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News: NEC Classic Car Show 12th-14th November 2021
http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4420.0
 
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Author Topic: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder  (Read 12758 times)
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WestonE
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« Reply #160 on: January 10, 2022, 07:14:46 PM »

Hi Chris

I built the OE loom from a complete but very tatty VX Loom. Measuring and noting the wires by colour  I then ordered thin wall modern cable using the fact it caries more load for its size to fix OE design issues. Finding the colours  involved multiple suppliers, but only 2 substitutions.

I swapped Tape for cable ties at key junctions and made it one wire at a time end to end each loom sections on a large IKEA table. This was after Auto Sparks sent it back as too difficult for them!

I used modern sealed connectors in vulnerable spots in the engine bay and Red thin wall in place of black and white for the fuse box feeds. NB Junior Timer sealing boots replaced the rotted OE rubber boots.

The ECU and additional fuse box wiring is in a large Excel because there is no OE Wiring diagram. Drive By Wire, Sequential Injection, Cruise Control, Knock Control and on Board Wide Band Lambda took me beyond entry level ECU's

So much time is lost working out where to run the extra wires.

Eric       
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WestonE
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« Reply #161 on: January 10, 2022, 07:29:13 PM »

Hi Peter

I have not used bulk head connectors. Instead I have fuse box connectors to allow the whole system to be stripped out with some re-termination if ever needed. I used the redundant LHD pedal box holes with grommets from the NEC show (Ford I Think). If I was doing a bulkhead connector for the ECU I would use the Clutch one. NB I have a VX/IE Power Steering Firewall.   

Things to watch out for when copying an OE Loom is that Thin wall cable is stiffer so harder to route and previous owners of the loom might have made it shorter to get clean connectors. Mixing Loom sections from different generations of cars is expert only head scratching stuff.

I still am not sure if the grey wire NS Boot feeds both IE Generation rear fog light for example. NB the fuse box has strange interconnect options on fog lights and an exterior relay wired into the mix.

Eric   
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #162 on: January 10, 2022, 07:54:58 PM »

Tremendous stuff, Eric. I understand that with the degree of non-standardness in your build that a custom loom was pretty much mandatory, but that doesn't lessen my admiration for the work you've done. I suspect you're blazing a trail here that many others will learn from and copy in the future. I know I will be referring back to these photos and build notes when I finally get round to doing something on a way more modest scale.

The cabin shot is particularly impressive/scary depending on which way you view it...
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
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peteracs
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« Reply #163 on: January 11, 2022, 12:06:45 AM »

Hi Eric

Thanks for the reply and the comment re thin wall, surprised it is stiffer, did not realise that or is that due to upping the rating from OE?

So if I understand you, the wiring going through the bulkhead is on one or more removable connectors at the fuse box which is/are separate to the wiring in the engine that are on different connectors attached to the fuse box?


Peter
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Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
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WestonE
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« Reply #164 on: January 11, 2022, 08:44:34 AM »

Peter

You are correct. I took time to group the new fuse box connections into cabin and engine bay before giving them Super seal connectors. I used spiral wrap because I could not know the wire lengths until they were run and it is not so obviously out of place in a classic as split convoluted tube. I am saving 1 bulkhead hole for the ECU to engine bay wires. I have deliberately brought the ECU to fusebox wires into the cabin where possible because warm and dry is better for wiring.

General principals are protect wire from movement, rubbing, heat water, ingress and fuse power supplies as close to source as possible.

Eric
PS plus tug test connections   
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peteracs
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« Reply #165 on: January 11, 2022, 10:47:34 AM »

Hi Eric

On reflection, I think trying to avoid the bulkhead connector would simplify and reduce later possible problems, provided I can easily unhook the cable in the engine bay, rather than the OE system on mine which is a complete abortion and almost impossible to do. At the end of the day I do not anticipate taking it out, but I would be a lot happier knowing I can do it without taking huge amounts apart to do it.

Peter
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Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Beta HPE S2 pre F/L 1600
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #166 on: January 11, 2022, 11:41:33 AM »

Hi Eric

Thanks for the reply and the comment re thin wall, surprised it is stiffer, did not realise that or is that due to upping the rating from OE?

Peter

Hi Peter,

From what I read, thin wall cable is stiffer because the sheathing is far more abrasion and cut resistant than the old sheathing and handles the rigours of automotive wiring far better. It's also supposed to be longer-lived, but I guess that will take time to prove.

Graham
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
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« Reply #167 on: January 11, 2022, 11:43:45 AM »

Hi Graham

Ok, that makes sense. I will start ordering some and see just how flexible it proves. In general probably not an issue apart from under dash where things get pretty tight.

Peter
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Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Beta HPE S2 pre F/L 1600
Saab 9-3 1.9Tid Cabrio
mangocrazy
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« Reply #168 on: January 11, 2022, 11:48:55 AM »

My (albeit limited) experience with it is that it doesn't take a 'set' in the same way the old stuff does. I think in use it's helpful to provide as many anchor points as possible, but I'm sure Eric can confirm or deny this. But the extra load capacity is very welcome. I beleive it came into being because OE manufacturers wanted the impossible - lighter weight cabling that had a higher load capacity. And they got it...
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
WestonE
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« Reply #169 on: January 11, 2022, 06:56:38 PM »

Hi Graham

I have a wide selection of large Stainless P Clips but still use the OE Cabin mounts for them. I kept OE engine bay loom under the structural beams on the sides just like the factory and used factory push in clips. The runs from DS to NS across the front use push on cable tie mounts because I have the radiator further forward to maximize room for things like the large K&N Air Filter box, Remote Oil Filter and Oil Stat.   

Eric
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Nigel
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« Reply #170 on: January 11, 2022, 10:02:43 PM »

Hi Eric,
I was surprised to see the inclusion of the original fuse box, especially
in its original location.
Knowing what it looks like inside, it doesn't look like an Eric thing.

Cheers, Nigel
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1984 2.0 Carb HPE [ex Aus] Silver..turning to Grey Finanza.
2007 Mazda 6 2.3 [current daily, highly recommended]
The past:
1980 2.0 HPE White in South Africa [hope it survives!]
1976 1.6 Coupe Lancia Blu [PFG 76R] [probably deceased]
oh,and an Uno Turbo 1997 also in SA [stolen,never recovered]
WestonE
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« Reply #171 on: January 12, 2022, 09:00:40 AM »

Hi Nigel

Because I had a NOS Fuse Box and most are still working on cars after 40 years of abuse I went with it. They get damaged mostly by external loom faults and I will be fitting a heat shield to stop the exhaust baking the wires hard. If I wanted more torture I could re-wire the internals with thin wall, but not on my list!

Eric
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #172 on: January 13, 2022, 06:04:17 PM »

On the subject of cable ties and cable tie fittings, there is a supplier only a couple of miles away from me called 'Cable Ties Direct', and as their name would indicate, they have an extensive range of cable ties and fittings. Here's a link to their online catalogue:

https://cableties-direct.co.uk/catalogue/
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
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