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http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4080.0
 
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Author Topic: Help with Ignition barrel wires  (Read 1864 times)
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tonylanciabeta
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« on: November 30, 2008, 06:53:10 PM »

From: Lanciamad  (Original Message)   Sent: 24/04/2007 18:08
I'm getting ever closer to sorting out my HPE wiring, i'm hoping once i've connected up the Ignition barrel the two litre twin cam will run once again. But i need help .........
 
Could someone tell me where the 5 wires off the barrel go to?
 
There is Green black, blue black, red, brown and black.
 
I'm pretty sure blue black goes to the wiper/lights stalk assembly.
Is green-black power from battery?
and what do black, brown and red, do/go to?
 
The reason i ask is i'm only replacing these 5 wires and the original loom is so cut up, i cant trust what it has at the moment.
 
 


From: A1-6HPE   Sent: 24/04/2007 23:30
Hello,
Red - Solenoid feed on starter motor
Black - Unfused feed from battery (via fuse box but could go direct) Connects to Blue/Black when ON
Brown - Same as Black (could use the same wire if made heavy enough). Connects to Green/Black when ON
Green/Black - feed to Ignition system
Blue/Black - feed to lighting circuit

Presumably the idea behind the two seperate battery feeds is to separate the ignition supply from the lighting supply but in practice that is unnecessary.



From: Lanciamad   Sent: 25/04/2007 22:43
Thanks for the information. When you say, "Green/Black - feed to Ignition system", what does the green/black connect to? and if possible what connector block etc am i looking for Huh?





From: A1-6HPE   Sent: 26/04/2007 19:15
You didn't say what version of HPE you have.
On a car with Bosch ignition the green/black runs to the ballast resistor for the the ignition coil and from there to the Bosch amplifier connector.
The cars that have contact breakers are similar, but I don't know if there is a ballast resistor, if not the green/black will connect to the + on the coil.
You need to get a wiring diagram. Try http://lancisti.net/ downloads area.





From: Lanciamad   Sent: 28/04/2007 20:25
Thanks for the info. again, i'll have a go monday and report on my progress.





From: Lanciamad   Sent: 13/05/2007 22:42
The day has arrived, where she will live again. Connected up the ignition barrel wires CORRECTLY, with the new 2nd hand loom i got from mark, and did it start .............. no.
 
But; luckily i had a spare dizzy which i've now fitted along with a new/old coil, and once again she sparks. I think the fault was the 2 wires that come off the dizzy that go into the ignition amplifier, and a confusing combination on the coil.
 
However, the car still doesn't run. Leaving a fuel problem, a lack of it. Can the fuel pump be heard running normally Huh? and when does it normally run Huh? As soon as the igniton is turned on?





From: Betaorbust   Sent: 15/05/2007 10:59
Hi Lancia Mad
You may know all this already and it's been a few years since I was trying to fix my car (I hope I haven't forgotten too much)
I had great fun getting my Coupe running when it had fuel pump problems.
In the end I wired the pump directly to the battery through a switch (with a fuse, for safety) so I could establish that the fuel supply was an issue.
Anyway that worked so I knew where to focus my efforts.

The pump won't run unless the flap in the airflow meter is drawn open by air, you can use your hand to try this out.That's why the car won't start without the air filter attached so try that. Then there is the double relay that bolts to the strut I found corrosion on the connectors here so I fixed that up renewed a few earths and it all worked fine.
Hope this might help a bit!





From: Lanciamad   Sent: 18/05/2007 10:30
Thanks for the help. I held the flap in the air flow meter open with a bit of tube, but still no luck. I checked the voltage to the pump and it was fine and the double relay seems to be fine, not saying 100% it is.
 
Is there any other reason why the fuel pump and/or the injectors wouldn't work, without investigating into them? Would the injectors only inject knowing there's fuel present?
 
I guess possibilities of a faulty ecu, bad connection lol, faulty double relay (1 side is fine 100%, other not sure), any others?
 
I have had the tank off recently, to do some welding on it, so possibility of a connection coming lose when i put it back on is possible.
 
Another problem; possibly related to this same problem? On the dash the fuel level indicator was working and also the battery voltage gauge were working and are now refusing to. It will probably end up to be the usual bad connection, and by moving a wire suddenly the car will live again.



 

From: Betaorbust   Sent: 19/05/2007 13:28
Hi There
If you are getting power to the fuel pump , you will hear the fuel pump running. (Unless it is knackered) So I gather you don't hear it making any noise or running.
Is the pump disconnected when you take voltage the measurements at the pump?
If it's disconnected your meter might measure say 11volts but there isn't enough current capacity because of a poor connection.
You can test this by using a test light at the fuel pump connectors say a 21W brake light bulb in an old fitting if this lights bright I would say the connections are fine.
Check the spade connectors that plug into the pump, are they loose or corroded ? It gets mucky up there under the back wheel? Do they need to be nipped tighter with a plier?
One other thing , if you measure the voltage at the pump, does it go off when you release the flap? When you turn off the key? Just to make sure that it didn't get stuck on and burn the pump out.
I have an old pump lying around, I can check the resistance across the terminals.I would say if the pump is blown you get an open circuit or infinite resistance.
Paul 
 





From: Lanciamad   Sent: 22/05/2007 21:53
No i don't hear it making any noises or running, unfortunately.  Had a quick play round with the wires going to it.
Checked voltage of battery 12v.
Grey wire in engine bay either side of connector 12v, but the connector in the boot that also has a wire from the fuel level system = (2black wires and a grey going into 1 grey and 1 black heading towards engine bay), the grey wire is reading 2v there.
 
So with the spare loom i have, i connected that up and gave exactly the same voltage of 2v going to the pump even though there is a 12volts feed at the engine bay connector. Huh?? Ideas?
 
Shouldn't the fuel pump have a 12v feed?





From: Betaorbust   Sent: 23/05/2007 16:10
Hi There
I will have a look at my car again, it's been a while and I'm rusty (like my car)

Best place to check the pump voltage is at the pump (under the car)
Off the top of my head 2V could be the voltage that the fuel tank sender is giving out because it's part (one sixth) full.
When you measured the 12V in the engine bay could you confirm the 12V present with the flap open and the 12V gone with the flap closed? I think you can also hear the double relay click when you open and close the flap.
If you can confirm this and you are only getting 2V at the pump terminals you must have a bad connection probably
the connection to ground for the pump, it could be a bad ring terminal or something. Can't remember where it is located.
Good luck !





From: Lanciamad   Sent: 26/05/2007 00:12
I put an extra 10 litres of fuel into the tank from the previous 3-4 litres, disconnected a few connections and connected them again, reconnected the battery, turned the key and everything clicked and ran into place. . The fuel pump seems fine as it can be heard running in the back, and i believe its doing its job, as you can hear a slight noise coming from somewhere along the fuel line, fuel rail. Fuel Pressure regulator Huh?
The fuel pump on my car starts running as soon as the key is turned, and doesn't seem to make any difference what ever position the flap in the air flow meter is at.
But, still she doesn't run. On injection models, is there any reason why the injectors would not inject the fuel, knowing there is fuel getting to them???
I suppose a possibility i should check is also timing as i have no knowledge of whether this is correct or completely incorrect.





From: Lanciamad   Sent: 01/06/2007 23:59
So close but so far.
 
Found the reason why the car still won't run, i have a fuel supply now but no spark !!! beta electrics. lol.
 
So i am putting this down to either the coil, dizzy or ignition amplifier.
Order of importance possibly needed :
dizzy
ignition amplifier
coil
all for beta 2000ie.
 
Has anyone got a spare of these?
 
Also, Could someone tell me the layout of the four wires that are connected to the coil, so at least i am confident my wirings all correct, on the 2000ie.
 

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