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Author Topic: Distributor types for carb Betas  (Read 8371 times)
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mangocrazy
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« on: April 29, 2016, 03:52:45 PM »

I'm currently swapping over parts from the broken S2FL 2 litre engine to the i.e. 2 litre engine that's being reverted to carb spec. Just to confuse matters I also have a seized carb engine which I'm using for parts. When I compare the distributor from the S2Fl engine with the one from the seized engine, I notice that the S2FL dizzy has no apparent vacuum inlet provision, whereas the one off the seized engine has a a metal disc with a raised centre and a spigot fitted to it.

Did the later dizzy perform the advance/retard electronically, or by some other method? I presume the earlier one is connected to the inlet manifold at some point? And lastly, what is the possibility of buying a NOS distributor? Unlikely, next door to impossible or unicorn droppings?

Starting from the top we have:

1. The (dirty) S2FL dizzy:

2. The dizzy from the seized engine of unknown date:

3. For the last pic I gave the distributor body a quick clean with some grey Scotchbrite and was able to read the lettering. So obviously a Bosch distributor (their rivet logo is clearly visible on the second line). What does the '050' at the beginning of the first line signify?


* DSCF1179.JPG (242.05 KB, 775x1019 - viewed 257 times.)

* DSCF1181.JPG (230.17 KB, 733x997 - viewed 275 times.)

* DSCF1184.JPG (124.92 KB, 1028x341 - viewed 269 times.)
« Last Edit: December 16, 2019, 12:39:33 PM by mangocrazy » Logged

1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
Ammy
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« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2016, 04:30:00 PM »

My '79  2 litre Spyder has the diphragm connected to the inlet manifold,  similar to your second photograph.
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rossocorsa
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« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2016, 06:07:01 PM »

Main advance is by weights in the distributor body the vacuum advance is an additional feature to improve the timing further (or to improve emissions). There will be quite a few variations on Betas according to age and engine capacity. Sorry I don't know them well enough to comment further without digging out tech info and I don't have time at the moment.
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Neil-yaj396
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1979 1300 Coupe


« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2016, 08:55:37 AM »

I think they dropped the vacuum advance at some point. Probably post 1980?
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rossocorsa
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« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2016, 09:00:43 AM »

I think they dropped the vacuum advance at some point. Probably post 1980?

Fuel injected cars WITH DIGIPLEX have the vacuum pipe attached to the DIGIPLEX unit and no vacuum advance on the dizzy (or weights inside the dizzy fit that matter as DIGIPLEX controls advance map) earlier ie cars still have one (AFAIK) as do volumex cars. Vx and ie have dizzy mounted on end of cam box of course different to earlier cars.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2016, 09:23:44 AM by rossocorsa » Logged
Neil-yaj396
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1979 1300 Coupe


« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2016, 11:38:22 AM »

I think they dropped the vacuum advance at some point. Probably post 1980?

Fuel injected cars WITH DIGIPLEX have the vacuum pipe attached to the DIGIPLEX unit and no vacuum advance on the dizzy (or weights inside the dizzy fit that matter as DIGIPLEX controls advance map) earlier ie cars still have one (AFAIK) as do volumex cars. Vx and ie have dizzy mounted on end of cam box of course different to earlier cars.

Agreed, I was only thinking of the carb cars. Or does Mango's seized carb engine just have a rogue distributor fitted?
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rossocorsa
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« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2016, 01:29:30 PM »

I think they dropped the vacuum advance at some point. Probably post 1980?

Fuel injected cars WITH DIGIPLEX have the vacuum pipe attached to the DIGIPLEX unit and no vacuum advance on the dizzy (or weights inside the dizzy fit that matter as DIGIPLEX controls advance map) earlier ie cars still have one (AFAIK) as do volumex cars. Vx and ie have dizzy mounted on end of cam box of course different to earlier cars.

Agreed, I was only thinking of the carb cars. Or does Mango's seized carb engine just have a rogue distributor fitted?

There are many variations depending on series, which parts were fitted and where a car was originally sold. Unfortunately I don't have the time to check it all out at the moment, indeed might have to give up lancias for good if I lose the house in impending divorce as I would have to dispose of the VX :-(    
Anyway enough of my woes I will check it out in more detail if I happen to have a spare moment.
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2016, 02:53:23 PM »

Very sorry to hear about your divorce rossocorsa - it would be something of a tragedy if you had to lose the VX. And it would also be tragedy for us...  Sad

It's quite possible that the seized engine has a later dizzy on it than the original Spider unit, as I was never entirely sure of the seized engine's provenance.This is born out by part numbers of the two dizzys. The S2FL Spider (original, as far as I know) in the first photo has these part numbers etched into it:

Z44 15644 A1
0 237 001 004

The dizzy from the seized engine with the vacuum inlet has these part numbers:

Z44 14483 A2
0 237 002 034

Which to me looks a later part number. I could be wrong, of course...
« Last Edit: April 30, 2016, 10:53:14 PM by mangocrazy » Logged

1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
WestonE
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« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2016, 08:03:01 AM »

Graham The later 2000 carb engines in the UK had no vacuum advance and Bosch electronic ignition. The 1600 cars had a vacuum advance. Vacuum advance is an advantage IF it works because it adds advance in relation to load sensed by the vacuum. If the non vacuum advance dizzy is sound fit that as the advance curve will be right. I have modified 2000 units for vacuum advance but it is fiddly.

Enjoy

Eric
PS of course I now have no distributor and load is related to engine speed in a 3D map.
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2016, 01:17:34 PM »

Hi Eric,

Thanks for that; I'll fit the non-vacuum dizzy. Currently the engine that's ready to go in the Spider has the vacuum dizzy on it, but as the engine is on the garage floor it's only the work of a couple of minutes to swap them over.

Cheers,

Graham
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
JohnFol
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« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2022, 11:58:28 AM »

Hi all, currently going through running issues and got round to checking distributor. Mine is the same as Graham's and is off an electronic ignition carb 2000 model, and has a vacuum advance.

I have disconnected the vacuum pipe and just sucked on the end of it, and I am expecting the rod arrowed in picture to move. It doesn't, although pressure doesn't drop so I'm guessing diaphragm ok, but rod is stuck.

Haynes is silent on the Bosch distributor adjustments and diagrams, so is taking distributor out, or trying to fix in-situ just going to be a can of worms?


* Compressed Close Up Distributor.jpg (169.7 KB, 1024x760 - viewed 55 times.)
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2022, 12:33:42 PM »

Hi John,

Interesting that yours has the vacuum advance - mine (of very similar age and spec) didn't! My suggestion doesn't answer your question as such, but I think it may save time and frustration in the long run. I sent my distributor to H & H Ignition Solutions in Brierley Hill, West Midlands (https://www.facebook.com/HHignitionsolutions/) and they returned it in a condition indistinguishable from new. I can wholeheartedly recommend them. This thread gives a lot more details:

https://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4014.0
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
JohnFol
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« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2022, 05:43:35 PM »

I might go that route. Tried to remove it today and seized to engine (so no point digging out timing light just yet)
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smithymc
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« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2022, 07:28:07 PM »

Another vote for H & H - they did mine ( no vacuum) and converted to contactless, excellent value. I can also act as interpreter if you cant get the Black Country dialect!

Mark
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2022, 08:29:48 PM »

Another vote for H & H - they did mine ( no vacuum) and converted to contactless, excellent value. I can also act as interpreter if you cant get the Black Country dialect!

Mark

Wor yow on abaht?  Grin
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
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