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Author Topic: Assembling Betaboyz gear linkage parts  (Read 1135 times)
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mangocrazy
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« on: June 18, 2018, 08:33:31 PM »

I've just bought the modified gear linkage rod, studs and bushes from Betaboyz (very quick turnround - thanks Mark!) and having them in my hand now I'm wondering how to assemble them. Looking at the studs and bushes I'm scratching my head to see how the two would be assembled together. It will obviously involve a press (or at least a vice), but I'd be afraid of breaking the nylon bush if too much force was used. Hs anyone done this and have any tips or tricks to pass on?

The linkage is suppllied as one piece, but I'd want to get substantial amounts of grease into the ball and socket joints. Do people just use a grease gun and expect it all to get a bit messy, or is it better to disassemble the ball and socket joints and pack the socket with grease?

Lastly what grease would be people's preference for both sets of bushes/sockets? I've used this grease before on motorcycle suspension bushes and bearings, as it has excellent anti-corrosion properties as well as good lubrication properties:

http://www.acf-50.co.uk/acrobat/CB%20GREASE%20New%20and%20Improved.png
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 10:39:11 PM by mangocrazy » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2018, 08:59:04 PM »

Hi

You should have installation instructions with the kit?

I assume you have the kit which is made by John in the US?

See

http://www.fiatlancia.us

If so he does not recommend grease on the large bushes. I used a vice to press the balls into the large bushes from memory. Not got to the point of greasing the small ball joints. I found some of the larger balls were quite corroded and hence smaller than original, fortunately I had a choice of changer mechanisms as had scrapped a couple of cars.

Peter

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« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2018, 09:14:25 PM »

I'm looking to do this on our car this soon. it's currently the biggest annoyance with the car as it is. We have a pit so get decent access from below, but i'm not sure how I would tackle when I get the bits. There seems to be slop in the two bushes on the idler, maybe a little on the small balljoints. The centre pivot has a little vertical movement: would this be the center pivot bush available from the shop?
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2018, 10:35:13 PM »

Hi

You should have installation instructions with the kit?

I assume you have the kit which is made by John in the US?

See

http://www.fiatlancia.us

If so he does not recommend grease on the large bushes. I used a vice to press the balls into the large bushes from memory. Not got to the point of greasing the small ball joints. I found some of the larger balls were quite corroded and hence smaller than original, fortunately I had a choice of changer mechanisms as had scrapped a couple of cars.

Peter

Guilty of not reading the destructions... Sad As the parts will be heading to France I just put them in the box marked 'stuff for France' and didn't look at the piece of paper included... One thing I did notice is that the part sold by Betaboyz is not the same spec as that sold by John Montgomery. John's part uses high quality rose joints, the Betaboyz part uses ball and socket joints. I'm sure the Betaboyz part will probably outlive my usage of the car though. But I think I will pack it with grease, unlike the larger bushes and sockets. Any reason why John specifically recommends against grease in the larger bushes?
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« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2018, 08:33:21 AM »

Hi Graham

Put some waterproof cycle grease inside the nylon cups and use G clamps or water pump pliers to squeeze them nylon cups onto the pivots. This will transform the gear shift.

Eric 
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2018, 02:00:47 PM »

Thanks Eric. Did you see my link to the Corrosion Block grease earlier in the thread? I think it would be ideal in this application, as one of the problems I've seen is the ball joints get rusty and bind/tear the nylon cups. I was going to use the vice I have on the bench for this. It's a nice chunky Record 35P so would make short work of that job.
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« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2018, 07:27:00 PM »

Hi Graham

The rose joint version is a recent thing, the old version (I bought mine around 2 years or so ago direct from him) used small ball joints, there is probably a picture on the web. From what I remember he did not recommend grease as he felt the grease would degrade the nylon bush.

Peter
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« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2018, 10:06:01 PM »

Hi Peter,

Thanks for that info. It all seems a bit 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' as regards greasing the nylon bushes. Without grease the steel balls will corrode quicker, with grease there's the possibility of damage to the bushes. I suspect that finding the correct grease will be key to a long life for both components...
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« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2018, 10:27:49 AM »

Does anyone have any idea as to how long it would take to replace these bushes,  using the kit supplied by
Betaboyz
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« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2018, 11:36:42 AM »

Hi

I did mine with many components out of the car, so cannot say it took me X hours, but at a guess with adjustment allow 3 hours? Anyone else willing to commit a time?

Peter
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« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2018, 03:41:45 PM »

Hi all,

I'm now down in France, with the car on ramps and stuck in first gear. The ball joint on one end of the (puny) OE Lancia short linkage rod had popped out of its retaining bush, which is cracked and useless. I've managed to get the remains of the OE linkage rod out, but the offending ball joint is still attached to the large rod which connects to the gear lever and I cannot see any way of detaching that part in situ.

When replacing the short linkage rod (I have the replacement Betaboyz part with me) is it necessary to remove the long rod from inside the car to do this? I can't see any way of fitting both ends of the replacement short rod from under the car. One end, yes - both ends, no...

If anyone has done this job I'd be grateful of any tips you may have.
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« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2018, 05:10:01 PM »

Just had the Betaboyz kit fitted by my local garage. They appear to have installed them all from under the car,  they certainly hadn't disturbed the long rod from inside.
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2018, 05:14:17 PM »

Thanks Ammy. I imagine that with a 4 post lift (or a deep pit) it would be a minor inconvenience. Underneath a set of (fairly low) ramps it's going to be a king-size PITA, I think...
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« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2018, 07:43:48 PM »

It was pretty much as I suspected - hard slog and lots of profanity, bruised arms and knuckles and aching knees and shoulders (but the last two are mainly to do with age...) It took a fair amount of time to remove the detached ball joint, and even more to get the replacement linkage in place. And when I had just about tightened the first arm up (laboriously tightening the nut by a quarter turn each time - no room for a ratchet spanner), I realised that the 11mm spanner I was using to stop the ball from rotating was tight up against the ball joint, and there was still thread left. So my last task for the night was to take a hapless 11mm open ended spanner and grind it down with a flap wheel to make it slim enough to complete the job.

No-one ever said it would be easy. And it wasn't...
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
mangocrazy
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« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2018, 11:06:03 AM »

The new gear linkage parts had their first road test today and performed very well (with one exception). Gear selection seemed noticeably more positive and precise, but I wasn't able to select 5th gear. This wasn't really a problem in the small lanes around the village as fourth was sufficient, but it will need to be fixed.

I deliberately adjusted the linkage length to match that of the flimsy original it replaced, but does anyone know whether I should go longer or shorter on the rod adjustment? And I really, really hope that the adjustment can be performed without dismantling the whole thing again...

First to fourth gear and reverse are all easily selectable, although third isn't quite as positive as the other gears and tends to snick home rather than slot smoothly into position.
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
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2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
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« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2018, 04:24:27 PM »

Hi Graham

Try here

http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2185.0

Peter
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« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2018, 09:39:53 PM »

Hi Peter,

So the adjustment is on the front linkage by the gearbox, not on the linkage between the two heavy duty rods at the back of the engine?

The replacement linkage I've fitted (the one at the back of the engine) has a lot of adjustment, but I set it so that overall length was as close to OE as I could determine. I was expecting that I would need to adjust that linkage, not the one close to the gearbox itself.

I'll check to see in which direction gear lever movement is compromised. I suspect that it will be 'right swing' according to the manual page you posted.
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« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2018, 09:47:19 AM »

Measuring the gear stick movement is difficult,   knowing how much pressure you're putting against the spring,   to move it.  As the adjustment is not too difficult,  I found that adjusting by  "trial and error" is probably the easiest way.
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« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2018, 09:41:42 PM »

Hi Graham

Sorry not at the point of adjusting it yet, so will have leave to others to answer.

Peter
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« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2018, 10:43:44 PM »

Measuring the gear stick movement is difficult,   knowing how much pressure you're putting against the spring,   to move it.  As the adjustment is not too difficult,  I found that adjusting by  "trial and error" is probably the easiest way.
Ammy, did you adjust using the linkage under the battery tray or the one at the back of the engine that links the two big, long rods? The new Betaboyz rose-jointed linkage has plenty of adjustment, so I might man up and get under the car again and try fiddling with that...
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
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