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Author Topic: Dead ignition? - not a good start to the day.  (Read 3150 times)
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MattNoVAT
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« on: August 13, 2009, 08:51:13 AM »

Recently my cars ignition has been giving me a few problem, I would turn the key to throw the starter motor and I would get a loud audible "click" but it wouldn't turn over, this would happen a few times and then she would fire up as normal when the key was turned fully.

Last week I jumped in to go for a drive and turned the key and..... nothing, not even the click.  So I turned the key a few times and bingo the engine fired up.  Today, after getting up early, feeding my daughter and organising my wife to follow me down to the painters I now find myself with a complete non starter, no matter what I do.  This went down very well with the wife who asked the usual blatantly obvious question " is something wrong?"

So, my assumption is the ignition barrel has worn to the point where its failed to make contact completely.
Before I go buying ignition barrels/keys I thought I'd check first.

I have fully power in the battery, ignition comes on when key is turned but when you turn it fully to fire up - nothing happens.

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1981 2000 Coupe S2/FL
1976 1600 Coupe S1

Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car. Oversteer is when you hit the wall with the back of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you send the wall across the field once youve hit it.
HFStuart
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« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2009, 09:49:11 AM »

I've had similar symptoms from a poor engine earth strap and (believe it or not) a starter motor that had come loose.

Worth a quick check.
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MattNoVAT
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« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2009, 09:50:31 AM »

I know the earth strap is fine because I recently replaced it. And double checked it this morning.

Starter Motor is rock solid and all cables / wires in good order.

My Hawk Stratos uses the Beta ignition so will swap them over tonight and see if that resolves, if it does then I'll just replace the Strats ignition barrel.  Someone from the Strat club had an almost identical issue recently and thats what makes me think its a worn barrel/contact.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2009, 10:01:35 AM by MattNoVAT » Logged

1981 2000 Coupe S2/FL
1976 1600 Coupe S1

Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car. Oversteer is when you hit the wall with the back of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you send the wall across the field once youve hit it.
RickyJ
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« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2009, 02:53:19 PM »

Matt

Not that it's of any help but I'd definately say that the ignition switch is a weak point - I've had 2 die and the current one only half works. I've had to wire in a toggle switch to turn the ignition On and then use the key to crank the starter. Whats annoying is that it was a Brand New switch about 4 years ago.

I've had the same problem you're getting where you can hear the Solenoid "click" but no Cranking when you turn the key fuly round - I've had to do this several times before the thing would start and seem to recall (whether here or on Lancisti) there was some sort of wiring fix for this involving a relay. Not 100% sure but it does seem to ring a bell.
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RickyJ
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« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2009, 03:02:54 PM »

Just had a look on Lancisti and found this -

http://www.lancisti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=672&highlight=ignition+relay
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lanciamad
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Marcus Robinson


« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2009, 07:31:55 PM »

I'm not to sure whether it is a fix, as all the relay will do is act as a another switch where the wire from the ignition barrel is now switching the relay and not the solenoid of the starter motor; but yes less current will run through the wire off the ignition barrel. (I maybe wrong Huh?) When i first had my HPE with plenty of electrical problems that was one of the things i got rid of, as my personal opinion was that it is another thing that can go wrong, the cars never had such item fitted from new and if somethings wrong then the item whether it is ignition barrel or starter motor will be replaced, and not things done which in the end may still not solve the problem. Shocked
As you've said, if you fit an ignition barrel you know is fully working and the problems solved, that would be it, if not could be the starter. On my delta i had it where it would click and click and click then would engage to start the car, and that was purely the starter; i regualarly used the car and have done for the last 30k miles in 2 years and it starts everytime first time Smiley
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1982 - Lancia Beta HPE 2000ie - Track - http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=472.0
1988 - Lancia Delta HF Turbo - Sorn - http://www.lanciasport.com/forum/index.php?topic=2585.0
1989 - Lancia Delta 1300 LX - Sorn
1988 - BMW E30 325i - Track
2005 - Subaru Forester XT STI - Road
MattNoVAT
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« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2009, 10:55:16 PM »

Progress so far is that I have bought another ignition.  But waiting for that to arrive.

Took the ignition barrel from my Hawk build and tried that, fired first turn.  Grin

I also have a spare starter motor and will monitor and see if issue (or similar) occur again, if it does then I'll try the other starter motor and see what happens then.

Thanks for the tips :-)
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1981 2000 Coupe S2/FL
1976 1600 Coupe S1

Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car. Oversteer is when you hit the wall with the back of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you send the wall across the field once youve hit it.
mtulloch
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« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2009, 12:45:09 PM »


As another check, I had this problem on my VX and traced it to the circular (8 way I think), black connector which was directly below the distributer. I cleaned all the connectors, re-routed it to above the distributer away from the heat and it's been ok ever since.

The igniton switches themselves are fairly easy to strip and clean up too.
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rossocorsa
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« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2009, 10:58:19 PM »

I had this on an injection coupe and it was the starter carried  hammer and a suitable bar to wack the starter with as it always failed when hot such as outside the newsagents when I'd stopped to buy a paper, these days people might get the wrong idea if they found a long piece of metal and a large hammer in the boot ...unless they know Italian electrics  Grin

those barrel shaped connectors are a nightmare too but I'm not sure if carb cars had them or not around the time of the S2FL2 coupé/HPE all Betas seemed to gain a lot of 'improvements' electrically culminating in the infamous Trevi fusebox
« Last Edit: August 14, 2009, 11:01:39 PM by rossocorsa » Logged
hutch6610
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« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2009, 10:20:09 PM »

All the range had the round (barrel) connectors / wiring block from carb right up to IE/VX.
So long as they were kept greased with that white silicone grease used under the fuse box (or any other grease for that matter) they were fine.

long piece of metal and hammer came as part of the cars original tool kit .... honest officer!
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MattNoVAT
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« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2009, 11:19:51 PM »

long piece of metal and hammer came as part of the cars original tool kit .... honest officer!
Haha thats so true Hutch, back in 1990 when I lived in Windsor, I was pulled over in my Lord Blu Beta Coupe (ALH 555 Y), which had an iffy starter motor, when the police found a 2 foot length of wooden curtain pole in the car I was told I was going to be arrested for possession of an offensive weapon. I told the police about my dodgy starter motor and to check both the ends of the wood and also look at the marks on the starter itself. The officer said if my story checked out I would be free to go.  So, he put keys back in the ignition and ........... click !!

Phew, what a relief !!!!  Only time I've been grateful for the car not to wanting to start !  The Copper handed me the pole, I gave the starter a healthy whack and asked him to turn the key again..... Broom !!!!!!!

At least he had a sense of humour about it - but still advised me to get my car fixed !
« Last Edit: August 16, 2009, 09:23:43 AM by MattNoVAT » Logged

1981 2000 Coupe S2/FL
1976 1600 Coupe S1

Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car. Oversteer is when you hit the wall with the back of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you send the wall across the field once youve hit it.
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