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Author Topic: Engine swap - anyone done it?  (Read 9085 times)
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Hawk
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« on: August 21, 2012, 04:45:27 PM »

I am toying with the idea of a second Beta and turning it into a bit of a 'sleeper'.

Tuning the standard engine is expensive and I quite like the idea of modern running gear and a V6.  I am pretty handy with the spanners and have a mate with a full workshop / engine hoist etc who is also a coded welder but have no idea how involved an engine swap would be.

Ideally I'd prefer something Italian (Alfa V6) but would be happy with a Ford or Vauxhall (or whatever) lump.  Would probably buy a complete car so would have the ECU, gearbox etc. 

But I'm willing to stick pretty much anything in if it makes life a lot easier. 

Anyone got any tips / experience of doing anything similar?
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dougdee123
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« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2012, 05:18:27 PM »

Well, if you've taken your brave pills for today, how about the engine and drive train from a Thema 8.32?

Advantages - There are still a few about.

                    It is beta ish somewhat so integrating it with the bits you want to keep should be possible.

                    It would have a definite kudos - Ferrari badges and all that.

Disadvantages - Engine repairs would set new financial standards.

                       It may well be a money pit. (nothing new there then!)

Doug

                       

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HFStuart
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« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2012, 07:11:57 PM »

The only swap I've ever done is Fiat TC into rear engined Skoda - pretty simple as these things go.

To go in the front of the beta you'd want something fairly low and, ideally transverse.

I wondered about the Ford / Mazda V6. It's a wide angle V and fit beneath the bonnet of an MX-3 (1.8, 2.0 & 2.5 were all the same block) so it meets the criteria for low. And even in 1.8 form it produced 140bhp so no lack of go either. Plenty of them around from various Mazdas and the Ford Probe and of course they were all installed transversely

Challenging job - but not impossible.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 07:14:18 PM by HFStuart » Logged
Zagato
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« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2012, 09:33:15 PM »

Vauxhall fitted a 3 litre V6 Diesel in the Vectra some years ago
.... they would be fairly rare mind
But bags of power ... and torque
And also an interesting engine sound 
Reasonable economy too

Just an idea ... no idea if it would fit mind
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Hawk
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« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2012, 08:52:36 AM »

I'm doing an Alfa V6 into my HPE, slowly. The Alfa 156 is a cheap enough donor these days.

Oooh - tell me more. 

Presume you are dropping the complete engine and gearbox in?  And that it fits in the engine bay?
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peteracs
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« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2012, 08:03:46 PM »

Hi

If you are looking for help on the Alfa V6 as a donor, though obviously not the same kind of install to a Beta, the guys over at stratosec.com have lots of experience with putting them into the replicas and the things to watch out for etc. Very friendly bunch with many years knowledge as the Alfa has been the choice engine since the 164 was around.

Peter
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MattNoVAT
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« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2012, 08:25:41 PM »

To be honest transplanting a V6 into a Beta engine bay is completely different to fitting a V6 into a Hawk Stratos, I've done it twice!  The Hawk chassis is easy to work on and does not need anywhere near as much "conversion" to accept the V6 unit or moving of heaters, fuse box etc, the Beta engine bay...... Different story altogether!!

The Stratos and the Hawk, which is the closest replica  by way of chassis design, was designed to take a V6 246 Dino power plant (even though they did try a prototype with a Fulvia V4) and the Beta was designed with the inline 4 cylinder in mind.

Just my 2 pennies
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1981 2000 Coupe S2/FL
1976 1600 Coupe S1

Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car. Oversteer is when you hit the wall with the back of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you send the wall across the field once youve hit it.
HFStuart
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« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2012, 08:54:44 PM »

X1/9 ??
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fulviafiend
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« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2012, 09:11:37 PM »

This is how to fit an Alfa V6 into a Beta, not the easiest way but it does give easy access! Wink

Picture copyright Lawrence Clift Photography


* BETA_V6.jpg (291.08 KB, 853x1280 - viewed 3925 times.)
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1983 Lancia Beta Coupe 2000ie

http://www.rallylegendreplicas.com
peteracs
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« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2012, 05:08:58 PM »

To be honest transplanting a V6 into a Beta engine bay is completely different to fitting a V6 into a Hawk Stratos, I've done it twice!  The Hawk chassis is easy to work on and does not need anywhere near as much "conversion" to accept the V6 unit or moving of heaters, fuse box etc, the Beta engine bay...... Different story altogether!!

The Stratos and the Hawk, which is the closest replica  by way of chassis design, was designed to take a V6 246 Dino power plant (even though they did try a prototype with a Fulvia V4) and the Beta was designed with the inline 4 cylinder in mind.

Just my 2 pennies

Hi Matt


Yes, sory was not too clear on what I meant. The Stratos replicas such as Hawk do have various engine fitment options, so not an unknown as the Beta would be in general. I was really thinking along the lines of 'when you have fitted the engine in', the next phase I guess is hooking everything up, and that is where I saw the Stratos guys may be useful as there are often discussions on gear linkage etc, which is not necessarily that easy I guess (never tried anything like this, so can only imagine).

Impressed you have built 2 Hawks, do you still have any of them?

Peter
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Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
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MattNoVAT
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« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2012, 05:48:10 PM »

I've sold both my Hawks now the first went to Italy and had a Dino 246 engine installed instead of the Alfa 164 12v 3 ltr, the second one is still in the UK.

Being over 6 foot 4 inches tall I don't really fit in a Stratos, which was designed with smaller Italian types in mind ( Like Sandro Munari !)  It was an itch that has now been scratched and was a great car to have after the my years of owning Integrales because it was such an attention getter!

It was and still is a drop dead gorgeous car IMO:

Here you go...


* Hawk HF3000 Stradale.JPG (167.39 KB, 658x493 - viewed 2442 times.)

* Hawk V6 Engine.JPG (154.8 KB, 705x529 - viewed 5357 times.)

* Hawk Interior.JPG (143.93 KB, 799x599 - viewed 2471 times.)
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1981 2000 Coupe S2/FL
1976 1600 Coupe S1

Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car. Oversteer is when you hit the wall with the back of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you send the wall across the field once youve hit it.
mangocrazy
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« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2012, 11:36:58 AM »

That Hawk/Stratos of yours (or ex-yours) is absolutely gorgeous. I've lusted after a Stratos replica after having seen the original on the RAC rally many years ago, and yours is/was absolutely spot on. Dare I ask how much it cost to build and how much you sold it on for? If you don't want to disclose, I fully understand.
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
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peteracs
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« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2012, 03:16:22 PM »

That Hawk/Stratos of yours (or ex-yours) is absolutely gorgeous. I've lusted after a Stratos replica after having seen the original on the RAC rally many years ago, and yours is/was absolutely spot on. Dare I ask how much it cost to build and how much you sold it on for? If you don't want to disclose, I fully understand.

I also have a hankering to build one or at least own/rebuild a pre built for a while, being 5' 8" helps with the fitting into them, though I think the newer Listerbell can accomodate taller folk more easily.

Check out the Stratos Enthusiasts Forum here

www.stratosec.com

The general consensus is a new build with mainly new parts (apart from donor engine/gearbox etc) will be around 30k, used ones can be had for 20k-33k+ and some may have been sold recently for as low as 15k, but have no first hand knowledge on that lower value. There are one or two available now should you be feeling flush!

Peter
 
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Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Saab 9-3 1.9Tid Cabrio
MattNoVAT
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« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2012, 04:29:40 PM »

One thing I would say is that it is not an easy car to build, you need lots of tools, lots of skill, lots of time and lots of money.  Nothing for a Strat rep is cheap and lots of parts are hard to find.
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1981 2000 Coupe S2/FL
1976 1600 Coupe S1

Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car. Oversteer is when you hit the wall with the back of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you send the wall across the field once youve hit it.
archigraphe
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« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2012, 01:06:35 PM »

And why Not an integrale engine with conversion of the subframe for the passage of the exhaust?

This Engine seems to have same design , but tilt to front from 20 .

And why not an Integrale Beta ?
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MattNoVAT
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« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2012, 03:14:20 PM »

You would be better off using a Thema 16v Turbo Phase 3 with a LSD unless you make the Beta 4x4. (Painful)

Inlet / Exhausts are reverse design to Beta (exhaust is at the front)
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1981 2000 Coupe S2/FL
1976 1600 Coupe S1

Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car. Oversteer is when you hit the wall with the back of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you send the wall across the field once youve hit it.
archigraphe
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« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2012, 07:18:53 PM »

Are the thema gearbox bolt on to Beta block?
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oldspider
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« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2014, 05:31:34 PM »

I'm glad the OP asked this, because it would be something I would want to consider myself!
If I could get a decent Spyder body and completely transplant the engine and gear box from something contemporary (doesn't have to be fancy). I'm thinking a newer Focus!!

I know this is like painting a moustache on the Mona Lisa, and I don't know if the fit is impossible, but I'd definitely like to know if such a thing has been done.
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HFStuart
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« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2014, 07:37:35 PM »

There was a chap on here a few months ago fitting a Jaguar 4.0 6 cylinder into a Beta! That was a rear drive conversion though.

I suspect a modern transverse installation would be even more challenging as the bonnet line is very low by modern standards.
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slowe
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« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2014, 11:09:04 PM »

I think the Jag 4.0 6 cylinder project has bitten the dust. I think he was trying to sell some of his lancia parts early last year.
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