Lancia Beta Forum
June 16, 2019, 09:01:57 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: 2019 Calendar of events: http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=87.0
 
   Home   Help Contact Admin Search Calendar Gallery Articles Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
Author Topic: New Front Wishbones  (Read 6531 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
WestonE
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 777


« on: November 20, 2011, 08:58:58 AM »

Guys

As some of you know I am building a slightly unusual Beta Spyder/Spider with more than standard power levels (280 bhp 260 ft lbs). This means I have to sort out the weaker areas in the original design so i can enjoy the car and stay alive! So after looking at various options I am going to have new front wishbones made that link to the existing lower swivels and front roll bar. However they will have 2 degrees of negative camber built in and have far stronger bettter supported inner bushes (made arround a Polybush part). They will be made in tubular steel before being plated and poweder coated.

So is anyone else interested? I do not know the price yet but it will be cheaper if more are made and there will be a pattern for the future.

NB negative camber to reduce understeer and give sharper turn in, Better bushes and location to remove torque steer and mid corner geometry changes.

Eric   
Logged
rachaeljf
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 80


« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2011, 02:30:42 PM »

I'll have some of that!

Cheers R
Logged
rossocorsa
Guest
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2011, 05:51:07 PM »

very interesting idea but I'm afraid probably outside of my budget
Logged
HFStuart
Legendary Member
******
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 1627



« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2011, 06:57:17 PM »

Eric,

I could be interested in these. What are you planning to do for the A/R bar mount? I've wondered before whether it would be worth modifying it to use a short drop link with a fixed mount on the subframe.

Stuart
Logged
WestonE
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 777


« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2011, 09:12:19 AM »

Stuart

I was not intending to change the front roll bar assembly as my experience with lowering and uprating springs and dampers has seen decent results on roll with all bushes in good condition. Also I do not want to stiffen the front roll bar as this would add understeer. If anything I would want to adjust the rear but this has risks like snap oversteer so I am leaving it alone until I can drive the combined modifications with different spring/damper rates.

What is it you want to change about the front roll bar assembly and why?

Eric
PS do you have designs or components
Logged
HFStuart
Legendary Member
******
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 1627



« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2011, 09:53:03 PM »

I've always thought there was too much compliance in the A/R bar mounting both on the subframe and on the wishbones.

What I'd envisaged was a short drop link (like used on most modern cars) attached to slide over clamp on the bar and a chassis bracket on the wishbone. To get the requived amount of anticulation without big angle changes in the drop link I'd probably have it pass down through the wishbone and attach to a bracket underneath or have it go up and attach direct to a bracket on the shock body. The bar could then be attached to the subframe by a single saddle clamp either side rather than the double one.

Slide clamp - http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p780/ROLL-BAR-SLIDE-CLAMP-3/4/product_info.html?osCsid=86a7a5fcab227d44029e5edc7128b58b
Logged
75coupe
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 297

1975 Beta coupe 2L


« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2011, 08:55:22 PM »

Hi Eric

Only just picked up on this thread but would be interested in the wishbones depending on cost .

I agree with your comments on anti roll bars.

Best wishes for Christmas

Ian
Logged
rachaeljf
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 80


« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2012, 08:49:45 PM »

Hi Eric,

Did you get any further with these wishbones?

Cheers R
Logged
WestonE
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 777


« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2012, 08:57:56 AM »

Rachel

I have the bushes identified and a set purchased but have not yet been to GB sportscars to commission these.

Eric
Logged
archigraphe
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 129


« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2012, 03:21:32 PM »

Hi Eric,

I'm looking renforcing my whishbone, but with welding some piece of steel to them.

Like I show on this site :

http://www.betagr4motorsport.fr/#/pieces-auto-page-0/3785726

What do you think is the more effective for our cars?

Logged
WestonE
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 777


« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2012, 10:15:40 AM »

Archiegraphe a very interesting site and a way to solve the weak front wishbones available now. My solution will be better but it is not available or yet being built so yes buy this kit it makes sense but does nothing about providing negative camber and it adding weight to a weak design. The 20 degree wedge adaptors to make Fiat manifolds fit Betas and Montecarlos are interesting and the strut braces a great idea. But why are they selling drive shaft spacers? I would love to know the problem this is meant to solve? 

Eric
Logged
HFStuart
Legendary Member
******
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 1627



« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2012, 11:17:30 AM »

I noticed those too.


The site is called BetaGr4 - did they run a wider track?

Logged
archigraphe
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 129


« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2012, 06:10:48 PM »

Hi,

On the betagr4motorsport there is many information, you can download the Fia 3064 list, and show us the specs from the Beta  Gr3 and Gr4 , and the extension homologation.

For the whishbone, as you can see, M. Bonelli work on the camber by deport of the lower front ball. The piece of steel complet the strenghtened kit.
Doing this, he need the extension of the driveshaft. Without, the driveshaft is too short.

The increase of the negative camber can be obtain by an "ovalization" of the upper hole for the hub fixation, as we can saw on the VW Golf 1.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Camber-kit-Beetle-Cabrio-Golf-Jetta-Passat-/260751911547

But the result is limited at best 1.5 °.
Logged
WestonE
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 777


« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2012, 08:34:19 AM »

Archiegraph

The Golf kit would be un-safe on a beta with such weak bolts better to use the original large and strong bolts and slot the upper holes before using hi grip lock washers or welded washers (I have done this in the past successfully). A very interesting point on needing longer drive shafts/ spacers I need to consider this.

Eric 
Logged
mangocrazy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 583


« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2018, 10:31:23 PM »

Hi Eric,

I'm looking renforcing my whishbone, but with welding some piece of steel to them.

Like I show on this site :

http://www.betagr4motorsport.fr/#/pieces-auto-page-0/3785726

What do you think is the more effective for our cars?


Archie, did you ever get round to doing this? I'm thinking of doing the same, but am unsure of how much (or how little) metal to add in for the best balance between stiffness and weight.
Logged

1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
WestonE
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 777


« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2018, 09:00:57 AM »

Hi Graham

I have the new front wishbones for my car but they are untested and not yet fitted to the subframe which is being re-enforced first. They are large gauge tubular steel with Nissan Patrol Poly bushes and custom centres. They will not be bending at the first pot hole or pulling backwards under power for exciting torque steer.

I will get some photos sorted out at the weekend, but before you get excited this is an expensive option for Beta owners.

Cheers

Eric
Logged
mangocrazy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 583


« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2018, 10:18:18 PM »

Yes, I appreciate that Eric. But then your requirements are several orders of magnitude more severe than mine...  Smiley  I'm just interested in beefing stuff up where I can at reasonable cost. At some point I'm also intending to drop the subframe on my Spider, get it blasted and have some reinforcement welded in, then galvanise and paint it. Will be very interested to see what you do with your subframe as I may be able to copy that.

Would you say that welding in triangular reinforcing plates to the wishbone would improve matters or are there more serious issues to address? Triangulation and/or gussetting is the best way I know of beefing up weak right angle profiles.
Logged

1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
WestonE
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 777


« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2018, 08:58:43 AM »

Hi Graham

If you can get rectangular box section steel across between to 2 sides it should help with twisting. In general create triangle or box sections to add strength. Just be careful not to make anything that will foul through the full movement of the wishbone.

Eric   
Logged
WestonE
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 777


« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2018, 11:52:11 AM »

Some Photos



* New Beta Wishbones Bottom (Medium).jpg (343.61 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 167 times.)

* New Beta Wishbones top (Medium).jpg (335.85 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 184 times.)
Logged
squiglyzigly
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 120



« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2018, 12:22:42 AM »

Hi Eric,
I’m a bit late to this thread but maybe my playtime will be of use to someone.
I had similar issues with wishbone flex many moons ago running a slick shod Beta coupe in the Italian Intermarque challenge.
Here are a few things I used to use and have now found their way onto my road going VX.

Cross braced standard wishbones with particular strengthening along the sides either side of the lower ball joint mounting holes (circled) as I found this the main area of flex. Obvious I guess as it’s the ‘single’ most loaded area of the wishbone trying to transfer torque to the two bushes.
I also used solid nylon anti-roll bar mounts on both wishbone and subframe.



* E8F96D19-06DC-4E8C-9AA9-B36CB0454FDA.jpeg (613.48 KB, 1280x1280 - viewed 166 times.)
Logged

Beta coupé VX (completed April 2017)
Beta Saloon 2000 s2 1979 (in progress)
Aprilia RSVR 2002
Aprilia Tuono R (130 rear wheel BHP) mad as a box of frogs
Alfa 159 sportwagon
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!