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Author Topic: Lancia Beta HPE 2.0 IE Track Car Blog  (Read 105880 times)
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Marcus Robinson


« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2009, 07:36:55 PM »

0-1 min20 secs, showing me on the parade laps of a rather wet Combe track Undecided
Spiky at Combe Cancer Charity day
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1989 - Lancia Delta 1300 LX - Sorn
1988 - BMW E30 325i - Track
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« Reply #41 on: December 03, 2009, 03:49:50 PM »

Some of the best pics. from last saturday...

I was keeping up through the corners but the Impreza has the pace down the straights Undecided, also me chasing down the 944...

This is why i'm after some negative camber on the front Shocked and this is with hard side-walled track tyres on...

Its all part of the day Cheesy...
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1989 - Lancia Delta 1300 LX - Sorn
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« Reply #42 on: December 21, 2009, 01:29:35 AM »

Been a little while since an update so here goes....
As part of the on-going development of my idea of the ultimate track car, it was due the addition of a cut-off switch and while i'm at it, want to fit the battery in the boot on the nearside. 1. Weight will be moved onto the rear where its needed 2. This will give room in the engine bay for the filter to be moved into direct cold air flow.
First, I did some shopping. Battery cable x 2, Cut-off switch, Battery box, and various terminals...

I got to work with fitting the battery box, drilling two holes through the floor then hammerite'in and spraying to prevent the "R" word, as well as this i welded in a bracket to mount a third hole, seems to have done the job, you can shake the rear of the car by the battery box Tongue

With that done I trimmed down the cut-off switch with a hacksaw which luckily fitted perfectly in between the electric window switches…

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1989 - Lancia Delta 1300 LX - Sorn
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« Reply #43 on: December 21, 2009, 01:38:56 AM »

While I was in a wiring mood, I replaced an unhealthy wire/connector and if you don’t know and don’t want to know what’s inside your fusebox look away now…  Shocked

Cut-off switch fitted, but battery is still in the engine bay at the moment as its fully working, but when wired up in the boot, there’s some bad connection or earth problem going on where voltage seems to be around 8volts and when I lean against the seat or get in the car 12volts arrive Undecided

Changing subjects, this is the block I’ll probably be using if I do a full engine build…

Came out of an IE HPE some years ago, and has hardly had any use since it was last built by as I believe their know now, red mist racing at Street, Somerset. As far as I know, it has a brand new oil pump and shells, as the chap I bought it from was in the process of rebuilding it while his HPE eventually ended up in a scrap yard; it has also been bored out and has 84.6mm pistons fitted.
As well as this, I got bored one day so started fiberglass’in…

No idea how the final panel will turn out, but I’m going to give it a go and make it up as I go along basically. I’ve used kitchen foil as a backing, and then once the whole wings done I’ll go over it with filler, and then trim it up if it requires due to me using the outside of the wing as a mould.
And to finish the post off, it looks like the blog will have had a 1000 views by Xmas, ok 900 of them might be me, but it seems people are keeping a track of what I’m upto, or are drawn by the pretty pictures. Cheesy Merry Xmas and Happy New Year to all.  Grin Grin Grin
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1988 - Lancia Delta HF Turbo - Sorn - http://www.lanciasport.com/forum/index.php?topic=2585.0
1989 - Lancia Delta 1300 LX - Sorn
1988 - BMW E30 325i - Track
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« Reply #44 on: December 28, 2009, 09:45:02 PM »

Hi Marcus,

Hope you had a good Christmas and a happy new year to you and your family.

Could you tell me what it is that you are doing with the fibreglass work on the wing.

Cheers
Pete
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« Reply #45 on: December 29, 2009, 01:19:17 AM »

Didn't have a bad christmas thanks, i've taken some time off from working on the car that has only given me time to find some more projects and work to do in the new year Cheesy
With regards to the wing, I contacted a few local companies for a quote to produce some fibreglass wings, but was unsuccsessful. I literally went to Half*rds and bought a fiberglass kit and got to work leisurely when it was tipping down with rain one day. I've done a little bit more on it since the pic. you see, but overall thats taken about 5 hours in 4 different stages. The main intention is for a performance point of view, once i've made the wing i'll weigh it against the original to see what weight loss there is. Of course you won't have a issue with the "R" word ever again either. Once this wings done, i'll do the other side, plans after that is to then do the front valance and if I turn into a masterful fiberglasser have a go at doing the bonnet, which will just be a single skin with stregthening bars fibreglassed in underneath. If i'm pleased with the final result, I might make some more/spare, the cost to manufacture isn't that bad but it's terribly time consuming.
Hope you had a good xmas and have a great new year. Cool
Marcus.
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1982 - Lancia Beta HPE 2000ie - Track - http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=472.0
1988 - Lancia Delta HF Turbo - Sorn - http://www.lanciasport.com/forum/index.php?topic=2585.0
1989 - Lancia Delta 1300 LX - Sorn
1988 - BMW E30 325i - Track
2005 - Subaru Forester XT STI - Road
rossocorsa
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« Reply #46 on: December 29, 2009, 09:15:30 AM »

due to the heavy rusting on early coupé wings fibre glass ones were widely available at the time if you wait a while or fish around a bit I'm sure you'll turn up a pair

http://www.honeybournemouldings.co.uk/frontwings.htm
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« Reply #47 on: December 29, 2009, 10:20:38 AM »

TA V much.

I have a pair on my Coupe 1600 and I could take one off and weigh it if you like. I could even compare it to a steel one I have spare to save you removing yours.

Guy Moerenhout Racing do polyester/fibre glass doors, bonnet and boot lid. http://www.abarth-gmr.be/new/parts.php?dzial=LANCIA%20BETA%20COUPE%20/%20MONTE%20CARLO - click the Parts tab. They're a bit pricey, especially with the exchange rate being so bad at the moment, but the website might give you some ideas about what can be achieved.

Cheers
Pete
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« Reply #48 on: December 29, 2009, 07:35:32 PM »

If you could do a weigh comparison on the wings that would be useful to know Smiley I'll have a search around for what I can find. As I say, it was just a project I started due to the bad weather last month, something which will probably go on the back burners, now i've got some more projects/idea's Cheesy
Latest update, i've got a new oil sump gasket for the other engine (think i've got all the gaskets I need now), a pair of adjustable transverse arms are in the post to me, so the rear end is now going to be fully adjustable camber and toe wise, and the latest project/headache, is bike throttle bodies which i've just bought on the cheap so will have to see if there going to be compatible, as well as a custom manifold that will be needed for them and the new engine management system that will be needed to run them Undecided
And all this on top of some more general work, battery relocation into boot, the front negative camber suspension set-up, and building a shed for me to do most of the work in  Cheesy I'll get some piccys done once i've gathered all the parts etc...
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1988 - Lancia Delta HF Turbo - Sorn - http://www.lanciasport.com/forum/index.php?topic=2585.0
1989 - Lancia Delta 1300 LX - Sorn
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« Reply #49 on: January 06, 2010, 06:49:20 PM »

Battery relocation / Cut-off Switch is finally done, a lot of head scratching was done by 3, 4, more people, but I finally solved the problem, when thinking of a mini of all things. Due to me removing the earth cable from the gearbox, to into the rear of the car now mounted to the chassis, the earthing required from the engine/gearbox to chassis wasn't good enough causing Cheesy electrical problems Cheesy, i've run a wire from the gearbox to a nice shiny bit of the chassis and job done Grin
Here it is in the back, looking quite smart if I say so myself...

Just needs cable tieing and clips running along the inside of the car to make it look tidy. As a result, there's a battery sized amount of room in the engine bay to use for whatever in the future; oil cooler perhaps. The wiring due to the change is somewhat hectic, but currently works well and will-do for a short period. (I have plans). 1 shiny penny to whoever noticed I put the brake reservoir on the wrong way round Cheesy (I only just noticed, makes no difference) The airflow meter is now hanging in mid air which isn't ideal, but seems to be held well enough by the hoses, and I won't need to make a bracket for it if I won't be using it, read on...

The latest thing i've got my head into, is fitting throttle bodies from a bike to the car, this however is quite a project in itself. As well as this i'd like to run wasted-spark ignition, and have been told to expect around 150bhp using the standard engine if everything went to plan, something in the region of 180bhp+ on that engine I should be building sometime this year,  Smiley.
I've got most of it planned in my head, and parts soon to be flooding in, whether I do anything with them will be a different story. Throttle bodies have arrived, from a Suzuki GSXR 750 08/09 bike, but have twin injectors and twin butterflys, whether this will be in my favour or not I plan to find out Tongue. To connect these to the engine, i'll be attempting to make a custom intake manifold from steel, with some rigid hose connecting both of them together. I'm going to go with megasquirt for the engine management system, reasonably priced and looks quite user friendly. Wasted-spark ignition will be taken from a Ford  Lips Sealed with a crank sensor fitted to a modified crank pulley with a trigger wheel mounted to it, i've got a MAP sensor coming from a Renault something :'( but the ECU has one built in anyway Smiley and an adjustable fuel pressure regulator for a celica.
The plan for the wiring, is to make a completely new loom for everything so if it doesn't all work out I can just bung all the original parts back on connect them upto the original loom and away we go. Before I waffle anymore, this is the only work i've done regarding all this...

Template of the manifold made out of paper, for me to make from 6mm steel. I could have just used a gasket and made it slightly bigger, but couldn't be bothered to go in the garage and find one. I'll do a mass pic. session once everything arrives.
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1988 - Lancia Delta HF Turbo - Sorn - http://www.lanciasport.com/forum/index.php?topic=2585.0
1989 - Lancia Delta 1300 LX - Sorn
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« Reply #50 on: January 12, 2010, 09:26:56 PM »

Pics. as promised...
This is the bike throttle bodies, off a GSXR 750. They have rather big bore's and a twin butterfly / twin injectors configuration so whether i'll use these is a maybe atm.  Undecided

Sump gasket

Adjustable fuel regulator, very bling Cheesy

MAP sensor of a Renault but this is optional as there's already one on the ECU

Choice of coils and leads off a Ford

Megasquirt ECU

Started roughly cutting the intake manifold out of 6mm steel, its not that cold outside when your only using a hacksaw Smiley rest of it or at least some of it I hope to get done tomorrow.

Most of this work is going to have a reasonable set back, as i've suddenly had some inspiration to work on the project that should have been done before I even bought the beta Shocked
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1988 - Lancia Delta HF Turbo - Sorn - http://www.lanciasport.com/forum/index.php?topic=2585.0
1989 - Lancia Delta 1300 LX - Sorn
1988 - BMW E30 325i - Track
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« Reply #51 on: January 15, 2010, 09:41:01 PM »

With work coming to a stand still on the delta turbo, (waiting to get some parts), attention back onto the beta for a few hours. Went down to the local tyre place for 3 tyres for the delta turbo in the back, bloke said "are they in the Alfa" , well at least he got the right country. Next stop was M-tech, booked in on wednesday (20/1/10) for it to be rolling roaded Grin Have no idea what to expect power wise, so anything north of 100bhp and still in one piece will do for me lol Only modifications are cone k and n filter and four branch ansa exhaust manifold, we will see... as usual, pics, video and print out i'll post up, however good or bad the outcome. I did notice a fuel leak coming from the 4th injector when I got back home, so that'll need attention asap.
With the battery in the boot, I still had to tidy the two main wires running through the car, so some clips sprayed the same colour as the floor and self tappers and its looking like this now...

Still looking hectic but more wiring and the cut-off switch wires out of the way from the gear linkage and passenger footwell.

This week I was planning on just having the majority of metal cut for the intake manifold base, so I could get on with making it, but it now looks more likely a local metal work place will be cutting it out as long as there cheap enough. I've got to go in monday morning to see what they've come up with so far, so i've made a more accurate drawing for them to have a look at.

Then it's onto welding some tubes onto it at the right angle.
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1989 - Lancia Delta 1300 LX - Sorn
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« Reply #52 on: January 18, 2010, 10:01:52 PM »

Took the template in for them to have a look at, said it should be ready by wednesday, cost about a tenner, bargain Smiley.
Got to work on the fuel leak, fuel rail and injectors out...

This was the problem...

Bit of a mystery to how and why, as the only thing near it is the throttle cable that runs on the other side of the pipe, I can only put it down to age, or some wildlife that got peckish Cheesy.
Managed to get the old pipe off eventually with some crimps and a mini grinder, replaced with a new piece of pipe and jubilee clips.

Everything back together...

Wiring loom for the megasquirt came today, really pleased with it, all colour coded with where each wire goes printed on it, makes life a lot easier when I get around to wiring everything up...

Next update will be wednesday night, hopefully with some interesting figures, really looking forward to finding out what it actually produces power and torque wise, if it can withstand my abusement i'm sure it'll cope with some rollers.
Figures to aim for, from 28 years ago:-
122 BHP
175NM of Torque
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« Reply #53 on: January 19, 2010, 10:45:46 AM »

Interesting stuff! Did you think about using bike carbs at any point and completely doing away with the fi system?

One thing about the tb's and the megasquirt though,it would be relatively simple to add a turbo at some point!!.....A nice low useable 6psi application perhaps Grin
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« Reply #54 on: January 20, 2010, 04:20:23 PM »

Interesting stuff! Did you think about using bike carbs at any point and completely doing away with the fi system?

One thing about the tb's and the megasquirt though,it would be relatively simple to add a turbo at some point!!.....A nice low useable 6psi application perhaps Grin
I'll pretent i didn't read that suggestion Tongue yeh it would be good to get a turbo fitted sometime in the future even if it would have to be quite a small one, but for now and the next two years, is this throttle body conversion (...on the cheap Wink) and then building one hell of an engine to compliment them, cheaply of course. I did think about bike carbs, apart from setting them up all equally they seemed a bit too easy to do for me, I just wanted to do something a bit more challenging and be able to control the fueling; also what it says on the rear will still be true, its fuel injected Wink
Well everythings gone wrong today basically, good news is only one thing with the car!  Grin
Started the car up in the drive, warming it up / demisting, the usual; and looks like my drivers side window switch has packed in Undecided no movement from the window and the switch only clicks to work in one direction so if anyone's got a spare going handy and you don't want much for it, give me a PM or email. Also the whole front water jet piece as the plastic ball for adjusting direction of spray just decided to fly out everytime you put the washers on. Sad
Driving to M-tech for the rolling road, a new VW polo reversing out at speed from the dealership decides not to look and nearly takes the nearside out, lucky i was in 2nd and have a heavy right foot.
I get to there place to find no banner out and no-one around, ask there neighbours and they've moved to a new site on the business estate, sooo I go over there to find there newer and bigger premises of which there just moving everything into, so rolling road hasn't happened yet as they havn't got anything setup; to be fare to them they didn't have a contact number for me. Told me to ring them up in the morning and there hope to get it done tomorrow night. Lips Sealed
And to top it all off, went to collect my intake manifold base to find he hasn't done it yet, been too busy and one of the machines broke down so i've got to go in friday before 1pm and collect it now.
Rant over, I cleaned the car today not that you'd notice after 6 miles of wiltshires finest pot holes. Grin
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1989 - Lancia Delta 1300 LX - Sorn
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« Reply #55 on: January 21, 2010, 09:32:32 PM »

Well got it on the rollers in the end Cool
Not a brilliant start as on the way there it was coughing and spluttering everytime between 2-3k rpm not sure to why other than its running too rich, and still doing it now Sad
Pic of it parked outside there old place...

They have since moved into there bigger premises...

Exhaust probe and strapped down...

Well it all went to plan, it did indeed achieve over 100bhp at the flywheel and most importantly is still in one piece Smiley
Figures taken from carfolio.com for this car...
122bhp @ 5500rpm
129ftlb @ 2800rpm
28 years on, using the original set up and with a head that i didn't check the shims before I fitted it, it produced *drum roll*...
108bhp @ 5400rpm
127ftlb @ 2500rpm
 Grin Rather pleased with the figures considering age as well as somethings not working properly between 2-3k rpm, still pulling like a train Wink Bloke that did it commented on how massive the ECU was and asked whether it was a bosch system. I told him what it was, and he was really impressed with the fuel ratio under acceleration saying that most older systems are awful and give you figures all over the place. Here's my engine speed vs air/fuel ratio as well as flywheel power...

Nice steady 12.3:1 from 4000rpm to 6400rpm.
Power and Torque figures vs Engine speed...


Some video's, enjoy...
Lancia Beta HPE 2.0 IE Standard Engine Rolling Road Part 1
Lancia Beta HPE 2.0 IE Standard Engine Rolling Road Part 2
Lancia Beta HPE 2.0 IE Standard Engine Rolling Road Part 3
Lancia Beta HPE 2.0 IE Standard Engine Rolling Road Part 4
Least I know now I can short shift and be bang on max power and with good torque, than the usual red line and change Cheesy M-tech have good experience of megasquirt so once i've got all the bike bodies and manifold set up as well as the loom and all the rest required i'll probably take it to them to improve on the base map.
Should be picking up the manifold base tomorrow so i'll get a pic of that on here, I believe its going to be water-jet cut so no distortion to the material and sharp lines, just hope he's got his measurements right!
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1989 - Lancia Delta 1300 LX - Sorn
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« Reply #56 on: January 21, 2010, 10:22:54 PM »

Interesting that the torque is bang on the money but the top end isn't quite where it should be. That suggests that the engine is fundamentaly healthy but something is holding it back. Did they have a play with the timing or anything else ?
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« Reply #57 on: January 21, 2010, 10:37:11 PM »

Quote
Did they have a play with the timing or anything else ?
No, was only a strap down and run while measuring the air/fuel mixture, all I can say about the timing was I did it by ear when I fitted the head and then got my local garage to check it, and told me i'd got it bang on. (I did watch him check it)
Engine certainly feels like its pulling like new as the figures confirmed. Managed wheel spin in second on the way there! But somethings not right, whether its timing or fueling, last time out on track it didn't feel like its usual self and the top end seems to have gone walkies, changing into 5th was almost like hitting a brick wall Undecided
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1989 - Lancia Delta 1300 LX - Sorn
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« Reply #58 on: January 21, 2010, 10:41:05 PM »

Interesting stuff....there's a distinct drop to what looks to be a potentially good curve with both power and torque at 2500 rpm....bang on. But the mixture doesn't start getting rich until 3k. I wonder if like Stuart says,the timing,either cam or ign,isn't what it should be?
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rossocorsa
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« Reply #59 on: January 22, 2010, 12:31:24 AM »

I think it would be interesting to see the difference with the standard induction system back in place, results not at all bad though considering that measurement will not be directly comparable anyway
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