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News: Beta Meeta 50th Anniversary 2022
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Author Topic: My 1.6 coupe restoration (formerly back in red + rust)  (Read 1625 times)
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chrisc
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« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2020, 06:42:25 PM »

Not a lot to add right now except that I'm currently having the lived experience of trying the vintage warehouse 65 lights. The short version is : lights - perfect. Retaining rings + bowls = waste of time.

Trying to find the right bezels is proving a nightmare! universal ones don't have the lugs in the right place so far. Hopefully I will win and then post a write up to save people the trouble in future.
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Current:
S2FL Coupe 1600 (restoration project)

Former Lancias
HPE VX A52 VGK (parts donor)
C363 RPC (probably still sorned in cumbria with it's new owner)
GerardJPC
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« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2020, 08:02:18 PM »

Any use?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lancia-Beta-Chrome-Plastic-Headlamp-Ring/114594356927?hash=item1aae5b1ebf:g:rYUAAOSwGGNfK~SL

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lancia-Beta-I-E-Headlamp-Including-Bowl-CARELLO/114594356922?hash=item1aae5b1eba:g:4HoAAOSwvgVfK9rT

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lancia-Beta-Carello-Headlamp-Bow/114328528391?hash=item1a9e82e607:g:KQ8AAOSwHiBevrOk
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1979 Beta 1600 Coupe

1962 Lancia Appia Series 3 Berlina, 1973 Fiat 124 Sport Coupe 1800, 1981 Lotus Eclat Series 2 (project), 1982 Moto Guzzi V50 Monza, 1982 Moto Morini 350 Sport, 1983 Land Rover Series 3 88, 2009 Jaguar XK 5.0
WestonE
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« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2020, 10:34:03 AM »

Reach out nicely to Mark Milne and be prepared to visit with your full shopping list and a decent amount of cash. You just might come back with everything you need. He can help you like few others can and I know he has multiple headlamp sets. Do not expect mail order and be patient. He is a great guy and one of the true Beta fans.

Good Luck

Eric
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chrisc
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« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2020, 11:45:13 AM »

I'm hoping I can come up with a solution for ever so we can all avoid this trying to find increasingly elusive headlights Smiley

It looks like I should be able to fit universal rings like this so we can just buy generic 5 3/4" lights



the tabs on the retainer ring are in the wrong place for it to just work with the original carello backing bowls, but that said, the backing bowl tabs are broad enough that it should be possible to drill new holes to allow these to fit and use m3 nuts to hold them in place.

This isn't perfect because these universal rings don't have a rolled edge to the bezel, but it's a start. I'm going to try my luck and see if I can find a company that can fabricate new rings based off the originals that were part of the lamp assemble.
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Current:
S2FL Coupe 1600 (restoration project)

Former Lancias
HPE VX A52 VGK (parts donor)
C363 RPC (probably still sorned in cumbria with it's new owner)
frankxhv773t
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« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2020, 01:25:37 PM »

I too am a Beta returnee (via Prismas, Dedras, Y10s and Flaminias). I have hopefully bought a few hopeless cases in my time and the current Spider may be another. I got mine in a swap for something that probably needed breaking for spares but I couldn't bear to scrap it. The saving grace is that I have a cupboard of parts from years ago which will cover most of the things I need to replace. My advice would be to resist the temptation to buy all the pretty shiny bits and focus on what really needs doing to the body. Is it financially viable if you aren't going to do the welding yourself for fun. Like you, my step one was to dry it out. Step two is shifting the loose rust and getting some rust proof primer on it. If the leading edge of the bonnet isn't rusted through I'd flood it with waxoyle while it still exists.
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chrisc
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« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2020, 02:02:10 PM »

100% - I'm sure on here it looks like I'm rearranging deckchairs on the titanic  Grin

Step 1 - stop it getting any worse - done
Step 2 - make sure it's viable - done
Step 3 - decide repair route - In progress
Step 4 - gather parts for repair - In progress
Step 5 - do the repairs
Step 6 - drive and enjoy!


Step 3 is taking longer than I'd like, hence doing step 4 and a tiny bit of step 5 in parallel. The only reason I'm even looking at step 5 stuff like the headlights is for that all important aspect of restoration - morale! even if I can sort out one tiny bit and say that's done, that is still a part that is Done!

The majority of amount of what looks like filth and rusty detritus in the photos is actually all the waxoyl in the world concealing good metal.

I found this tiny sticker in the rear window - what do you think my chances are for claiming on the guarantee? Smiley



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Current:
S2FL Coupe 1600 (restoration project)

Former Lancias
HPE VX A52 VGK (parts donor)
C363 RPC (probably still sorned in cumbria with it's new owner)
frankxhv773t
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« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2020, 08:39:45 PM »

They'll want to see the receipts for all your annual bodywork inspections before they pay out under the guarantee......

Point taken on the morale front. You can also rightly claim that the parts won't get any cheaper and can always be used on a later project.(Hence my already having a cupboard full of tasty parts from a project I sold on 20 years ago.)

Re the Titanic though, I think it had rather less holes in it!
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Nigel
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« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2020, 12:32:15 AM »

Chris,
Your morale thing struck a chord.
I had realised that when I took on my HPE project, I didn't want to reach a stripped down into
little pieces stage and loose interest from the enormity of the task. I therefore had a goal,
which was the MOT.
Once that was achieved, I drove it for a month then sorned it.
Now i'm in my winter project mode which involves a lot of what it still needs to be
a better and even more reliable car.
Collecting parts is a brilliant way of keeping on top of the mental curve, even if you don't fit them yet.

As said before, there are a million ways of restoring a car, each one of us has a different approach,
all of which are fine. I think that's what make the process, and sharing, so enjoyable.

Next year, when permitted, I want to tour the country over a couple of weeks, visiting fellow
Beta owners with my car. I hope that some will let this happen!

Best of works with your project!

Nigel
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1984 2.0 Carb HPE [ex Aus] Silver
2007 Mazda 6 2.3 [current daily,highly recommended]
The past:
1980 2.0 HPE White in South Africa [hope it survives!]
1976 1.6 Coupe lancia Blu [PFG 76R] [probably deceased]
oh,and an Uno Turbo 1997 also in SA [stolen,never recovered]
DrewWoo
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« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2021, 03:41:13 PM »

Me too, Iím a Beta returnee! I had a coupe and VX HPE back in late 80s and early 90s. Bought my 1981 1600 coupe a couple of years ago as a rolling resto. Iíve since been trawling eBay collecting bits I might need one day!!
Iíve finally succumbed and bought some much needed brake discs from Bielstein.com - nearly £300 for all four with shipping. My thought was buy them while I can and worry about the cost another day.
I think mine is in need of slightly less work, it was owned by an enthusiast for many years which was a God-send, but it suffered the year before I bought it by being shut away in a very damp lock-up. Now the rot has got a hold but itís not disastrous.
It would be great for the two cars to meet on an event one day when weíre allowed back out. I would have been at Bicester Heritage Scramble this weekend, fingers crossed it can go ahead on itís rescheduled date in April...


* F343C3E0-780F-4014-9917-24590C09FE34.jpeg (342.16 KB, 1280x958 - viewed 138 times.)
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Lancia Beta Coupe 1600, 1981
Alfa Romeo Spider, 1985
VW Transporter T6, 2016
Fordson Dexta, 1959
Harley Davidson Sportster, 2014
WestonTB
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« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2021, 08:57:00 PM »

I agree, many ways to restore a car, all of them valid but having once had my coupe off the road for 10 years... Never again! she will never be perfect but I don't care, I just have to drive it as much as possible ,all year, all weathers trying to avoid wet salty roads and keep on top of 'niggles' as they appear, thank god for Dinitrol!!!
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GerardJPC
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« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2021, 10:52:40 AM »

I have freebie tickets for the Bicester event in April - I plan to be there in my Appia on Saturday and my Beta on Sunday, or vice versa.
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1979 Beta 1600 Coupe

1962 Lancia Appia Series 3 Berlina, 1973 Fiat 124 Sport Coupe 1800, 1981 Lotus Eclat Series 2 (project), 1982 Moto Guzzi V50 Monza, 1982 Moto Morini 350 Sport, 1983 Land Rover Series 3 88, 2009 Jaguar XK 5.0
chrisc
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« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2021, 08:43:06 PM »

More morale boosting / deckchair arrangement today

I caved and ordered a set of original headlight rings - so if I were to summarise my trying out the vintagewarehouse65 setup -

  • If you can live without the underbonnet adjustment, you can buy the complete kit and backing bowls and it'll work no problem with universal chrome rings, universal headlights and backing bowls, and you'll never have a problem getting hold of them again
  • If you want to keep the underbonnet adjusters, you need to keep your original backing bowls. Universal headlights will fit in these, and you can either use original chrome rings, or you can use universal chrome rings but if you do, you will need to drill new holes in the backing bowls as the universal rings fixing points don't quite match the original locations - and you'll need to use nut / bolt arrangements rather than the original threaded bolt holes

I personally wanted to keep the underbonnet adjustment, so kept the original backing bowls. The fixings were all pretty much balls of rust so I took the bowls + lights complete out of the car and did them all on the bench, which was much easier. If you're using universal rings you'll need to take that approach anyway, unless you go the whole hog and weld captive nuts into the newly drilled backing plate holes. On my original backing bowls the threaded bolt holes had rusted away so I had to fit nuts on the back - my hint for that, make sure you have the light lens vertical because you'll never get it adjusted again with it still in the car!

Anyway - result = Morale! It keeps tempting to me fit the replacement valance I have in the garage, but that's probably premature.

It makes me very happy to see the front of the car at least having all the parts attached with some of the hard to get hold of stuff solved.


In other unobtanium parts, The washer tank had a lid that didn't even come close to fitting. I couldn't find one that fitted so 3d printing to the rescue



It fits! but.. it also turns out it lacks some flexibility. I'll give it another try with different material soon



Not pictured as it's not quite finished yet, is replacing the ignition switch. No more screwdriver to operate the ignition for me! I trial fitted the new one using non-shear head bolts just to make sure it's all working, I need to get back to it tomorrow and fit the shear bolts and refit the steering column cowlings. With that, the car will be in one piece as such as much as it's ever been in my ownership. I still need to replace the lock barrel in the filler cap to get access to everything, but we're getting there!

Finally got round to approaching Mark about the repair panels, seeing whether or not the windscreen scuttles are still available. Fingers crossed as it'll make life easier if they are
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Current:
S2FL Coupe 1600 (restoration project)

Former Lancias
HPE VX A52 VGK (parts donor)
C363 RPC (probably still sorned in cumbria with it's new owner)
peteracs
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« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2021, 12:49:37 AM »

For the universal rings, that is what I have on the car with original bowls. They are fixed on with self tappers, they came to me like that, I just replaced the screws with stainless ones. This makes the whole job a lot simpler than trying to fix nuts and bolts.

Peter
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Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Saab 9-3 1.9Tid Cabrio
GerardJPC
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« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2021, 11:16:28 AM »

Coraggio fratello!
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1979 Beta 1600 Coupe

1962 Lancia Appia Series 3 Berlina, 1973 Fiat 124 Sport Coupe 1800, 1981 Lotus Eclat Series 2 (project), 1982 Moto Guzzi V50 Monza, 1982 Moto Morini 350 Sport, 1983 Land Rover Series 3 88, 2009 Jaguar XK 5.0
chrisc
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« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2021, 11:26:47 AM »

For the universal rings, that is what I have on the car with original bowls. They are fixed on with self tappers, they came to me like that, I just replaced the screws with stainless ones. This makes the whole job a lot simpler than trying to fix nuts and bolts.

Peter

That would be more sensible - I guess I didn't think of it as the originals used bolts rather than screws and the kit I ordered came with bolts
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Current:
S2FL Coupe 1600 (restoration project)

Former Lancias
HPE VX A52 VGK (parts donor)
C363 RPC (probably still sorned in cumbria with it's new owner)
frankxhv773t
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« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2021, 02:27:52 PM »

If you can extract the barrel from the filler cap you can adapt it to the new. Put the new key in the extracted barrel and file off any pins that are still protruding. This of course reduces the degree of security afforded by the lock so you have to decide whether the loss is significant. It should still deter any casual theft of petrol.
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peteracs
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« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2021, 03:20:02 PM »

Hi

Before you do that, suggest you have a read of this thread which has a locking fuel cap illustrated and explains how to rekey them.

http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4191.0

Hope it helps

Peter
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Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Saab 9-3 1.9Tid Cabrio
chrisc
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« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2021, 08:22:19 PM »

Cheers. I understand the process - I wouldn't mind reducing the security of the lock through filing the pins, but the number 1 problem is that it's locked, and on the car. I could watch the lockpicking lawyer all day on youtube without understanding the tactile feel of the pins to be able to pick the lock myself, so if I'm calling in a pro to pick it may as well have them rekey it as well Smiley

Keen to get that lock out though as one of the first mechanical jobs is clearing out the 20 year old petrol and replacing the fuel lines. Amazingly the car still starts and runs off the old fuel but getting rid of it just makes sense.
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Current:
S2FL Coupe 1600 (restoration project)

Former Lancias
HPE VX A52 VGK (parts donor)
C363 RPC (probably still sorned in cumbria with it's new owner)
peteracs
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« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2021, 08:48:03 PM »

Hi Chris

If you need any pins let me know as I have a few spare after my rekeying exploits.

Peter
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Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Saab 9-3 1.9Tid Cabrio
frankxhv773t
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« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2021, 09:01:49 PM »

Getting in the professionals sounds like a thorough approach. Looking at the repining thread I see the pins are rather more substantial than on later Fiat/Lancia locks.


* IMG_20210109_132057_674.jpg (384.26 KB, 1200x1600 - viewed 57 times.)
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