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Author Topic: Clutch Wear  (Read 6587 times)
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lanciamad
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Marcus Robinson


« on: April 11, 2010, 10:41:35 AM »

Just out of interest, i'd like people's thoughts on the wear that my clutch generally receive's on a track day. My understanding is that the majority of clutch wear happens when the clutch is slipped ie. pulling away from standstill. Compared to on the track where the clutch is effectively on and off, but of course is being engaged mostly at a flywheel rotating at 5,500rpm. The car is running standard engine and gearbox (rolling roaded at 108bhp, but bang on torque figure) and weighs 100kg lighter than standard without driver so effectively has less weight to pull around.
Idea being I can work out generally how long I can expect the clutch to last, of course no one knows that but if i've got a rough idea I know how much i've got to play with, before sorting out the throttle bodies, uprated engine with bodies, uprated engine with bodies with lsd, where the clutch will obviously be uprated.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2010, 12:58:05 PM by lanciamad » Logged

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WestonE
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« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2010, 08:43:38 PM »

The issue with the clutch on your application is shock torque loading. Your power is below OE standard so not much threat to the clutch short term. However you must upgrade it with the new engine perhaps using a delta turbo 1600 clutch if you can find one. When I first fitted twin 45s to one of my Betas (155BHP 140 ft lbs) the valeo clutch failed within 500 yards. It just fell apart under load leaving me with no drive and bits of friction plate hanging out of the bell housing. As you are doing racing starts you just need your luck to hold until the new engine is ready I guess.

Eric
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MattNoVAT
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« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2010, 11:04:54 AM »

I'm glad (in a way) to see that I am not the only one to make the kind of assumptions that Eric made!  In 2001, I put a 325BHP Bob Brain Developments 2 litre Grp N engine into my HF4WD after its standard engine threw a rod out the block (messy Grin!!)

My OEM HF4WD clutch failed in spectacular style in the same way as Eric's did.  So I put a competition paddle clutch in (450). 

The new clutch was money well spent - not suitable for daily driving but for the track ... perfect.
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75coupe
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« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2010, 12:34:44 AM »

Hi All,

I must be very lucky judging by the above, as the standard clutch in my Coupe has survived 18 months of abuse at Hillclimbs, where I usually do up to 10 standing starts per meeting, where I do a burnout with the handbrake on to clean/warm tyres (Toyo semi slicks) and then a start from the line. My spec is 2 litre, 10.8:1 CR, 42/82 cams, twin 45's, but I use 1800 gearbox with 3.92:1 final drive. I am planning an LSD in the near future, as inside wheelspin out of corners is a problem (although much improved with the lowered/spax set up), so an uprated clutch is definately required.

The standard clutch is unsurprisingly showing signs of wear with this abuse, and the upper engine tie rod broke its spot welds too - I recommend seam welding this where the tube end meets the bush end.

Apart from the Delta 1600 clutch option are there any other uprated clutches that will fit at a reasonable cost? I was thinking about early Fiat Tipo or coupe 16V (not turbo), not sure of diameter etc, I know all the 2 litre turbo clutches are larger in diameter, so presume a different flywheel is required.
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Grundo
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« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2010, 04:54:18 AM »

While I am in NZ the principle should still apply with you guys, I today recieved my clutch back from a company in NZ that refurbishes and uprates your clutch. Give them your flywheel, pressure plate and clutch plate and they change the spring force (went from 1000lb's to 2200lb's) and they reline the clutch with carbon kevlar. Also ground the flywheel face as well. All for GBP200. They can do ceramic facing as well so everything is possible. They do a lot of work on porsche race clutches so its proven stuff.

Much better than spending a fortune on a slightly more uprated clutch - I couldn't find a proper alternative under GBP500.
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75coupe
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« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2010, 09:07:30 AM »

I have a friend with an uprated clutch done by a local company in Brisbane, they charged him over AU$600!!! still for a mildly uprated item! (Car was a Fiat 124 spider 1800)

Grundo I take it your clutch was a VX item which is already bigger than a std 2 litre?
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Grundo
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« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2010, 09:52:04 PM »

Yes its the 228mm clutch plate, same as the thema. It worked very very well, just now with an LSD and larger Carb etc I want the belt and braces approach.
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thecolonel
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« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2010, 07:41:42 PM »

I've picked up a Dedra 4x4 clutch 235 mm which the surface diameter on the Gamma flywheel.
much heavier springs.
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75coupe
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« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2010, 02:45:23 AM »

Just found this on the net, anyone had any experience of this US company? Seems a good price (for me in OZ anyway). They do 5 different specs of clutch, from mild to Full out race....http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SPEC-Clutch-Kit-Stage-1-Lancia-Beta-79-82-2-0L-Gamma-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem483ab9a7baQQitemZ310222890938QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

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thecolonel
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« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2010, 11:56:29 AM »

I looked at these a while ago, but couldn't find anyone who'd actully used one.
might be worth looking at a few American forums.

Geoff
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75coupe
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« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2010, 11:42:03 AM »

Thanks Geoff, I have been scouring various forums, and it appears that there are mixed reviews, but it seems most of them concern life expectancy and chatter, but this is from guys drag racing big HP V8's.....no feedback on humble naturally aspirated Lancia's yet unfortunately!

Looks like I might take the plunge and be the guinea pig......
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75coupe
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« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2010, 12:36:42 PM »

Well here is the Spec clutch compared to std Valeo 2 litre OE clutch (which just came out of my car - still holding up despite the abuse...)

The first thing I noticed is that the presure plate is actually lighter than the OE one, but the friction plate is heavier! Overall the spec clutch is slightly lighter, which coupled woth a lightened flywheel will take 2kg off clutch/flywheel assy.

The friction plate looks substantially more robust than the OE valeo one, heavier gauge steel, more rivets etc. Pressure plate has more clamp force than OE. I opted for uprated organic type instead of outright race paddle type with sintered facings, as I still want to use it on the road.

Will update on findings once installed and tested with new engine currently in build which should have around 180 BHP, so will definately test it!

Have attached photos below


* Valeo pressure plate1.JPG (23.99 KB, 448x336 - viewed 707 times.)

* Spec pressure plate1.JPG (33.8 KB, 448x336 - viewed 730 times.)

* OE valeo friction plate1.JPG (24.78 KB, 448x336 - viewed 709 times.)

* Spec organic friction plate 1.JPG (35 KB, 448x336 - viewed 782 times.)
« Last Edit: August 12, 2010, 07:11:24 AM by 75coupe » Logged
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