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Author Topic: Re:brake caliper sliders  (Read 525 times)
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Dinger1962
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« on: January 13, 2019, 10:28:48 PM »

Am ready to re assemble my calipers not sure what to lube slider plates with --am guessing copperslip or a graphite based grease any info welcome --thanks in advance Stu--
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HFStuart
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« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2019, 10:54:36 PM »

I've always used coppaslip and not had any problems
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rossocorsa
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« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2019, 09:19:04 PM »

There's a line of thinking these days that says copper grease can cause issues on some calipers, I haven't tried it yet but ceramic grease is what some recommend.

https://textar-professional.com/textar-training-center/the-use-of-copper-grease-on-modern-brakes/
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2019, 07:03:17 PM »

If copper grease migrates to the seals, it may damage them. It all depends on how much you use, I guess. Also copper grease is not particularly slippery, although it does persist very well - swings and roundabouts I guess. If I was staying with standard Beta brakes, I would get the caliper carriers, sliders and cast iron mounts all plated in electroless nickel. It's very corrosion resistant and very lubricious (i.e. slippy). I think that would give minimum friction on the sliding surfaces, which is basically what you want.
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squiglyzigly
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« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2019, 04:48:32 PM »

I have been using copperslip on Beta calipers for years without problem. I dont see where the Galvanic reaction can take place on the Beta caliper sliding faces because the brake pad cage is cast iron, the sliding blocks with securing pins the same and so is the caliper sliding cage. I have never experienced corrosion between these three components all of which are iron. The hydraulic piston housing is alloy but that is on the end of the iron sliding cage away from the area to be lubricated for sliding. I have often seen a Galvanic reaction between the alloy piston housing and the iron sliding cage as a result of road salt/grime etc but that is to be expected as they are assembled in the factory dry without any anti-corrosive barrier.

If you look at many fiat calipers such as 128, x1/9 front, 131 and so on, they do have a problem with Galvanic reaction because the whole hydraulic piston and slider assembly is one-piece cast alloy sliding against iron sliding blocks and iron pad carrier, bolted to the iron hub carrier. That is a problem for sure.

But the Beta has never had a problem with copperslip from my experience.
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squiglyzigly
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« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2019, 04:50:35 PM »

Just to add to that, am I correct in thinking the Montecarlo front calipers are one piece cast alloy? If so, add them to the list of calipers that can suffer galvanic reaction.
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2019, 06:49:33 PM »

It wasn't so much the possibility of galvanic corrosion that was behind my suggestion, more a case of trying to a) reduce the possibility of general surface corrosion and b) give the surfaces that need to slide across each other a low-friction coating. It's only a suggestion and not one that I've tried (yet), so it doesn't have the weight of practical experience behind it.

As you say, copperslip has been used successfully for years in this application, and provided it's not slathered on shouldn't cause a problem. If there was enough applied to migrate and attack seals, realistically it would wind up on the pad surface as well, with interesting results...
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
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rossocorsa
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« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2019, 11:22:49 AM »

Probably applies more to modern cars but having said that beta brakes are pretty modern in design really. I have an Abarth 595 and they suffer from squeaky brakes, if people complain under warranty a lot of dealers seem to copperslip them but it makes it worse!
« Last Edit: January 19, 2019, 05:55:14 PM by rossocorsa » Logged
squiglyzigly
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« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2019, 09:11:21 AM »

I donít believe the beta calipers slide very much under braking. Probably less than 1mm and quite slowly. The sliding mechanism is as much for pad wear compensation as it is to facilitate even pad application during braking. The brake calipers probably flex more than 1mm under medium application. Greasing the sliders is probably more about resisting corrosion and seizing than it is for brake performance.

Just a thought.
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Beta coupť VX (completed April 2017)
Beta Saloon 2000 s2 1979 (in progress)
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2019, 04:45:28 PM »

I donít believe the beta calipers slide very much under braking. Probably less than 1mm and quite slowly. The sliding mechanism is as much for pad wear compensation as it is to facilitate even pad application during braking. The brake calipers probably flex more than 1mm under medium application. Greasing the sliders is probably more about resisting corrosion and seizing than it is for brake performance.

Just a thought.
I agree there won't be much movement, although I wouldn't like to put a figure on it. But single piston sliding caliper designs rely on the caliper being able to slide (the clue is in the name) to equalise pressure between the pads. It also equalises wear between pads when it's working correctly but when the mechanism binds then braking force is reduced, and as a consequence only one pad wears. I'm of the opinion that anything that allows free sliding movement of the caliper is beneficial, and grease facilitates that, surely? I'd say that maintaining performance, and keeping the mechanism corrosion-free are inextricably linked.
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
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rossocorsa
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« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2019, 06:17:48 PM »

As ceramic grease isn't all that expensive it seems pointless to stick with copper grease purely on grounds of tradition.
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squiglyzigly
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« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2019, 08:59:29 PM »

Why stop there? (Did you see what Iíve done there?)
Proslip make a triple lubrication kit. Pad, clip and slider.
If you donít like copperslip and want to do it properly.

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Beta coupť VX (completed April 2017)
Beta Saloon 2000 s2 1979 (in progress)
Aprilia RSVR 2002
Aprilia Tuono R (130 rear wheel BHP) mad as a box of frogs
Alfa 159 sportwagon
rossocorsa
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« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2019, 10:03:20 PM »

Why stop there? (Did you see what Iíve done there?)
Proslip make a triple lubrication kit. Pad, clip and slider.
If you donít like copperslip and want to do it properly.


Yes that looks interesting, it's not that I don't like copper slip is just there seems too be strong evidence not to use it for brakes etc.
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2019, 10:31:35 PM »

That looks very interesting stuff - I'd use that in preference to copperslip. Most of the types of copperslip I've seen are quite thick and not ideal for caliper pins or sliders, even without the dangers of seal or boot damage. The best I've used is made by Wurth, but even that will not be friendly to rubber components.
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
squiglyzigly
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« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2019, 09:38:17 AM »

Itís worth remembering that caliper seal attack is more often caused by split/leaky driveshaft boots than copperslip usage. When a cv boot lets go, thereís a large amount of grease thrown at the back side of the caliper and the seal usually cops it.
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Beta coupť VX (completed April 2017)
Beta Saloon 2000 s2 1979 (in progress)
Aprilia RSVR 2002
Aprilia Tuono R (130 rear wheel BHP) mad as a box of frogs
Alfa 159 sportwagon
mangocrazy
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« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2019, 11:23:12 AM »

True. And the quantities of grease involved are much larger.
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
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