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News: BetaMeeta20 12th September 2020
http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4080.0
 
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Author Topic: Beta Coupe GCRE upgrade  (Read 10891 times)
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #60 on: February 14, 2020, 10:57:54 PM »

Hi Graham

Those are modular MTA units some with micro relays. You can see the Durite part number but you can can get them from Pole Volt, Vehicle Wiring Products and others. Designing the scheme is harder than wiring them. But no body yet chose wiring as a party event.

Cheers

Eric     
Cheers Eric, I've used VWP from their pre-Internet days, so will have a look through their stock. Yes, buying the stuff is the easy bit - designing a wiring loom needs to be undertaken with no distractions, otherwise toys end up being thrown out of the pram...
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« Reply #61 on: February 14, 2020, 11:05:28 PM »

Hi Graham

Those are modular MTA units some with micro relays. You can see the Durite part number but you can can get them from Pole Volt, Vehicle Wiring Products and others. Designing the scheme is harder than wiring them. But no body yet chose wiring as a party event.

Cheers

Eric     
Cheers Eric, I've used VWP from their pre-Internet days, so will have a look through their stock. Yes, buying the stuff is the easy bit - designing a wiring loom needs to be undertaken with no distractions, otherwise toys end up being thrown out of the pram...

Graham
Iíll try and dig out the stock reference for you if needed but Iím away for a few days and canít give you a proper answer now.
Chris
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« Reply #62 on: February 15, 2020, 12:14:30 AM »

Graham
Iíll try and dig out the stock reference for you if needed but Iím away for a few days and canít give you a proper answer now.
Chris
Cheers Chris.

Graham
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« Reply #63 on: February 15, 2020, 10:52:17 AM »

What plans have you got for opening/closing the accusump valve?

Ian

I'll probably leave it shut while I'm bedding in the new engine; apart from the benefit of a bit of pressure lubrication as electrical power comes on, it shouldn't be required... I do plan to take everything steady for a while!  Once I've got a few miles on the engine, it'll be time to get the acusump operating before I start throwing the car around a bit.

Chris

Makes good sense, I presume you have the electric solenoid valve to open/close?

Cheers
Ian
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« Reply #64 on: February 15, 2020, 01:38:00 PM »

In a word - Yes.  

Having fitted Guy's latest pattern baffled sump, I thought long and hard about whether or not to bother with an accumulator but after over 30 years of accepting the Beta's very variable oil pressure, I didn't want to risk starving the new engine when cornering!  And as if I needed more convincing, it was the electric solenoid adding pre-lube that finally sold an Acusump system to me.

The photo below was taken at GCRE as we planned the system.  The labelling should be pretty obvious but RFH is Remote Filter Housing (represented by the filter box on the table) and the system includes the new sandwich plate and cooler.

Chris


* IMG_5244.jpeg (365.94 KB, 1280x807 - viewed 306 times.)
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« Reply #65 on: February 16, 2020, 05:35:42 PM »

I am installing an Accusump on my Beta Spyder VX project and already run one on my Montecarlo . I recommend an electrical turn off switch well labeled. It helps with servicing and holding oil in the Accusump when you are just turning the ignition on not starting the car.

I have baffled sumps in both cars.

Eric   
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« Reply #66 on: February 16, 2020, 07:05:47 PM »

Have installed mine as Eric says. Simply fitted an electric servo arm onto the original valve. Love being able to pre-oil before start-up.


* C1C9D5E8-4FDC-4083-A5AC-176749D6A75F.jpeg (480.86 KB, 1280x1280 - viewed 283 times.)
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Beta coupť VX (completed April 2017)
Beta Saloon 2000 s2 1979 (completed July 2020)
Aprilia RSVR 2002
Aprilia Tuono R (130 rear wheel BHP)
Alfa 159 sportwagon jtd eco (slower than a courgette)
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« Reply #67 on: February 17, 2020, 04:19:42 PM »

Eric, Ian,

Ref components in my layout picture: do you mean a further electric servo to replace the valve with the yellow handle?

Chris
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« Reply #68 on: February 17, 2020, 07:17:19 PM »

Hi Chris I have the original Accusump Electric valve you have which allows oil to enter the unit when there is enough extra pressure and will release it when it senses a pressure drop. Turning it off stops it releasing oil under pressure back into the system. Your second physical valve stops oil entering or leaving. So good if you do not want any running in oil getting to the Accusump.

I have not seen the set up Ian has before, but it looks like an electric valve head on the manual valve so I would guess he can turn it fully off and leave it to fill and respond in line with oil pressure when switched on.

They are far cheaper than running the bearings and trashing the crank or throwing a con rod through the crank case!

Mine got good use in the Alps on the Turino trip!

Cheers

Eric       
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« Reply #69 on: February 17, 2020, 08:36:34 PM »

Eric
Thanks, I understand and am happy that Iíve not missed something. Iíll certainly keep it isolated for running in.
Alps would be fun though!
Chris
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« Reply #70 on: May 07, 2020, 09:05:37 AM »

Everything is taking longer than I thought.  What recently started out as a dash rebuild, so I could have a 10,000rpm RaceTech gauge (to match the oil and water), turned into a bit of a faff! But... I now have a nearly matching set of instruments arranged in an eye-pleasing fashion.

Fitting the air-box to the Webers was as tricky as expected.  In the end, I bought a fibreglass moulded box that was from a '70s Hillman Hunter; apart from being bright orange (sorry Tim but I'll have to change that) it has just the right internal space for proper breathing using a set of short Weber trumpets.  Interestingly, my preparer, Mark, is still very concerned about carb icing when just using the Beta 'normally'.  As we know, there is no water heated jacket around the GC manifold and despite Guy's insistence that I feed the carbs cold air Mark can see trouble ahead; as such, we're planning to route the air-box breather snout on a flexi that could sit either towards the rear of the engine bay 'hot', or, to the front 'cold'.  I'm going to put another post about icing on the Carburettor page; I can't find any earlier comments of icing so it's either not a problem on a Beta or we don't understand it.

As more stuff goes in the engine bay, we've had to re-look at some pipework for the oil system which has resulted in removing the manual valve from the Accusump.  The electric valve seems to do everything we need so unless anyone (Eric?) knows of a good reason why I need it, it'll be gone.

There remain a number of small jobs before MOT but at least the car's running now and with good oil pressure!  Next on the list will be to modify the support bracket to span 4-branches at the lower part of the exhaust manifold.     
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« Reply #71 on: May 07, 2020, 09:37:12 AM »

Chris,

I'm no expert on carb icing but given where they sit on a Beta I'd be really surprised  - it's not like they're perched on top of the head. Good to take precautions I suppose.

The orange airbox just won't do.We only have one beta from dixie in this group Smiley
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« Reply #72 on: May 30, 2020, 11:33:19 AM »

Good progress this week.  Engine Bay is now complete and the dash is fitted and fully functional.



* Beta Eng Bay (420.57 KB, 1280x837 - viewed 156 times.)

* Beta Dash (249.78 KB, 1280x660 - viewed 157 times.)
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« Reply #73 on: May 30, 2020, 02:29:54 PM »

Hi Chris, Nice work! Who supplied the radiator that you are using? A custom built one, while more costly, is always going to make better use of the space than one that is modified to suit. And that Accusump takes up a fair bit of space...
« Last Edit: May 30, 2020, 02:35:40 PM by mangocrazy » Logged

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« Reply #74 on: May 31, 2020, 02:38:58 PM »

Graham
The custom radiator became the only way to go.  I'd read about others using Ford Focus ST170 units so we ordered one but it is the wrong shape and we just couldn't get it to fit.  We spec'd the alloy core based on what would fit then it was built up at my local garage and sits behind a Spal fan. 
Finding a location for the Accusump was a challenge; c/w valves and pipes, it does take a lot of space and I really didn't want it to be too exposed to debris by putting it too low in the engine bay.  Still... it works, and we're nearly there now!
Chris
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« Reply #75 on: May 31, 2020, 03:04:34 PM »

OK, that's interesting. I guess you mounted the fan in front of the rad to give yourself a bit more room for the airbox? Space is certainly at a premium in the engine bay. I've purchased one of the Monte Hospital airboxes (without knowing how much space it will take up). I suspect I'll be following you down the custom radiator route. I like the idea of the Accusump but as I've no intention to track-day the car, I'll just stick with a baffled sump. But I will be fitting a proper oil pressure sender and gauge.
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« Reply #76 on: June 17, 2020, 06:42:50 PM »

Nice engine!!!
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« Reply #77 on: June 21, 2020, 09:27:43 AM »

Weíre back on the road.  MOT was a couple of weeks ago then itís been a final few jobs before the testing and bedding in began.

I spent a day with Mark and his team at Automark in Stokesley www.automarkuk.com on Wednesday while we talked through the re-wiring and carb adjustments, checked the ignition timing and set the front wheel tracking.  The engine had been first run a couple of weeks ago; filled with mineral oil and with a couple of gallons of Shell V-Power, GCRE provided an initial start guide which was followed to the letter.  After a few pumps on the throttle, the engine fires up beautifully; itís nice to feel your adding some oil pressure too by opening the electric valve on the Accusump before cranking.

Getting going was not smooth and the carbs popped and spluttered a bit until the revs come up.  Mark suggested changing the F16 emulsion tubes to F11 for a quick fettle and it certainly made things better for now.  Itíll get a proper set up when it has the first oil change.  Once on the road, the engine pulls well up to our imposed 4000rpm limit and all engine instruments are working as they should; the gearchange is much better, having fitted the Betaboyz linkage kit, but the ride on the shorter springs was ridiculously firm.

Back at the garage and up on the ramp we realised why the suspension was so firmÖ weíd been virtually sitting on the bump-stops at the front!  It was then I recalled reading something Eric had posted about cutting the front bump-stops in half, so with tin snips in hand we removed about 30mm.  What a difference!   

Over the last couple of days, Iíve clocked around 150mls.  Iím keeping my eyes and ears on everything.  The sensor for the electronic speedo gave a bit of hassle early on but slight adjustment has fettled that; otherwise, Iíve had a couple of excursions to 4500rpm but have not yet used more than half throttle.  Steady away.  Iím keeping an eye on the plugs too and they look fine.

GCRE recommend 500mls before the first oil change but Mark is keen to change it sooner.  Heís rightly concerned about build debris, but I have faith in Guy so I think Iíll find a compromise and stick with the old mineral running-in oil for a bit longer; once changed, and on to something fully synthetic, Iím looking forward to opening up those carbs a bit more. 

Chris
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« Reply #78 on: June 21, 2020, 10:56:27 AM »

Hi Chris

Great news and good to know something I wrote yeas ago helped! I would check compression over all cylinders before changing the oil (hot throttle wide open). You want to be sure the rings are bedded in fully. Short bursts to 6,000 under load might be needed.

You are looking for even compression figures i.e. within 5% across cylinders with a strong jump in the first 3 turns. Normally counting to 10 in elephants does the job.

Battery and starter condition matter for this.

If you decide to add oil to check wet seal do not add a lot and expect epic smoke when you re-start the engine afterwards. Your neighbors will not love you until it clears.

Enjoy

Eric 
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« Reply #79 on: June 21, 2020, 06:06:01 PM »

On the occasions I have a new engine to run in, I change the mineral (running in) oil and filter at around 100-150 miles, just to clear out any build debris. Then I refill with more mineral oil and leave that in until running in is complete (anywhere between 600-1000 miles), after which it's new fully synthetic oil and filter. This regime costs you an extra fill of oil and a filter, but covers all bases to my mind.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2020, 10:16:13 PM by mangocrazy » Logged

1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
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