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Author Topic: Alloy fuel tank project  (Read 2389 times)
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peteracs
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« Reply #40 on: December 26, 2021, 06:10:49 PM »

Hi All

Just wondered if anyone else is considering buying one of these tanks as I am going to get a replacement for the HPE at some point over the next year or so?

Would be good to do a multiple buy to help with the cost.

Big thanks to Nigel for sorting out the pattern!

Peter
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Marcus Robinson


« Reply #41 on: December 26, 2021, 10:09:52 PM »

I could be interested in one of these depending on costs
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1982 - Lancia Beta HPE 2000ie http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=472.0
1989 - Lancia Delta 16v integrale
1992 - Lancia Thema 2.0 16v Turbo
2001 - Honda Civic Type R EP3
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« Reply #42 on: December 26, 2021, 11:41:51 PM »

Hi Marcus

I will send an enquiry come the New Year and see what they say.

Peter
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« Reply #43 on: December 27, 2021, 03:02:11 PM »

Count me in as well, interested
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Current:
S2FL Coupe 1600 (restoration project)

Former Lancias
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Nigel
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« Reply #44 on: December 27, 2021, 04:13:08 PM »

Hi all,
A couple of observations if I may:[with ref to pics above]

Ordering in bulk will probably bring the cost of materials down a bit, but the labour not so much.Turning the
spigots in bulk will help as well perhaps.

I would recommend pushing the front top edge forwards almost but not quite to original position,this will
aid the seating of the rubber sender surround, but also assist access to the hose connections. I can give the exact amount later.

The filler pipe size available measures 51mm. The ethanol-proof hose from Car Builders Solutions is also 51mm. I really
struggled to fit the new hose over the swaged end.
I would therefore recommend that the filler pipe is not swaged. [Peace of mind may alter your view]

The swirl pot design and fuel feed and return lines within the tank will suit carb and FI, however
I suggest you use the later sender unit without the pick up.

One difference between Coupe and HPE that needs to be catered for is the position of the filler inlet.
The Coupe is at the far front wereas the HPE is some 80mm behind that position. Caveat:Maybe Peter can confirm
this from his early HPE....it may be different.

The other difference is that the Coupe has a long and convoluted filler neck.To prevent errors, I suggest doing all that
curvature with rubber hose instead.

He did not make mounting holes in my instance, which I preferred. This offered a bit of flexibility in final positioning.

If Iain at SMD needs a tank, I have my old one here,and he's only 10 mins up the road.

Edit: Some of the above I covered before today, but it is often helpful to consolidate.

I've probably left something out.

Cheers and happy clean fuels....[well,except for the ethanol]
Nigel
« Last Edit: December 27, 2021, 04:38:56 PM by Nigel » Logged

1984 2.0 Carb HPE [ex Aus] Silver..turning to Grey Finanza.
2007 Mazda 6 2.3 [current daily, highly recommended]
The past:
1980 2.0 HPE White in South Africa [hope it survives!]
1976 1.6 Coupe Lancia Blu [PFG 76R] [probably deceased]
oh,and an Uno Turbo 1997 also in SA [stolen,never recovered]
peteracs
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« Reply #45 on: December 27, 2021, 05:35:49 PM »

Hi Nigel

Thanks for the comments, all very useful. I have my tank out, so will take some photos and you can compare with yours as to filler knock etc. My tank has the take up in the sender unit, but not the return which is separate. On the Spider both take up and return were in the sender unit.

Peter
« Last Edit: January 11, 2022, 05:49:49 PM by peteracs » Logged

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« Reply #46 on: January 11, 2022, 06:05:50 PM »

Only just got around to starting the ball rolling on this. Spoke with Ian at SMD Racing and will send further info and get some quotes from him. Ian do you still have the tank he used as a pattern as he has some info, but will need a tank?

Also a bit of unrelated information I found out was that he used to work for Guy Croft when he was based in Rochester, small world eh.

Peter
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« Reply #47 on: January 11, 2022, 09:56:35 PM »

Hi Peter,

Yes and no. I have my original tank here, and I'm happy to take that over to Iain.
[The coupe i.e. tank which he took original data from went back to Mark. Subsequently sold.]

Yes, post pics of your tank here, and I'll do a comparison, with pics if necessary.

You need to decide where you want the fuel to exit from. And that will depend, partly,
on which sender unit you intend to use. He will probably fit a swirl pot regardless.

Apart from that, it's all down to sizing and having returns and breathers in place.

Regards, Nigel
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1984 2.0 Carb HPE [ex Aus] Silver..turning to Grey Finanza.
2007 Mazda 6 2.3 [current daily, highly recommended]
The past:
1980 2.0 HPE White in South Africa [hope it survives!]
1976 1.6 Coupe Lancia Blu [PFG 76R] [probably deceased]
oh,and an Uno Turbo 1997 also in SA [stolen,never recovered]
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« Reply #48 on: January 12, 2022, 04:03:12 PM »

I've got a very manky old carb tank, good enough for measurements, if anyone needs anything.

Mark
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Nigel
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« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2022, 07:01:44 PM »

Hi Peter,

Yes and no. I have my original tank here, and I'm happy to take that over to Iain.
[The coupe i.e. tank which he took original data from went back to Mark. Subsequently sold.]

Yes, post pics of your tank here, and I'll do a comparison, with pics if necessary.

You need to decide where you want the fuel to exit from. And that will depend, partly,
on which sender unit you intend to use. He will probably fit a swirl pot regardless.


Apart from that, it's all down to sizing and having returns and breathers in place.

Regards, Nigel

Actually, Peter, you don't need to decide this now. Iain can fit a fuel outlet pipe from
the swirl pot [which would be compatible with any upgrades later] and either of the
various sender units will still fit and be usable.

After exchanging messages earlier, I'm going to drop off my tank with him tomorrow sometime.

Regards, Nigel
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1984 2.0 Carb HPE [ex Aus] Silver..turning to Grey Finanza.
2007 Mazda 6 2.3 [current daily, highly recommended]
The past:
1980 2.0 HPE White in South Africa [hope it survives!]
1976 1.6 Coupe Lancia Blu [PFG 76R] [probably deceased]
oh,and an Uno Turbo 1997 also in SA [stolen,never recovered]
chrisc
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« Reply #50 on: January 13, 2022, 08:48:26 PM »

Similarly, I have a tank that appears intact but I haven't poked at it. No idea if it's coupe / hpe / carb / injection
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Current:
S2FL Coupe 1600 (restoration project)

Former Lancias
HPE VX A52 VGK (parts donor)
C363 RPC (probably still sorned in cumbria with it's new owner)
peteracs
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« Reply #51 on: January 13, 2022, 10:15:00 PM »

Hi Nigel

Thanks for doing that. I am going to have a good look back at your build and see if that makes sense for me. My main concern is the filler neck position as the sender unit can just be used as a sender and not used as a pickup.

Peter
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« Reply #52 on: January 14, 2022, 05:21:21 PM »

Nigel, I was talking with a local guy who amongst other things has built tanks in the past and he was a bit concerned about alloy tanks being suspended on 4 bolts/studs. His comment was it WILL fail due to flexing and weight of petrol in the tank. His suggestion was to destress the tank fixings and use stainless straps with padding as per lorry tanks.

Food for thought for me and you as to how to solve the tank issue long term.

Peter
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« Reply #53 on: January 14, 2022, 07:33:46 PM »

Peter, interesting input.

I hadn't given that any thought. Long term who knows. I suppose I'd better get some
miles on my car. It's worth mentioning to Iain and Tony [the fabricator] at some stage.]
Maybe a couple of additional fillets around the right-angle mounts would help.
But, until it happens.....

Tank delivered.

Nigel

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1984 2.0 Carb HPE [ex Aus] Silver..turning to Grey Finanza.
2007 Mazda 6 2.3 [current daily, highly recommended]
The past:
1980 2.0 HPE White in South Africa [hope it survives!]
1976 1.6 Coupe Lancia Blu [PFG 76R] [probably deceased]
oh,and an Uno Turbo 1997 also in SA [stolen,never recovered]
peteracs
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« Reply #54 on: January 14, 2022, 09:03:23 PM »

I think the fundamental concept of hanging via 4 bolts is the issue. Removing the rigid fix to the chassis and supporting via straps sounds a good longer term solution. However you beef up the mounting brackets it will always be the weak link compared to the steel chassis

Just my thought anyway

Peter
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WestonE
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« Reply #55 on: January 15, 2022, 10:22:36 AM »

Hi Peter

So really it is just adding 2 stainless straps under the tank lined with closed cell foams and securing them to the OE 8mm mounts. Personally I would prefer 2 x 8mm Stainless Rivnuts replacing the sometimes fragile 8mm stud.  I guess the concern is point load on the alloy causing a fracture in which case longer mounting flanges fitted with a deep folded end should do as well. This would have a rectangular weld patch i.e. to a wider area on the tank side than a simple straight flange with just a weld line.

Of course both the wider flange and the folded bit might already be done on Nigel's tank. I suspect the stainless straps will still be more expensive given they have to be formed to the shape of the tank to be good.

Eric
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« Reply #56 on: January 15, 2022, 11:32:48 AM »

Hi Eric

This was just a 2 minute phone conversation, so no specifics. My understanding was because the tank was rigidly attached to the chassis and that aluminium will crack with flexing, that some sort of failure was likely at some point. I would have thought that good insulation of the aluminium from the steel of the chassis was also a must to avoid corrosion. What appears to be a simple solution soon turns into a minefield….

Peter
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« Reply #57 on: January 15, 2022, 11:57:10 AM »

Is it possible to remove the steel tank, vent it properly (20 minutes attached to a car's exhaust pipe - running obviously!) and split the tank open, treat any rust and remove any sharp edges/baffles and then fit a racing bag tank inside it and Sikaflex it back together?

https://fuelsafe.com/custom-fuel-cells/

Guy
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