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Author Topic: Engine swap 1300 ==> 2000  (Read 5203 times)
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*thomas*
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« on: December 17, 2012, 04:50:03 PM »

Hi all,

I just introduced myself and already I have a question.

I have a pretty original 1300cc beta coupe, 1975 model (1st series), and I have a 2000cc IE 1983 (series 3, injection) wrecked, rotten beta with a good engine in the garage.

That car cannot be restored, otherwise, that would be the way to go.

Altough I like originality, I was wondering how hard it is to fit the 2000cc injection unit into the 1300cc carbed engine bay, and, doing a carb conversion? Questions that come to mind are:

- can I just undo the complete engine support and suspension and swap over the lot

- can I use the 1300cc carbs on the 2000cc engine ? rejetting it ofc.

- can I fit the 1300cc exhaust?

What should I look out for?

Thank you,

Thomas
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HFStuart
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« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2012, 10:41:29 PM »

- can I just undo the complete engine support and suspension and swap over the lot
Pretty much - yes. You'll need a bonnet from a 2.0 though as the engine is slightly taller

- can I use the 1300cc carbs on the 2000cc engine ? rejetting it ofc.
The 1300 carb choke (venturi) is too small really. It will work but it will restrict power. Ideally you'll need a 34DMTR with 25mm primary and 26 or 27mm secondary. There's a good chance someone on here will have one

- can I fit the 1300cc exhaust?
Bits of it! The downpipe will need to be for a 2.0 the manifold I'm not sure about.

You might also need a fuel pressure regulator.

Other than that(and anything I've left out) it shouldn't be a difficult swap.
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Dr Acula
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« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2012, 12:58:27 AM »

Hi all,

I just introduced myself and already I have a question.


Altough I like originality,


Thomas


That says iot all...................... LEAVE IT AS IT IS, A 1300 !!
Not many about, and first Lancis I ever owned !!. Wink
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*thomas*
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« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2012, 01:24:47 AM »

- can I just undo the complete engine support and suspension and swap over the lot
Pretty much - yes. You'll need a bonnet from a 2.0 though as the engine is slightly taller

- can I use the 1300cc carbs on the 2000cc engine ? rejetting it ofc.
The 1300 carb choke (venturi) is too small really. It will work but it will restrict power. Ideally you'll need a 34DMTR with 25mm primary and 26 or 27mm secondary. There's a good chance someone on here will have one

- can I fit the 1300cc exhaust?
Bits of it! The downpipe will need to be for a 2.0 the manifold I'm not sure about.

You might also need a fuel pressure regulator.

Other than that(and anything I've left out) it shouldn't be a difficult swap.

Thanks for your reply, this gives me a bit more of an idea of what to expect.

I'll look out for an other set of carbs, that way I can leave the 1300cc unit as it is, and, I could always change it back.

I have a 2000cc bonnet, but it will need a paint-job...

That says iot all...................... LEAVE IT AS IT IS, A 1300 !!
Not many about, and first Lancis I ever owned !!. Wink

Yes, I know an original car is getting rare these days, but I like a little project which gives me a nice power increase.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 01:27:16 AM by *thomas* » Logged
rossocorsa
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« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2012, 08:42:50 AM »

did you not post elsewhere that you have an 1800 unit as well?? would that not be a better option?
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peteracs
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« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2012, 08:45:57 AM »

Hi all,

I just introduced myself and already I have a question.


Altough I like originality,


Thomas

That says iot all...................... LEAVE IT AS IT IS, A 1300 !!
Not many about, and first Lancis I ever owned !!. Wink

Hi Thomas

Sorry to be a killjoy, but if it is a series 1, then I would echo the good doctor(!) and suggest you leave well alone as they are really super rare in any size engine and go looking for a later unit to play with.

Just my 2 penny worth.

Peter
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Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Saab 9-3 1.9Tid Cabrio
rossocorsa
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« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2012, 08:55:33 AM »

Hi all,

I just introduced myself and already I have a question.


Altough I like originality,


Thomas

That says iot all...................... LEAVE IT AS IT IS, A 1300 !!
Not many about, and first Lancis I ever owned !!. Wink

Hi Thomas

Sorry to be a killjoy, but if it is a series 1, then I would echo the good doctor(!) and suggest you leave well alone as they are really super rare in any size engine and go looking for a later unit to play with.

Just my 2 penny worth.

Peter


it will actually be a series 2 they didn't make 1300 coupés in the first series, it is still rare though and with a few quirky features such as bench rear seat unique to that model. Officially it was designated lancia 1300 coupé no 'Beta' in the model name.

I think it is rather unlikely that this car is from 1975 I need to check further but I don't think they built 1300 coupés before 1976??
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VXdeMayo
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« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2012, 10:28:55 AM »

Just to add my "tuppence worth", as it is an official 1300cc car (and is very rare these days), I would suggest leaving it alone. The historical context it brings to the Beta "family" is too important to mess about with! Ironically some might say that a decent 1300 model standing in a line of Vx's would be more interesting. It will show how the model evolved.
There, said it. But it's your car!
Best,
Chas and Anne. Cheesy
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"Baldric - I have a cunning plan" (Oh - ah, maybe not)!
MattNoVAT
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« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2012, 01:04:57 PM »

Thomas,

If you fit the 1983 IE engine you will need to add an electric fuel pump also as carb models used mechanical fuel pumps and later cars used electric fuel pumps.

Personally, I'd keep the 1300 and the 1800 as they are and restore them... but I like originality and am not into modifying.  But its a personal choice!

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1981 2000 Coupe S2/FL
1976 1600 Coupe S1

Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car. Oversteer is when you hit the wall with the back of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you send the wall across the field once youve hit it.
HFStuart
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« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2012, 01:38:25 PM »

But its a personal choice!

Indeed  - and it would be 100% returnable to original spec so no lasting harm would be done.
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*thomas*
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« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2012, 05:05:49 PM »

Hi all,

Nice to see al those replies Smiley, gives a lot to think about tho...

I found a car that is completely similar to mine (color, interior, dashboard etc etc), and, it is indeed stated as a 1978 car. I have deeplinked some images from this car (NOT mine, but 100% the same). So, this is a series 2?







The paperwork does not state the year of construction, and my ID plate on the car is not very clear, so that's why I have mistaken.

The only reason why I would like to fit the 2000cc unit with carbs (so no messing around with the electrics) is because of the power increase. It is not decided yet, not have I taken anything apart... And, as stated by Stuart, I can always reconvert it to a 1300cc, since I'm keeping the engine.

The reason why I am not using the 1800cc engine is because I have other plans with it, which you'll see when the weather gets better Wink.

Further ideas and suggestions are always welcome.

Cheers,

Thomas
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 05:14:00 PM by *thomas* » Logged
rossocorsa
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« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2012, 09:45:15 PM »

your car must be series two as there were no series one 1300 coupés, I think the earliest it could be is 1976. The car in the pictures looks fairly original but has the wrong bonnet  fitted (the raised bonnet was 2000 only on series two cars pre-facelift). 
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Neil-yaj396
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1979 1300 Coupe 1983 2000ie Coupe


« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2012, 08:16:29 PM »

The bonnet change over was pretty random. Most (including mine) had a raised version by 78. In fact the only flat bonnet 1300 I have ever seen is the picture on the owners manual.

As the owner of perhaps one of a small handful of pre FL 1300 Coupes I would echo all the above comment DON'T MESS WITH IT! With it's close ratio box it is a great drive. If you want a 2 litre car, buy one. Don't mess with this fine rarity!

Neil
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rossocorsa
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« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2012, 09:19:37 PM »

I'll check  the parts book when I  have time I'd always assumed that tall bonnets were fitted due to rust or accidents
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Neil-yaj396
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1979 1300 Coupe 1983 2000ie Coupe


« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2012, 08:09:45 AM »

I'll check  the parts book when I  have time I'd always assumed that tall bonnets were fitted due to rust or accidents

Yes, I had the bonnet debate with Andy Collins. I think it's has been rehearsed on here too. Didn't we conclude that the tall bonnets were phased in on the 1300 & 1600's sometime before the face lift. As above I've yet to see one on a 1300 and the gorgeous 1600 at the NEC (T reg?) had a tall bonnet too.
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archigraphe
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« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2012, 02:29:30 PM »

Hi Thomas,

As you have the original 1300 coupé, the back seat has to be single "banquette" with no header.

As this is what I m looking for Years...... because the rear looks in regularity is very difficult......


"Thomas dans ta 1300 tu dois avoir une banquette en guise de siége arriére, je recehrche cette banquette depuis quelque temps deja, sans en trouver... eventuellement si dans ton projet tu prévois son remplacement, la chose est moneyable.... Wink"
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rossocorsa
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« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2012, 07:13:45 PM »

it is not very clear in the parts book but I think flat bonnet until 1300 chassis number 7769 1600 chassis number 12831 (cpe) 10921 (hpe) not recorded (spider) but with a fairly long list of exceptions slightly after the numbers quoted for cars made in the changeover period. no date for this change I'm afraid. Just goes to show I should read my parts book every day.
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Neil-yaj396
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1979 1300 Coupe 1983 2000ie Coupe


« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2012, 08:02:22 AM »

it is not very clear in the parts book but I think flat bonnet until 1300 chassis number 7769 1600 chassis number 12831 (cpe) 10921 (hpe) not recorded (spider) but with a fairly long list of exceptions slightly after the numbers quoted for cars made in the changeover period. no date for this change I'm afraid. Just goes to show I should read my parts book every day.

Makes sense: my chassis number is 11530.
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peteracs
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« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2012, 09:28:20 AM »

Hi

On the Spyder, my serial is 01074 Series 2 pre F/L 1600 and has the flat bonnet, anyone with a later one?

Peter
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Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Saab 9-3 1.9Tid Cabrio
rossocorsa
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« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2012, 10:48:48 AM »

it is not very clear in the parts book but I think flat bonnet until 1300 chassis number 7769 1600 chassis number 12831 (cpe) 10921 (hpe) not recorded (spider) but with a fairly long list of exceptions slightly after the numbers quoted for cars made in the changeover period. no date for this change I'm afraid. Just goes to show I should read my parts book every day.

Makes sense: my chassis number is 11530.

first 1300 coupe imported to UK was apparently chassis number 3889 imported May 77 so yours is quite a way down the production run
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