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Author Topic: S3 Beta coupe outer sway bar bush renewal  (Read 1294 times)
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JASPER_40
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« on: February 14, 2024, 03:07:49 AM »

Hi Everyone....need some help and advice about the best way to renew the outer rear sway bar bushes (attaches sway bar to Hub assembly).

It seemed a simple enough job to me until I realised I needed to also remove the read brake disc dust cover so that I could get access to withdraw the sway bar bush. The only way to remove this cover was to also remove the hub and bearing which seemingly compromises the bearing requiring it to also to be replaced.

This all seemed to be a bit too involved to be the correct way to do this and so I am hoping someone has done this and can tell me the hack that will stop me wasting time and money unnecessarily.

When I tackle the bush on the other side, I have though about bending the dust cover to gain sufficient access but before I do any more damage than I have already, I thought I would reach out to you.

Any thoughts ?


Also, In the process of using a 3 leg puller to remove the hub !!, I have managed to break the bearing itself leaving part of it still pressed onto the spindle. Dont know how I am going to get this off.
Best way to get this bearing remanat off the stub axle ?

Again, started off as a simple job and turned into a bit of a nightmare.


Cheers

Steve


* stub axle.jpg (184.27 KB, 1200x1600 - viewed 198 times.)
« Last Edit: February 14, 2024, 06:20:24 AM by JASPER_40 » Logged
SanRemo78
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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2024, 10:01:52 AM »

I don't recall having to bend the brake backplate when removing the hubs from the car, it was just a matter of removing the brakes, undoing the strut bolts and the ARB nut and bolt. It all came apart with a little soaking in penetrating fluid. That was a year ago mind and i may have forgotten a little swearing and some violence...

To remove the inner bearing race that (nearly) always stays in situ you can cut a slot into the race, parallel to the line of the axle, with a grinder, and then cut down to meet the first cut being careful not to compromise the axle. The hear from this might release it but if not then you have a flat surface against which to use a cold chisel and a lump hammer.

If that method doesn't appeal then consider buying one of these tools.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394573107084?itmmeta=01HPKD7DANQARVB5K2BHT71AH8&hash=item5bde63cf8c:g:5-YAAOSwemZlG8f6&itmprp=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwHABJ3sa6Pi5ZfgOhtmZKD9MqIrrn%2BEyxEWfQni0kbSf%2BFg2shUPnti9a437pU6WwNjHNTucTfQFIBDGgH05zrqxs4DD%2BtgD%2BkkKghr%2FKBfLW%2FSuDNdZKv6LKfgHEV0AUIlNeHjjW%2FNDFdEwYLVbDBYpWUNqzAnoQN7f9Ik5POPr6nIQrmMQl65KDXGW3tw81YwxmBERDni11yKThlPWMgpZFjCLJaLRbX3QEW00mVkvCADu3s8KO5ONfd3UUQUjlA%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR7zVne20Yw

Guy
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JASPER_40
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« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2024, 12:35:39 PM »

Hi Guy...thanks for your reply...appreciated

Yes, you are absolutely correct that you dont need to bend the back plate to remove the whole hub assembly from the car but you do if you then want to press out or extract the sway bar bushing from the Hub assembly as the back plate doesnt give sufficient clearance to get all the bush extraction tools in place.

For me, It is a nonsence that the back plate cant be withdrawn without removing the actual hub from the stub axle...what am I missing I wonder ?

Good point about the extractor tool to remove the remaining race part of the bearing stuck on the stub axle...I have a mate who has this tool and will give it a go even though the channel that the ball bearings run in is only very slight. Probs still enough for the exraction collar to work.

Another thing that I understand is a bit of a trauma is the removal of the bearing retaining ring in the hub flange itself. In anticipation, I have ordered the removal tool from BB despite the postage costs to Australia as I just want the job done now with proper tools so that I dont damage anything else.

Has anyone here replaced the sway bar bushes and have any anecdotes to share.

Cheers,

Steve
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peteracs
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Peter Stokes


« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2024, 12:51:27 PM »

Hi

Removal of the bearing retaining ring is easy enough with a chisel and hammer normally. Yes this will normally mean replacing the retaining ring. If you use the tool to remove it, often it is VERY difficult, but using an impact can sometimes get them out in useable condition. Remember the front and rear retainers are different, but use the same tool to tighten them which is the main reason for getting the tool.

I stripped my rear suspension, so cannot comment on if possible to to do this, though I always find one or more of the dust cover bolts break when trying to remove them….. which gives even more work!

Peter
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SanRemo78
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« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2024, 01:52:37 PM »

My rear hub carriers are sat ready for re-assembly, I haven't got round to fitting the new bush which will be of the Polybush type when I get it from Mark (or find it in my stash of spares. It came out easily enough with a couple of sockets and a vice but I'll probably resort to a bearing press to get the new ones back in come the time.

The bearing retaining ring is a castellated nut as I'm sure you know by now. There are two lock tabs that will benefit from straightening. My removal methods in the past have been to soak with releasing fluid for a day or two and use the correct tool with a T bar on the bench or with the hub securely located in a vice with a long extension bar on the socket drive and the head of the wrench supported to prevent the tool twisting out of the hub. Today I'd just attach an impact wrench.

Back in the '80's I'd have resorted to drilling a pilot hole near the inner edge of the nut, enlarging it slightly until you reach the thread to release the tension in the nut and then hit it with a hammer & chisel.

Guy
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Alfa Romeo 159 T1 2.4 Q4 Sportwagon - Believed one of 4 in UK.
Fiat Panda 100HP and now!
A Lancia Beta Coupe 1981 2 Litre
JASPER_40
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« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2024, 01:53:11 AM »

Hi

Removal of the bearing retaining ring is easy enough with a chisel and hammer normally. Yes this will normally mean replacing the retaining ring. If you use the tool to remove it, often it is VERY difficult, but using an impact can sometimes get them out in useable condition. Remember the front and rear retainers are different, but use the same tool to tighten them which is the main reason for getting the tool.

I stripped my rear suspension, so cannot comment on if possible to to do this, though I always find one or more of the dust cover bolts break when trying to remove them….. which gives even more work!

Peter

Hi Peter,

I have started too many jobs recently and had to abandon them whilst waiting for a replacement for a part that I have damaged. On this occaision I have halted the job awaiting the retaining ring removal tool and also a new retaining ring....just in case. The major issue I have is sourcing parts from across the world and then the lead time for shipping. Despite the huge expense in parts and shipping, I am tending to now order everything I may possibly need for the job in one go. Maybe I will then sell on what I dont use.

I am under pressure to get a certificate of roadworthness from the Western Australia Governement before I can register this Beta here in WA (I imported it from South Australia). I have had the car for 2 months and have had enormous difficulty with parts in order to satisy the inspection (like a very stringent MOT). In all Australian states, a car is not required to be inspected annually and so this Beta has probably not been inspected for over 40 years and therefore reliant on the dilligence of the owners to keep it roadworthy.....mad I know ! and yes you can legally drive things in any condition here but if you get pulled over by the cops for something obviously not right then you are forced to have it inspected in order to be permitted to drive it again.

Anyway, As a consequence of importing it I now have to replace everything with rubber in it such as bushes and joints.

virtually app done now save this probably unnecessary job of replacing the rear wheel bearing.

I am going to attempt to extract the sway bar bush on the other site by using a slim drift to pull the bush out without having to bend the back plate too much ...will report back with photos.
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JASPER_40
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« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2024, 02:02:39 AM »

My rear hub carriers are sat ready for re-assembly, I haven't got round to fitting the new bush which will be of the Polybush type when I get it from Mark (or find it in my stash of spares. It came out easily enough with a couple of sockets and a vice but I'll probably resort to a bearing press to get the new ones back in come the time.

The bearing retaining ring is a castellated nut as I'm sure you know by now. There are two lock tabs that will benefit from straightening. My removal methods in the past have been to soak with releasing fluid for a day or two and use the correct tool with a T bar on the bench or with the hub securely located in a vice with a long extension bar on the socket drive and the head of the wrench supported to prevent the tool twisting out of the hub. Today I'd just attach an impact wrench.

Back in the '80's I'd have resorted to drilling a pilot hole near the inner edge of the nut, enlarging it slightly until you reach the thread to release the tension in the nut and then hit it with a hammer & chisel.

Guy

Hi Guy,

The impact wrench is a wonderful thing and I shall take your advice to use this on my first attempt.

I am also going to use PU bushes for the rear Sway bar.

You are in a better position as it sounds like you have removed the hub from the stub axle already which allows you to remove the back plate easily. This gives you free access to remove and insert the sway bar bush.
My issue was not wanting to remove the hub, bearing and backing plate just so that I could replace the sway bar bush. As mentioned in previous response, I will get creative with a slim drift to see if I can pull the bush out with the backing plate in place.....todays job.

Cheers,

Steve


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SanRemo78
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« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2024, 09:13:23 AM »

Hi Steve, I didn't have an impact wrench until a recent job on a Fiat Panda 100HP necessitate the purchase of one. (Front strut replacement) and now I'm wondering why it took so long for me to spend that £80 on a Clarke CEW100 one!

I've been using the two sockets and a vice method to remove all my bushes successfully so far. But there are some that have defeated me and I'll have to resort to a proper press - those are the bushes in the rear adjustable transverse arms.

If you don't want to use the socket/vice method there are kits out there that work on the same principle or use a threaded rod, these might be usable in situ:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/404791066747?itmmeta=01HPNWX610QX23WXGTA8XRQ9AB&hash=item5e3f6d807b:g:MswAAOSwVzJkvkUV&itmprp=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4BRS3IcniHUkeljxYzyweN02rcbOvgpRyrFhgx9nz25ykTcHmrgE%2FM7UPT6PWagwDUK4Zky3b%2BexN9AXkJRHZ0I9bKLVsK2uJiBX3bE%2FivBW4Cjff3j8%2BU4Hue8M0ZKivqPmKnLQWWvJ3YlhlO%2BIoDakDhOpSzG%2Fqbm0IeHRpCO5l7bg%2BpQlVqgMyle8kmyp3RZ9S%2FsBToV3ynBd%2BXDMLVcXTTD2E4O29ojNCI1HwUGCsNJjm1SmcLRjoEwfj8TMPShDDBnmqaPj7A6qAg5%2FJBWq2b%2Ba8oh4yox%2BJXkngn%2BN%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9jg9Ly1Yw

Guy
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Hawk HF3000 - Square Arch Stratos Replica - owned since 1988.
Alfa Romeo 159 T1 2.4 Q4 Sportwagon - Believed one of 4 in UK.
Fiat Panda 100HP and now!
A Lancia Beta Coupe 1981 2 Litre
JASPER_40
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« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2024, 11:17:50 AM »

Hi Steve, I didn't have an impact wrench until a recent job on a Fiat Panda 100HP necessitate the purchase of one. (Front strut replacement) and now I'm wondering why it took so long for me to spend that £80 on a Clarke CEW100 one!

I've been using the two sockets and a vice method to remove all my bushes successfully so far. But there are some that have defeated me and I'll have to resort to a proper press - those are the bushes in the rear adjustable transverse arms.

If you don't want to use the socket/vice method there are kits out there that work on the same principle or use a threaded rod, these might be usable in situ:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/404791066747?itmmeta=01HPNWX610QX23WXGTA8XRQ9AB&hash=item5e3f6d807b:g:MswAAOSwVzJkvkUV&itmprp=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4BRS3IcniHUkeljxYzyweN02rcbOvgpRyrFhgx9nz25ykTcHmrgE%2FM7UPT6PWagwDUK4Zky3b%2BexN9AXkJRHZ0I9bKLVsK2uJiBX3bE%2FivBW4Cjff3j8%2BU4Hue8M0ZKivqPmKnLQWWvJ3YlhlO%2BIoDakDhOpSzG%2Fqbm0IeHRpCO5l7bg%2BpQlVqgMyle8kmyp3RZ9S%2FsBToV3ynBd%2BXDMLVcXTTD2E4O29ojNCI1HwUGCsNJjm1SmcLRjoEwfj8TMPShDDBnmqaPj7A6qAg5%2FJBWq2b%2Ba8oh4yox%2BJXkngn%2BN%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9jg9Ly1Yw

Guy

Hi Guy,

Yep, already got one of those kits when working on by first classic....very handy.

I have also just done the sway bar bush on the other side today and had to resort to bending the backplate. If you are only replacing the sway bar bush then I think you need to bend the backplate but if you are fully dismantling the hub assembly the obviously there is no need.

The back plate bent back perfectly afterwards with no deformation and I am now kicking myself for ruining the hub bearing on the other side in the process of replacing the sway bush.....very costly



* bush removal.jpg (152.52 KB, 1600x1200 - viewed 163 times.)
« Last Edit: February 15, 2024, 11:21:30 AM by JASPER_40 » Logged
JASPER_40
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« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2024, 05:39:22 AM »

Hi

Removal of the bearing retaining ring is easy enough with a chisel and hammer normally. Yes this will normally mean replacing the retaining ring. If you use the tool to remove it, often it is VERY difficult, but using an impact can sometimes get them out in useable condition. Remember the front and rear retainers are different, but use the same tool to tighten them which is the main reason for getting the tool.

I stripped my rear suspension, so cannot comment on if possible to to do this, though I always find one or more of the dust cover bolts break when trying to remove them….. which gives even more work!

Peter

I used a bearing "splitter" tool to remove the part of the race that was left stuck on the stub axle. I borrowed this tool from a mate but they are pretty cheap to buy for kit on Ebay / Amazon. It worked like a charm and start to finish took less than 5 mins.

now knowing what I do then it is a very common ocurrance for the bearing to seperate when tying to remove them....hence the "splitter" tool being so common and widely available. I also thing the chisel method would also have worked but I have become a bit nervous about brute force approaches as stuff gets damaged and is very costly and time consuming to rememdy.....better safe !

Anyway, Job done....just need to re-fit the new bearing when it arrives.

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peteracs
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Peter Stokes


« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2024, 10:25:38 AM »

Hi

The chisel job I referred to was on the bearing retaining ring, not the inner race, though as a final splitting of the race I did use a chisel after grinding as much as possible to make a channel in it without damaging the stub axle.

Glad you managed to sort it out

Perer
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JASPER_40
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« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2024, 05:23:57 AM »

Hi

Removal of the bearing retaining ring is easy enough with a chisel and hammer normally. Yes this will normally mean replacing the retaining ring. If you use the tool to remove it, often it is VERY difficult, but using an impact can sometimes get them out in useable condition. Remember the front and rear retainers are different, but use the same tool to tighten them which is the main reason for getting the tool.

I stripped my rear suspension, so cannot comment on if possible to to do this, though I always find one or more of the dust cover bolts break when trying to remove them….. which gives even more work!

Peter

Hi Peter, Just to conclude......

I managed to get hold of a bearing ring removal tool and used an impact wrench to see if I could shift the retaining ring without damaging it......well what do you know, it worked first time and the retaining ring is perfect.

Really great when notoriously troublesome jobs like this end up being a doddle with the right tools.

Cheers,

Steve



* WhatsApp Image 2024-02-28 at 12.00.14_c1a70aa9.jpg (368.99 KB, 1200x1600 - viewed 104 times.)
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WestonE
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« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2024, 12:47:50 PM »

Well done! I use an 18V Milwaukee tool which is immense in persuading tight rusty things to move. It was only once defeated by hub lock rings so rusted in place it broke the teeth off the lock ring tool even with heat applied to the hub. I had already removed the crimp and put cuts into the lock rings!

 
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