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Author Topic: Replacing Cambelt  (Read 9938 times)
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peteracs
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« on: March 08, 2013, 11:52:51 AM »

Hi All

Ok, have successfully removed the belt and tensioner bearing (1600 engine) and  replaced the bearing and managed to get the new belt back on round the crank etc (I did roughly compare the belts and they appeared the same size, it was bought from a reputable motor factors as a kit supplied by AE, tensioner was SKF part and belt is QH). I have also tensioned up the tensioner bearing as far as I think it will go and locked it off. BUT the cambelt appears incredibly tight fit to get back on the inlet cam wheel, is it supposed to be such a difficult job before you release the tensioner bearing?

Thanks

Peter
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Thotos
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« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2013, 04:14:19 PM »

It should not be tight with the tensioner bearing pushed back and locked in the 'slack' position (i.e. not tensioning the belt). You need to count the teeth on the old and the new belts to make sure you've got the correct belt for your car.
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rossocorsa
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« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2013, 04:18:45 PM »

bit confused about tensioner bearing do you mean you've locked it  away from the belt or towards it? as I recall (over 10 years since I've done one on a beta) the belt can be fairly awkward to get on the last pulley but shouldn't be excessively tight, once you have released the tensioner and locked it plus rotated the engine by hand a few turns the tension on the belt should equalise and not be excessive. by the way I have the special tool for checking the tension  Grin 
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 04:20:34 PM by rossocorsa » Logged
peteracs
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« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2013, 05:08:22 PM »

Hi

I have locked it so that the belt will be at its most loose, ie when I release it it will then tension the belt. The tension bearing is the same as the one that came off and is the correct size ie 67mm in diameter as opposed to the 2.0l version which I think is 71mm.

Really looking forward to taking the belt off again to count the teeth......

Peter
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Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
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peteracs
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« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2013, 12:53:08 PM »

Hi All

Ok, well before I went through the motion of removing the belt and counting teeth (probably similar effect to sheep), I had one last go at ensuring the belt was correctly located. The difficulty (both to do and to see) is whether the belt is fully tensioned between the crank and the idler gear which drives the disti. I managed to do this by taking the belt off the idler at the front of the idler, so it only engaged at the rear (near the tensioner bearing) and moving the crank slightly to make sure the belt was tight. Obviously you have to revisit the position of the crank and idler to ensure they end up correctly aligned. Then it is easy to wrap around the front of the idler wheel and then around the tensioner and exhaust cam wheels, finally this left just a small amount of effort to go over the inlet cam wheel. Finally released the tensioner screw and as a check, turned the engine over by hand for a few times to ensure that the timing marks all aligned.

It will be a few weeks yet before I can fire up and see if all is ok.

One thing I did find, was there was no mention anywhere I could find of how to remove the tensioner bearing with the engine in situ.

Haynes tells you sort of with it out of the car, but could not see anything with it in, nor anything on this forum, so thought I would share my experience, it may help someone!

The tensioner bearing is located on a movable spring loaded plate which is held in place with one bolt and a stud. The bolt holds part of the spring and needs to be loosened off to allow the plate to move. The stud goes through the flange on the plate and through the centre of the tensioner bearing. The hole in the plate is much larger than the stud, allowing some movement of the plate as required. When in normal use, the nut on the stud is tightened up and fixes the plate in a specific position to tension the belt.

So, slacken off the tensioner nut and the bolt and you can now force the tensioner to release tension on the belt, lock off the nut again, then remove the belt. All well and good so far. Now to remove the bearing. Remove the nut and the three washers under it (varying sizes and the last one has a flange on it, keep them in the correct order for reassembly. It is now possible to ease the bearing off the flange of the plate, but it will foul the pulley of the water pump, so you have to get in with a spanner and slacken off the three bolts on the pulley. Not easy, but doable with patience. I suggest not removing them as they will be a pig to get back on due to the inner wing being in the way. You will have to wedge the pulley somehow to allow initial unscrewing of the bolts (and retightening). You can get in with a flat bladed screwdriver on the other bolts to provide some resistance or use some wood to wedge against the block etc, your choice. When the pulley is slackened off enough there is just enough room to slide the tensioner bearing out over the pulley and then over the stud, but it was very tight on mine.

Reassembly is a reverse of above, but when trying to put the tensioner bearing back on the flange of the plate I found it hard to get it to go on, so I put it on the flange slightly and then added the washers and the nut, starting with just one, tightening a little to push the bearing on and adding the rest as there was room on the stud. For the last flanged one I found it necessary to force the tensioner plate spring into compression to allow the washer to sit correctly against the tensioner bearing as the stud gets in the way when fully released.

That's it, fairly straight forward and whole thing should take 1-2 hours (if doing it for the second time), first time will take a while longer if you go down a few blind alleys like me.

Peter
 
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speedyK
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« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2013, 08:33:44 PM »

it's time for a cambelt change on my Beta Spider 2000, so I thought I'd revive this tread  Smiley

My friendly local Fiat/Lancia specialist who looks after my car (and has about 20 old Fiat/Lancias/Alfas himself) tells me that the belt tensioner should also be replaced, as this is a weak point too.
Trouble is, he can't find one here in Switzerland and has so far failed to do so in mainland Europe.

So, my questions are:

- is replacing the tensioner important - or even essential?

- anyone where they are available? Somewhere in the UK?

I'd be very grateful if someone could help, as I'm too worried to drive the car at the mo.
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Neil-yaj396
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« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2013, 08:51:24 PM »

You can check the wheel for any play. The tensioner doesn't usually need changing every time. There are usually a couple on eBay though if you do need one. Otherwise the bearing itself can be changed (there's a thread on here about the size and how to do it somewhere.)
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rossocorsa
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« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2013, 08:59:35 PM »

I would change it but you don't need to change the complete tensioner the bearing can be removed from its casing and the bearing itself is a readily available size from any bearing supplier, buy a good quality make though skf or fag for example.
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speedyK
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« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2013, 09:33:39 PM »

Sounds easy!

My mech said that the grease in the bearing can become dry and hard, resulting in failure. He's always talked about it as if the whole unit should be replaced.

How would i know what size bearing and what grease to use - and won't the casing itself be worn too?  Huh?
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HFStuart
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« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2013, 09:52:29 PM »

The casing is steel - it is not likely to be worn.

The bearing is the only part that needs to be replaced unless damage is obvious, it's designed that way not like more modern tensioners that are all one piece.

The bearing is a sealed type and replacement of the grease is not advised. Search tensioner on this forum I'm pretty sure the part number has been given before and any bearing factor will be able to sell you one. NB Make sure it's a premier brand such as FAG or SKF.
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rossocorsa
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« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2013, 10:12:13 PM »

Just to clarify the bearing is retained in its case by an interference fit plus a circlip, you need to remove the circlip before using a suitable method to remove the bearing, not sure if it can be pressed out as the casing is semi enclosed on one side. The casing is unlikely to be damaged unless the bearing has seized and turned inside which in your case will not be the situation. The new bearing will be supplied ready lubricated with rubber seals on either side of the races and will need to be pressed into the casing. Your garage should be able to do this. If they rarely service betas they may not be aware that the bearing is of a different style to those on tc fiats ( and for that matter montecarlo ), on these they are in one piece, all part of the joys of illogical Italian design variations!
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speedyK
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« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2013, 10:34:39 PM »

Thanks for all the info, guys!

I'll have a search for the necessary bearing.
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speedyK
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« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2013, 10:45:46 PM »

Excellent!

I found the part number here:

http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=418.0

Sounds like  3205 A-2RS1TN9/MT33 is the best choice as it could offer you some warning before disaster strikes!

Are these the right ones - and does it only need one bearing for this?

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/ball-bearings/2851692/
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rossocorsa
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« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2013, 11:09:15 PM »

Yes, just one and you should be able to buy it from any decent bearing stockist
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speedyK
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« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2013, 11:20:04 PM »

I wonder if I can find it in Switzerland...

I'll see what my mech says.
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rossocorsa
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« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2013, 11:54:42 PM »

I wonder if I can find it in Switzerland...

I'll see what my mech says.
[/quote..]
It shouldn't be a problem the bearing is not special to Lancia, it is a generally available size

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
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speedyK
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« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2013, 04:35:30 PM »

Sounds like  3205 A-2RS1TN9/MT33 is the best choice as it could offer you some warning before disaster strikes!

Are these the right ones - and does it only need one bearing for this?

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/ball-bearings/2851692/
Just checking before I pull the trigger and order this - that is the right one for a 1981 Beta Spider 2.0 litre - yes?

My mech says the big question is IF the bearing will come out of its casing...
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speedyK
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« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2013, 04:54:14 PM »

I've ordered the 3205-A-2RS1TN9/MT33

Worth a try with just the bearing, as the whole unit is insanely priced  Shocked Shocked Shocked :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/QH-TIMING-BELT-TENSIONER-PULLEY-RC493794P-TO-FIT-LANCIA-BETA-79-86-OE-QUALITY/290775543051?_trksid=p2045573.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D16581%26meid%3D1400258150337341753%26pid%3D100033%26prg%3D7839%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D290775543051%26
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HFStuart
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« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2013, 07:31:51 PM »

Your mechanic (and that ebay advert) are just wrong.

The bearing will come out easily, it's held in with a circlip, not an interference fit and even if it were stuck a press would make quick work of it.

That e-bay add is stupid, it's someone with no stock that doesn't want to have to remove the advert so they make the price way high so no-one buys it.
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peteracs
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« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2013, 06:32:06 AM »

Hi

As Stuart says, the price is not real, redline do this regularly when they do not have stock, more realistic price is around 50 60.

Peter
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Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Saab 9-3 1.9Tid Cabrio
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