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Author Topic: Lancia Beta HPE 2.0 IE Track Car Blog  (Read 105863 times)
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lanciamad
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Marcus Robinson


« Reply #160 on: November 25, 2014, 07:24:28 PM »

The heat wrap doesn't prevent corrosion. The paint will to a certain extent
Exactly that Stuart, the paint is purely to protect the exhaust a little from the elements and dreaded rust, I also personally think it looks nicer although it's pretty much hidden in the engine bay anyway.
The main reason for wrapping it as well, is not particularly for the benefits if any for performance but to try and contain the heat the manifold is producing, as I don't particularly want to change the steering rack gaiters every year.
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1982 - Lancia Beta HPE 2000ie - Track - http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=472.0
1988 - Lancia Delta HF Turbo - Sorn - http://www.lanciasport.com/forum/index.php?topic=2585.0
1989 - Lancia Delta 1300 LX - Sorn
1988 - BMW E30 325i - Track
2005 - Subaru Forester XT STI - Road
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« Reply #161 on: November 25, 2014, 07:48:10 PM »

Have you considered fitting louvres into the bonnet to drag some of the heat out from under there? I fitted four to the saab 99 turbo I had at strategic positions in the bonnet to remove heat build up and drag cool air in too. Cheap fix if you are tuning the motor. I think the worry of fire on the wrapping when it gets oil soaked is too big a downside?
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lukasdeopalenica
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« Reply #162 on: November 26, 2014, 09:22:38 AM »

I also wrapped the exhaust manifold in my car and can confirm it does work very well. It certainly lowered the temperature under the bonnet and should allow the gaiters work longer Wink
However I am afraid if this not impact the lifetime of the genuine manifold itself due to increased temperature of the cast iron made element.
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« Reply #163 on: November 26, 2014, 09:29:39 AM »

hope this pic links?


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peteracs
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« Reply #164 on: November 26, 2014, 10:14:07 AM »

The problem as I see it on the Beta is that the hot exhaust is at the very back of the engine bay, and with the engine canted over towards the back, makes getting a decent vent of hot air out the bonnet much more difficult, though when you are not moving, would be useful I would guess?

Peter
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« Reply #165 on: November 26, 2014, 10:29:58 AM »

i also used four inch ducting to feed cool air into the engine bay under a ram effect from a duct in the front spoiler. the vents kept the motor cool when in traffic as you could see the heat haze leaving the car and the two at the front of the bonnet fed cool air in when at speed . combined with the front air scoop and piping it worked really well. standard rad set up was fine. its all a question of effort and cost i guess? easy enough to fit an extractor fan set up in the engine bay to suck or blow the air out too but hot air rises makes louvres the obvious mk 1 unbreakable solution.
never been a fan of heat wrap.
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« Reply #166 on: November 26, 2014, 01:25:35 PM »

It tends to be radiant heat that's the problem with tubular manifolds in the Beta.

The primary and secondary pipes run very clode to the rack, fuel lines, brake lines and speedo cable.

Wrap isn't ideal but it's the best way of safegaurding them.

Even with wrap I had underseal melting and drippin off the underside of mine when I first put the manifold on.
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lanciaski
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« Reply #167 on: November 26, 2014, 03:28:15 PM »

thats practically a design fault then?
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« Reply #168 on: November 27, 2014, 09:08:41 AM »

hope this pic links?


a nice black 900 on the left  Cool
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Lancia Beta HPE 2000i.e. '82 rosso corsa
SAAB 900i 16V Aero, '93 solid black
Subaru Outback 3.0R
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« Reply #169 on: November 27, 2014, 09:11:59 AM »

thats practically a design fault then?
I think so. E.g. poor shielding and location
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Lancia Beta HPE 2000i.e. '82 rosso corsa
SAAB 900i 16V Aero, '93 solid black
Subaru Outback 3.0R
Honda CB125 K6 '76 electric blue
Specialized Epic & Stumpjumper
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« Reply #170 on: November 27, 2014, 10:10:20 AM »

sold all three and bought a porsche 911


this one

traded in six months ago a convertible 911.......had 200 cars plus in my time-32 years driving- and I'm showing no sign of slowing down. the HPE and the saab c900 have many similarities in many ways. both practical hatches with a sporty bite. its why I'm currently looking for a vx HPE in good nick to add to the fleet.
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lanciamad
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Marcus Robinson


« Reply #171 on: December 08, 2014, 12:10:11 AM »

Really tidy work on the grooves in the bonnet of the white saab, doesn't look out of place at all. Under bonnet temperatures have not really been an issue for me, the wrap is mostly for protecting the rubber gaiters for the rack that are rather close when the manifold is in place.
Having given it a good clean over it got a couple of generous coatings of heat resistant paint...

Freshly wrapped with heat wrap...

Then fitment was a joy as ever, having already put it on once and taken off again you would have thought it would be easy, but was still as awkward as ever to get on, just about managed to get it on with the anti roll bar disconnected both sides and the car lifted up as far up as I could, but eventually it went on...

Been making a bit of progress with the throttle boddies project recently, and started by removing all of the original bosch injection system and intake manifold...

Couldn't help but mock up the replacement manifold and see what issues are yet to come...

Firstly trying to get it all in from engine to trumpet, i've managed to move the radiator forward a couple of inches, and have options to either fit the fans on the front of the radiator or cut the hoses down a few inches to give more clearance from the fans and allow enough room for an air box to be fitted...

What I thought was going to be a potential problem, turned out to be an easy fix. The dipstick tubing was fouling on the new setup but with a slight bending it now clears and the dipstick still pushes down smoothly...

Having a quick look at throttle cabling, the original might be able to be used with some slight modification to the fixing of the cable...

With the suzuki boddies already fitted with a TPS, I was keen to make use of it rather than having to make one fit the linkage and have to make a bracket for it, so have managed to cut down a three pin connector to fit the pins...

With the new setup, it requires a crank sensor and trigger wheel so with this the crank pulley had to be removed, and is being replacing with an alloy one with trigger wheel fitted to the back of it...

Old and new...

Crank pulley, sensor and bracket now in place, just the small matter of the alternator belt fouling on the bracket and sensor at the moment, see... http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2756.msg18139#msg18139 hopefully once this reasonably major issue is resolved, things should come along nicely Smiley
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1982 - Lancia Beta HPE 2000ie - Track - http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=472.0
1988 - Lancia Delta HF Turbo - Sorn - http://www.lanciasport.com/forum/index.php?topic=2585.0
1989 - Lancia Delta 1300 LX - Sorn
1988 - BMW E30 325i - Track
2005 - Subaru Forester XT STI - Road
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« Reply #172 on: December 08, 2014, 01:02:06 AM »

Looking good chap - just be very careful about the relative positions of the crank position sensor and the missing tooth on the triggerwheel.  I had made the assumption that it was supplied correctly placed, and then wondered why I had problems getting her to run.  I had to have the wheel repositioned.

Cheers

Darren
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« Reply #173 on: December 08, 2014, 09:07:27 AM »

sold all three and bought a porsche 911
nice crocks Smiley
911 is also mine cup of tea, and actually has some design similarities to 900s
good taste and great collection  Cool
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Lancia Beta HPE 2000i.e. '82 rosso corsa
SAAB 900i 16V Aero, '93 solid black
Subaru Outback 3.0R
Honda CB125 K6 '76 electric blue
Specialized Epic & Stumpjumper
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« Reply #174 on: December 08, 2014, 09:19:39 AM »


Firstly trying to get it all in from engine to trumpet, i've managed to move the radiator forward a couple of inches, and have options to either fit the fans on the front of the radiator or cut the hoses down a few inches to give more clearance from the fans and allow enough room for an air box to be fitted...


Looks impressive, but don't you think that in a such arrangement your engine will suck hot (and thin) air just from the radiator?
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Lancia Beta HPE 2000i.e. '82 rosso corsa
SAAB 900i 16V Aero, '93 solid black
Subaru Outback 3.0R
Honda CB125 K6 '76 electric blue
Specialized Epic & Stumpjumper
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« Reply #175 on: December 08, 2014, 02:04:08 PM »


Firstly trying to get it all in from engine to trumpet, i've managed to move the radiator forward a couple of inches, and have options to either fit the fans on the front of the radiator or cut the hoses down a few inches to give more clearance from the fans and allow enough room for an air box to be fitted...


Looks impressive, but don't you think that in a such arrangement your engine will suck hot (and thin) air just from the radiator?

My thought as well. Check out the rally Betas engine which ran twin twin chokes, they had angled inlets. They also increased the angle of the engine from the vertical, but would guess that is a non starter for you due to exhaust manifold.

Guess you could also run some form of plenum chamber as well, but it makes it complicated.

Peter


* Beta_rally_engine.jpg (25.15 KB, 565x365 - viewed 550 times.)
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« Reply #176 on: December 08, 2014, 03:00:10 PM »

An airbox is the simple solution. Custom rad (ie low and wide) is another albeit more expensive one.

On mine I had also thought about some ductwork  - but I'm concerned it might limit the airflow through the radiator.
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« Reply #177 on: December 08, 2014, 07:38:35 PM »

if you put the ducts low in the chin spoiler they will not effect airflow over the cooling rad?
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lanciamad
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Marcus Robinson


« Reply #178 on: December 09, 2014, 12:24:22 AM »

Looking good chap - just be very careful about the relative positions of the crank position sensor and the missing tooth on the triggerwheel.  I had made the assumption that it was supplied correctly placed, and then wondered why I had problems getting her to run.  I had to have the wheel repositioned.

Cheers

Darren

It's something I will have to re-check before I finalize everything and make sure everything is tight again, I think the EDIS works with the missing tooth being 90 degrees (9 teeth) in advance of the sensor Huh? Sensor pointing at the 9th tooth with the engine set at TDC.
Spent a bit of time on it today, and most importantly look to have just solved the issues with the alternator belt fouling on brackets etc... http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2756.msg18164;topicseen#msg18164
Inlet manifold, Fuel rail and injector wiring now on...

Pipe work that ran to and from the inlet manifold is no longer needed, so the smaller pipe from the back water rail now goes straight to the T piece for the heater matrix/head...

New wiring loom to go in, have thread it through the bulkhead into the engine bay so far, will look forward to wiring it all up as one of the last things to do...

Last thing I managed to get done was a bracket for the EDIS module and Coil which is connected to upper water rail using the mounting point originally for the auxillary air device...

Waiting on a package from the US, some odd bits and pieces and then next job will be making a bracket for the new fusebox and relays.
Quote
Looks impressive, but don't you think that in a such arrangement your engine will suck hot (and thin) air just from the radiator?
The plan is to make or buy an air box, which will let me fit the intake air temp sensor in and also allow a feed of cold air which will be ducted to an air filter with the nearside main beam removed or ducting from the front valance up towards the filter.
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1982 - Lancia Beta HPE 2000ie - Track - http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=472.0
1988 - Lancia Delta HF Turbo - Sorn - http://www.lanciasport.com/forum/index.php?topic=2585.0
1989 - Lancia Delta 1300 LX - Sorn
1988 - BMW E30 325i - Track
2005 - Subaru Forester XT STI - Road
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« Reply #179 on: December 10, 2014, 09:32:45 PM »

The plan is to make or buy an air box, which will let me fit the intake air temp sensor in and also allow a feed of cold air which will be ducted to an air filter with the nearside main beam removed or ducting from the front valance up towards the filter.

That's exactly what I did. It works well but the rolling road suggested it was slightly restrictive. This might be my design or it might just be inherent in having a box.
Hence why I'm thinking of ducting cold air from above the rad to sock type filters over the trumpets. It's not urgent as I've plenty of power but you can always have a bit more....
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