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Author Topic: Still having starting problems - am a bit stumped now???  (Read 3195 times)
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MattNoVAT
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« on: April 08, 2010, 10:04:15 PM »

After changing the starter motor for a nice shiney reconned one, my initial tests after swapping seem to have been successful but my celebrations may be a little premature (started a dozen or more times without issue, I go back out two days later and turn the key....... Good Solid CLICK every time I turn the key to fire her up.  As I release the key there is a softer click, presumably its the cog dropping back into the "rest"position.

(At this point the battery voltage drops down slightly when the starter "should" be turning, so its drawing current when the key is turned.

Battery is approx 18 months old and holds 13v, when it does turn over its nice and strong and not labouring in any way.

While changing the starter motor I re-crimped a new female spade on the exciter wire as that fell off in my hand when I checked it.

I cleaned up all connections from the battery to starter motor, cable from alternator to starter motor etc.

When the car is running there is a steady 14v going back to the battery, so its charging properly.

I'm wondering if I have a duff cell in the battery or some other problem and if should invest in a quality Varta/Bosch battery -  I always had Varta batteries on all my old Betas and for some reason didn't on this one.

Kinda stumped for other things to check/try out to get this permanently resolved - so any ideas are gratefully received!

Will be working on the car Saturday as she's coming out of winter hibernation.  Grin Grin Grin


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1981 2000 Coupe S2/FL
1976 1600 Coupe S1

Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car. Oversteer is when you hit the wall with the back of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you send the wall across the field once youve hit it.
MattNoVAT
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« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2010, 09:10:19 AM »

I am wondering (possibly grasping at straws) but both battery cable clamps are non original.

At some point they have been replaced with items like the one in the fleabay link below, the heavy cable that heads to the starter motor does seem to be of a smaller diameter to the hole it's slotted into and then secured by the two clamps, from memory the Beta had a soldered in cable to the battery so the clamp and cable "became one piece" if you know what I mean.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Battery-terminals-connector-12v-car-van-hgv-boat-BRASS_W0QQitemZ380220570627QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item5886e97c03

I wonder if that is allowing enough to engage the starter but not provide enough juice to actually get it turning?

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1981 2000 Coupe S2/FL
1976 1600 Coupe S1

Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car. Oversteer is when you hit the wall with the back of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you send the wall across the field once youve hit it.
thecolonel
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« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2010, 12:28:44 PM »

I'd be inclined to try a jump lead from Neg (-) battery pole to engine.
an awful lot of electric problems can be traced to a faulty earth.

Geoff
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lanciamad
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Marcus Robinson


« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2010, 12:44:00 PM »

an awful lot of electric problems can be traced to a faulty earth.

Geoff
Second that! The negative should be ok as original, it is attached to the gearbox, or should be. I had a reconditioned starter which did the click, but with more use improved and has worked everytime since for the last 5 years now on my delta. Unfortunately I think it might be the starter itself.
Does it do the click and not turn the engine over everytime? or occasionally?
You could disconnect the "exciter wire" and run a wire straight from starter to battery, (you becoming the switch) and see if it makes any difference.
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1982 - Lancia Beta HPE 2000ie - Track - http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=472.0
1988 - Lancia Delta HF Turbo - Sorn - http://www.lanciasport.com/forum/index.php?topic=2585.0
1989 - Lancia Delta 1300 LX - Sorn
1988 - BMW E30 325i - Track
2005 - Subaru Forester XT STI - Road
MattNoVAT
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« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2010, 08:23:13 PM »

I wondered about the starter itself and also the frequency of use, as the car has been laid up over the winter but it has been started up and run regularly in the garage, the problem has got more "frequent" over the past 12 months which is why I think its something breaking down. Like either an internal issue to the battery or an earth breaking down.

I'll break out the big electrical cables tomorrow and see how I get on.
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1981 2000 Coupe S2/FL
1976 1600 Coupe S1

Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car. Oversteer is when you hit the wall with the back of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you send the wall across the field once youve hit it.
MattNoVAT
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« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2010, 04:54:59 PM »

Today I will rename as "Earth Day" or has someone had that already?

Went through every earth in the engine bay today cleaning, ensuring good grounding etc and also added an extra to be on the safe side from battery to side of cam shaft.

Finally, the car starts properly, its as strong as a bull when I turn the key and takes about 3 seconds to catch and fire up.  So all in all very pleased and very grateful to those who reminded me that bad earths are usually the culprit, even though I spent ages working on them middle of last year. Seems I missed a few!

Also, played around with the wiper motor today also as I am working on an upgrade so that the wipers move at more than an asthmatic speed!

Had the front wheels off to give them a clean and check the front brakes as the pad warning light flickers from time to time.  When I got the wheels off theres no sensors in the pads and no cabling coming out to the calipers.  Funny that coz I could have sworn that there were wear indicators in mine!  But then it has been a while since I've had to change them.

Then gave the car a wash and polish ready for the start of May when it'll be taxed and back on the road ready for Auto-Italia at Brooklands, had two people stop and admire the car and reminisce about them "back in the day" all positive, no mention of rust issues or anything - all very pleasant stuff.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2010, 04:57:38 PM by MattNoVAT » Logged

1981 2000 Coupe S2/FL
1976 1600 Coupe S1

Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car. Oversteer is when you hit the wall with the back of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you send the wall across the field once youve hit it.
cheeky monkey
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« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2010, 06:51:51 PM »

good to hear you got car starting sorted Matt.
I had a new forum member round today who is thinking  about a beta for restoration and earth points was one of the items we discussed when going around my car.
I hope to get to brooklands too but having just passed the MOT with flying colours, the radiator is causing problems. there is no thread left on either the plug or the radiator hole. I cant believe ive got away with driving the last month the way it was, so looking for a reconned radiator or a quick fix on the original.
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Graham

1979 beta coupe 1300
MattNoVAT
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« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2010, 10:46:15 PM »

The drain hole at the bottom?  Can you not drill/tap it out and fit a larger plug?  Then flush out any swarf or debris.

Once I finished working on the Beta, I prepped my BMW for a sprint / track day tomorrow at North Weald Airfield, when I finished that I was still in the mood to play with my Beta so I re-dyed my VX leather steering wheel.  It had some shiny sections and some worn/faded areas, so I used the touch up leather dye I have for my BMW's seats and I'm very pleased with the results.

There are still a couple of little jobs to do on the Beta but todays been a good day  Grin

Hope you get the rad sorted....
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1981 2000 Coupe S2/FL
1976 1600 Coupe S1

Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car. Oversteer is when you hit the wall with the back of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you send the wall across the field once youve hit it.
Neil-yaj396
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1979 1300 Coupe


« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2010, 12:16:39 PM »

good to hear you got car starting sorted Matt.
I had a new forum member round today who is thinking  about a beta for restoration and earth points was one of the items we discussed when going around my car.
I hope to get to brooklands too but having just passed the MOT with flying colours, the radiator is causing problems. there is no thread left on either the plug or the radiator hole. I cant believe ive got away with driving the last month the way it was, so looking for a reconned radiator or a quick fix on the original.

There are a couple of radiators on ebay at the moment - look ok in the photos.
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thecolonel
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« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2010, 10:34:19 PM »

Glad you're running again, don't forget the pad warning is also the fluid level warning
sometimes just going round a corner or hard braking will cause a flicker.
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MattNoVAT
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« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2010, 01:21:39 PM »

I checked and topped up the fluid as I thought that would be the problem, as the car is not taxed I am reluctant to drive it on the road to test it.  But all will be resolved by end of the April (Tax disc starts 1st May)
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1981 2000 Coupe S2/FL
1976 1600 Coupe S1

Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car. Oversteer is when you hit the wall with the back of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you send the wall across the field once youve hit it.
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