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Author Topic: Crank sensor mounting for EDIS ignition  (Read 17087 times)
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lanciamad
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Marcus Robinson


« on: December 05, 2014, 11:44:30 PM »

Having bought a pulley with trigger wheel fitted and crank sensor with mount from millers mule many years ago, I didn't realise that the alternator belt would foul on the bracket and sensor. It appears that an idler kit used to be available from millers to solve this and have emailed them in the hope they can still offer this, but in the case that they can't or I don't get a reply.
How have others got there sensor mounted / changed the route of the belt? Pics would be great.
The problem...




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HFStuart
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« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2014, 11:22:21 AM »

That idler kit was never available   - the bugger took $50 off me for it and has never refunded or replied since.

I used a cambelt idler from a citroen mounted on an arm attached to the oil filter block. It's worked OK. Pics to follow.


A more elegant solution I'm thinking of is to use the ie oil filter mount and lower the alternator so the belt runs below the sensor
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lanciamad
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Marcus Robinson


« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2014, 11:40:43 AM »

Really? Sad to hear that Stuart, they seemed alright when I ordered from them all those years ago.

You could be a life saver Stuart!

Very interested in seeing the mod, your suggestion sounds probably the right way to go with yours, however I have the power steering pump in the way Sad

Did you want any pics of my alternator/oil housing/power steering setup to look at as I have it pretty stripped atm?
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HFStuart
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« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2014, 05:15:22 PM »

Marcus,

You can see the bracket best here:



And the idler here:



There are a couple of brackets behind that you can just about see   - one from the bracket I made and another from the lower alternator belt - they form a V shape and the idler is bolted on at the bottom of the V. As you can see it just moved the belt up enough to clear the mount.

To be fair to Millers Mule I had some really good stuff from him 2-3 years ago  and I was very pleased but the last experience soured things a bit.

I'd love some pics of your current setup. I've got diagrams but a picture is almost always better.
 
« Last Edit: December 06, 2014, 05:16:54 PM by HFStuart » Logged
WestonE
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« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2014, 08:39:06 AM »

Marcus

If the software for your ECU provides a Crank Sensor position offset you can just move the pickup higher and type into the software where it is. Emerald does this out of the box and it is worth checking on Megasquirt as it will be an easier solution needing a simple steel bracket made and welded. I use Magneti Marreli Crank Sensors as used on the Integrale and Cosworth engine. I use 36-1 trigger wheels from trigger wheels.com and mount the sensor first then rotate the wheel to the right place before fixing it to the back of an IE or VX Crank Pulley.

You can also find crank position sensors with a 90 degree lead output that will make it much more compact with your new steel bracket. I think Fiat Punto or Fiat Coupe have these and they are on ebay new.

 You may need to trim the bottom of the belt cover, but that is not a huge challenge.  [/img]

I hope this helps
Eric


* Spec X VX Belts & Brackets Close Up June 2013_Medium.JPG (118.74 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 472 times.)
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WestonE
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« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2014, 08:42:32 AM »

Marcus

Please note my belt over is a TMH Montecarlo twin side draft weber conversion item and the bracket for the alternator is fabricated on the Beta IE Oil Block.

Enjoy

Eric 
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lanciamad
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Marcus Robinson


« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2014, 09:31:18 PM »

I think the major problem is that the power steering pump is where it is and doesn't give much option but to keep the alternator in the same place. It  looks like the trigger offset can be changed, however running edis it will need to be 9 teeth advance of the missing tooth anyway, so looks like the easiest way of getting round it, is either look at what extra idler I can get in place as Stuart has done to make the belt come to the crank pulley at a more vertical angle...

and keeping all as it is, or reposition the crank position sensor and bracket to another place on a custom bracket and move the trigger wheel around to match it. Either way looks like i'll be making brackets soon.
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1988 - Lancia Delta HF Turbo - Sorn - http://www.lanciasport.com/forum/index.php?topic=2585.0
1989 - Lancia Delta 1300 LX - Sorn
1988 - BMW E30 325i - Track
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WestonE
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« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2014, 10:38:12 AM »

Marcus

Try moving round the trigger wheel one screw hole and making a new pick up bracket. I think I have it right that the steel trigger wheel is fixed with screws from the back of the Millers Mule Crank pulley.

Enjoy!!

Eric   
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HFStuart
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« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2014, 01:05:58 PM »

I think I have it right that the steel trigger wheel is fixed with screws from the back of the Millers Mule Crank pulley.

Correct.

Looking at the photo Marcus, if you don't want to move the pickup could you get a small idler on the bolt holding the PS bracket? That looks to be the ideal location to move the belt run up a little.
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lanciamad
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Marcus Robinson


« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2014, 11:34:21 PM »

I think I have it right that the steel trigger wheel is fixed with screws from the back of the Millers Mule Crank pulley.

Correct.

Looking at the photo Marcus, if you don't want to move the pickup could you get a small idler on the bolt holding the PS bracket? That looks to be the ideal location to move the belt run up a little.

It would be perfect Stuart, however the belt for the PS pump gets in the way unfortunately, and finding a small idler for that size bolt would be difficult I feel. I was contemplating whether the M6 for the cambelt cover could be used for a small idler but would need substantial bracketry to go with it to take the strain.
I spent some time today working on a solution, and looks like it should do the job. I've turned it over by hand and all belts seem to run clear of each other.
I've cut the bracket top down to as close as I dare...

then when taking the alternator out, managed to knock the solid pipe for the PS around to give more adjustment for the alternator, and brought the alternator out slightly which results in it just clearing the bracket / sensor by a mm or so...
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1982 - Lancia Beta HPE 2000ie - Track - http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=472.0
1988 - Lancia Delta HF Turbo - Sorn - http://www.lanciasport.com/forum/index.php?topic=2585.0
1989 - Lancia Delta 1300 LX - Sorn
1988 - BMW E30 325i - Track
2005 - Subaru Forester XT STI - Road
Neil-yaj396
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« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2014, 07:54:29 AM »

Isn't there a danger that when running the belts 'wobble' a bit and it will be constantly catching on the sensor?
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WestonE
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« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2014, 10:22:54 AM »

Marcus

I agree with Neil you need 5mm clearance or that belt is going to foul in use and break when you need it least!

Sorry

Eric
 
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lanciamad
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Marcus Robinson


« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2015, 10:45:25 AM »

Final update to close the topic, I ended up having to reposition the sensor, make a bracket to fit the sensor which attached via the sump bolts and adjust the trigger wheel to match tdc... http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=472.msg20385#msg20385
Thanks for everyone's help on the subject, Marcus
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1982 - Lancia Beta HPE 2000ie - Track - http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=472.0
1988 - Lancia Delta HF Turbo - Sorn - http://www.lanciasport.com/forum/index.php?topic=2585.0
1989 - Lancia Delta 1300 LX - Sorn
1988 - BMW E30 325i - Track
2005 - Subaru Forester XT STI - Road
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