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Author Topic: WOSP starter motor  (Read 191 times)
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Alt.Clr
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« on: November 22, 2021, 11:15:59 AM »

I'm looking for an uprated and lighter starting motor for my Beta Coupè restoration. Searching around I found a good number of WOSP model but it is difficult to understand which is the right model for the Beta (also because WOSP site looks like is not online anymore).

Do you guys have any experience with this starteres? Do you know which is the correct one (serial number)?

Many thanks
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Nigel
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« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2021, 11:37:57 PM »

Hi,
I recently purchased and fitted a LMS061 from AE Supplies to my 2000 HPE.

It cost 241.26.

Hope this helps.
Nigel
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1984 2.0 Carb HPE [ex Aus] Silver..turning to Grey Finanza.
2007 Mazda 6 2.3 [current daily, highly recommended]
The past:
1980 2.0 HPE White in South Africa [hope it survives!]
1976 1.6 Coupe Lancia Blu [PFG 76R] [probably deceased]
oh,and an Uno Turbo 1997 also in SA [stolen,never recovered]
Alt.Clr
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« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2021, 10:55:28 AM »

Many thanks @Nigel, that's exactly the info I was looking for.

Was it a straight fit or some modification were needed?

« Last Edit: November 23, 2021, 11:50:07 AM by Alt.Clr » Logged
Nigel
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« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2021, 11:03:32 PM »

Alberto,
No mods needed at all. Bolts right in, very easy.
The one improvement that is very worth while is to fit
a relay. This takes the solenoid load off the ignition switch [which is not strong
at the best of times].

Regards,
Nigel
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1984 2.0 Carb HPE [ex Aus] Silver..turning to Grey Finanza.
2007 Mazda 6 2.3 [current daily, highly recommended]
The past:
1980 2.0 HPE White in South Africa [hope it survives!]
1976 1.6 Coupe Lancia Blu [PFG 76R] [probably deceased]
oh,and an Uno Turbo 1997 also in SA [stolen,never recovered]
JohnFol
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« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2021, 07:10:30 PM »

Last time I worked on the starter I had the battery tray out and the carb removed. I now have a WOSP waiting to be fitted. Can I get away with just removing grill and radiator and working from the front of the car?
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2021, 08:45:33 PM »

Alberto,
No mods needed at all. Bolts right in, very easy.
The one improvement that is very worth while is to fit
a relay. This takes the solenoid load off the ignition switch [which is not strong
at the best of times].

Regards,
Nigel

Pardon my ignorance Nigel, but what cables go to what terminal numbers on the relay?
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
Nigel
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« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2021, 10:17:11 PM »

Evening Gents

John, I am fortunate to have the later fitment where the rad is mounted quite far forward so
I could fit it without removing anything significant. I know it's a squeeze on the early cars,
probably, as you say, rad out, or maybe just the fan housing? I worked from only the top.

Stuart, using a 5 pin relay, pins 85 and 86 are the windings, so one of those to earth, and
the other is Red from Ignition[which would have gone to the starter solenoid].
Then 30 is common, so that needs a battery 12v.
And finally,87 [normally open] goes to the new WOSP solenoid.

I haven't actually fitted my relay yet, and I plan to use the spare factory relay/fuse box mounted
on the left side wheel arch as it already has relay space,12v and earth nearby. 


Hope this helps, Nigel
Logged

1984 2.0 Carb HPE [ex Aus] Silver..turning to Grey Finanza.
2007 Mazda 6 2.3 [current daily, highly recommended]
The past:
1980 2.0 HPE White in South Africa [hope it survives!]
1976 1.6 Coupe Lancia Blu [PFG 76R] [probably deceased]
oh,and an Uno Turbo 1997 also in SA [stolen,never recovered]
mangocrazy
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« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2021, 10:50:06 PM »

Stuart, using a 5 pin relay, pins 85 and 86 are the windings, so one of those to earth, and
the other is Red from Ignition[which would have gone to the starter solenoid].
Then 30 is common, so that needs a battery 12v.
And finally,87 [normally open] goes to the new WOSP solenoid.

I haven't actually fitted my relay yet, and I plan to use the spare factory relay/fuse box mounted
on the left side wheel arch as it already has relay space,12v and earth nearby. 

Hope this helps, Nigel

Hi Nigel,

Are you sure it's a 5 pin relay? You've only mentioned four pins (30, 85, 86, 87)

Graham
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
Nigel
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« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2021, 11:28:46 PM »

Graham,
 Pin 87a is the unused normally closed.

Nigel
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1984 2.0 Carb HPE [ex Aus] Silver..turning to Grey Finanza.
2007 Mazda 6 2.3 [current daily, highly recommended]
The past:
1980 2.0 HPE White in South Africa [hope it survives!]
1976 1.6 Coupe Lancia Blu [PFG 76R] [probably deceased]
oh,and an Uno Turbo 1997 also in SA [stolen,never recovered]
mangocrazy
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« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2021, 01:22:43 AM »

Graham,
 Pin 87a is the unused normally closed.

Nigel

Hi Nigel,

Ok, thanks. Please humour me as I'm clueless about electrics, but could you just use a 4 pin relay, or does the unused pin in a 5 pin relay still have a function?

Graham
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
WestonE
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« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2021, 08:36:59 AM »

Graham

What is described is a normal 30am switching relay that can be 4 or 5 pin. 87 and 87a are twin outlets on the 5 pin version. Just make sure you do not try to use a change over relay which typically get used to help electric windows. These have a different diagram on the top.
Remember these things are just remote switches with a helpful diagram on top.

Eric   
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2021, 05:24:02 PM »

Thanks Eric, that explains it well. I guess the 5 pin relay is used when needing to actuate/control more than one output from a single input?

Graham
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
Nigel
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« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2021, 06:27:40 PM »

Graham,
I should have posted this last night. Should clarify the workings.


* 20211125_172409_resized.jpg (104.52 KB, 490x1008 - viewed 41 times.)
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1984 2.0 Carb HPE [ex Aus] Silver..turning to Grey Finanza.
2007 Mazda 6 2.3 [current daily, highly recommended]
The past:
1980 2.0 HPE White in South Africa [hope it survives!]
1976 1.6 Coupe Lancia Blu [PFG 76R] [probably deceased]
oh,and an Uno Turbo 1997 also in SA [stolen,never recovered]
WestonE
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« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2021, 06:48:08 PM »

That is a change over relay Nigel. i.e. it switches the connection between 87 and 87a. Typically You want the one that shows 87 and 87a joined together as dual outlets switched on when the coil is energized.   

I have no images available to share right now.

Eric
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Nigel
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« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2021, 10:24:17 PM »

That is a change over relay Nigel. i.e. it switches the connection between 87 and 87a. Typically You want the one that shows 87 and 87a joined together as dual outlets switched on when the coil is energized.   

I have no images available to share right now.

Eric

That got me out to the garage Eric. Upon energising 85 and 86, contact is made between 30 and 87, and is lost between 30 and 87a.
When I de-energise 85 and 86, contact is lost between 30 and 87 and made at 30 and 87a.

The diagram may not accurately reflect this, but the relay is good for this purpose.

Nigel
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1984 2.0 Carb HPE [ex Aus] Silver..turning to Grey Finanza.
2007 Mazda 6 2.3 [current daily, highly recommended]
The past:
1980 2.0 HPE White in South Africa [hope it survives!]
1976 1.6 Coupe Lancia Blu [PFG 76R] [probably deceased]
oh,and an Uno Turbo 1997 also in SA [stolen,never recovered]
WestonE
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« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2021, 09:42:27 AM »

Hi Nigel

Sorry for the stress. You test means you know for sure on 87 vs 87a for your needs. As I said the more common type you can connect to 87, 87a or 87 & 87a and they all provide switched power.

Eric   
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peteracs
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« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2021, 10:39:18 PM »

That is a change over relay Nigel. i.e. it switches the connection between 87 and 87a. Typically You want the one that shows 87 and 87a joined together as dual outlets switched on when the coil is energized.   

I have no images available to share right now.

Eric

Hi Eric

I am curious why you need a relay with two pins connected to the same point?

Also I would have assumed the naming convention for these devices is consistent with 87a always being normal connected?

Peter
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Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Saab 9-3 1.9Tid Cabrio
WestonE
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« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2021, 09:44:08 AM »

Hi Peter

Energizing 2 circuits at the same time on a split in the loom. There is a Relay convention document and I have it somewhere for aiding restful sleep. 87 normally is the priority switched output.

Eric
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