Lancia Beta Forum

General Category => Members Cars => Topic started by: HFStuart on November 20, 2011, 07:24:54 PM



Title: Winter Engine build
Post by: HFStuart on November 20, 2011, 07:24:54 PM
Before I bought it my Spider hadn't run in the last five years. I got it back into decent condition but only gave the engine a basic once over. I've put over a thousand miles on it over the summer (not much, but good going for me!) and the engine is obviously tired. Oil pressure is dropping slowly and it burns 1L oil per 250 miles - a combination of hard valve stem seals and worn rings I expect.

The good news is I have the engine from my black spider that I rebuilt a few years ago and that made 120bhp+ the one time I had it on the rollers.

I could just put it in as it is.....on the other hand we all like to fiddle. So the plan is:

Avanti Head (thanks Eric) with the larger inlet valves
2x45 DCOE
Mapped ignition using ford EDIS
Slightly increased compression ratio
4-2-1 Manifold and custom exhaust but keeping the swans neck end piece

Target is a very flexible 160bhp with a 7,000 rpm limit

I started in earnest today which meant getting the block from the shed to the garage. I do not recommend lifting a fully dressed T/C block into a wheelbarrow! Even with the flywheel off it was a little heavy side.
The good news is the pistons and bores are like new so I just need to measure the compression ratio as is and check the crank endfloat and then the crank will be comming out to go to Guy Croft with the flywheel and oilpump while either the head or block will get skimmed to get the CR where I want it. 

No doubt it will take me longer than I expect but I'll post up here occasionaly to let you know how I'm getting on.

Stuart


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: 75coupe on November 21, 2011, 07:40:20 AM
Make sure you post plenty of pics Stuart, good to see another "Twink" being tuned....what cams are you going to use, or are you going to stick with std?


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: WestonE on November 21, 2011, 08:18:21 AM
Stuart

Good to see the bits being put to good use. With cast pistons and your objective I suggest a GC 3A cam for the inlet side standard exhaust cam. This should give a fat torque curve and meet or exceed your BHP targets. I would skim the block to raise the compression but check piston to valve clearance with plasticiene in the valve cut outs with the cam you are using so you know how much you can remove and also whether the valve pockets need any machining. This will normally be number 1 or number 4.

Eric
PS Darren Cooksey went this route on his Montecarlo last year so have a look at his posts for the results.


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: HFStuart on November 21, 2011, 10:03:00 PM
Thanks,

I will be posting pics !

Cams I'm undecided at the moment but either std or a GC inlet. Anything else is pobably overkill for my needs and might not work that well given I'll not be going more than 9.8:1 on the CR

Skimming the block is the ideal option but today's measurement show I only have 0.64mm to play with before the pistons are level with the top of the block and that's assuming the pistons come no further up at 7,000 rpm. It's an 84.8 bore so the pistons are VERY close to the fire rings on the head gasket. I might have to take some from the block and a little from the head too but we'll see what the combustion chamber measurements suggest I need to remove before deciding that.


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: HFStuart on November 28, 2011, 10:41:58 PM
Some progress this weekend and pics of oily bits.

It takes a surprising amount of time to fully strip a block - most of the day in fact. Still few problems and everything looks in good nick.

First I measured the crank endfloat to make sure it was OK  - it is 0.1mm, then I measured the unswept volume in the bore, the volume in the head gasket and the combustion chamber volume using the burette and bit of plastic method. More on this in a bit. Once that was done stripping could start in earnest.

The biggest problems were getting the No.3 main bearing cap off and removing the aux shaft pulley. The pulley was tricky as I have nothing to hold it with - I ended up drilling two m6 holes through and putting bolts through them to hold it in place. The bearing cap was more of a challenge - I did it up with a good torque wrench a few years ago - but I needed my 4ft 3/4 drive breaker bar to undo them, the bolt was so tight the bolt head had swaged out at the bottom, razor sharp too as I found out.. God knows why it was so tight. Out with the crank, pistons and everything else to leave me with this

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/HFStuart/Spider%20Engine%20Rebuild/P1030292.jpg)

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/HFStuart/Spider%20Engine%20Rebuild/P1030293.jpg)

A box of bits for cleaning

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/HFStuart/Spider%20Engine%20Rebuild/P1030295.jpg)

and a crank and oil pump to go off to Guy Croft for checking  / prepping

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/HFStuart/Spider%20Engine%20Rebuild/P1030298.jpg)

All parts look in very good condition but then it had only done a thousand miles or so. Oddly I had put the big end caps on the wrong rods but it didn't seem to have done any harm.

Measuring the compression shows that, as it stands it would be 8.7:1 compression ratio, too low I suspect, especially if I want to go for a hotter inlet cam. To get it to 9.5 I need to deck the block 1.1mm. This will mean the piston crown is 0.35mm above the block at TDC. Piston to head clearance will be OK at 0.9mm but the head gasket is a problem. I've two old ones and the fire rings measure 84.75 - 84.85 diameter on both. That's too tight to the pistons which are 84.76mm (the engine is a 84.8mm overbore). The solution is to machine a chamfer on the edge of the piston crown  - just over 1mm at a 30 deg angle will do the trick. So my dad will have some homework to do in his workshop!

Next steps are to get the block skimmed, the pistons chamfered and the crank, flywheel and oilpump off to GC. In the meantime I've got a pile of bits to clean up and bag and a garage to tidy. Not to mention front hubs to fit, and a hood to sort out. Still it keeps me out of the house.

Stuart


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: rossocorsa on November 28, 2011, 11:15:44 PM
impressive progress I'm a bit jealous as at the moment as I can't really get on with any engine work yet. My garage remains way too dusty but now that almost all welding has been done on the shell I should be able to clean up and start work.


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: Hawk on November 29, 2011, 08:37:19 AM
Good work! 


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: MattNoVAT on November 29, 2011, 02:06:42 PM
Stuart are you going to have the block cleaned and painted?

How long do you think the engine upgrade will take?


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: rossocorsa on November 29, 2011, 03:23:31 PM
Stuart are you going to have the block cleaned and painted?



Wire wheel/elbow grease pot of grey paint and a brush is all that should be needed for that


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: MattNoVAT on November 29, 2011, 05:30:54 PM
Just wondering if it was going to be a "showcase" engine


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: WestonE on November 29, 2011, 08:25:22 PM
Stuart

Having built numerous engines over the years and prepared the blocks on a lot of them it is a job I am very happy to have GC do as his chemical cleaning kit is far superior to anything I can source and he cleans ALL of the oilways threads and bearing surfaces to an outstanding quality for reasonable money for a job with little joy involved in my experience.

Eric


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: HFStuart on November 30, 2011, 08:58:34 AM
The block was chemically cleaned when I first rebuilt it and internally it's still very good all in needed was a dowsing in brake cleaner and it came up with a nice matt grey finish.

The state it's in now is after about 1,000 miles and 2 years storage - it was painted silver hammerite over bare metal and looked quite tidy, I might try an engine paint this time. Hopfully it will look smart but it won't be a showpiece (sorry Matt!)

I'm not sure how long it will take, I suspect there will be a bit of a pause now while the bits are sent off for machining work. The aim is to have the engine in the car Feb next year.


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: HFStuart on December 08, 2011, 09:46:25 PM
Update:

Crank, flywheel and oil pump are with Guy Croft. All are useable which is a bonus. He hopes to have them all prepped and back to me before the holidays.

I've ordered the trigger wheel and sensor mount from http://www.millersmule.com (http://www.millersmule.com) I know I could have done one myself but sod it! I've also ordered the offset manifold from Guy and got an engine gasket set from Austria.

Looks like a busy Christmas!


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: rossocorsa on December 09, 2011, 09:21:27 AM
all sounds good! I popped into Guy Crofts yesterday and picked up a couple of parts the standard of work in there is genuinely amazing and you couldn't meet a more knowledgeable and friendly bloke.   


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: HFStuart on January 01, 2012, 01:50:01 PM
Finally I've found some time to get the garage sorted and the engine bits are back from Guy so I can start the build.

For those of you that haven't seen Guy's work the parts look rather better than they did...

Crank
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/HFStuart/Spider%20Engine%20Rebuild/Crank.jpg)

Crank prep detail
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/HFStuart/Spider%20Engine%20Rebuild/CrankPrep.jpg)

Oil Pump
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/HFStuart/Spider%20Engine%20Rebuild/OilPump.jpg)

Flywheel
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/HFStuart/Spider%20Engine%20Rebuild/Flywheel.jpg)

The block and pistons are done too
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/HFStuart/Spider%20Engine%20Rebuild/Block.jpg)

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/HFStuart/Spider%20Engine%20Rebuild/Pistons.jpg)

The only issue I've got is the sump. Mine's OK albeit with a weld repair but having spent lot's on the engine work I don't want to wreck it through surge. Does anyone have a good condition sump I could buy and does anyone have any ideas  / photos / drawings for sump baffles?


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: rossocorsa on January 01, 2012, 02:03:00 PM
looking good! Re sump I think I've never seen a beta sump that's not quite heavily dented (to match the subframe!) would also be interested in baffle design although for road use I may well live with it as is (time/money etc...). your oil pump pickup looks a good deal different to the vx one interesting shape to it is it shaped to fit the beta sump?


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: WestonE on January 02, 2012, 08:30:02 PM
Rosso

The VX pump has a reserve built into the pickup hence the bulge on the VX pumps. I have a fully baffled sump for my Volumetrico build and I thought Mark was supplying kits? somewhere I have photos and card templates, but not at all sure where!!

If you are stuck I can take fresh shots. I believe the baffled sump is vital to long term Beta engine life as I have seen so many wrecked bearings.

Eric   


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: HFStuart on January 15, 2012, 08:46:58 PM
Slow progress this week due to a spate of household disasters I ask you what are the odds of the boiler and shower packing up at the same time??

Anyway the block is up on the engine stand, it's been cleaned degreased and attacked with engine enamel  - boring aluminium colour but looks good enough.

Hopfully I can get on with the build now.


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: HFStuart on February 18, 2012, 11:50:07 AM
A quick update on this.


I found the little ends were worn and had play. Unusual but it had to be sorted so the conrods went off to Gosnays Engineering to be re-bushed and honed to size. Two weeks and 100 later they're back and a much better fit.

In the meantime the car itself has been to SCA in Norwich for them to do wheel alignment and get the corner weights. Having replaced all the hubs, bushes and balljoints I spent 80 to be told "yeah, it was pretty close to be honest" oh well at least I know!

In case anyone is interested The corner weights turned out as follows:

LF 306.5 RF 335.5 (642kg 60.3% front axle)
RL 210.5 RR 212.5 (423kg 39.7% rear axle)
Total 1,065kg

The car is now with the trimmer having a new hood fitted and replacement centre main bearing cap bolts have turned up this morning.

Is there a danger I might actually start to build it this weekend??

Stuart


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: 75coupe on February 20, 2012, 11:16:50 AM
Hi Stuart,

Interesting about the corner weights, I take it this was with everything standard? I plan on having my Coupe weighed after the rollcage has gone in to see what it is like, so good to see some figures, although I realise the spyder is heavier to start with. So nearly 30kg heavier Drivers side front? I suppose it was designed as a left hooker originally.....so with another 70+kg of driver it is quite unbalanced....

regards Ian


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: HFStuart on February 20, 2012, 07:47:17 PM
Ian,

Exactly my thoughts. With the engine over the right side I guess there's no help for it as there's nothing significant on that side that could be moved.

In a left hooker it's probably quite well balanced with just the driver on board.


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: WestonE on February 20, 2012, 10:04:50 PM
Oh Dear with my some what more than 70 KG I had better reach over from the passenger seat!

Eric

Slightly more seriously I will have to have the coil overs set up to compensate.


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: HFStuart on February 20, 2012, 11:09:25 PM
Oh Dear with my some what more than 70 KG I had better reach over from the passenger seat!

Leave the cam cover off - it's only 200g but it's a start  :)


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: 75coupe on February 22, 2012, 11:20:11 AM
Eric,

I am quite a bit more than 70 kg myself, although that is my target weight.......I had some Sparco Sprint V seats for Christmas and they are not built for portly fellows.....I hastily unwrapped them like a kid, sat in one on the floor, stood up and ended up walking around with it stuck to my **se until someone helped me out! I keep telling myself that if I lost 20kg, it would virtually compensate for the rollcage I am just about to fit!

Looks like I'll take up up clockwise oval racing....or take up rallying with a 100kg navigator!

Keep up the good work Stuart, hope to see your engine roar into life on youtube soon....

Regards Ian



Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: HFStuart on March 12, 2012, 08:33:37 PM
A slight change of plan in the last couple of weeks.

The engine is going together, progress is slow but I'll get there.

Of more interest is that I asked my dad to machine the rear of the pulley I got from Millers Mule to give a touch more clearance. This he did and left it in my garage next to a box that turned out to contain a pair of Solex 40 ADDHE Carbs! Apparently they'd belonged to the father of one of his colleauges, he passed away and the colleague had no use for them. Bit of a bonus really!

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/HFStuart/HPIM2073.jpg)

They need overhaul but even so.....

I was thinking that if I'm going to buy a pair of Webers I might as well go for injection. A free pair of carbs though changes this. So I'm going to use them for a Megajolt controlling the ignition.

In the meantime I've been shimming up the cams and found that there was no clearance on two of the valves, the seats have obviously dropped back a bit when the head was ported. I'd have had to go too thin of the shims to get the right clearance and that was worrying me a little unitl I found there are two thicknesses of cambox gasket roughly 0.9mm and 1.4mm. If I fit the 1.4mm hey presto clearance again.

Next step final assembly of the head and timing.

Stuart


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: HFStuart on June 02, 2012, 04:58:54 PM
Progress at last.

With today looking like the best of the weather I decided it was time to pull the old engine out.

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/HFStuart/Start.jpg)

4 Hours later using an A frame and the engine out from above method I have an old engine sat in the garden (all the best gardens have engines) and a very nose up Spider.

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/HFStuart/EngineCar.jpg)

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/HFStuart/EngineInGarden.jpg)

One result of the thrashing I gave it at the Beta 40th was the plugs swimming in engine oil - not something it had done before but I get one of the cam gaskets cried enough.

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/HFStuart/OilSpill.jpg)

So a build to finish over the next two wet days, a few bits to replace while I can get to them them and if I'm lucky I might be able to put the new one in on Tuesday or (more likely) next weekend
(edit to add pics)


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: 75coupe on June 04, 2012, 12:57:43 AM
Hi Stuart,

Just noticed you have an alloy rad in there with plastic tanks, where did you obtain it?

Ian


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: HFStuart on June 04, 2012, 09:29:27 AM
I honestly can't remember as I got it for my previous spider but it's a Valeo one and it's a perfect fit.


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: HFStuart on June 10, 2012, 10:53:06 PM
OK so it's not in yet but some good progress today on the bits that are easier to get to with the engine out.

New Betaboyz steering arm bushes fitted
New Speedo Cable
New Throttle Cable (after clearing about 250g of Ziebart from the bulkhead where it goes through - no wonder the other one didn't seat properly)
Heater control valve removed (it's a bit of a sod to get at), dismanteld and repaired using the guts of another.
New heater hoses fitted
CSC Manifold re-drilled

Doesn't soung like so much  - but it took the best part of four hours!


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: HFStuart on July 08, 2012, 10:54:18 PM
It lives, it lives...

More than a few issues of the one step forwards and two back type but it finally sprung into life this evening. There's no water in it so I only ran it for a few seconds but very satisfying for all that. Some of the issues:

The CSC four branch manifold isn't the best fit  - I've had to shim the engine mounts to get it missing the anti roll bar and off the floor of the car
Discovering a ripped driveshaft gaitor just after I'd put it back on and torqued everything up (I had checked before fitting but must have missed it)
No spark at all - turned out to be a random loose connection
Timing 180 deg out. Once I got a spark I also got an impressive backfire through the carb

I'll fill the cooling system tomorrow and try for a (gentle) test drive.


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: MattNoVAT on July 09, 2012, 08:19:50 AM
I'm imagining Dr Frankenstien type activity in Stuarts garage now  ;D

Well done Stuart, nothing as satisfying as an engine bursting into life after some major surgery.

Well done sir....


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: HFStuart on July 12, 2012, 10:27:56 PM
Bum,

It runs well pulls well but it's also generating it's own personal oil slick.

Somewhere from the top of the engine at thie back as the oil is dripping off the rear water rail. Sadly I've only just found the leak (it's 20 past ten!) so I'll have to cancel the exhasut appointment tomorrow.

Hopefully it's nothing too serious but I need some daylight and a cooler engine to see/feel where it's comming from and I got bored lying on the drive in the rain :-(

Stuart


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on July 13, 2012, 07:18:19 AM
Exhaust Cambox seal? Sounds like too much oil to be just the cam cover gasket.


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: HFStuart on July 13, 2012, 09:58:05 AM
I suspect so - the front one is certainly weeping so it's possible I've used a duff pair. They were both ones with red sealant lines on them, some of the other thicker ones I've used before don't have that. Annoying if I have to change them as I'll almost certainly have to re shim the cams.

Also I know I torqued the carrier bolts up to the specified 16lb/ft (IIRC) and that didn't seem very tight. I'll check in more detail this evening.


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on July 14, 2012, 11:49:22 AM
Maybe the bolts have loosened off? As you say, not very tight and lots of heat and vibration back there. The thinner gaskets you describe were used to cure my Cambox leak a while ago and have been fine. I was warned off the thicker cheaper ones.


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: HFStuart on July 15, 2012, 12:03:57 AM
I had limited time between rain and daughter today but long enough to establish that most of the carrier bolts had slackened off to only 10lbft or so - very odd as I re-torqued them a day after I first did them to account for the gasket settling. I'll do them back up tomorrow properly and see what happens.


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: HFStuart on September 23, 2012, 09:11:17 AM
A man could go off this car business you know.....

Yesterday I took the sump off (very fiddly with a baffled sump and the engine in the car) and found the baffle trap door was not stuck open by the pump in fact there was nothing at all obvious wrong. It's possible the pickup was stopping the door from opening so Mr Croft has oferred to mock up the assembly and see.

More seriously is that the while the big ends were scored the mains are shot in less than a thousand miles so the engine needs to come out again. Bugger.

Time pressures also mean it's unlikely to be back on the road for the NEC. Double bugger.

Trying to see the positive it'll allow me to replace the valve guides....


Title: Re: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: rossocorsa on September 23, 2012, 03:26:21 PM
I have my engine stripped as well scored big end bearings and a  couple with shiny patches suggesting oil starvation, crank and pistons seem to look ok though but of course looks can be deceptive GC described it as a typically ***** example from my photos. Not sure what to do at the moment as i dont have any spare funds for parts and even less skill to do anything myself looks like the car will sit around for a few more years yet! :-[


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: WestonE on September 23, 2012, 09:28:13 PM
Stuart

Chin up you spotted it and acted before destroying the engine when many people do not . You may never know the cause but I bet you will be systematically cleaning every gallery and channel on the re-build. I use sealed plastic crates for the cleaned parts and still clean them again with brake cleaner before building having created a working environment suitable for brain surgery!!

Good Luck

Eric
PS if you only need bearings, gaskets and time it is still a result       


Title: Re: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: rossocorsa on September 23, 2012, 09:39:59 PM
I think i'd be happy to be operated on in a workshop as clean as GCs the question is how the hell can that be replicated in a typical home garage full of junk? I can quite see how many home rebuilds are 'dirty'


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: HFStuart on September 23, 2012, 10:41:30 PM
As ever Eric you're quite right.

I'd be less frustrated if it weren't for the fact that it's hardly my first build, not even my first T/C. It is my first 'failure' though and the fact that I don't know what I did bugs me.

Still I'll see what Guy says of the baffles and then it's reassembly with perhaps news rings and a hone and new guides & seats. Then everything carefully together and see how it goes. Given the power it made on the standard carb it was obvioulsy fundamentaly a good unit. I've ordered that VX oil pump to go with it - though as it's New Old Stock Guy might get that to check too.

PS As of today the garage is cleaned and painted  ;)


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: HFStuart on June 29, 2013, 09:48:46 AM
Wow - I'd forgotten how old this thread was...

With the second rebuild engine in, running and MOT'd with (so far) no sign of the previous oil surge I've had a bit of a windfall from Mr PPI courtesy of HBOS.

So next week I'm going to Emerald tuning to talk about sizing of Jenveys and the kit of parts I need to convert. I've already got some bits for the Megajolt I was going to put on some of which I can use but obviously there's lots more for EFI. I'll also have a measure up to see if I can get the shorter (91mm) Jenvey TBs in without moving the radiator.

Watch this space but with luck in a couple of months I should have a very interesting car to drive.

NB For those worried about originality everything will be reversible!


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: HFStuart on September 29, 2013, 07:04:47 PM
I've made steady progress on the throttle body conversion, particulary in the last two weekends but if anyone is thinking of doing this don't be fooled by thinking it's a 'bolt-on' job.

Just about every part of it has required a modification and/or some serious head scratching. Just fitting the TBs required three different lengths of studs and the Guy Croft manifold much the same. I've had to fit an idler pulley to the alternator belt to stop it fouling the crank sensor. Even the ECU itself has a custome made bracket to sit on. I've made things a little more difficult for myself by having everything easily reversible but there's still a load to do to fit around family and children.

Going in - BTW when fitting a GC inlet put the servo vacuum offtake in first otherwise you'll find there isn't quite enough room to rotate it and end up cutting it short as you can't face removing the manifold again....
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/HFStuart/P1050594a.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/HFStuart/media/P1050594a.jpg.html)

Fuel lines going in  - this is a bit more advanced now with both low pressure and high pressure circuits finished and pressure tested
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/HFStuart/P1050753a.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/HFStuart/media/P1050753a.jpg.html)

More pics to follow.


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: lanciamad on October 05, 2013, 09:05:55 PM
Nice to see this progressing Stuart, look forward to following it, I hope to get mine done eventually  :-\


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: HFStuart on October 05, 2013, 09:28:44 PM
The throttle cable went on today (again a bit of a problem - custom made clevis for the pedal end and an M8 adjuster to get through the bulkhead, with the cable routed though the middle of the alternator bracket) and amazingly I got a perfect fit first time with full throttle as the pedal hit the stop.

Last weekend I finished and pressure tested the fuel system. That was all OK at 5 bar so I've turned it back down to 3 ready for running. Calculations on flow rates showed that the mechanical pump would probably be OK as a lift pump but I decided 'probably' wasn't good enough so a solid state facet has gone under the boot floor, wired in tandem with the HP pump. Both pumps are supplied vial a fused relay the feed to which goes through an inertia switch (just in case). I may yet run them via an oil pressure switch too but I haven't quite figured out how to deal with starting 

All the mechanical and fuel is now done. Wife and daughter are way next weekend so I expect that's when I'll do the electrical and maybe see if she'll start.

BTW does anyone know even roughly how the oil pressure gauge is calibrated and/or what pressure the light comes on at?


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: WestonE on October 15, 2013, 09:24:25 AM
Stuart

You have done very well and the low oil pressure switch come on at 14PSI which Is why I changes mine for one that switches at 35PSI (demon tweeks via 1/8NPt to 14mm adaptor. For the cranks sensor I used a cut down VX pulley and a disc from twigger wheels.com because the VX pulley has a step on it. Sorry I cannot engage more my wife is in hospital so I am not very lancia focused just now.

Eric 


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: WestonE on October 15, 2013, 09:29:56 AM
Stuart

For the oil pressure/temp gauge invest in proper ones i.e. Autometer or Racetech with the matched senders. For a single gauge I would go for the Racetech mechanical combined oil pressure oil temp with the oil temp in the plumbing coming back from the oil cooler to the engine. You just cannot trust the Lancia gauges or the wiring to them to tell you what you need to know.

Eric


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: HFStuart on October 15, 2013, 12:38:03 PM
Thanks Eric - 14psi eek!

I think I'll change the pressure sender for a decent one and find a discreet location for a decent capiliary gauge as I agree the Lancia one is not trustworthy. When I had a T/C in my skoda I ended up with a racetech one - a perfect fit in the OE dash too!

I like the case study in the new GC book by the way - though I think Guy could have used a better proofreader.

I didn't get as much done at the weekend as I'd hoped but the cables are roughtly routed with CTS ATS, power and earth connected. I have also sprial wrapped the cables runs that are in final position and managed to cut my face with the end of it as it whipped round  (ouch)


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: Ammy on October 15, 2013, 07:19:12 PM
"People in glass houses" springs to mind ! ! !


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: HFStuart on October 15, 2013, 07:24:10 PM
Very true  - but I'm not publishing a book and Guy claims it was proof read!


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: HFStuart on January 28, 2014, 04:51:35 PM
So.....first time on the car since before Christmas, a day and a half of wiring and...

It didn't start

Then I saw I'd left the dust caps in the throttle bodies ( idiot ! ) and away it went. OK so it didn't run very long and the bodies  / pot etc need setting up but it started and ran on all four and made a very nice noise too!

Very happy at the moment.

Less good is that the Ford coil pack has M4 pin connections so my leads don't fit and I'll have to get a custom set made - my brass nut bodge will do for now though.


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: HFStuart on February 01, 2014, 06:43:02 PM
A bit of fettling today.

The custom leads turned up (24hr turnaround from Magnecor - very good) so I fitted them also the rampipes and temporary filters. A few other bits & bobs too like the cam cover and strut braces.

I jury rigged the tacho drive to find it needs a voltage amplifier to run - not to worry one cam with the ECU so I fitted that too.

The engine ran and idled OK but it wouldn't pick up cleanly, it was just like carbs with no accelerator pump. Before I mucked about with anything I spoke to Emerald and they suggested using the injector scaling function to adjust the whole map at once. Suspecting it was lean I started increasing the fuelling in small increments. Once I got to 25% more fuel it then ran really well, perhaps a touch rich but I'll cope with that until it's mapped (booked for the 24th Feb). I then used the live adjustment feature to lean off the idle mixture a bit to give a lump free idle.

A ten minute round the block and all seems very well it pulls cleanly with bags of torque on part throttle and nothing fell off or went bang.

I'm seriously impressed with the Emerald kit now I've got used to it and I'm struggling to believe it's actually working - I'm not sure how it could have gone better.

I've a few more jobs to do - fabricate an airbox, fit an in head thermostat and probably move the radiator out a bit more but essentially it's done. I'm now VERY curious to see what it makes when Emerald map it.


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: WestonE on February 13, 2014, 05:28:26 PM
Stuart

Congratulations and good luck on the Rolling Road. I would suggest you run it in on the Rolling Road (40 minutes) and do an oil Change before full mapping. And I strongly suggest you do not drive it any more under load until it has been mapped e.g. use a trailer.

Cheers

Eric 


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: HFStuart on February 16, 2014, 11:01:31 PM
Thankfully the engines done 500 trouble free miles on the carb before I started the conversion so it's nicely bedded in.

Todays work was finishing fabricating the airbox and giving in and moving the rad.

I'm quite please with the airbox considering I've never made anything like it before. Pop rivets rather than welded but good enough I think

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/HFStuart/sP1060132.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/HFStuart/media/sP1060132.jpg.html)

The curve on it is to clear the alternator battery +ve

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/HFStuart/sP1060133.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/HFStuart/media/sP1060133.jpg.html)

I've used some neoprene foam to get the lid to seal.

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/HFStuart/sP1060134.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/HFStuart/media/sP1060134.jpg.html)


I also cleared out the shed to try to find my spare top rail (which wasn't in there...)  Amazingly this is just the stuff that was in the shed on the floor the stuff on the racks stayed put (the roller is helping the fence stand up in the wind!)

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/HFStuart/sP1060130.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/HFStuart/media/sP1060130.jpg.html)

Next weekend reassembly and making sure it still runs OK.


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: 75coupe on February 23, 2014, 12:42:23 PM
Nice work on the airbox Stuart! Are you using a remote filter?


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: HFStuart on February 25, 2014, 03:27:04 PM
And the answer is......

153 bhp @ 6300 without the airbox
147 bhp @ 6300 with the airbox.

Near flat torque curve from 3000rpm at 130-135lb/ft and will take full throttle from 1200prm in 5th.

Nothing fell off, nothing broke and the guy on the road described mapping it as a pleasure

I'm really, really happy with that. I can't belive how driveable it is, there's no big rush to the red line just a linear shove and a great sound to go with it.
It's properly quick, quick enough that the rev counter can't keep up in second so I hit the soft cut at 6400 while the rev counter still said 5800!

With the airbox off it ran slightly lean at higher revs so there was probably a few more horses to come. We didn't bother mapping that as it's stupidly noisy with just the trumpets and I wouldn't run it on the road like that.

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/HFStuart/BetaPowerPlotSmall.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/HFStuart/media/BetaPowerPlotSmall.jpg.html)

This was taken from the middle of the session when we ran it to 6200. It looked to be tailing off but we ran to 6400rpm and peak was at just under 6300


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: gengis on February 25, 2014, 11:21:08 PM
Absolutely superb...you got to be pleased with that.

Enjoy.


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: HFStuart on February 25, 2014, 11:24:25 PM
Here's a clip of the rolling road session

(And yes, I'm delighted with it)

Lancia Beta Spider Rolling Road. Jenvey Throttle bodies + Emerald (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AgCW5sUsl4#ws)


Title: Re: Winter Engine build
Post by: lbcoupe76 on March 06, 2014, 02:44:05 AM
Nice one, sounds good too.