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Author Topic: Ignition problems 2L fi zagato  (Read 8486 times)
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esteemz
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« on: September 19, 2015, 12:35:45 AM »

So my lbz hasn't started since I got it a couple months ago and I am still unsure of what it could be. This is what I know for sure:

Fuel pump works and fuel flows to the rail.
Battery is new and has more than 12.5v available.
Warning lights dim when the key is turned all the way.
I have voltage going to the distributor cap.
The red wire going to the starter is showing 12v from the female end and anywhere from 4-13 from the male end.

So I guess I have some questions with all this info as well.  Grin

Where is the ground wire from the solenoid and starter located at?
Is their a way to easily get power directly to the starter? (without removing the intake/fuel rail, etc)

Thanks for any help it is very much appreciated!
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HFStuart
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« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2015, 10:11:07 AM »

Hi and welcome. A few pics of a new members cars never go amis by the way!

To clarify: is your main problem that the engine doesn't turn over or turns over very slowly?

If so the first thing I'd check is the main engine earth strap. Make sure it's there and making good connection at both ends.

The main terminal on the starter is already connected directly to the battery, on non FI cars the wire to the starter solenoid runs round the right hand side of the engine bay and round past the alternator / oil filter to get to the starter. The routing may be different on US cars but it'll be pretty easy to find. Just run a direct live direct to the terminal this is connected to on the starter - access may be easier from underneath.

EDIT: Get a copy of the Haynes Manual - it has the wiring diagram for US some us cars. They come up pretty often on ebay.co.uk
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 10:42:07 AM by HFStuart » Logged
esteemz
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« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2015, 10:51:09 PM »

I'm going to check the main engine ground now and clean both ends.

and to answer your question, the starter and solenoid don't make a peep. Doesn't turn over at all. Not even slowly or a little bit.

Also, I'll get a picture for you sometime today. Smiley
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peteracs
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« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2015, 09:50:46 AM »

Hi

When you try to start see if you are getting a full voltage over the solenoid, that should determine if it is the solenoid.

Peter
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Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Saab 9-3 1.9Tid Cabrio
lukasdeopalenica
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« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2015, 07:18:15 AM »

Hi Esteemz. You have problems with starter or ignition?
Starter and its solenoid ground (-) terminal are connected through the starter casing and engine block to the battery minus terminal.
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Lancia Beta HPE 2000i.e. '82 rosso corsa
SAAB 900i 16V Aero, '93 solid black
Subaru Outback 3.0R
Honda CB125 K6 '76 electric blue
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esteemz
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« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2015, 09:42:01 PM »

Ok, so my starter motor is working if I jump it directly to the battery. The spark plugs are sparking, but no fuel is going into the engine.
I am assuming this might be from the ignition control module, but I am not fully sure.

So the starter motor and fuel injection isn't working from the ignition inside the car. :c
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Neil-yaj396
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1979 1300 Coupe


« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2015, 07:39:32 AM »

Is the fuel pump working? You should be able to hear it.

There was a thread on here recently about a US Coupe that was completely dead, and it was just a damaged/disconnected wire on the steering column.
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esteemz
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« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2015, 10:09:44 AM »

Is the fuel pump working? You should be able to hear it.

There was a thread on here recently about a US Coupe that was completely dead, and it was just a damaged/disconnected wire on the steering column.
I hear the fuel pump ans tested the fuel before by disconnecting the line before the rail and feeding the fuel into a container. Fuel goes to the rail just not past the injectors. Do the injectors and starter motor share any circuit/module/etc in common? My guess would be ignition control module but doesnt it also control the spark? Which I have spark; so I don't think it'd be that.
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frankxhv773t
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« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2015, 11:13:38 AM »

If the starter motor spins on a direct power supply but doesn't turn over on the key that would be the solenoid. I have had success in the past dismantling the solenoid and lubricating the moving parts. The bit inside the coil that shoots across to move everything gets stuck if it dries out.

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esteemz
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« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2015, 05:40:31 PM »

If the starter motor spins on a direct power supply but doesn't turn over on the key that would be the solenoid. I have had success in the past dismantling the solenoid and lubricating the moving parts. The bit inside the coil that shoots across to move everything gets stuck if it dries out.



The starter motor spins the engine with power to the red lead and also directly, just not from the key. But my current issue is injection more than anything. :C
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frankxhv773t
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« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2015, 09:51:24 PM »

OK. At least your starter motor is all OK then. Good luck with the electronic black magic.
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esteemz
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« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2016, 05:19:44 AM »

Update: Everything pretty much works. Except for the fuel injectors firing. Any ideas? Going to be checking the ignition coil to see if it is sending a signal to the ecu.

Most likely it is that or possibly the dual relay or the ecu itself.

Still haven't gotten it to start. :c
Spark, fuel pump, and start motor work great.
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WestonE
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« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2016, 10:38:40 AM »

As you are working with an IE beta I suggest reading the threads on that car for the role of the twin relay pack and the airflow meter in sending a signal to the ECU. I strongly suggest investing in a new ignition switch as they have always been weak and you could have the ECU not receiving sufficient voltage on the PIN supplying the injection area of the ECU. The other thing to be aware of is that the Bosch EV1 injectors tend to seize with lack of use and you may need to have them overhauled. If the ECU is sending power to the injectors when the key is turned then they are seized. If you have no power to the injectors then it is why is the ECU not providing the power to switch the injectors. So start from the ignition switch and check continuity through the connections to the ECU.

I hope this is helpful and sorry I no longer have Beta IE wiring diagrams. I just have a 100 wires of modern Link Fury ECU and custom fuse box to install in my Montecarlo so it can use the Volumetrico Supercharger properly.

Eric   
PS Fuel supply is not enough you must have fuel supply at a high enough pressure. I do not have the OE figures but 43PSI or more is typical.
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lukasdeopalenica
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« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2016, 03:29:31 PM »

The dual relay is responsible for fuel pump activation/feeding. If your fuel pump is working the relay should be also ok.
I would suggest you to measure fuel pressure first. It should be about 3Bar. Please have in mind that fuel pump is supplied with voltage as long as the engine is working what means that the AFM's flap is open or/and starter motor is operating. So if you want to check fuel pump operation or to measure fuel pressure you need to lift the flap.
The L-Jectronic system is really simple and rather reliable. 

* EN__L-Jetronic.pdf (379.8 KB - downloaded 71 times.)
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Lancia Beta HPE 2000i.e. '82 rosso corsa
SAAB 900i 16V Aero, '93 solid black
Subaru Outback 3.0R
Honda CB125 K6 '76 electric blue
Specialized Epic & Stumpjumper
esteemz
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« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2016, 12:35:15 AM »

Well, I have jumped each injector by keeping them attached to the fuel rail and just hot wiring the ground and taping the positive side to the battery and they all squirt fuel. Also, when I open the afm flap by hand, the fuel pump stays on. So that seems to be signaling the fuel pump to stay on.

I'll go ahead and check the ignition switch continuity. Hopefully that will be what I am needing to fix.
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