en-masse on assembly and within first 10 miles of road use on a well known premium brand UK manufactured vehicle.  


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on February 04, 2021, 05:45:21 PM
Hi

Thanks, I will give it a go and I will keep my figures crossed. I was aiming to add some locking wheel nuts at some point, so hopefully that will go some way to helping out should any fail on me.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on February 04, 2021, 07:27:48 PM
Hi Peter

This is why the 12.9 grade bolts on TC engines (cam and flywheel bolts for example) must only be chemically blacked not Gold Passivated/ Yellow Zinc plated. Paul Courtney of the Monte Consortium was shocked to watch GC throw away his freshly plated high tensile bolts.

Most wheel bolts/studs are typically 10.9 grade, so stronger than the common 8.8 grade but not as brittle as higher tensile 12.9 bolts i.e. less likely to fail dramatically.

BTW there are some shocking Chinese chrome wheel bolts out there that carry no rating and barely make the 4.4 standard AKA as chocolate bolts.

You are not racing and the car is light with light wheels, with the oven treatment I think you will be fine.

Eric   


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: mangocrazy on February 05, 2021, 02:41:45 PM
I had a similar experience when visiting Guy. He took one look at the 12.9 cam wheel bolts that I'd had electroless nickel plated and threw them in the bin.  He allowed me to keep the 8.8 bolts. Can't remember if there were any 10.9 bolts in the box. But if the bolts had originally been chrome plated and you were merely renewing the plating, wouldn't that indicate that all was OK?


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on February 05, 2021, 07:12:15 PM
Hi Graham

I understand from reading that the problem is due to the process, so a second time round would still introduce the hydrogen into the bolts which is the problem.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on February 06, 2021, 11:45:19 PM
Bolts all had over an hour at 200 degrees. Not sure if it will make any difference as the plating was a few days ago now and the bits I have read say needs to be done ASAP after plating. I will carry a few spares in the car and have some locking bolts fitted as well, so any failures will not be the end of the world.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: squiglyzigly on February 07, 2021, 10:09:33 AM
I wonder what effect years of heating the wheel bolts from brake heat transfer has?
Just a thought I woke up with this morning? (Is isolation getting to me?)

Ian


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on February 07, 2021, 11:04:14 AM
Ian Worry when you reach the Jack Nicholson in the Shinning stage!


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: squiglyzigly on February 07, 2021, 10:36:12 PM
Ian Worry when you reach the Jack Nicholson in the Shinning stage!

 :D


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: GerardJPC on February 18, 2021, 01:46:46 PM
That might perhaps be a cost saving measure in 1300s, Neil.  I will dig out my brochures but think that door inserts to match the seats were possibly a thing in 1600s.

Coming back on this, I have checked the brochure and some books and the fabric inserts on the doors of Beta Coupes did indeed match the colour of the seat fabric.   


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 08, 2021, 06:03:02 PM
Not a lot of progress due to elderly parents needing support and due to positive test having to isolate etc. (I was part of family group, did not have test, but assume all 4 of us, sister mother and father, were exposed and hence had it). As it happened mother and father had jabs a few weeks before and both myself and sister had no symptoms. She suspects she had it back in March 20 before last lockdown and me, well maybe I had been exposed before, who knows. Mother and father had mild symptoms thankfully. All back to normal now, my jab is this coming weekend.

Ok, enough of that. I have now managed to fit the new brake master cylinder, not fully bled the system yet, but there is fluid in all the system and a bonus is that the servo appears to work which was in unknown.

Also after a false start with bug in latest version of IOS, I have run up the AEM X-WI-FI and had a look at the mixture levels with the car idling and as expected it ran rich when first fired up at between 10 and 11, then when the choke comes off it ran very lean on small throttle opening, too lean to keep going, but in excess of 15, keeping the revs up resulted in around 12-13 which is what I was expecting to see. So the carb is coming off and the idle jet etc is being cleaned again....

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 11, 2021, 06:52:09 PM
Another couple of days managed in the garage, great now the temperature is a much more enjoyable 8-10 degrees.

Ticked off a few jobs which have been kicking around. Yesterday managed to do a start on bleeding the brakes which went well. A few weeping joints which responded well to a bit of tightening up (they are all new so hard to know when too tight on first tightening). Ended up with all the circuits bled and a sort of ok brake pressure, all the callipers appear to be working. Still need to do some more bleeding which is not a surprise given starting from scratch. The pressure bleed unit I bought is proving much better than the vacuum system. The trick is to not put brake fluid in the bottle and keep the pressure below 20psi.

I removed the carburettor and stripped it ready for its ultrasonic clean, I decided to bite the bullet and buy a 10l one as the carb was proving hard to get crud off of. Interestingly I found that the fuel stop solenoid had been disconnected whilst running the engine recently and on inspection found the spring inside all gummed up, hence ineffective.

I also cleaned the under the car part of the handbrake mechanism and adjusted the new handbrake cable. On applying it I was pleasantly surprised to find the rear brakes come on and on release they come off. I had been unsure of the handbrake mechanism in the rear brakes since rebuilding, but all was as expected, a full result.

I have a decent pair of the rubber boots which surround the steering rack as it pokes out of the engine bay, but they were pretty dirty, so out with scrubbing brush, CIF and scraper. The end result is below after a quick squirt of rubber restorer. Happy with that.

Also tidied up the last bits of the wiring in the engine. Mainly the new wiring from the electronic ignition and the fan motor wiring to the new fuse.

Last job was to cut two pieces of wood which I intend to use to setup the tracking using the parallel string method. More on how successful that is in the days to come!

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 12, 2021, 11:54:23 PM
Not such a successful day today, spent 3 hours fastening the 4 outer bolts of the front anti roll (sway) bar. Got there in the end after much playing with jacks and bits of wood to ease it into place.

Ultrasonic cleaner has arrived and liquid for it arrives Monday, so hopefully will have clean carb Wednesday if all goes well.

Tomorrow, another go at bleeding brakes, then wheels on and finish tightening the suspension and start on setting up the tracking.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on March 13, 2021, 03:23:45 PM
Hi Peter

You have my sympathy on the anti roll bar bolts. I remember leaning on a pry bar whilst I did them up. On the suspension do it up with load on i.e. put the car on ramps. This avoids creating bush pre-load in the wrong place in the travel.

Eric


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 13, 2021, 04:15:50 PM
Hi Eric

Thanks for the tip, I was simply going to tighten the rears standing level.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 13, 2021, 06:47:35 PM
Well not quite the planned day I had envisaged. I had a thought about the steering wheel position and on trying it, it was miles out when in the centre of the rack position. The steering wheel on the column is keyed, so you cannot just move it round from what I can see, so I had to unbolt the column and the lower joint from the rack and reposition it. One I wish I had thought of when I was reassembling it originally. Then on to the tie rod adjusters. I remembered one of them was difficult to screw, and it certainly was, so I decided to rescue one from a spare rack which had been living outside for a while. Took quite a while to get the adjuster off, but it was in good condition and it screwed on much better meaning I can adjust the toe in much easier. Then it was a matter of screwing both adjusters fully on to the tie rod end and the rack and tightening up the ball joints. Simple, but after I had just done this I remembered the rubber boots from the other day and you need the ball joints off to get them on......

The ball joints thankfully came off easily, rubber boots loosely pushed on and ball joints retightened. Last job was 4 wheels on and remove the axle stands the car has been on for the last couple of years.

That means the actual alignment, suspension tightening and brake bleeding will be another day.....

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 17, 2021, 07:14:31 PM
I have spent a couple of part days on the alignment for all 4 wheels. I am using a method which I will call the string method. You can find numerous videos on it on the Internet.

This basically involves two poles (I used lengths of wood) cut approx 12 inches wider than the car and each one has two slots cut into them using a saw. The distance between the slots is approx 10 inches wider than the distance between the outer rims of the front wheels. One pole is mounted so it is level with the centre of the wheel and placed just in front of the car, the other is the same height and placed just behind the car. I used axle stands and fastened the poles to them. Then take some string and connect the front and back poles using the slots as fixing points.

You then need to measure the distance of the string from the centre of each wheel and adjust the poles until the distance is equal for the front wheels and the back wheels. Note the back wheels are slightly closer together so you will find the gap is slightly wider for them than the front wheels. Once you have equal gaps side to side this means the string is parallel to the car and you can then take measurements of the front and rear of each rim, obviously centre the front wheels before doing this. Haynes gives you the differences, but in general a 3mm difference front to rear on each wheel is what I set it to. Also remember the back wheels point inwards and the front wheels point outwards (toe in and toe out).

Adjusting on the front is via the small tube at the end of the track rod ball joints and for the rear it is the rear lower suspension bar which connects the hub to the centre of the car.

On mine I had to remove one of the rear rods as it would not adjust sufficiently due to a build up of crap in it. A fairly simple job for me as I have had the hub removed recently so the nuts etc are easy to undo.

Now on with rebuilding the carb after having the main body in the cleaner. We will see if that has made any difference hopefully tomorrow.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: frankxhv773t on March 17, 2021, 08:38:03 PM
When I had a few pennies to spend on some retail therapy a while ago I invested in a Tracace laser alignment tool. I'll admit it's £75 more expensive than some sticks and string but handy to have if you periodically need to do tracking.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 17, 2021, 09:39:49 PM
Hi Frank

I had assumed a Hitech solution would be loads of money and came across this method online and thought I would give it a go as it seemed pretty simple if a little time consuming. It would be interesting to know what you bought?

I recently watched a video on how Mercedes dealers check the tracking/castor etc and that is real Hitech and must cost a small fortune to buy (it was a US video taken in a main dealer).

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: squiglyzigly on March 17, 2021, 09:58:24 PM
Hi Peter,
It must feel good to hang those axle stands up.

Tracking. It’s a curious thing, in fact maybe even personal. Over the years on various FWD Italian cars I’ve often experimented with it. Like yourself, having done a few beta road miles and several hundred track laps I believe tracking is the most important setting to give or take your confidence and trust in a car.
The Beta for me has always been the most responsive car to the smallest of changes, a testament to its design.
The front tracking toeing out has never worked for me personally. Toe out gives slightly better traction but makes the turn-in slower. Mid corner is fairly similar but ‘on’ power corner exit is much better with toe-in. And if you push to understeer I always felt the toe-in made the car come back quicker and more predictably. But I suspect the factory setting is designed to be safe and manageable.

I’m not suggesting you change anything you’ve done or that the factory settings are wrong, but maybe to inspire an experiment when the time is right. Get to know your car and then see what works for you.

As for rear toe, there is only one setting that is safe. ‘Factory toe-in.’
Toe in or expect handfuls of opposite lock every time you lift the throttle mid turn. Fine for mid-corner trajectory adjustments on the track, but quite tricky to live with on the road.


Ian




Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 18, 2021, 04:50:01 PM
Hi Ian

Thanks, interesting comments and will squirrel away for future consideration. I am just really happy to get the wheels setup somewhere near given I have had most of the suspension off the car.

Today was another of those milestone days. I finished rebuilding the carb and put it back on the car. After warming the engine for 5 mins or so the choke came off and it was noticeably better at lower revs (previously impossible to idle below 2000rpm). After a number of goes tweaking the idle screw, the accelerator adjustment screw and also the idle timing I achieved stable idle at around 800 rpm. A full result.

So fresh with success I pushed the boat out, jacked up the front and went for clutch and gear selection. I was pretty amazed to find that there was no issues at all given the clutch has not moved in over 11 years. I was expecting it to be stuck to the flywheel. Also managed to select all gears without major issue, albeit not going down the road.

Next up remove the front jacks and for my first time I actually drove the car. Admittedly only 10 yards onto the drive and then back into the garage at very slow speed as the brakes are not 100% yet. The good news is the clutch feels very smooth, though I have no way of knowing if there is any clutch slip yet. It should however be in fairly good condition as the car has not actually done that many miles. The other good news was there were no nasty noises from the gearbox in the gears I used, 1st, 2nd and reverse.

I am now concentrating on the brakes as I want to put them to bed before I move on.

Peter



Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on March 18, 2021, 04:56:25 PM
Hi Peter

Fantastic news and I am suitably jealous of your progress just in time for Spring sunshine. The Clutch and Brakes will both have to bed in. You can expect a springy brake pedal with more travel until the pads work into the discs.

Eric


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: HFStuart on March 18, 2021, 07:18:55 PM
First drive under it's own power is a great feeling. Have a beer or three!


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: frankxhv773t on March 18, 2021, 09:32:44 PM
Peter, "Trackace" is what I bought. It aligns one front wheel against the other so you have to make sure you have puled up straight before you start measuring. Otherwise it works very well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VCo72Fyrao (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VCo72Fyrao)


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 19, 2021, 12:22:48 AM
Hi Frank

Looks very simple to use, glad they appear to provide a conversion chart to degrees!

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 19, 2021, 08:48:46 AM
On thinking about this system, am I correct in that it basically determines the relative toe-in/out between the two wheels and does not make any reference to the actual body of the car? This would work well for the front wheels, but how do you ensure that the rear wheels are measured relative to the chassis? It would be very easy to set them up correctly relative to each other, but at an angle to the chassis if that is the case.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on March 19, 2021, 08:58:04 AM
Hi Peter

I will be heading for Hunter Laser 4 wheel alignment very soon after the car moves under it's own power because toe in/out is only part of the mix. Set back is very likely with fully rebuilt cars. This is one side shorter than the other wheel center to wheel center. Sliding the rear roll bar in it's clamps can sort this out. Also camber front and rear. Before caster gets considered.

Use the string method to get you safely to first alignment IMHO.

Unfortunately Beta wishbones and rear links are always a pot hole away from dramatic mis-alignment especially when they have corrosion.

Eric 


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 19, 2021, 10:15:17 AM
Hi Eric

Interesting point on the side to side front/rear wheel distances. I had not considered that. Not sure my setup will be the same however on the anti roll bar as I have the original setup with ball joints fixed to the rear hubs. I will check the distances later today to confirm if they differ.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: frankxhv773t on March 19, 2021, 10:29:00 AM
Peter, as I understand it Tracright is intended for front wheel alignment, which is mostly what owners are concerned with. However, if one can assume the car was built accurately in the first place, could one not simply ensure that any rear tracking adjustment was shared equally between the adjusters on each side?


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: smithymc on March 19, 2021, 11:03:37 AM
There is more knowledge on here than generally at large as usual. When I took mine to be 4 wheel aligned they did the front and said the back isn't adjustable. Computer says no!

Mark


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 19, 2021, 11:51:18 AM
Peter, as I understand it Tracright is intended for front wheel alignment, which is mostly what owners are concerned with. However, if one can assume the car was built accurately in the first place, could one not simply ensure that any rear tracking adjustment was shared equally between the adjusters on each side?

Hi Frank

In a perfect world I guess so, but given the adjustments are measured in mm then I would not want to assume so. The adjustment tubes do not look to be the most accurate and the joints at either end could have threads cut to differing depths etc. You are also assuming the centre mount is very accurately positioned etc.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on March 19, 2021, 05:00:19 PM
Hi Mark

That sounds like operator idiot in action. Or perhaps his kit does not do 4 wheel alignment or his computer does not have setting for the rear on a Beta. There are factory published setting front and rear for Betas and we all know there are rear adjusters. I built mine with double rear adjusters as you see on Integrale. Fortunately Adams & Page my skilled local tyre fitters also do a lot of race and track days support, have Hunter 4 wheel alignment and know how to use it.

Betas with the suspensions settings correct and good bushes are fantastic cars to drive which is one of the reasons I have stuck with the build I am doing.

Eric
PS many modern cheaply made cars have no adjustment at the rear or need shims to adjust them. We are lucky. 


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 19, 2021, 05:18:38 PM
A quick check on the front to back distance of the hubs with the wheels off and hence at full travel gives a difference of 5mm which does not seem too bad, so not going to do anything about it.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: frankxhv773t on March 20, 2021, 11:58:13 AM
Peter, I should perhaps have put the "if" in block capitals. One of the hot rod builds my son was involved in required fitting the largest possible wheels under the back of a Ford Galaxy. It threw up all sorts of aggravation till they realised the wheel arch on one side was further forward compared to the other and the discrepancy was measured in inches!


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 21, 2021, 12:10:49 AM
Hi Frank

That sounds a bit like the Mustang that Retropower are restoring which they show on their weekly update videos.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 21, 2021, 12:27:29 AM
A few jobs ticked off today.

The foot brake connecting rod in the engine bay was shortened using the barrel adjuster. Gives the brake pedal a more normal feel for now. Expect that I shall recheck the bleeding of the brakes before I finish. I still have one pesky joint on the master cylinder where a very small amount of brake fluid appears after a while. I have tightened the bolt up a few times, but suspect the joint may need remaking at some point.

Main job today was tightening the suspension bolts on the front and rear anti roll bars, the rear transverse link arms and checking the adjustment of the rear brake balance valve.

That now leaves a relative small list of jobs to do until I can get the car tested etc. Some of them will take some time however...

Finish fitting rear hood. Currently fitted, but needs some stretching as excessively tight at present, going to try using a steamer which I have seen recommended.

Resolve door seals which currently are too thick in places to allow the doors to close.

Fit front wing indicator lenses. The wiring and bulb are all installed and working.

Fit windscreen. I will use professional company, but need to decide which of my 3 windscreens to use. All have one or more issues, so I need to go through that and decide.

Fit wipers and new blades. I have a few to choose from, but need to check just how good they are condition wise.

Adjust headlights

Adjust door glass as I must have reinstalled it incorrectly positioned as it currently leaves a gap when fully closed

Peter



Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: squiglyzigly on March 21, 2021, 10:16:49 AM
Nice to hear it’s nearly time to roll. You must have that feeling of excited apprehension?

Curious to hear what’s wrong with your 3 windscreens?
I have 2 spares and unfortunately they have issues as well. Notably delamination in the corner (air bubbles and channels).  I’d like to know if it’s possible to inject some kind of resin? Has anyone ever had this problem repaired successfully?


Cheers
Ian



Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on March 21, 2021, 01:11:29 PM
Hi Peter

You will hate this, but just get a new screen. Spoiling the ship for a half penny of tar moment. Let your existing screens go to someone doing an economy rolling restoration. It not as if these screens go into rubber seals which are relatively easily removed.

Eric
Pilkington supply them.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 21, 2021, 03:42:13 PM
Hi Eric

Yes, does depend on if any of them will be acceptable which I do not know yet. I had considered buying from Pilkington, but there was a discussion some time ago about the mould they have being poor and the glass not fitting correctly. Have you offered it up to see how well it fits? I am happy to be told they fit 100% and will look into it. I have no wish to fit something which I wish I had not..... especially I have taken two screens out of this car already!

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 22, 2021, 12:00:10 AM
Hi Eric

Out of interest who did you buy the screen from? I assume Pilkington use dealers/distributors?

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on March 22, 2021, 08:41:11 AM
Hi Peter

Pilkington direct after a conversation at the NEC show. I hope I have stored it well because I was told by a fitter screens can delaminate in storage so best to get them close to fitting time. Obviously I have had my new one for years. It is not possible to try it on the car now because the car is still at the paint shop.

Eric
PS the screen is not here either it is in my parts lock up.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on March 22, 2021, 09:02:45 AM
Peter I think the debate around the ill fitting Pilkington screen was eventually attributed to a mix up around a bonded v rubber seal version?


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 22, 2021, 09:18:27 AM
Hi Neil

I thought it was more serious than that. The difference between the bonded and rubber seal is essentially a size one, ie the seal one is just slightly smaller. I have had both here together and the curvature was the same, just around a cm or so to account for the seal. The issue I remember was that the fit in one or more corners was out by quite a bit such that it was not possible to fit it.

I did come across this post however, so suspect there may not be an issue.

https://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3959.0 (https://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3959.0)

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 22, 2021, 09:08:18 PM
Hi

I sent an enquiry off to Pilkingtons and received this reply.



“Good morning
 
Please see below options and the prices.
 
If you wish to proceed, please complete the attached form with as much information as possible.  Please note that due to the custom made nature of the item, payment is required on a proforma basis.
 
Please note that the price does not include VAT
 
The screens are made to order and our current lead time is 12 - 14 weeks.  Delivery is £40 to a Mainland UK address.  The glass will arrive wrapped with foam edge protection and a Triplex sticker
 
Eurocode
Description
Price
4716ABLBL - Blue with a blue top tint LANCIA BETA 1600-2000 CPE+HPE 76-83   £368.39
4716ABZ - Bronze LANCIA BETA 1600-2000 CPE+HPE 76-83   £389.49
4716ABZBL - Bronze with a blue top tint LANCIA BETA 1600-2000 CPE+HPE 76-83   £368.39
4716ACL - Clear LANCIA BETA 1600-2000 CPE+HPE 76-83   £315.92
4716ACLBL - Clear with a blue top tint LANCIA BETA 1600-2000 CPE+HPE 76-83   £289.75
4716ACLGN - Clear with a green top tint LANCIA BETA 1600-2000 CPE+HPE 76-83   £325.96
4716AGN - Green LANCIA BETA 1600-2000 CPE+HPE 76-83   £316.61
4716AGNBL - Green with a blue top tint LANCIA BETA 1600-2000 CPE+HPE 76-83   £327.04
4716AGNGN - Green with a green top tint LANCIA BETA 1600-2000 CPE+HPE 76-83   £327.04
 
I hope this is helpful
 
Kind regards
 
Emma Dony
 
*Please note quote are only valid for 3 months*
 
Customer Services Representative
 
Tel: 01527505209”


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: HFStuart on March 22, 2021, 09:57:44 PM
Wow - comprehensive and not too extortionate


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: squiglyzigly on March 22, 2021, 10:13:55 PM
Hi Peter,
Is there only the one size for both bonded and rubber seal screens?

Ian


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 22, 2021, 10:33:16 PM
Hi

Good question and they are different sizes, so no.

I will ask the question!

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: rossocorsa on March 22, 2021, 10:40:17 PM
I presume that all on that list are for bonded screens? The dates qouted are a bit odd and confusing but presumably allow for cars that were aged stock when first registered. I'm guessing that spiders always had bonded screens right up to 1982? I've never really took notice. Coupé changed much earlier, not sure about HPE.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on March 23, 2021, 08:45:09 AM
OK so now I have some doubt about what I have and a 12-14 week lead time is a wake up call to check.

What color combination was used on S2 FL Beta Spiders?

I think it would be wise for me to check both the color combination I have and the fit asap. I think I do not have any Spider screens for reference because the lash up Spider donor car had a VX screen in a rubber fitted and it is long gone complete with it's grinder burns.

Eric   


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 23, 2021, 10:22:44 AM
Hi

This thread has some info on the rubber mounted screens, will update when I get a response from Pilkington, but the ones above are for the bonded screens.

http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3959.0 (http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3959.0)

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: frankxhv773t on March 23, 2021, 12:01:16 PM
Am I wrong in thinking that S2 Betas had two facelifts so when talking about specifications you need to specify pre 1st facelift, facelift 1 or facelift 2?


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 24, 2021, 10:44:26 AM
Hi Frank

There were certainly a couple of facelifts from what I have seen, but do not ask me what the second facelift involves...

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 24, 2021, 10:51:28 AM
Interesting day yesterday. I needed a pair of new number plates and knew that you need to show proof of ownership to get new plates. I decided to get via one of the online sellers who have a good reputation, via Ebay. In their blurb they say you need to send them original documents which I was sort of ok with, but not enthusiastic about. However on buying them I then established a scan of the documents required and submitted via Ebay messages was sufficient. A good simple result.

Next up was a visit to the local Post Office who do deal with car tax. I enquired on changing the status to Historic Vehicle and the very helpful guy said he could not only send my updated V5C off for me, but could also tax it there and then. Took about 2 mins and I now have a taxed Historic Vehicle!

This was most surprising just how easy this was. Hope this helps others.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: Kevo on March 24, 2021, 11:33:41 AM
I’m having a new screen fitted via my insurance with auto windscreens, spoke to the insurance company and got ref no text from auto windscreens yesterday and auto windscreens should be contacting me today when they find out how soon they can get the screen. Having it done here in my garage so hopefully they will visit first to check the screen.
I’ll keep you all informed as to the outcome.
Update ***
Booked in for this Mon 29th, 4716AGNBL. Wasn’t sure if it was green with blue strip or clear with blue strip so went for green blue as that was in stock.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 24, 2021, 05:03:55 PM
Hi

Hopefully will go smoothly!

I have just sent an email ordering a clear with green strip which was the original in my car.

The 4 screens I have all have some issues, some small, but as Eric (and my wife) has said, no point doing all this and later wishing you had gone for a new one. I know how much of a ball ache it is to remove them as have done it twice already on this car and on the ones I scrapped. If anyone can make use of any of the screens I have, feel free to get in touch as it seems a waste to simply scrap them.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: frankxhv773t on March 24, 2021, 05:49:08 PM
Peter, Facelift 2 brought in black chrome and the new corporate grille, all as on the VX. I always think Facelift 1 could better have been called Series 3 because the changes were so substantial.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: Kevo on March 25, 2021, 03:02:52 PM
Hi

Hopefully will go smoothly!

I have just sent an email ordering a clear with green strip which was the original in my car.

The 4 screens I have all have some issues, some small, but as Eric (and my wife) has said, no point doing all this and later wishing you had gone for a new one. I know how much of a ball ache it is to remove them as have done it twice already on this car and on the ones I scrapped. If anyone can make use of any of the screens I have, feel free to get in touch as it seems a waste to simply scrap them.

Peter
Hi Peter
The guy is coming next Thursday now as he’s their old school installer, which I think is good for me.
I decided to take the screen out myself yesterday afternoon to deal with a little rust bubble or 2 and I removed the internal plastic trim but a few of the metal spring clips were broken. I don’t suppose you would know where I could get some from quickly? If available.
Hope you get your screen soon and all goes well.
Cheers Kev.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 25, 2021, 03:56:22 PM
Hi Kev

What metal spring clips? Can you post a photo?

Thanks

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on March 25, 2021, 05:23:07 PM
I am not sure which clips you mean, but maybe you mean the clips that hold the plastic trim onto the screen hole. Try Bresco  https://www.bresco.com/acatalog/Fasteners-p1.html (https://www.bresco.com/acatalog/Fasteners-p1.html)

Eric


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: Kevo on March 25, 2021, 05:56:54 PM
Peter/Eric Thanks, yes the bresco d clips look similar, I’ll have a measure up and see. Yes it’s for the plastic trim that goes around the screen hole. I think the plastic trim is also designed to lift the screen slightly away from the frame.
Many thanks Kev.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 27, 2021, 02:07:53 PM
Managed another couple of half days on the car. Getting to the point where a load of small tidy up jobs are being done. List of jobs done.

First up was a weeping brake pipe connection to the master cylinder. I had tried tightening a couple of times, but still weeped some fluid overnight. Turned out to be a bit of an own goal. I removed the the pipe and found the brake pipe union was the correct thread but wrong type. There are two types of ends to the unions, one is concave at the end and the other is flat. You need the appropriate tool to form the flare on the pipe to suit. My tool is for the concave type, but I had accidentally put a flat union onto the pipe so the flare had been distorted and not happy, hence the weep. Correct union installed and fresh flare, bleed that section of circuit and no more leaking.

Modified the valve spring compressor to accommodate the spring cap on the head as it needed opening out. Now works well.

Painted the adjusters for the track rod and some bits of bare metal in the engine bay I had missed.

Fitted the push fit connectors for the rubber boots which go around the steering rack arms.

Test fitted the under bonnet cover. This was a new one originally from Mark which Neil had surplus to his needs and I bought a few years back. It is designed for the later bonnet, but just needs a few extra screw holes and cut out for the two bonnet retainers on early ones.

I noticed my door window glass when closed had a small gap on the leading edge. So to adjust I had to remove the door card etc to get to the  two bolts which allow adjustment. I was not looking forward to removing the door card as a fair few bits to remove, but it came off and went back together fairly easily thankfully. A bit of trial and error and the glass fits a lot better. The other door glass I managed to get right first time.....

Next was fitting the two front inner wheel arch removable panels. These are held in via self tappers into nylon clips. I used stainless screws and washers to hopefully make them last!

Last job was drilling the two small holes in each of the front wings to accommodate the wing indicators. The wings are fibreglass and have the large hole already, but not the two holes for the fixing screws. After some careful measuring a pilot hole followed by 5mm drill gave a nice snug fit. I also ordered some stainless nuts to help with keeping them ‘undoable’ if needed.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: chrisc on March 28, 2021, 04:56:24 PM
On that windscreen list, do you think we're talking all of them are the same size / shape it's just tinting options? I note the code for all starts 4716 then varies depending on colours.

My screen is fine at the moment but with the windscreen scuttle as rusty as it is, no guarantees it'll come out intact.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 28, 2021, 06:12:44 PM
Hi Chris

My understanding is that they are all the same size, just differing tints and top colour.

Below is what I was sent re the size of the 4716 screen.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: mangocrazy on March 28, 2021, 10:33:33 PM
As a matter of interest, what would a brand new screen from Pilkington cost?


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on March 29, 2021, 12:04:22 AM
As a matter of interest, what would a brand new screen from Pilkington cost?

Hi Graham

The list of screens and pricing I posted on previous page on March 22.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on April 03, 2021, 06:10:22 PM
Managed a few hours over the last couple of days. Fitted the sill covers, bit of a pain with one of them as two of the screws sheared so had the joyous task of getting the shafts out, luckily they had left enough to grab hold with pliers, still took some effort to get them out. I had been using a sacrificial screw to form the threads, but obviously not quite enough. The covers had the suggested sticky stuff applied (I cannot remember the name at present!) and had the end caps fitted using the boiling water technique as they all ways seem to shrink and need softening to fit. End result is good, so happy with them, particularly like the L in the middle which is for some reason not there on the later cars I have seen. Photo below...

Next up one of the jobs I had been least looking forward to, the seals around the door. I had bought the seals from Woolies a long long time ago, being very similar in profile to the tatty originals that came on the car. I had fitted them to the doorway several months ago. The result was not great as both doors refused to close without enormous effort. So I bit the bullet and started trimming the flexi rubber. I found, by trial and error with a small sacrificial piece, the places where the fit was too tight and then either removed rubber or cut one side of the loop depending on how the door shut onto it. The end result is not that pretty in places, but I guess when the bodywork was being done the gaps were not consistent or maybe it was like that originally. I may look to revisit with new seals at some time, but for now it will do as not going to spend any more time on it.

Last job was fitting the front wings indicators as the stainless nuts had arrived. Another boiling water treatment for the lens plastic seals as they are way too small now with age and it was a struggle to get them to fit, but the end result looks well, so happy with them.

Also started aligning the headlights, which for me requires darkness or at least dusk. Having got them about right I need to do a bit of work to get the rear plastic covers to fit on the lights as all a bit tight at present. They are not essential as the lights are pretty well sealed against water getting in, but it would be nice to have them installed.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on April 05, 2021, 03:25:30 PM
On to boot mounted badges during the last couple of half days spent in the garage. The ones I have were very tired and so the debate on how to spruce them up. First idea, lightly sand and spray with silver paint and then paint in the black part. Not a great result on the silver paint, so decided to break out the polishing wheels I got for the stainless trim and see if they would polish up, it took a bit to clean up and then get a decent polished surface, but the end result is quite encouraging. Then on to the black part which requires patience, but any over painting of the polished part was easily wiped off. The end result looks quite decent. My only fear is how much the polished metal will tarnish over time, and hence do I try some sort of treatment such as clear lacquer or ordinary car polish/ceramic polish?

Any suggestions welcome.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: frankxhv773t on April 05, 2021, 06:10:38 PM
If satin lacquer is available that bight bring them closer to an original lustre whilst protecting from corrosion.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on April 06, 2021, 07:09:46 AM
Hi Peter

Impressive work. Perhaps Alloy Wheel wax regularly applied?

Eric


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on April 06, 2021, 07:45:05 AM
If satin lacquer is available that bight bring them closer to an original lustre whilst protecting from corrosion.

Hi Frank

After living with them a day or so I quite like the polished look and matches the stainless on the rest of the car.

Eric, thanks, sounds like a sensible suggestion. I was afraid lacquer would eventually get water underneath and look pretty bad.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: Sandro on April 06, 2021, 10:20:39 AM
Peter,

Nice job with the badges! beautiful.


A.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: frankxhv773t on April 06, 2021, 10:40:13 AM
They are pretty in their shiny condition Peter so if you like them that way waxing sounds like the way to go.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: Kevo on April 09, 2021, 02:10:29 PM
Hi

Hopefully will go smoothly!

I have just sent an email ordering a clear with green strip which was the original in my car.

The 4 screens I have all have some issues, some small, but as Eric (and my wife) has said, no point doing all this and later wishing you had gone for a new one. I know how much of a ball ache it is to remove them as have done it twice already on this car and on the ones I scrapped. If anyone can make use of any of the screens I have, feel free to get in touch as it seems a waste to simply scrap them.

Peter
I am not sure which clips you mean, but maybe you mean the clips that hold the plastic trim onto the screen hole. Try Bresco  https://www.bresco.com/acatalog/Fasteners-p1.html (https://www.bresco.com/acatalog/Fasteners-p1.html)

Eric

Just to let let you all know that the screen went in very well and also the clips suggested worked well but a little tight to fit.
Just new tyres to get now and I’m back on the road.
Cheers
Kev.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on April 09, 2021, 05:13:00 PM
Impressive Kev

I am just giving the Montecarlo much needed love whilst I wait for the Beta Spider to come back from the body shop. Servicing and Dinitrol basically. It was nice to look into the sills I welded on 16 years ago and see no rust  :) Got some use out of my fibre optic inspection device.

Eric


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on April 14, 2021, 06:01:15 PM
A small update. New wiper blades arrived, now the arms look decidedly tat so looking to see if Tex have any nice shiny ones...

Wheels had to go back to be rebalanced and checked as had a couple of weights come off whilst stored. They were happy to recheck each one FOC even after 4 months as they had not been used. Installed on car with polished wheel bolts and put centre caps in. Happy with result.

Also drilled second hole for each of the rear badges and fixed them using stainless lock washers. Also put the same Butyl strip behind the badges to support them as was used on the sill covers.
Not overly happy with the badges end result. They are both level but the angles of the boot gives an odd optical appearance to my mind. They are however staying as is at least for now.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: frankxhv773t on April 14, 2021, 08:30:07 PM
That looks stunning.

Was there anything special about polishing the wheel bolts and how are they coated to preserve them in good condition?


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on April 14, 2021, 08:43:25 PM
Hi Frank

See previous comments on the bolts, I had them rechromed, so nothing to do with them as far as I know!

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on April 17, 2021, 11:10:25 PM
Good day today, the V5C arrived stating Historic Vehicle, so all sorted on the Tax front. I still cannot believe it was that simple to apply for it.

Nothing much else to report as doing some service work on the Saab as has been neglected over the winter. Following on my recent comments about rust on it, I suspect when the Lancia is on the road, the Saab will take its place for parts to be cleaned and painted.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: frankxhv773t on April 18, 2021, 10:26:16 AM
Sorry Peter, when you said "polished" I thought it was another set.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on April 28, 2021, 04:02:52 PM
A little bit more bling arrived today.

First up, I spoke with Tex re stainless wiper arms and they do not have the spindle mount used on the Betas only a type they call the Lucas fit, however a bit of Googling and I turned up some ‘adapters’ which looked like they could be used to modify the the existing spindles to accept the Tex ones. I received these adapters a week or so ago and needed to drill out and re-tap the nut to fit the 8mm spindle. I also needed to drill out a small shoulder on the adapter and provide a seat for the existing cone shape on the existing wiper spindle. It actually fits quite snugly. I then sent one of the adapters and nut pairs off to Tex together with a pair of the original arms. The new arms arrived today and go really well with the blades I had previously bought from Tex. One of the photos shows the part numbers Tex use for the Wiper blade, top number, the smaller of the two wiper arms, middle number and the longer of the two arms, bottom number. All I need now is the windscreen to arrive!

Also in the post were a set of McGard locking wheel nuts which look the part as the plating matches the existing chromed wheel nuts.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on May 07, 2021, 11:16:08 AM
Not much progress due to family stuff and just off on a 1 year delayed holiday to Scotland. Timing was almost perfect with the relaxing of lockdown, pure luck as it happened as these were booked last April....

Anyway, only work recently done was falling out with rubber sealing strip around the door as getting the door to shut reliably without major effort has had me hacking the rubber seal with mixed results. Will have to revisit sometime and replace it. Very frustrating.

The other job I have been putting off for a long time was the fit of the rear hood. I bought this back around 2011 and went for a canvas one rather than the normal vinyl one. This appears to have given me a whole load of pain. I fitted it a few years ago, but have never been able to close the clips without them pulling out. Not sure if the later clips are better designed. The canvas is also very very tight which does mot help. So, after some reading about stretching the hood, and making up some makeshift ‘fasteners’ to keep the clips closed I attacked it with some steam and brute force. Finally managed to get the clips permanently closed and the intermediate bar in the correct place using pieces of wood to keep the space. The result is looking promising, but will need to make up permanent ‘fastners’ for the clips and keep having a god at stretching it a little more as part of the lip is now pointing upwards. However progress has been made.

Next major job will be the windscreen when it arrives.

Peter



Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: Nigel on May 07, 2021, 05:09:12 PM
Looking good Peter.

Would a Vinyl version stretch a bit vs. your canvas?

Canvas always looks better I reckon.

Well done.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on May 07, 2021, 05:33:14 PM
Hi Nigel

Thanks, yes a bit relieved that it is getting there, at first I thought I needed to buy a new hood. If you Google shrunk hoods however you will find folk with canvas hoods on various cars which look almost impossible to fit, but after working on them they get them to fit.

I think the vinyl responds more to heat than canvas. With the canvas it appears water/steam is the way to go.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on May 07, 2021, 05:53:43 PM
I have this joy to come with my new canvas hood. I am dreading it and wish I had just taken the whole lot to a trimmer to make on the car.

Of course it might fit perfectly first time, but that sort of luck is for others.

Eric


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: frankxhv773t on May 07, 2021, 07:05:07 PM
It's probably better to have to gradually stretch it into place than have it be an easy fit straight out the box and then go saggy in use.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: DARREN BETA. I.E on May 08, 2021, 12:15:42 AM
my new canves hood was the same i was streching streching and stretching but bottom corners still sat up a bit , but it dont leak so all good


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on May 26, 2021, 04:18:39 PM
Hi Frank

Yes, I did console myself with that thought....!

On another woo hoo day after just under 9 weeks Pilkington delivered my windscreen yesterday and offering it up against one of the old ones I have is a perfect fit both size and curvature wise which is a great relief.

Just need to polish up the surrounds and get someone in to fit it which will be the next nervous moment.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: mangocrazy on May 26, 2021, 07:11:46 PM
That's very encouraging to know, Peter. So Spider owners can purchase new screens from Piilkington with confidence. Another step on the way...


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on May 26, 2021, 08:43:35 PM
Hi Graham

They should be the same for the Coupe and HPE is my understanding.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: mangocrazy on May 26, 2021, 09:41:25 PM
Hi Peter,

Excellent. That's very good to know. At some point my windscreen will need to come out (again) to repair corrosion in that area that wasn't properly dealt with the first time the windscreen was taken out. It's good to know that if Bad Things Happen that there is a viable Plan B.

Graham


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on July 24, 2021, 07:40:19 PM
Hi

An eventful few months including a month in France which was work as we had not seen the house for 19 months and the spiders etc had taken hold with a vengeance + the garden had no tending in that time. Now 10 days quarantine…..

I have not done anything to the car other than regularly start it up and move it around on the drive.

I am hoping to have the screen fitted this coming Friday, nearly finished tidying up the stainless surround and will then polish it ready fir the fitter.

Hoping to make the August Beta meeting in her, however will need to put some miles in before I feel confident enough to undertake a long journey.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on July 27, 2021, 05:23:57 PM
Hi

Screen now being fitted next Thursday, a very busy man apparently.

Getting round to all those ‘I will sort that out later jobs’.

First up the doors not shutting/door seals to thick in places, cannot shut door without serious effort. I had hacked the door seals I had and made a right mess of them and the doors still did not close happily, however a bit of patience and I now have two closing doors which do not take a massive heave to close them, the seals are still however a mess and will need to be replaced, however I now have a good idea where they are too thick and need relieving.

I bought an under bonnet cover from Neil (supplied by Mark) a few years ago and finally have it fitted! Went in without any great drama and looks the part. Some of the pre made holes do not line up with the early bonnet, but that was simply resolved.

Lastly, installed a tracker, not a battery backed one, just a simple permanently powered one. I aim to pay the monthly cost when leaving it away from my home garage, but otherwise just leave it installed in the car. I know there has been discussions on here re which to use, but I was in two minds whether to even bother as although the car has significant meaning to me, not sure it classes as a most wanted as far as thieves are concerned. I think my neighbours TR6 is probably more interesting for them.



Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on August 01, 2021, 05:36:25 PM
Whist waiting fir the screen to go in on Thursday, I have been doing a few little tidying up jobs. The drivers door had caught the sill whilst no seal was in place, most annoying, so needed a bit of touch up. Not hugely happy with it, but will protect it and it is hidden with door shut. Also had a go at improving the rear hood fit. The hood now fits thanks to weeks of stretching, but there were and still is to a lesser extent, parts where the edge sticks out at the corners. Improved, but not yet 100%.

Today’s job was to resolve an annoying issue. The engine bay on the car has a light linked to the sidelights, however the boot has no interior light which is most annoying at night and so I decided to re-purpose a Coupe interior light which I had. It needed a rub down and repaint with silver paint, but otherwise is ok. End result is also ok and should help out when you need to go in the boot at night. Obviously it is a manual switch, but that is no big issue so long as you know where the switch is!

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on August 01, 2021, 06:15:34 PM
Another job which has been kicking around for ages was mounting the fire extinguisher. I really did not want to drill the floor and finally decided to tie wrap (yes not my favourite method) to the two seat belt metal brackets between the seats. It is fairly solid and convenient to get in a hurry and allows two (small) rear seat passengers at a push.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on August 02, 2021, 10:31:33 PM
What appears to be a very small and insignificant job I have been putting off for a long time are the external screws which go into the the door cards. I have put off doing it because it meant drilling the doorcards which were freshly covered and I could not decide on what colour the screw heads and cups would look best. In the end I went for simple stainless ones with small cups and screws. Always seemed a bit of a bodge given the rest of the door cards have clips etc, but they are shown in the parts book and do make sense in securing the top corners of the door cards.

Another job ticked off.

Peter


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: WestonE on August 03, 2021, 07:56:40 AM
It looks tidy to me Peter and I completely understand the stress in these decisions as I have them all over my build.

Eric


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on August 03, 2021, 08:05:21 AM
Did the same with my pre-facelift door cards back in the day. It was the only way to keep them reliably in place when the doors were slammed.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: squiglyzigly on August 03, 2021, 10:43:04 AM
Looks mint to me. Factory look imo


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: mangocrazy on August 03, 2021, 11:00:50 AM
It looks like it could have rolled off the production line like that, and is fully functional as well. I'd go with that, in fact I'll probably copy what you've done when I get round to doing mine.


Title: Re: Spyder restoration - long time coming
Post by: peteracs on August 03, 2021, 12:53:57 PM
Thanks for the vote of confidence! Happy with the result.

One point to note, the cups are solid stainless not the ones made from pressed sheet metal. They are significantly more expensive (still cheap), but the cheap ones will cut into the vinyl and make a right mess of it.

Peter