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Author Topic: 2000ie Starts then dies. Troublshooting. Any ideas?  (Read 4194 times)
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flex
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« on: August 10, 2014, 08:31:19 PM »

Hi all,

I haven't seen this covered before, so hopefully I haven't missed it.

Quick background:
2000ie stood for a long time, had previously had fuel starvation issues due to the cruddy tank issues. It ran well enough 10 years ago to drive for a few minutes until the pump was sucking against a blocked "lobster pot" filter. The tank has been cleaned thoroughly, new pump, new filter and pipes at that end of the car. There is petrol making it's way freely to the end of the fuel rail.

It starts and then instantly dies.

As far as diagnostics go, i was just going to run through the checks on this website ( and a few others) http://www.hiperformancestore.com/Ljetronic.htm - seeing as its a similar setup.

So far we have checked the air flow meter. This appears to be fine, moving freely and triggering the fuel pump at all positions when the ignition is on. when the car dies the fuel pump is still running, so this would not appear to be the source of the problem. There are no visible splits/ crack of air leaks, but I could have missed something. is there any thing hidden away that i may not have seen?

I strongly suspect injectors are going to be feeling sorry for themselves so I guess the next step is to test them. Is there anything i should watch out for/ tips for this? That said, am I right in thinking that the starting the instantly dying is not likely to be an injector problem - if its able to start the injectors are working to some degree, and the instant shutting down isa result of the injectors not being opened by the ecu because of some other reason (once they have been used -working to some degree- initially to start the car)?

The articles mention grounds and electrical connectors going bad: this could have happened in storage. Is there a list of places to check anywhere?

I suspect its just a case of running through all the possibilities. If there is anyone with suggestions for likely causes i should priorituise that would help!

Cheers,

Felix
« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 08:38:45 PM by flex » Logged

So many cars, so little time.
rossocorsa
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« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2014, 09:02:38 PM »

Steve Thompson had exactly this issue with his black ie resto project I will check with him but I think it was blocked injectors
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Thotos
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Theo Kyriacou


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« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2014, 12:04:50 AM »

Presumably this is the Bosch L-Jetronic system as also fitted to the Gamma? If that's the case and you have a "double relay" as the Gamma has, try swapping that one first if you have a spare. Otherwise, look for air leaks especially "unmetered air". A common Gamma problem is the seal under the oil filler cap. There's a pipe running from the oil filler to the unmetered side of the airbox so if the rubber seal under the oil filler cap is missing the car will start because of extra fuel from the cold-start injector while the engine is being crancked and then will instantly dye as too much "unmetered air" enters the system.
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Theo Kyriacou
flex
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« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2014, 05:01:31 PM »

Thanks for the replies

Steve Thompson had exactly this issue with his black ie resto project I will check with him but I think it was blocked injectors

This sounds promising in a way. I would hope it's not down to replacing injectors (at least at this stage) but even if they work I can't believe they are perfect.

Presumably this is the Bosch L-Jetronic system as also fitted to the Gamma? If that's the case and you have a "double relay" as the Gamma has, try swapping that one first if you have a spare. Otherwise, look for air leaks especially "unmetered air". A common Gamma problem is the seal under the oil filler cap. There's a pipe running from the oil filler to the unmetered side of the airbox so if the rubber seal under the oil filler cap is missing the car will start because of extra fuel from the cold-start injector while the engine is being crancked and then will instantly dye as too much "unmetered air" enters the system.


This is the type of behaviour - I have looked for cracks/ splits / leaks though there is always the risk of creating new ones by taking things to pieces Sad


I'm having another look at the moment. I may even have a spare relay.
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flex
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« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2014, 04:58:48 PM »

To update:

I have looked around for problems, looked better for any air flow issue, cleaned up the aux air valve, which was a bit messy but here is the problem.

I pulled the 5th injector plug (the cold start one on the plenum) and it goes from starting and instantly stalling to not starting at all. There is therefore no fuel coming from the other 4 main injectors. I guess this means:

All 4 injectors are duff/ blocked (resistance is fine on at least the 1st one)

or

Somewhere along the line, the message for them to open isn't getting through.

I reckon the second of these is likely. a loose connection or duff relay? Or something else that isn't right which is telling them  not to work?

Cheers

Felix
« Last Edit: August 14, 2014, 05:25:32 PM by flex » Logged

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thecolonel
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« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2014, 07:54:40 PM »

Check the multi earth bolted to the end of the cambox
Can be a source of faults if it has worked loose.
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flex
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« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2014, 08:02:19 PM »

As I am normally wrong, I decided to ignore my hunch that it wasn't the injectors, and zapped the ones on cylinders 1 and 2 with 12 volts (a momentary touch - enough to hear the click but no more). Now the car runs on two cylinders. It would appear they needed a "shove". I am now trying to get the injector connectors off on cylinders 3 and 4, which are horrible to get to.

Thanks to the gamma forum link. http://gammaconsortium.com/lanciagammaforum/index.php?topic=768.0;wap2

Well there's something. Now there's everything else on the car to check Cheesy
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flex
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« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2014, 08:37:07 PM »

Good new, everybody!

It runs, after at least 10 years since it started (intermittently), and more than 22 since it was last on the road, it lives!

Bit lumpy,  but that'll do for tonight!

Sticky injectors - I doubt they are fine, so will ideally have to come out and be cleaned, but that is a problem for another day.

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MattNoVAT
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« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2014, 07:34:05 AM »

Excellent, always good to hear an engine fire back into life.  Helps with the enthusiasm too :-)
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1981 2000 Coupe S2/FL
1976 1600 Coupe S1

Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car. Oversteer is when you hit the wall with the back of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you send the wall across the field once youve hit it.
thecolonel
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« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2014, 01:35:54 PM »

Oh dear, I'd completely forgotten about giving out
those suggestions on the gamma forum
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flex
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« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2014, 08:38:24 PM »

The car starts the idle is terrible for a few seconds (needs a little throttle to keep it alive) but then it settles to a slightly fast idle at around 1100. at the moment the air filter is off, so I expect that to slow it down a little bit.

The next test for our enthusiasm is the cooling system. The radiator leaks at the top. no apparent problems anywhere else for the moment, though with the rad leak it wont be full/upto pressure).

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So many cars, so little time.
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