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Author Topic: Fuel Starvation in a 2000ie  (Read 12491 times)
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lukasdeopalenica
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« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2013, 09:21:40 PM »

I simply blew into the pipe then tried to suck. Seemed ok.
I drove with a loose filler cap, also removed the sender while the pump worked noisily. No result. There are 5 openings in my tank: filler, feed, return and 2x breather (one connected to a filler neck, and the second led outside the chassis under a spare wheel. 
I need to check yet a rubber hose that connects tank with pump, it is bent and is likely that when heated may collapse. If this will not solve the issue I will try to prepare and use a plastic provisional tank and place it in the spare wheel well.  Roll Eyes
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Lancia Beta HPE 2000i.e. '82 rosso corsa
SAAB 900i 16V Aero, '93 solid black
Subaru Outback 3.0R
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lukasdeopalenica
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« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2013, 10:55:45 AM »

I looked into the tank again and with  some help of a long screwdriwer and a narrow wire brush I realised that the issue may be just caused by blocked filter. After refreshing the tank I treated it inside with rust converter (Fertran). Afterwards I rinsed the tank few times, but it seems that a layer of converted rust still exist inside and slowly come off. I tried tu pump fuel away from the surge tank, but slowly fuel poured there again from the main tank. The sucked fuel contained a lot of converted rust products (black and glazed). I am going now to remove the tank and clean it inside by shaking it with steel nuts and some petrol.
In the picture attached I pointed main elements inside the lobster pot.
Could anyone correct me and/or ease my doubts:
1. No. 1 Surge tank (or lobster pot)
2. No. 2 fuel feed line
3. No. 3 Fuel return line
4. No. 4 Suction element with strainer
5. Apart of a return line how the surge tank is filled up?
6. Does the strainer suck fuel by side wall and/or through the bottom? which surfaces should be cleaned? The strainer I reckon has tiny holes and can be easily blocked. The opening in the tank is too smal to insert a hand inside, also the surge tank is small, and there is almost impossible to clean the suction element from the bottom side:/
7. Which element should I pierced in case of totally blocked strainer, the top surface? Additional filter is already placed before the pump. 
I will appreciate any suggestion Smiley


* PIC_0096.1.jpg (300.09 KB, 1600x1200 - viewed 391 times.)
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Lancia Beta HPE 2000i.e. '82 rosso corsa
SAAB 900i 16V Aero, '93 solid black
Subaru Outback 3.0R
Honda CB125 K6 '76 electric blue
Specialized Epic & Stumpjumper
lukasdeopalenica
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« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2013, 09:41:17 PM »

I removed the tank and have it cleaned thoroughly and let it dry. I also checked the pump and operation of the fuel system without the tank. I used plastic canister filled with petrol and transparent lines connected to the pump and as well to the return line. What I realised was a flux of air bubbles with petrol coming from the return line (no air in the suction line). The starvation might have been linked with the bubbles, when the pump sucks by chance air bubbles in the lobster pot. Where the bubbles may get into the lines? I am sure not before the pump as there was no bubbles observed in it. I could not find any leaks in the system Roll Eyes The only place where air can get into the lines may be a pressure regulator. Am I right?I can add that a kind whisper comes from the regulator while the pump works.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 08:21:42 AM by lukasdeopalenica » Logged

Lancia Beta HPE 2000i.e. '82 rosso corsa
SAAB 900i 16V Aero, '93 solid black
Subaru Outback 3.0R
Honda CB125 K6 '76 electric blue
Specialized Epic & Stumpjumper
lukasdeopalenica
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« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2013, 08:00:51 AM »

So I have cleaned the tank thoroughly, checked all the lines and filled up with 30ltrs of fresh premium petrol. In a garage runs like new, however I am going to take a longer trip today to verify it. Keep fingers crossed please  Cool
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Lancia Beta HPE 2000i.e. '82 rosso corsa
SAAB 900i 16V Aero, '93 solid black
Subaru Outback 3.0R
Honda CB125 K6 '76 electric blue
Specialized Epic & Stumpjumper
lukasdeopalenica
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« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2013, 08:53:09 PM »

I drove today 25kms without any single symptom. I will keep an eye on it further  Cool
I should mention also that I placed a piece of copper sheet inside the surge tank between a return line outlet and a suction filter to prevent air bubbles from sucking into a feeding line...
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Lancia Beta HPE 2000i.e. '82 rosso corsa
SAAB 900i 16V Aero, '93 solid black
Subaru Outback 3.0R
Honda CB125 K6 '76 electric blue
Specialized Epic & Stumpjumper
peteracs
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« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2013, 09:39:44 PM »

I drove today 25kms without any single symptom. I will keep an eye on it further  Cool
I should mention also that I placed a piece of copper sheet inside the surge tank between a return line outlet and a suction filter to prevent air bubbles from sucking into a feeding line...

Hi Lukas

So you did not resolve why there were air bubbles in first place?

Peter
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« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2013, 10:35:38 PM »

Maybe nothing?Huh?Huh??? but has anyone mentioned the little conical filters/gauzes in the injectors themselves?
these if on a 'high miler' may become gummed and deposit blocked??? I removed mine, rigged up a reverse flow cleaning system on each
injector and reverse flushed at pump pressure with a 9 volt battery connected to electrical connection and aimed nozzle into
a clear glass jar! on all but one there was some 'bobar' in the bottom of the jar after flushing?Huh??
fuel pressure, volume and tank return will indicate 'normal' but injector output and stoichiometric 14.7:1 will be skewed and hence
massive hole in engine output especially under load, mimicking 'starvation'.
I have also observed that pump 'noise' is directly related to both fuel temp and more so by fuel aeriation?
Just a thought Embarrassed
kev b.
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lukasdeopalenica
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« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2013, 07:59:36 AM »

Peter,
No, unfortunatelly I didn't resolve the mistery. Maybe it was air trapped inside the fuel system beforehand. I will monitor it, I hope they are going to fade Smiley
Definitelly the noisiness was caused both by troubles with fuel sucking and air bubles that were caught with fuel.
Another thing I observed now is that the engine starts to miss at iddle when hot. Sounds like an ignition issue... It can be linked with charging/voltage as intermittently a charging warning light comes up.
kev,
When I have time I will also check the injectors. There is a matter of fact that they may be blocked, as they have their age and the car was not running for some years. Now I am also preparing to my wedding so I run a bit short of time :/
« Last Edit: July 18, 2013, 08:04:20 AM by lukasdeopalenica » Logged

Lancia Beta HPE 2000i.e. '82 rosso corsa
SAAB 900i 16V Aero, '93 solid black
Subaru Outback 3.0R
Honda CB125 K6 '76 electric blue
Specialized Epic & Stumpjumper
1970s wedge
1990 Hawk HF2000ie , 1996 Mazda MX3 1.8 V6, 1989 BMW E30 1.6i
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« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2013, 11:47:29 PM »

Pretty sure I know where your priorities 'SHOULD' be focussed Cheesy many congrats for your forth coming event Grin.
Yes, i found my budget injection clean vvvery time consuming but to date very worthwhile!
The other option of course would be to send them off to one of the many companies for an ultrasonic clean and
flow report? even more time hungry and perhaps financially to boot Undecided ( also, ultasonic cleaning tanks can be bought cheaply these days, Maplin?)
Hope prob turns out to be both a simple and cheap fix?
kev b.
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"It's like sitting in an a hot oven and looking out of an oddly shaped letterbox!"
lukasdeopalenica
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« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2013, 07:52:58 AM »

The issue is finally solved, at least I hope so. Thorough cleaning eliminated the fuel starvation. Mentioned ignition issues were caused by a torn hose of auxiliary air bypass just at the intake manifold inlet. Probably it were both that together took my nerves for test  Roll Eyes
I took yesterday an over 100km trip with no problems at all.  Cool
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Lancia Beta HPE 2000i.e. '82 rosso corsa
SAAB 900i 16V Aero, '93 solid black
Subaru Outback 3.0R
Honda CB125 K6 '76 electric blue
Specialized Epic & Stumpjumper
peteracs
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« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2013, 07:55:40 AM »

Hi Lukas

Very happy you sorted it out, though I guess having the problem may also means you have sorted some other issues out as well!

Peter
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lukasdeopalenica
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« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2013, 03:37:56 PM »

Now the engine revvs so sweet  Cool
And an another dillema has just popped out. The speedometer shows about 10km/h les than should indicate while the odometer counts rather correctly. Is it possible? The speedo cable was replaced recently and is brand new. Are there any markings on the differential/box housing that show the diff ratio? I know this is a bit out off topic...sorry about that  Cool
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Lancia Beta HPE 2000i.e. '82 rosso corsa
SAAB 900i 16V Aero, '93 solid black
Subaru Outback 3.0R
Honda CB125 K6 '76 electric blue
Specialized Epic & Stumpjumper
WestonE
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« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2013, 06:19:27 PM »

The diff ratio is stamped on the side of the centre gearbox casing. for example on a VX it is 19/62.

Eric
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lukasdeopalenica
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« Reply #33 on: August 29, 2013, 07:52:16 AM »

Thanks Eric,
I will try to look closer there  Cool
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Lancia Beta HPE 2000i.e. '82 rosso corsa
SAAB 900i 16V Aero, '93 solid black
Subaru Outback 3.0R
Honda CB125 K6 '76 electric blue
Specialized Epic & Stumpjumper
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