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Author Topic: Tappet shim removal and measuring.....  (Read 10947 times)
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Thotos
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Theo Kyriacou


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« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2013, 08:31:59 PM »

If the tool looks like this:



then it should do the job fine  Wink

I have an original FIAT tool bought MANY years ago and it's very similar but with a long 'handle' rather than the short stubby one. I believe that even the later FIAT tools had the short stubby 'handle' to stop people trying to use the tool to lever the valve open.
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Theo Kyriacou
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« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2013, 04:02:09 PM »

Hi Thotos,

The tool I've just bought looks exactly like that. I imagine that Vick Autos and International Autos get their tools from the same source, as they look identical.
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« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2013, 12:02:44 PM »

The one I bought was like that but the metal it was made out if was very soft, they have to locate accurately on the edge of the bucket and it kept "spreading".
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2013, 11:36:35 PM »

Ah - OK. So the only way you know if you've got a tool which works properly is when you come to use it for the first time...
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
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« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2013, 11:38:45 AM »

Dear Mangocrazy,
I thought I would dig out the pair of tools that I bought many years ago whilst living in South London. At the time I was messing about with a Fiat 128 3P, and asked at my local dealers about shim adjustment and removal etc. The dealers were "Spur Garage of Wimbledon", (Lancia and Fiat dealers for many years). They recommended buying these two tools that I have pictured here. They were not that expensive but I have been very impressed with them since. They work just as well on twin cam heads, as I have recently adjusted the tappet shims on our 124 Spider.
Anyway if any of you can find these they would be worth getting! The shim depression lever is certainly man enough, but does not damage anything along the way. The tappet bucket spacer is double ended, and you insert it to one side of the bucket. Each end is slightly different, one end is symmetrical about the end view, the other is handed for one side only. I only assume it gives you a choice depending on head?
The FIAT numbers are:

FIAT 1860 443 000 (Top tool)
FIAT 1860 747 000 (bottom tool)

Happy to help!
Chas and Anne. Cheesy


* Image0502.jpg (118.72 KB, 1600x1200 - viewed 697 times.)
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« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2013, 12:15:55 PM »

Hi Chas/Anne/Mango + whoever!

Found one here (probably the easy one!)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Timing-Tensioner-Tool-FITS-Fiat-1-4-12v-OEM-1860443000-/360344393373?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item53e633169d

The other not so easy I guess, but interesting ref on Guy Croft forum

http://www.guy-croft.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1233

Peter
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« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2013, 12:09:15 AM »

My Spider is currently in France, but I do have a spare engine in a lock-up garage. So I took off the cambox top and tried out my newly acquired tool. I'm not sure If I wasn't doing it right or not, but whatever I tried I couldn't get the damn thing to work. I presume that the object of the exercise is to hook the tool under the camshaft on one of the cylinders where the valve/shim isn't under tension; i.e. where the cam lobe is pointing vaguely upwards, and use the tool to press down on the bucket while leaving the shim(s) free to be removed.

Would that be a fair summary of what I should be trying to do? If that's the case, I failed. In most cases I couldn't get the tool in 'square', and when I did appear to do so, I wasn't able to depress the bucket. Was I doing something wrong, or have I bought a duff example of this mythical tool?

Next question - does anyone actually have one of the original Fiat-made tools that looks like the one Vick Autos sell (i.e. not the one that Chas has very kindly photographed), and does it work as intended?
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
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peteracs
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« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2013, 08:50:45 AM »

My Spider is currently in France, but I do have a spare engine in a lock-up garage. So I took off the cambox top and tried out my newly acquired tool. I'm not sure If I wasn't doing it right or not, but whatever I tried I couldn't get the damn thing to work. I presume that the object of the exercise is to hook the tool under the camshaft on one of the cylinders where the valve/shim isn't under tension; i.e. where the cam lobe is pointing vaguely upwards, and use the tool to press down on the bucket while leaving the shim(s) free to be removed.

Would that be a fair summary of what I should be trying to do? If that's the case, I failed. In most cases I couldn't get the tool in 'square', and when I did appear to do so, I wasn't able to depress the bucket. Was I doing something wrong, or have I bought a duff example of this mythical tool?

Next question - does anyone actually have one of the original Fiat-made tools that looks like the one Vick Autos sell (i.e. not the one that Chas has very kindly photographed), and does it work as intended?

From what I have read, I thought you should start with the valve depressed via the cam, insert the tool, then rotate the cam slightly to take tension off the valve, but not too much, then you can remove/replace the shims?

Not got around to this yet, so only speaking from what I have read, I am sure someone here will give a fuller answer with experience to support it!

Peter
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« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2013, 09:27:50 AM »

Peterac that sounds logical. I suppose you would rotate the cam as the "lever" to open the gap, then introduce the "gapping prong tool". Then rotate until tension holds the bucket down and keeps the gap open enough to remove said shim.
Worth a go?
Best,
Chas Roll Eyes
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Ammy
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« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2013, 09:57:23 AM »

I have an original Fiat tool which is not as substantial as the one photographed, ( age limits my I.T.knowledge so I can't add photo ). I have always rotated the camshaft to depress bucket,  inserted holding tool,  then rotated a further 180 degrees to allow shim to be removed.  I've also only ever used a cheap electrical screwdriver to remove shim,   filed down and "bent" to fit.  No problem for this  "junior" ! ! !
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peteracs
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« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2013, 10:55:35 AM »

I have an original Fiat tool which is not as substantial as the one photographed, ( age limits my I.T.knowledge so I can't add photo ). I have always rotated the camshaft to depress bucket,  inserted holding tool,  then rotated a further 180 degrees to allow shim to be removed.  I've also only ever used a cheap electrical screwdriver to remove shim,   filed down and "bent" to fit.  No problem for this  "junior" ! ! !

Thanks for that, new someone would be along with first hand knowledge.

My only concern here would be the 180 degrees as the engine is an interference one as far as piston/valves are concerned and would be cautious how far I rotate the engine with a valve effectively stuck open, but if it works for you, then no harm done.

Peter
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2013, 11:17:02 AM »

I have an original Fiat tool which is not as substantial as the one photographed, ( age limits my I.T.knowledge so I can't add photo ). I have always rotated the camshaft to depress bucket,  inserted holding tool,  then rotated a further 180 degrees to allow shim to be removed.  I've also only ever used a cheap electrical screwdriver to remove shim,   filed down and "bent" to fit.  No problem for this  "junior" ! ! !
Now you put it that way, it all makes perfect sense. Let the cam do the hard work of depressing the valve spring, then use 'the tool' to keep the bucket depressed while removing the shim. Thankyou - as suspected it was operator error...   Roll Eyes
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
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« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2013, 11:02:26 AM »

Further to this, would anyone happen to know the external diameter of a shim and the internal and external diameters of the bucket? I'm interested to know just what dimensions we're talking about here, and how accurately sized the cam tool has to be. I suspect we're dealing in millimetres or less here...
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
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« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2013, 10:15:10 PM »

Hi,
I'm new on here but did own a Beta Spyder some years ago, plus a number of Fiats and later an Alfa Spider. Out of all of them, it's the Beta Spyder that I wish I'd kept.....

Anyway, back to the forum topic - My father has gone into a home at the age of 89, and I've been emptying out his shed and garage. He was a mechanic all of his working life, many years of which were spent at a Fiat agent. As a result, I've found a box of about 50 shims plus a wide array of special Fiat tools - many of which will be suitable for the Beta engine. Do I keep them in case I have another Lancis/Fiat twin cam car or clear some space.....?
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Neil-yaj396
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« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2013, 06:55:49 AM »

Just don't throw them away. I'm sure you would find people would want them.
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MattNoVAT
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« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2013, 07:06:45 AM »

As Neil says until you decide whether to get another Fiat/Lancia do not throw them away.

Contact the Admins via the link at the top of the page if you wish to dispose of these as a job lot, this will help all forum members potentially benefit from their availability.
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Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car. Oversteer is when you hit the wall with the back of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you send the wall across the field once youve hit it.
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« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2013, 10:04:04 AM »

Yes, that could be a veritable goldmine of parts and tools. It's excellent news that someone who knew what they were looking at and their potential value was doing the clear-out. I wonder how many other potential treasure troves have simply been skipped?
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
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