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Author Topic: Oil pump/ Big ends  (Read 1005 times)
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Nigel
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« on: April 25, 2020, 09:49:54 PM »

Hi all,
Today I removed the sump pan of my 84 HPE [in situ]

[The sump plug surround is leaking between it and the sump pan so i'm going to give it a weld all around.]

Inspection revealed some evidence of metal-making i.e. I found some light grey coloured sludge in the base of
the pan. So im inclined to replace the big-end shells while i'm down here. I haven't removed one yet,so I don't yet know
whether they are standard or not,But, is there a reliable supplier of new shells that you know of?

Also,while i'm here, the oil pump is worth checking I think. Wear is unlikely,I know, but can someone tell me the clearence
I should expect to find between the impellors? Or elsewhere?

Thanks all,
Nigel

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1984 2.0 Carb HPE [ex Aus] Silver
2007 Mazda 6 2.3 [current daily,highly recommended]
The past:
1980 2.0 HPE White in South Africa [hope it survives!]
1976 1.6 Coupe lancia Blu [PFG 76R] [probably deceased]
oh,and an Uno Turbo 1997 also in SA [stolen,never recovered]
peteracs
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« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2020, 10:10:11 PM »

Hi

Not sure if the later cars had a different oil pump, but the Haynes manual gives the impeller clearances for the early cars. I can look it up tomorrow if you do not have one.

Peter
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Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Saab 9-3 1.9Tid Cabrio
rossocorsa
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« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2020, 11:06:44 AM »

Take the pump off strip it including removing the mesh filter. I don't think there's much chance that it is worn badly. The bearings just source from a reputable make. 2 litre cranks can't really be reground successfully so it's most likely standard however on grounds of economy (if you are really unlucky) Fiat would recover faulty new crank castings by making one journal undersize! Do check for that
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Nigel
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« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2020, 05:16:19 PM »

Thanks to Peter and Alan.

Peter,yes i've now found the details in my Haynes!

Alan,there's no mesh on my pickup vessel that I can see. The pump is out and i'll be checking it later. [found the mesh,all clear!]

The bigend shells need replacing.Crank appears fine.
Are all 2 litre shells the same? I've found Glyco parts with various part numbers, but not the number
on my shell: 4376507

Best wishes
Nigel
« Last Edit: April 26, 2020, 05:45:51 PM by Nigel » Logged

1984 2.0 Carb HPE [ex Aus] Silver
2007 Mazda 6 2.3 [current daily,highly recommended]
The past:
1980 2.0 HPE White in South Africa [hope it survives!]
1976 1.6 Coupe lancia Blu [PFG 76R] [probably deceased]
oh,and an Uno Turbo 1997 also in SA [stolen,never recovered]
rossocorsa
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« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2020, 03:51:46 PM »

https://www.dropbox.com/s/df57olto0y8zoue/21pistons%20and%20conrods.JPG?dl=0

This page is S2FL2 2 litre, from what I can see on the web 4376507 is standard I can check my parts books when at home it's probably just a part number from an earlier series.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2020, 03:59:53 PM by rossocorsa » Logged
peteracs
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« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2020, 10:37:45 PM »

Hi

That shell nos is listed in my S2 pre f/l parts book as standard 2l part.

Peter
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Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Saab 9-3 1.9Tid Cabrio
WestonE
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« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2020, 08:37:22 AM »

Hi Nigel

Why are the bearings dead? What I am saying is strip inspect and check the oil pump tolerances or better send it to Guy Croft if he is available for a certified overhaul. Fit a baffled sump kit and consider an Accusump and oil cooler. Standard Beta sumps are terrible for oil surge away from the pump on corners. Use a high Quality Synthetic 10W 60 oil and a Mahle Filter. Possibly when you have it back together use a disposable oil and filter to clean it out. i.e. 500 miles max before using good oil and filter.

Consider a Race Tech capillary oil temp/ pressure gauge so you actually know the truth. Ditch the 14PSI low oil pressure switch for a 30PSI one. The OE Oil pressure gauge is slow and inaccurate at best. You will see the low oil pressure light oil hot engine idling with a 30PSI light AND see it go out with revs. Plus you can early warning of damage!

I have built many performance Beta engines this is hard won advice.

Eric     
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2020, 09:56:12 PM »

Do you have a source for the 30 psi oil pressure switch, Eric? Looked on the Monte Hospital site and nothing obvious jumped out, and GC seems to have taken down his parts list.
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
Neil-yaj396
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1979 1300 Coupe


« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2020, 07:24:09 AM »

Certainly a good chance to fit a baffled sump. Are you wanting to up the performance of you engine, or keep stock?
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WestonE
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« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2020, 08:14:41 AM »

Hi Graham

Demon Tweeks Merlin Motorsport Competition Supplies Etc it will have a 1/8NPT fitting so also buy the metric adapter. I do not remember which metric thread please check before ordering.

Eric
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Nigel
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« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2020, 01:35:18 PM »

Hi Nigel

Why are the bearings dead? What I am saying is strip inspect and check the oil pump tolerances or better send it to Guy Croft if he is available for a certified overhaul. Fit a baffled sump kit and consider an Accusump and oil cooler. Standard Beta sumps are terrible for oil surge away from the pump on corners. Use a high Quality Synthetic 10W 60 oil and a Mahle Filter. Possibly when you have it back together use a disposable oil and filter to clean it out. i.e. 500 miles max before using good oil and filter.

Consider a Race Tech capillary oil temp/ pressure gauge so you actually know the truth. Ditch the 14PSI low oil pressure switch for a 30PSI one. The OE Oil pressure gauge is slow and inaccurate at best. You will see the low oil pressure light oil hot engine idling with a 30PSI light AND see it go out with revs. Plus you can early warning of damage!

I have built many performance Beta engines this is hard won advice.

Eric    

Hi Eric,Neil,
At this stage i'm planning on keeping the engine standard, fed by the original carb. I have looked at the baffle kit on Marks site
and wonder whether this could be installed with a good arc welder,which is all I have.

I'd really like to install a reliable oil pressure monitor and i'll be looking at that Race Tech option.

I have now replaced the big end shells, due to first seeing smatterings of light grey sludge in the sump. Upon inspection,I found #'s 2 and 4
journal shells to have visible scoring. The journals themselves have a mirror-finish. As mentioned elsewhere,i'm quite happy to
do a full engine overhaul,but not just yet.

Edit to add: The oil pump checked out fine,cover removed and mesh all clean,pump gears in spec,and refitted with a new O ring.

I will certainly be using a good oil and i have a K&N filter to go on at the same time.

The existing sump pan is very badly scratched,and ideally i'd rather fit[or have fitted] a baffle kit to
a much better pan. The search is on!

Thanks for your collective wisdom.

Nigel
« Last Edit: May 03, 2020, 01:49:00 PM by Nigel » Logged

1984 2.0 Carb HPE [ex Aus] Silver
2007 Mazda 6 2.3 [current daily,highly recommended]
The past:
1980 2.0 HPE White in South Africa [hope it survives!]
1976 1.6 Coupe lancia Blu [PFG 76R] [probably deceased]
oh,and an Uno Turbo 1997 also in SA [stolen,never recovered]
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