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Author Topic: Cometic MLS Head Gaskets  (Read 4366 times)
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WestonE
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« on: January 05, 2017, 06:38:04 PM »

This is just to let you know I am working directly with Cometic developing MLS (Multi Layer Steel) Gaskets for the Montecarlo/Beta engine. MLS Gasket are a huge step forward in gasket technology over even the best resin options currently available and they are used on all modern Turbo diesel engines which have to survive huge pressures for very high mileage.

I will have the Mylar design template back in January for adjustment/checking then pricing and availability will be confirmed.

These gasket are NOT the same as the reverse port head Cometic MLS gaskets and they will be in 2 forms i.e. normal and high compression 1.5mm thick form. They will allow reliable engine builds up to high pressure turbo charged builds and options for higher compression without new pistons.

Watch this space.

Eric     
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2017, 04:09:55 PM »

Excellent stuff, Eric. I presume that one of these gaskets when available would be suitable for my modest N/A Spider engine rebuild?

Graham
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WestonE
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« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2017, 10:33:05 AM »

Hi Graham

Yes indeed provided you have a faced block, clean flat head face and have carefully cleaned out the head bolt threads in the block. The other must do is to have a top rail heater pass through or H section in the heater pipes. This removes the heater off limited flow at number 4 cylinder end of the head flaw that Fiat Lancia removed themselves on Beta IE VX Strada and Deltas.
Obviously new bolts or studs are required and stretch bolts from Tipo Diesel/ Integrale work with MLS gaskets as will GC's 12.9 bolts or Delta Parts 10mm ARP studs.

People hoping to "Get Away With" using a new gasket with a warped head and or dirty/ corroded heads and blocks and old bolts in corroded block threads will end up having to do it all again properly. I am making the point here because some people still think a cheap eBay resin gasket with the old head bolts and a quick scrape of the head and block will do.   

You will be fine because you are doing it properly.

Eric         
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peteracs
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« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2017, 01:40:46 PM »

Hi Eric

Tell me more about this mod please, as was not aware of the issue and should I do it to my stock 1.6?

Peter
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2017, 03:56:21 PM »

Hi Graham

Yes indeed provided you have a faced block, clean flat head face and have carefully cleaned out the head bolt threads in the block. The other must do is to have a top rail heater pass through or H section in the heater pipes. This removes the heater off limited flow at number 4 cylinder end of the head flaw that Fiat Lancia removed themselves on Beta IE VX Strada and Deltas.
Obviously new bolts or studs are required and stretch bolts from Tipo Diesel/ Integrale work with MLS gaskets as will GC's 12.9 bolts or Delta Parts 10mm ARP studs.

People hoping to "Get Away With" using a new gasket with a warped head and or dirty/ corroded heads and blocks and old bolts in corroded block threads will end up having to do it all again properly. I am making the point here because some people still think a cheap eBay resin gasket with the old head bolts and a quick scrape of the head and block will do.   

You will be fine because you are doing it properly.

Eric         
Yes, I don't intend to cut corners. It will be done to GC standard, even if GC isn't doing all the work (mainly because I don't think I can afford him to). He will do all the crank and flywheel prep, I'll get the block hot-washed and will clean out all threads, renew all studs and get the block and head checked for flatness. I'll be using new GC head bolts and washers and will do the fuel pump cam lobe mod myself. In fact I'll do as much as I can myself as long as it doesn't compromise the integrity of the build.
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
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1980 Yamaha RD350LC
WestonE
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« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2017, 04:49:51 PM »

Hi Graham

I am glad to hear it will be done properly. Please get the block faced when it is being re-bored. They will not take much off and you will have a smooth flat gasket surface.

Eric
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WestonE
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« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2017, 05:04:06 PM »

Hi Peter

Early Beta and Montecarlo engines have a cooling system design fault that means unless you are using the heater there is not enough flow through the cylinder head at number 4 end. This is why you will see gaskets with very large coolant metering holes at the number 4 end. But this is not the solution in reality. Obviously most people prefer not to have the heater on in the summer which leads to overheating at number 4 end and blown head gaskets.

Most people probably do not understand that the coolant holes in the head gasket meter the volume and distribution of coolant flow. If you look at a gasket you will see bigger holes on the exhaust side and gradually larger holes the further you get from the pump end. This is one reason why reverse head gaskets can be an issue because they have too much cooling on the inlet side and not enough on the exhaust side if used on our engines.

On Beta IEs and VXs you will see the heater feed pipe goes into the top rail and out again not straight from the head at number 4 cylinder to the heater tap. You can either copy this on the earlier beta top rail, get a later one or fit an H section joiner between the 2 heater pipes close to where they go through the bulkhead. The heater will still work fine and the head will be properly cooled at both ends. 

On my Monte I use a 16mm H section with nylon fittings from Car Builder Solutions.

Eric       
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peteracs
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« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2017, 06:31:10 PM »

Thanks for that Eric, I had never heard of that issue, may as well mod mine as I put it all back together. I have a later top rail which came from an IE I understand.

All the best

Peter
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2017, 07:52:38 PM »

Hi Graham

I am glad to hear it will be done properly. Please get the block faced when it is being re-bored. They will not take much off and you will have a smooth flat gasket surface.

Eric

Certainly will do, Eric.
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
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1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
HFStuart
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« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2017, 09:43:35 PM »

Eric,

Will these suite 85mm bores?
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WestonE
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« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2017, 10:06:16 AM »

Stuart

Yes not least because I have 85mm bores on my Montecarlo!

Eric
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WestonE
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« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2017, 09:40:39 AM »

Just an update to say I have received reviewed and made minor corrections to the design Mylar. It will now be sent back to Cometic next week and travels to the US for production in early February so hopefully pricing and availability soon.

I hope Mark Wastnidge and Monte Servicing and Repair will be able to act as suppliers for these.

When I have pricing I will put up a group buy/ who wants one post.

Eric   
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peteracs
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« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2017, 08:51:52 AM »

Hi Peter

On my Monte I use a 16mm H section with nylon fittings from Car Builder Solutions.

Eric       

Hi Eric

Had a quick look at this and could not spot the H connector on their site, but would it make sense to use a pair of T section connectors for the feed and return of the heater as they are much more available and would provide the same open return circuit if the heater valve is closed and when open provide a decent path for the hot coolant?

Peter
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WestonE
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« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2017, 08:29:37 AM »

Hi Peter

I am sorry for my sloppy description I made the H piece from 2 x nylon T pieces with a short length of silicon hose connecting them. I also tried making this part in 15 mm copper tubing but I preferred the look of the black nylon and silicon hose solution.

Eric
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peteracs
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« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2017, 04:40:12 PM »

Hi Eric

Ah, that makes sense and what I was going to do. Siting of the two T pieces near the bulkhead also makes sense as the original pipe is fairly straight there. Just need to make sure that the exhaust manifold is well wrapped, which needs doing anyway to protect the rack gaiters.

Peter
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Neil-yaj396
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« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2017, 09:25:52 AM »

Peter

Could you post a picture of your fabrications when done?

Neil
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WestonE
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« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2017, 10:56:10 AM »

OK Beta Fans

The sun is out and I have the first ever production MLS gasket for our cars and it is a thing of beauty. They will cost 120 each plus delivery. For now contact me to acquire one 1.7mm for standard compression 1.5mm for typically 1 point higher on compression e.g. 10:1 to 11:1.

A couple of pictures attached.

   


* Cometic MLS on GC 45 40 head (Large).JPG (352.13 KB, 1440x1080 - viewed 262 times.)

* Cometic vs Tako Flow increase and balance (Large).JPG (385.79 KB, 1440x1080 - viewed 385 times.)
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peteracs
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« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2017, 12:39:27 PM »

Peter

Could you post a picture of your fabrications when done?

Neil

Hi Neil

I will do, not quite finished it yet, lawnmower fix diverted attention....

Peter
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HFStuart
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« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2017, 02:15:19 PM »

Eric,

Engine porn....

Anyway do you know that the compressed thickness of each will be ? I want to do some sums to give me something to look forward to while I'm getting it back on the road.

I've had gaskets before that have squished by 50% and it makes a mockery of trying to the CR calcs!



Stuart
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WestonE
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« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2017, 03:55:13 PM »

Hi Stuart

1.5mm and 1.7mm are compressed thickness and they are accurate due to being made of spring steel and stainless steel.

Cheers

Eric
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