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Author Topic: 2000ie Help !  (Read 1625 times)
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tonylanciabeta
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« on: November 30, 2008, 08:05:02 PM »


From: Lanciamad  (Original Message)   Sent: 06/09/2007 18:30
Has any one made any modifications to there ignition system?
What problems have people found and how did they solve them?
 
My problem is that i cant seem to get a spark, whatever i try !!! I did also have a problem with fuel as the pump would not work, but this just happend to be a bad contact at the inline fuse.
 
This is the setup of my car at the moment, please feel free to dis-agree and let me know of any mods.
 
Ignition Barrel Wires
Green/Black = Ignition, 3pin connector front offside.
Brown = 12v feed.
Black = 12v feed.
Red = Starter motor
Blue/Black = Lights/wipers
 
Coil
Red 12v feed and yellow (ECU) oneside
Red ignition amplifier and blue/white ignition amplifier the other.
Is this correct?
 
2 Distributor wires go into the ignition amplifier and two wires come out the other side of the amplifier which are fitted onto the coil (Red and blue/white) the same side. The other side has a red 12v feed and yellow (ECU)
Is this correct?
 
I did manage to get a spark with this setup, decided to plug everything just as it was but in a more organised fasion and the spark has gone and not come back.
 
What can i try? Has anyone changed there system? and is there anyway of using the original system but maybe bypassing things?




From: hutch6610   Sent: 07/10/2007 14:35
You seem to have some serious problems!
Your engine should not run so rich that it would black up the plugs.
You may have a blocked return pipe to the tank or a duff fuel regulator on the injector ring main.
Jammed open injectors are another possibility.
Even the cold start injector may be pumping fuel in all the time.
Try starting the engine and have somebody disconect the wire to it - see if it makes any difference.
Do the timing marks on the timing belt end all line up as they should?
The pipe you talk about sounds like it should go to a vacuum advance - but IE's don't have a vacuum advance on the distributor.
Take a photo of your engine bay and post it here - never know some thing may show up.
One question for you - you bought this car like this? - by that i mean it did not just develop this problem over night?



From: Lanciamad   Sent: 11/10/2007 21:51
Yeh i bought the car as a runner although it didn't run well then. I then went to start the car to drive off the trailer and it didn't start and hasn't until recently. Originally i believe it had a digiplex system or something similar, then someone changed the loom to use the system it has now but still using the digiplex loom, i have since changed the loom and components to the standard marelli electronic ignition system, also replacing the loom for the ignition barrel etc...
 
I swapped ECU's and the car just idle's from cold now, and thats just, (Idle screw, screwed pretty much fully out) once car stopped and warm then it fails to idle. Started car with and without cold start injector connected, made no difference.
 
When idling it seems to get to the point of stalling then pick up and repeats the process, could there be a fault with the air flow meter? Where it's telling the ECU false information? The filter and housing isn't connected at the moment, would this cause the engine to suck more air in through the flow meter telling it to inject more fuel, even though its not needed. Or that the flow meter is broken and is only telling the ECU to inject maximum fuel at all times?
 
Any other reason, why the plugs would go black so quickly, or is a very rich mixture my problem.
 
Will also, take some pics. soon.
 
 




From: hutch6610   Sent: 15/10/2007 00:58
The hunting you describe is due to the engine running rich for a number of reasons ............but not actually witnessing the events as they unfold. it is difficult to give advice.

the air filter missing will not cause this - it would lean it off a little.

Before you condemn your airflow meter, best do some checks first.

You changed your ECU - is it correct (number that is?)


You can fit either ECU - for Digiplex or Hall effect distributor and you would not notice any difference.

Try checking the throttle position sensor on the throttle body with a multimeter or similar.
ECU has to be told it is on "idle".
Remove the plug and check that centre pin 18 (common) has continuity with pin 2 (idle).

If not make sure that you have enough slack in the throttle cable to allow the throttle to close properly.
If it is ok and the switch does not give a reading slacken off the two screws and turn it until it gives the reading.
Then test pins 18 and 3 (full power) - they will only read with the throttle over 3/4 open.

Try this and at least you will be able to eliminate this as a possible cause.

Once you have set this up try leaning the engine off by unscrewing the 5mm allen key screw in the side (facing the battery) to lean the engine off.

You may require one of those 90 degree headed screw drivers that you can change the tips on to make life easier for you.

unscrew until the engine leans off and begins to pick up.

No joy and you may have a blocked return line or a dodgy pressure regulator on the injector ring main.

Try this and let me know what happens.







From: Lanciamad   Sent: 20/10/2007 09:25
I have two different ECU's available to me (different numbers), i have tried both and there seems to be absolutely no difference.
 
Throttle position sensor looks good, gives reading, contacts all good etc.
 
Throttle body closes correctly.
 
On partial throttle the car seems to sound much healthier, but takes its time to pick up, when given some throttle, if that helps?
 
I'm unsure about the location of the 5mm allen key screw, whereabouts is this located?



 

From: hutch6610   Sent: 21/10/2007 21:37
Stand on the battery side and look between the flow meter and water rail.

It's on the cast metal near the glued plastic cover right at the bottom - just above the mounting bracket (where you cannot see it!)
Could still have the blue plastic tamper proof plug!

The screw is a air bypass just like the throttle body adjustment.

May be a good idea to remove the whole device and pop the plastic off and inspect the inside for condensation or corrosion - make sure stylus makes good contact with the track - clean with switch cleaner or WD 40.

If all appears well, refit the plastic with two part epoxy - NEVER use super glue - this would mist up the internal contacts.

Refit and leave the three mounting bolts so you can lift and tilt the meter,that way you can gain easier access to the adjustment.

Remember - anti clockwise to lean off and clockwise to richen.

Adjust in quarter increments to begin with and see how it behaves.

I'll post the serial number just in case somebody has fitted the wrong one - never know.

If this checks out ok then your next step will be the ring main pressure.





From: Lanciamad   Sent: 21/10/2007 21:44
Do you mean the slotted screw on the opposite side of the battery at the base of the air flow meter?




From: hutch6610   Sent: 23/10/2007 17:48
Unusual, you have a slotted screw.
If it's a recessed screw, that will be the adjustment you are looking for.
Better check the serial number and post it here for you just in case.





From: hutch6610   Sent: 24/10/2007 17:52
Just to follow up, check the serial number.

Number on the plastic cover should be - 0 208 202 015.

About one in six of my stock of airflow meters have slotted screws.





From: Lanciamad   Sent: 02/11/2007 18:54
The serial number i've got on the unit is, 0 280 202 015, although my problems may not be totally solved by replacing the unit, i think it's worth while as long as i can get a replacement.
 
The fuel pump runs as soon as ignition is turned on, from other people i have heard it should only start running as it senses air flowing through it, ie. the flap inside is moved.
 
Sound faulty???
 
Also, the flap when moved by hand to maximum air flow, hits against the casing inside, and also looks like the black plastic backing to the unit has been taken off in its history and re-glued back on.
 
 


From: hutch6610   Sent: 03/11/2007 15:48
Well your serial number is correct - on the plastic that is.
Probably worth changing due to the flap fouling the casing, will at least be one less faulty item to worry about.

The fuel pump powers on when the starter is operated and continues when the flap moves from the stop position in the meter.

Could be a fault in the meter causing this and the only way to check is to unplug it and put the ignition on - if the pump works with the harness unplugged, somebody has been messing with the wiring.

Unfortunately the pump running all the time will not cause the over fueling you are experiencing.

As i mentioned before the fuel pressure may be too high in the ring main or the return line has been blocked or damaged some way.

Change the flow meter and see how it goes and then we can move onto the next step.





From: Lanciamad   Sent: 21/11/2007 18:17
Sorry i havn't replied earlier, but having time to work on the car has been limited and the weather hasn't helped either.
 
I went in search of a new unit, but found out that bosch stopped producing it in 2000 and no one has any units. So if i do change the unit it'll have to be a second hand unit, which is finding to be quite a challenge.
 
I decided to have a look at the unit i have, and it seems ok but had some how managed to be stuck see photo DSC0129, which i believe to be incorrect? I have since put the unit to what i believe to be correct, DSC00127 and full throttle (Maximum air flow) DSC00128, is this correct now?
 
The car is now idling with this setting, but any use of the throttle kills the engine dead as if it's being choked.  In comparison to where it was where the engine ran fine and picked up well, but wouldn't idle meaning partial throttle.
 
Do i need to play with the screw in the air flow meter and idle screw? Should shutting off any air going through the bypass channel in the flow meter cause the flap to open telling the ecu to inject more fuel? As i'm guessing it's idling as it is but as soon as any throttle is used the engine is being flooded by air and hasn't got the fuel there to be burnt?

 DSC00131.JPG   DSC00128.JPG   DSC00127.JPG   DSC00129.JPG 




From: Lanciamad   Sent: 22/11/2007 17:33
I've been fiddling again.
I'm not sure if the flow meter is in the right position or not (see DSC00115), but i've managed to get the car running as close as i have got, to perfection.
 
I put it to what i believed to be the right position and the car would idle but any use of the throttle stalled the engine, i put this down to the engine sucking in more air but the flap not moving causing a very lean mixture which stalled the engine.
 
I then put it back to the position it is now (In the pic.) knowing that the car would run perfectly as long as partial throttle was used; and noticed that a part of the mechanism was touching restricting movement. I bent this slightly out the way and this means the flap can move freely. I then played with the screw in the air flow meter which eventually has allowed the engine to idle by itself; adjusted the idle screw and everything seems ok for now . Engine idles and picks up beautifully.
 
Would still like to know whether this setup is correct; even if its working for me now.
 


 

From: hutch6610   Sent: 25/11/2007 14:25
If you wanted to buy a good second hand flow meter you only had to ask.
I dropped a HEAVY hint in an earlier post.

I will have a look in a good flow meter and let you know soon.

Really to be honest - you want to drive the car and see how well it pulls.

I also sent you a schematic of a Bosch injection system, did you get it?




From: Lanciamad   Sent: 26/11/2007 22:36
Yes thanks; very useful, everything looks to be connected up correctly.
 
I seem to have found the problem; which i am pretty sure; is that the flow meter is sticking or been fiddled with in the past. I think i've got the car running correctly now or know how to make it run correctly when the flow meter decides to stick.
 
So i think; i'll buy a good second hand unit from you. If the offers still there? And hopefully that will be months of work and puzzling, come to a happy ending.
 
I know i should stick with solving one problem at a time; but the rev counter isn't working, is that purely the blue/white wire from the coil straight to the counter?



 

From: hutch6610   Sent: 02/12/2007 19:21
No problem, let me know if you definitely want a flow meter - they are not going anywhere.

I was far sighted enough ten years ago to store pretty much everything i would need to keep a Beta on the road for quite some time.

Your rev-counter wire as you have already guessed goes from the coil to the dash, via a plug in the back.

You may have a faulty rev-counter unit or bad wiring behind the dash board - possible one of the small brass nuts that connect it to the circuit board have come undone and fallen off - does happen from time to time.

The unit has three connections;
1, 12v live
2, 12v negative
3, Signal from the coil (blue/white)

Pull the instruments out and to aid you releasing the speedo cable you can push it through the bulkhead - it should be bolted to the cam box cover behind the air filter.

You can then just barely turn the unit over and probe the wires with a multimeter for power and continuity.
Good luck.


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