Lancia Beta Forum
December 05, 2021, 01:15:22 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: NEC Classic Car Show 12th-14th November 2021
http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4420.0
 
   Home   Help Contact Admin Search Calendar Gallery Articles Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Beta coupe Montecarlo hybrid oil pump  (Read 309 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
squiglyzigly
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 341



« on: August 02, 2021, 09:16:53 PM »

What am I doing and why.
Iíve always thought the standard 2.0l oil pump was a compromise and could be improved.
Lancia/Lampredi would surely have thought so because they put a better pump in the Montecarlo.
Why is the Montecarlo pump better? Because itís got longer gears to supply more flow.
Why didnít they put a bigger pump in the Beta coupe/HPE/berlina variant? I think it was because of the close proximity of he subframe which isnít an issue in a Monte.
Whatís the big difference? 5mm. Yes thatís all but every little helps.
The pump gears are the same diameter but 45mm long instead of 40mm. This gives better flow.
Now all of this is just my opinion and I stand to be wrong, but anyway I set out to put a Monte pump in my Beta.
Years ago I done this by literally chucking a Monte pump in my VX with a modified pick up arm and enlarged the sump to accommodate. Then it hits the subframe so I had to cut a pocket into the subframe.
A lot of work but I got it in and itís been working nicely for some time.
Fast forward 20 years and Iíve chosen a different approach.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2021, 10:28:28 PM by squiglyzigly » Logged

VX HPE (resto started Sept Ď21)
Beta Saloon 2.0l s2 1979 (completed July 2020)
Beta coupť VX (completed April 2017)
Aprilia RSVR 2002
Alfa 159 sportwagon jtd eco (slower than a courgette)
squiglyzigly
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 341



« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2021, 09:22:38 PM »

This time I chose to put the Monte gears in the beta housing.
Obviously they donít go in so I hand made a 5mm plate to get them in. Now a real pro wouldíve got this templated and cncíd, but I donít have that kind of budget for experiments.
You can see the gears poking out of the beta housing with my plate ready to go.


* D3342775-2009-438A-BF15-1430480B1512.jpeg (136.56 KB, 640x640 - viewed 60 times.)

* AA336CC3-EBC3-4236-8293-4FD7CE1E07EF.jpeg (1227.2 KB, 3024x3024 - viewed 61 times.)
Logged

VX HPE (resto started Sept Ď21)
Beta Saloon 2.0l s2 1979 (completed July 2020)
Beta coupť VX (completed April 2017)
Aprilia RSVR 2002
Alfa 159 sportwagon jtd eco (slower than a courgette)
squiglyzigly
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 341



« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2021, 09:31:08 PM »

And the completed hybrid installed. The sump only needed minor panel beating to accommodate the slightly deeper pump but the good news is that it clears the subframe with ease.

Itís currently in and running and with good oil pressure, albeit only as far as a standard gauge demonstrates.
But I think itís a mod with potential for high performance engines.
If itís good for a Monte then itís good for a 2.0l beta right?


* A17B0045-1899-4CB2-860C-785C6751E299.jpeg (156.15 KB, 640x480 - viewed 62 times.)
Logged

VX HPE (resto started Sept Ď21)
Beta Saloon 2.0l s2 1979 (completed July 2020)
Beta coupť VX (completed April 2017)
Aprilia RSVR 2002
Alfa 159 sportwagon jtd eco (slower than a courgette)
Nigel
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 438



« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2021, 10:45:26 PM »

Nice work Ian.
I didn't know that the Monte pump is so improved.

Something to put in the job jar for much later.

Regards
Nigel
Logged

1984 2.0 Carb HPE [ex Aus] Silver..turning to Grey Finanza.
2007 Mazda 6 2.3 [current daily, highly recommended]
The past:
1980 2.0 HPE White in South Africa [hope it survives!]
1976 1.6 Coupe Lancia Blu [PFG 76R] [probably deceased]
oh,and an Uno Turbo 1997 also in SA [stolen,never recovered]
WestonE
Legendary Member
******
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 1422


« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2021, 07:54:56 AM »

Interesting Innovation where us mere mortals have only used the VX Pump an accusump, baffled sump and a 2mm pressure relief valve shim to help the oil cooler as suggested by GC. I have very accurate pressure / temp gauges in my set up with data logging possible so eventually I could track how Oil pressure performs and see if I need to copy your bright idea.   

Eric
Thank you for sharing 
Logged
squiglyzigly
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 341



« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2021, 10:57:12 AM »

Although i dont have accurate pressure guages installed its very obvious that there is more pressure at idle and up to 2.5k. This is where i think the real every day advantage is for engine longevity. Especially as this is where most cars spend a majority of their working life.
I only placed a 1mm shim in for slightly more top end pressure as this motor will not spend time buzzing max revs on a track day, so flow capacity is priority over pressure.
It will always be difficult to quantify the long term benefits of more oil flow but it must be all positive. The testing would be exhaustive but I imagine Lampredi/Fiat already done this on the Monte.

I'd be interested to get my hands on some other twin cam oil pumps to inspect their internals and designs as possible donors for beta pump upgrades.
The 2 that spring to mind are 131 and 124.
Logged

VX HPE (resto started Sept Ď21)
Beta Saloon 2.0l s2 1979 (completed July 2020)
Beta coupť VX (completed April 2017)
Aprilia RSVR 2002
Alfa 159 sportwagon jtd eco (slower than a courgette)
peteracs
Administrator
Legendary Member
******
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 2806



« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2021, 12:57:17 PM »

Great work and a really interesting result. As to the 131 version maybe Theo has or knows of someone with a spare one for you to inspect?

Peter
Logged

Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Saab 9-3 1.9Tid Cabrio
WestonE
Legendary Member
******
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 1422


« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2021, 05:44:08 PM »

Hi Ian

I think the 131 top half is the same as the Monte I would have to look at GCs books to jog my memory on the 124.

Eric
Logged
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!