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Author Topic: Replacement oil filter housing needed for 2 litre Beta engine  (Read 737 times)
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Gromit
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1979 Coupe 2000


« on: April 12, 2024, 02:39:09 PM »

Our 1979 Lancia Beta Coupe is currently in the workshop undergoing a brake system overhaul including all four caliper refurbishment which I picked up from local, (Adelaide, Australia), brake refurbishment specialists Power Brakes today. There was a broken "thrust clutch" part in one of the rear calipers which they replaced with a second hand one they had in stock (handy!).

The mechanical fuel pump was also replaced with a NOS Fispa one after the old one died when I was driving the car on Easter Saturday. Fortunately I had the electric priming fuel pump, (which we had previously fitted to the car to save wear on the starter motor and flywheel ring gear), to fall back on to get me home once I realised it was a fuel starvation problem and not an ignition problem. The alternator was removed to facilitate fitment of the fuel pump and it was then that the problems were discovered which are the subject of this post.

The car was fitted with air conditioning by a local dealership when it was new which was standard practice back then in Australia to keep the import cost down, (reduce import duties), and meet a minimum local content threshold which put it into a lower import duty category. A custom bracket was used to support both the air compressor and alternator. The mechanic working on the car noticed that the whole compressor and mounting bracket assembly was loose and had excessive play or movement. He initially suspected a damaged or sheared oil filter housing mounting bolt. I told him to remove the air con compressor, (permanently!), as it was just a heavy lump of metal dead weight. The air conditioning had not worked from the day my father bought the car as an approximately 10 year old second hand vehicle, (around 1990 as I recall). He had just removed the drive belt and left it there.

After 44 years of vibration, jolts and constant heavy strain the great lump of air con compressor has broken the mounting bracket, causing excessive movement and greatly enlarged the locating holes of the oil filter housing projecting ledge through which the bushed long bolt fits to support the compressor/alternator mounting bracket. Not only that, the additional movement has broken pieces of the oil filter housing casting around the top two block mounting bolt holes, weakening the attachment point to the engine block. None of this damage was clearly visible until the compressor was removed.

Bottom line is I need a new oil filter housing as the existing cast aluminium alloy one would be very tricky to effect welding repairs. I also need a replacement alternator only adjusting arm bracket to return the set up to an alternator only one without the useless air con compressor and a new long bolt and the accompanying bushing, (3 in total), to mount the alternator directly to the base of the oil filter housing as per original non air con factory fitment.

The next problem is that there appears to be two different versions of the oil filter housing casting with different sized and shape oil supply holes, based on the two different gasket versions available:

https://www.midwest-bayless.com/p-26617-4135604-oil-filter-housing-gasket-dohc-fiat-124-spider-coupe-131-lancia-1968-78-new.aspx[/url]

https://www.midwest-bayless.com/p-25425-4337093-7625510-oil-filter-housing-gasket-dohc-20l-fiat-pininfarina-124-spider-131-brava-lancia-1978-on-new.aspx

The first link shows what is apparently the older version, (pre 1978), fitted to Beta engines up to 1800cc. The second link shows the later gasket version, (post 1978 for 2 litre engined Betas allegedly), based on what Midwest-Bayless (USA) claim on their website. I have not been able to get the forum insert pictures function to work, hence the links only.

I assume the oil filter housing fitted to my 1979 2 litre Beta Coupe is the latter version although interestingly my 2 Litre Fiat/Lancia engine gasket set includes both oil filter gasket types, so who knows which housing type is actually on the car without taking it off to check at the mating face. I have held off doing that for now as I only have one spare gasket to use at the moment and want to be sure a replacement is available.

What I take to be the earlier oil filter housing version is available as NOS from ebay in Italy. The Italian ebay parts seller confirmed the following: "salve, il catalogo ci dice che monta la beta 1a serie + lancia beta 2a serie senza aria condizionata senza idroguida." His translation: "Hi, the catalog tells us that it features the 1st series beta + 2nd series beta launcher without air conditioning without power steering".

So I think I need the later Series 2 FL oil filter housing with a mating face profile to fit the second gasket of the two versions as depicted in the Midwest-Bayless links cited above, with a larger more rectangular oil supply hole and not the Italian ebay listed one.

Can anyone confirm this correct required oil filter housing version? Does anyone know from where I can source the correct required oil filter housing? I have put the word out to a couple of local, (Australia), Lancia parts supplies who have access to some old Australian dealer stock but one has not replied yet and the other will not return home till next Tuesday, (he is an engineer engaged in remote mining work and runs a Fiat/Lancia parts business as a sideline/hobby), although he thought he might have something suitable. There is a third local option I could try but I thought I would sound out forum members to confirm I am on the right track.

I will also need a replacement alternator bracket that secures the top of the alternator to an L shaped support bracket attached to the engine. Plus a new mounting bolt and pair of bushes to secure the bottom of the alternator to the oil filter housing support ledge. The original bolt was cut and extended in length to accommodate the bigger joint compressor/alternator bracket and is now unusable, not to mention badly worn.

Looking at this thread, there is an exploded diagram of what appears to be the required alternator mounting parts in the last post (#51):

http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3377.0

Required part numbers appear to be as follows:

#8235598(or 9?)0  - alternator bracket
#15(or 6?)045721  - long pivot bolt to secure lower alternator lugs to oil filter housing support (probably available as a generic substitute)
#82345725 - two of these lower alternator lug locating bushes are required
#8110_588 (fifth digit is illegible in exploded diagram) bush to secure lower rear alternator lug to filter housing

Again I hope to be able to source these bits locally but any leads or offers of assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Andrew
 
« Last Edit: April 15, 2024, 05:45:54 PM by Gromit » Logged

Family Italian car fleet: 1979 Beta Coupe 2000, Fiat 124 Spyder (and a 2007 Fiat Punto!)
Nigel
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« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2024, 06:06:44 PM »

Hi Andrew,

I think that either 'block to housing' gasket would suffice. The difference
is negligible. Once you have that replacement housing fitted:...

Alternator bracketry is a fluid experience. Whatever washers and spacers you use,
all that's required is to mount it securely, and in line with the crank and water pump pulleys
giving enough 'throw' to achieve good belt adjustability.

Your existing 'top' mounting bracket could be modified to suit the new alt position, if necessary.

As for belt size, take a piece of rope around 8mm thick, and cut to size, butting the ends. Your ultra-friendly local
parts store will have a belt or 2 near that size, and you'll be able to return the unused one.

I hope my thoughts, which are from personal experience with my HPE, are useful!

Cheers
Nigel
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1984 2.0 Carb HPE [ex Aus] Grigio Finanza.
2007 Mazda 6 2.3 [current daily, highly recommended]
The past:
1980 2.0 HPE White in South Africa [hope it survives!]
1976 1.6 Coupe Lancia Blu [PFG 76R] [probably deceased]
oh,and an Uno Turbo 1997 also in SA [stolen,never recovered]
peteracs
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Peter Stokes


« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2024, 09:56:03 PM »

Hi

Is your housing for a vertical mounted filter or a horizontal mounted?

As to loading photos, the usual problem is that modern cameras create large images and you need to scale them down, ideally use image sizes of around 100-200k bytes which gives a decent image without being over large. Each post on yhe forum is limited to 1500k bytes per post over up to 8 images.

I do have some spare housings here in the U.K., should you not find any locally

Peter
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Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Beta HPE S2 pre F/L 1600
Gromit
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1979 Coupe 2000


« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2024, 10:52:35 PM »

Nigel/Peter,

Many thanks for responding so promptly.

The oil filter housing is for a vertical mounted oil filter, (underneath the housing), as per the #8.8 photo in Chapter 1 on p33 of the Haynes Beta manual.

There is a photo of the engine block mating surface of what I take to be the earlier casting version of the oil filter housing in this listing:

https://www.ebay.it/itm/370741420160

Re Nigel`s comments concerning the two oil filter housing gasket types, the two different gaskets have almost the same external and internal dimensions including around the mounting bolt holes, but what I assume to be the filtered oil return hole is nearly double the size in the later version gasket and a different more rectangular shape, without the U shaped cut out next to the upper left mounting bolt. They are quite different in this critical area. The point is that I think I need the later type of oil filter housing casting to match what I assume is the later larger and wider oil return hole at both the oil filter housing mating surface and corresponding engine block mating surface of post 1978 2 litre Beta engines.

I note that Mark Wastnidge also specifies two different oil filter housing gaskets on his Lancia Beta parts website, characterising them as "small hole" and "long hole" versions to suit the two different housing casting versions:

[/url]https://353652584127257704.weebly.com/store/p257/Oil_Filter_Housing_Gasket..html[/url]

Peter do you have any housings that match the mating surface profile of the later (long hole) gasket type? As per this listing:

https://www.midwest-bayless.com/p-25425-4337093-7625510-oil-filter-housing-gasket-dohc-20l-fiat-pininfarina-124-spider-131-brava-lancia-1978-on-new.aspx

Another American Italian car parts seller lists the same two gaskets and says: "Oil Housing to DOHC Block GASKET. Verify footprint against existing housing."

Again, they say that this long hole gasket "Fits: Fiat 124 Spider, Spider 2000 and Pininfarina 1979-1985".

https://www.vickauto.com/parts/oil-filter-housing-gasket-fiat-1242000-1979-85-sku-40-2379/

Re alternator brackets,  I really just want the original factory supplied alternator bracket arm with the long adjustment slot as the original bracket arm was cut short and a different piece welded on to accept the new alternator location further away from the engine above the air compressor. I was also hoping to reinstate the lower alternator original long bolt and bushing pivot attachment arrangement to the oil filter housing. The original bottom mounting bolt and bushing was again cut and rewelded to accomodate the bigger combined compressor and alternator bottom mounting bracket. It is now useless and can`t be reused, not to mention badly worn. So I need a new bolt and bushing, preferably factory original bushing for ease of fitment. Happy to play around with other bolts/spacers/washers to get the belt alignment right but I need the right bracket to start with. Custom fabricating brackets is far too expensive labour wise unless you do it yourself.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2024, 06:33:16 AM by Gromit » Logged

Family Italian car fleet: 1979 Beta Coupe 2000, Fiat 124 Spyder (and a 2007 Fiat Punto!)
Gromit
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Australia Australia

Posts: 77


1979 Coupe 2000


« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2024, 06:33:35 AM »

I have spoken to Graham O`Connor (Lambda Motors, Australia) today who is 85 years young by the way and still in the Lancia and other Italian car parts business. Lambda Motors were the Australian importers and main distributors of Lancia cars in Australia for many years during their halcyon days. Graham reckons he has sold a heap of these oil filter housings over the years because of damage caused by heavy air con compressors fitted to heavy custom made brackets by local Australian Fiat Lancia dealers. So many that he can`t find one for me!

He reckons that all Lancia Beta oil filter housing versions fit any Beta engine block regardless with the proviso that they need to be correctly matched to one of the two gasket versions. Which was surprising news to me.

That said Felix Furtak, the South African Lancia parts guy reckons there is a different Lancia part number quoted for the two litre beta engine WITHOUT power steering (his emphasis) to the oil filter housing for sale on Italian ebay.

I am waiting on advice from another local Fiat/Lancia parts specialist re oil filter housing required type and availability. Definitely Beta`eeeeeeeeeeed out at the moment!
« Last Edit: April 17, 2024, 06:36:55 AM by Gromit » Logged

Family Italian car fleet: 1979 Beta Coupe 2000, Fiat 124 Spyder (and a 2007 Fiat Punto!)
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