Lancia Beta Forum
May 19, 2022, 12:32:56 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Beta Meeta 50th Anniversary 2022 Bookings now open
https://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4385.0
 
   Home   Help Contact Admin Search Calendar Gallery Articles Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4
  Print  
Author Topic: Early HPE restoration  (Read 3339 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
peteracs
Administrator
Legendary Member
******
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 2988



« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2021, 11:40:59 PM »

Nothing to report on the rear side windows yet, but have learnt that there are two styles of window used (thanks Guy). I of course need the early probably rare to find in decent condition ones, rather than the later ones. The difference is the fixing on mine is via two elongated ‘pins’ which fix into plastic lined slots in the B pillar.

I have managed a half a day on the drivers door which is now almost stripped. The lower stainless strip had been riveted in position which I had not expected. The rest of the parts came off without too much of a fight and although I suspect filler in the very bottom of the door skin, it does appear to be in not too bad condition, certainly looks better to my mind than the Spider door was. As often is the case the window ‘scraper’ on the outside of the window has come detached from the stainless strip and is missing.

I will get some photos posted soon hopefully.
Logged

Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Beta HPE S2 pre F/L 1600
SanRemo78
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 158


« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2021, 11:44:20 AM »

Okay, please don't send out the search parties to lynch me and remember that back in the 1980's Beta's were still reasonably plentiful.

My first one was a red 1978 HPE with the mustard interior which looked superb but ergonomically wasn't as comfortably as the later one. After a minor accident around 1983/4 I needed to replace the bonnet and front wings on the car and, given that it was still 99% solid, I decided that it was worth the investment of a full respray and stripped it to a shell. One thing led to another and I decided to "update" the interior too to the later blue cloth/black dash/black steering wheel. Not an impossible job, just a few mounting clips in different spots on the dash and rear quarter panels if my memory is correct.

When I said 99% solid the part that wasn't was the rear window frames, the bottom edges were crumbling under the stainless trim. The solution was a simple one, just update to the later window frames that wrap around the B pillar, secured with a couple of self tappers. If you struggle to find the right early ones this may be the route you will have to follow albeit that it can be "masked" with a coat of paint?

Guy
Logged

Hawk HF3000 - Square Arch Stratos Replica - owned since 1988.
Hawk HF 3000 - Round Arch Stratos Replica - Under construction.
Alfa Romeo 159 T1 2.4 Q4 Sportwagon - Believed one of 4 in UK.
Fiat Panda 100HP
peteracs
Administrator
Legendary Member
******
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 2988



« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2021, 11:54:34 AM »

Hi Guy

Thanks, that does sound like a possible solution to the problem, which I assume was an issue on most early cars, apart from dry climate ones. I wonder if the glass is the same size as I am assuming later windows will most likely be tinted and the early cars were just plain?

There is also the black/stainless finish, but that would be secondary at this point.

Peter
Logged

Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Beta HPE S2 pre F/L 1600
SanRemo78
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 158


« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2021, 12:45:56 PM »

Hi Peter, I think that you might be able to remove the stainless trim off the original window frame and swap it over with a bit of care. The same probably goes for the glass but I can't recall how the frame was assembled. I think I got lucky and the later series glass I found was clear? Either that or I swapped the drop glass for tinted too.

Or, can metal polish remove the finish on the later trim to expose stainless steel underneath?

Guy
Logged

Hawk HF3000 - Square Arch Stratos Replica - owned since 1988.
Hawk HF 3000 - Round Arch Stratos Replica - Under construction.
Alfa Romeo 159 T1 2.4 Q4 Sportwagon - Believed one of 4 in UK.
Fiat Panda 100HP
peteracs
Administrator
Legendary Member
******
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 2988



« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2021, 06:06:20 PM »

Hi Guy

If clear glass was available on later cars, would be a result. I had assumed that the black was simply some sort of paint over stainless which could be removed and polished. On swapping over the glass would depend on if the profile of the early screen glass is the same as the later ones.

I will have a hunt for some later windows and if sensible price, get them and see what I can make of them.

Peter
Logged

Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Beta HPE S2 pre F/L 1600
betaveloce
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Belgium Belgium

Posts: 124



« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2021, 09:37:36 AM »

I can confirm clear glass was available on later cars, because after having my 1982 I.E. repainted, I switched from clear to tinted all around (see #1oah307 on Instagram).

I still have the clear windows, but don't know if it would be interesting for you to have them sent from outside the UK, with Brexit and all...
Logged

Beta Coupé 1.8 '74
Beta Spider 1.6 '80
Beta HPE 2.0 i.e. '82
Delta Integrale 8V '88
Ypsilon 1.4 16V '09
Neil-yaj396
Legendary Member
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1719


1979 1300 Coupe


« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2021, 11:09:57 AM »

The black finish on later cars is just paint, and can be removed relatively easily. In fact, on most Volumex/ie cars, the trick is keeping it on!

Did the black start on facelift HPEs? It didn't appear on Coupes until the second facelift.
Logged
peteracs
Administrator
Legendary Member
******
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 2988



« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2021, 11:22:47 AM »

I can confirm clear glass was available on later cars, because after having my 1982 I.E. repainted, I switched from clear to tinted all around (see #1oah307 on Instagram).

I still have the clear windows, but don't know if it would be interesting for you to have them sent from outside the UK, with Brexit and all...

Hi, thanks for the offer. I do intend buying a pair of good condition later windows and may very well need the clear glass if the early glass is a different size.

To save the shipping to U.K. issues and costs, you can ship to our friends in France where we can pick it up when we visit next year. I will let you know when I have the replacement windows here.

Peter
Logged

Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Beta HPE S2 pre F/L 1600
peteracs
Administrator
Legendary Member
******
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 2988



« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2021, 01:25:33 PM »

A good day spent on the car yesterday. Finally have the drivers door off and attacked the RHD front wing. Some of the screws came out ok, two had to be drilled. Given the state of the inner wing I am surprised that many unscrewed. Also managed to remove the rest of the fixings from the rear hatch including the stainless window surround. The window will be the next job. It is very well fixed in with the original bonding, so will be a challenge. Photos below of how far I have got…

Peter


* A0C639CE-5B07-4CE6-A992-8E4F533502A4.jpeg (138.55 KB, 640x480 - viewed 139 times.)

* E65E87E4-BF05-4FD6-B321-37D928AD1DCB.jpeg (110.47 KB, 640x480 - viewed 136 times.)

* A1FD6FE0-4EFE-4059-BF53-7C213E9DEFAD.jpeg (140.94 KB, 480x640 - viewed 134 times.)
« Last Edit: December 05, 2021, 01:55:18 PM by peteracs » Logged

Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Beta HPE S2 pre F/L 1600
Nigel
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 527



« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2021, 03:26:52 PM »

Hi Peter,
I bought a length of abrasive cutting wire, made for screen removal.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333858995028

Great to view the progress.

Nigel
Logged

1984 2.0 Carb HPE [ex Aus] Grigio Finanza.
2007 Mazda 6 2.3 [current daily, highly recommended]
The past:
1980 2.0 HPE White in South Africa [hope it survives!]
1976 1.6 Coupe Lancia Blu [PFG 76R] [probably deceased]
oh,and an Uno Turbo 1997 also in SA [stolen,never recovered]
peteracs
Administrator
Legendary Member
******
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 2988



« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2021, 03:34:42 PM »

Hi Nigel

Interesting, thanks for link. I was going to try a length of bike brake cable I have, if that is not abrasive enough will invest in some of that. Cannot see how else you get it out.

Peter
Logged

Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Beta HPE S2 pre F/L 1600
WestonE
Legendary Member
******
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 1516


« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2021, 03:38:57 PM »

If you have the nerve to try it Fein Vibrating saws are frequently used in a slow and steady way.

Eric
Logged
peteracs
Administrator
Legendary Member
******
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 2988



« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2021, 03:53:59 PM »

One point to make is that although the inner wing is bad, it is no worse than the Spider when they uncovered that. Overall the Spider was much worse than what I see in the HPE (at present of course). On the Spider as well as the inner front wings, the outer wings were scrap, one door needed a fair amount of new metal, both sides at the base of A and B pillars needed work, the rear turrets were a mess. On the HPE so far there is some work at the base of the A pillars, and some rot around the base of the rear turrets together with minor bits of rust in various places where some new metal will be needed, but not huge amounts compared to the Spider which also needed new front footwells amongst other items. the top of the fuel tank is rusty, but will wait to see how much when I drop it down. Overall pretty happy with what I have found so far. I am sure when it is blasted we will find a whole load more.....

Peter
Logged

Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Beta HPE S2 pre F/L 1600
peteracs
Administrator
Legendary Member
******
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 2988



« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2021, 03:56:22 PM »

If you have the nerve to try it Fein Vibrating saws are frequently used in a slow and steady way.

Eric

Hi Eric

Power tools near to glass would not be an option I would use, I would definitely ruin the glass. I like the slow manual method.

Peter
Logged

Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Beta HPE S2 pre F/L 1600
Nigel
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 527



« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2021, 11:54:08 PM »

The inside of the fuel tank is more critical then the outside as I'm sure you appreciate.
 
From what I've read in numerous other threads, fuel issues
contribute the most stress. It was for this reason that I hardly hesitated
in fitting a new tank, despite the considerable investment.

Glad to hear that, in the main so far, you're finding fewer issues than the Spider.

Nigel
Logged

1984 2.0 Carb HPE [ex Aus] Grigio Finanza.
2007 Mazda 6 2.3 [current daily, highly recommended]
The past:
1980 2.0 HPE White in South Africa [hope it survives!]
1976 1.6 Coupe Lancia Blu [PFG 76R] [probably deceased]
oh,and an Uno Turbo 1997 also in SA [stolen,never recovered]
WestonE
Legendary Member
******
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 1516


« Reply #35 on: December 06, 2021, 08:20:08 AM »

Hi Nigel

I agree with your view on take no risks with rusty tanks.

Eric
Logged
peteracs
Administrator
Legendary Member
******
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 2988



« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2021, 07:04:02 PM »

I will take the sender out over next few days and survey the scene….

Major job of the day apart from sweeping up, was to finish getting the rear window out. A right royal pain. In the end I heated the original sealant with a hot air gun, this made it a bit more pliable. I then was able to get the internally fixed trim out completely. Then I cleared as much of the sealant out with a Stanley blade and small angled scraper as possible. Then using a bike brake cable I was able to cut the remaining sealant. It took a good few hours. The interior trim and glass removed so far have now been stored away in the attic workshop.

Starting to look like a bare chassis.

Peter


* 7AB1FB2C-C67F-44A8-A208-F2E4C8A83AAA.jpeg (102.84 KB, 640x480 - viewed 113 times.)

* 9ADEB41D-AA02-4365-8A1D-3160AF377513.jpeg (73.81 KB, 640x480 - viewed 115 times.)
Logged

Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Beta HPE S2 pre F/L 1600
Nigel
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 527



« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2021, 11:43:32 PM »

Peter,
That screen surround appears to be in very good condition, far better than mine.
Glad you got that screen out with what you had.

If you find that the tank sender unit is damaged/rusty/etc upon inspection, which they
often are, don't be too quick in buying an exact replacement. You have the
opportunity to upgrade to the later type, but that would be in conjunction with a new tank.

Regards, Nigel
Logged

1984 2.0 Carb HPE [ex Aus] Grigio Finanza.
2007 Mazda 6 2.3 [current daily, highly recommended]
The past:
1980 2.0 HPE White in South Africa [hope it survives!]
1976 1.6 Coupe Lancia Blu [PFG 76R] [probably deceased]
oh,and an Uno Turbo 1997 also in SA [stolen,never recovered]
peteracs
Administrator
Legendary Member
******
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 2988



« Reply #38 on: December 07, 2021, 09:57:53 AM »

Hi Nigel

Yes, the whole rear hatch is in good condition apart from the holes where the badges fit, which is typical because of the metal on metal with the pins, crap design. They will be easily filled and redrilled and I put butyl on the back of the badges to stop water ingress etc. Overall the rear of the car is in great condition, with a hole in the left hand rear well, just below a badly fitting aerial point…… also on the right hand side at the front of the right turret. It appears the turrets have had work done in the past, but is still in good condition.

I still have the wiring to remove from the rear hatch which will probably be a little awkward, one side has been cut for some reason, but I was aiming to rebuild the loom anyway, so just need the original as a template.

Then it is on with the rest of the interior and passenger door which should hopefully be fairly straight forward.

Peter
Logged

Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Beta HPE S2 pre F/L 1600
peteracs
Administrator
Legendary Member
******
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 2988



« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2021, 07:07:50 PM »

A good days work, ignored the hatch and pressed on with removing the interior and left hand door parts. The only issue I had was the rear seats are held in with a number of cross headed countersunk bolts and they protrude to the underside. They are well fastened in and I really do want to drill them, so am leaving for now and will revisit later with some easing oil on the underside when I can sensibly get to it to clean up the bolts.

Generally not a huge amount of rot. The left hand door has some rot along the front area where the triangular glass sits, mainly on the inside which is curious, but the rest of the door looks to be solid. Not had the carpet up yet, but have seen some what appears to be surface rust. You can also now see that both sills have been replaced and around the base of the rear turrets is a bit of a bodge, but that looks to have to be redone anyway, so no big surprise.

Always amuses me the variety of screws (cross point and slotted) used to when a car is just kept going. Also the after market stereo installation where the speaker wires are run along the carpet trim below the doors and held in with silicone rather than under than remove the trim and run them where the other wires go.

The carpet is ready to come out, but leaving in there as more comfortable than the metal floor!

Peter


* 0636054B-565A-4FCA-8E23-FA3249F76CE1.jpeg (118.33 KB, 640x480 - viewed 86 times.)
Logged

Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Beta HPE S2 pre F/L 1600
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!