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Author Topic: Indicators Fast Flashing issue  (Read 16138 times)
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piacevole1300
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« Reply #40 on: June 23, 2011, 05:59:06 PM »

Ok now my bodging senses are tingling, I had a quick scan over the drawing and there should be no relay where this is put in I took a photo of what mine looks like before it goes onto the main junction and its very different from the wiring diagram:


Could this indeed be my problem or am I looking at an older diagram and the Beta was updated? Very strange to say the least...
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piacevole1300
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« Reply #41 on: June 23, 2011, 07:55:12 PM »

Ok I took it out rewired it just to go straight from the main circuit to the flasher unit without the relay in amongst it like so:

And guess what?
It didn't work, I don't mean it 'didn't work,didn't work' but nothing changed indicators still going fast, handbrake normal and the same hazard speed.

So even though I feel a sense of proud the most easiest rewiring worked for me first time, that wasn't my problem and only raises more questions why the relay was there when it was only trying to set my car on fire.  Undecided

So there is nothing with the wiring under the foot well does this mean taking the Dash off?!  Shocked
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hutch6610
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« Reply #42 on: June 23, 2011, 08:41:49 PM »

This has come along way since the other day!
I was wondering why you had removed the fog lamp relay from under the bonnet .. until i looked a little closer and you actually have it attached to a little piece of wiring harness.
Can't say i remember seeing anything like that - a relay to power up the indicator switch, its pointless unless you (i know you didn't fit it) are intending to supplement some extra juice so to speak to make up for any power drop.

The manual/diagram you are using is not the older car diagram as found in the Haynes manual, incidentally i have used the older wiring diagram to sort out later Betas as the wiring is very similar.
Flasher units on older cars are the old three pin bimetallic strip type however.

My wiring diagram is pretty close to the the photo you provide but the plug numbers are different (example 73 is 46 in the Haynes) so you probably have the right one.

Aside from that i think you have probably found a cause for the strange behaviour of your indicators - believe me the "reed trick" does work and it made very little difference to your car.
I would put the wiring back the way Lancia had intended, put everything back so it matches your wiring diagram - minus the relay because it should not be there and the heat from it is probably robbing the flasher unit of the correct resistance to do its job.

UPDATE ..... you have already done it while i was typing this and checking with the manual ........ Well done!

One question for you (hope you don't sign out) IS THE REED SWITCH STILL BYPASSED?
I read earlier that you had either removed it or was it the bridge you have removed?
If you have removed the bridge - try it again just to make sure!

No you don't have to remove the dash as the problem is not under there.
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piacevole1300
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« Reply #43 on: June 23, 2011, 08:57:33 PM »

This has come along way since the other day!
I was wondering why you had removed the fog lamp relay from under the bonnet .. until i looked a little closer and you actually have it attached to a little piece of wiring harness.
Can't say i remember seeing anything like that - a relay to power up the indicator switch, its pointless unless you (i know you didn't fit it) are intending to supplement some extra juice so to speak to make up for any power drop.

The manual/diagram you are using is not the older car diagram as found in the Haynes manual, incidentally i have used the older wiring diagram to sort out later Betas as the wiring is very similar.
Flasher units on older cars are the old three pin bimetallic strip type however.

My wiring diagram is pretty close to the the photo you provide but the plug numbers are different (example 73 is 46 in the Haynes) so you probably have the right one.

Aside from that i think you have probably found a cause for the strange behaviour of your indicators - believe me the "reed trick" does work and it made very little difference to your car.
I would put the wiring back the way Lancia had intended, put everything back so it matches your wiring diagram - minus the relay because it should not be there and the heat from it is probably robbing the flasher unit of the correct resistance to do its job.

UPDATE ..... you have already done it while i was typing this and checking with the manual ........ Well done!

One question for you (hope you don't sign out) IS THE REED SWITCH STILL BYPASSED?
I read earlier that you had either removed it or was it the bridge you have removed?
If you have removed the bridge - try it again just to make sure!

No you don't have to remove the dash as the problem is not under there.

Hi hutch sorry I was still melding outside when I got to the computer :/ It was quite odd got to say the least but I have found something that may hold the key to the mystery!

When I turn the headlights on now EVERYTHING stops indicators don't work, hazards don't work and the handbrake warning light freezes until you turn off the lights, so this sounds very much like a short somewhere. Time to look at this diagram to see where they come into contact...

Yeah the switch is not bypassed anymore because it didn't seem to do anything so that didn't seem like my fault if it comes to the worst I will try it again Cheesy

Ok now I can switch the lights on with indicators working... This is making my head hurt.  Undecided
« Last Edit: June 23, 2011, 09:14:16 PM by piacevole1300 » Logged
rachaeljf
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« Reply #44 on: June 23, 2011, 09:55:43 PM »

I disagree with Hutch - start removing bits from the car until it looks like this:

Then get back to us.

Your latest symptom is definitely a poor connection on the supply side. What happens is the current drawn by the headlamps pulls the voltage down so much that the flasher doesn't have enough current to start flashing. The bad connection could be anywhere right up to the battery. In X1/9 circles, there is a popular mod, known as the "brown wire mod", which supplements the inadequate factory supply wire with a second wire. X1/9s and I think many other Fiats are plagued by lack of robustness in the wiring. Some years ago I had a brown underwear moment in my exxy when I lost all my lights while travelling along the unlit A421 at a rate of knots. This was because Fiat saved a few Lire by not providing a relay for the dipped beam. The light switch contacts get dirty with age, a resistance builds up, heat builds up, switch melts....

Unfortunately you will get these problems as the car ages. When you get a fault like yours, the methodical way is to test for excessive voltage drops in the offending circuit, as I described before.

Is there any way you can scan and post up your wiring diagram?
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piacevole1300
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« Reply #45 on: June 23, 2011, 11:21:26 PM »

Your latest symptom is definitely a poor connection on the supply side. What happens is the current drawn by the headlamps pulls the voltage down so much that the flasher doesn't have enough current to start flashing. The bad connection could be anywhere right up to the battery. In X1/9 circles, there is a popular mod, known as the "brown wire mod", which supplements the inadequate factory supply wire with a second wire. X1/9s and I think many other Fiats are plagued by lack of robustness in the wiring. Some years ago I had a brown underwear moment in my exxy when I lost all my lights while travelling along the unlit A421 at a rate of knots. This was because Fiat saved a few Lire by not providing a relay for the dipped beam. The light switch contacts get dirty with age, a resistance builds up, heat builds up, switch melts....

Unfortunately you will get these problems as the car ages. When you get a fault like yours, the methodical way is to test for excessive voltage drops in the offending circuit, as I described before.

Is there any way you can scan and post up your wiring diagram?
Right well shall I start from the battery work my way along the diagram till I end up to the fault? The only problem is some junctions are going to be hidden so would I have to rip stuff out?  Undecided Is there any tutorials to doing this because all I can find is about American cars.

I did find before that it was quite erratic going from 11.12 volts to 12.13 volts each time it clicked but that must be the on/off of the indicators because they are not constantly on.

I am not at home right now but tomorrow when I get home i'll put it the Diagram for the Spider LHD&RHD also the Coupe LHD&RHD onto the forum Smiley
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rachaeljf
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« Reply #46 on: June 23, 2011, 11:41:54 PM »

You can test the bits you can get to as a first pass. If the fault turns out to be somewhere inaccessible then you will have to delve into it I'm afraid. You should not get more than 0.1 or 0.2 V drop across any connector or run of cable. If you do, you have a dirty connection or a corroded wire.
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piacevole1300
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« Reply #47 on: June 24, 2011, 12:55:04 PM »

You can test the bits you can get to as a first pass. If the fault turns out to be somewhere inaccessible then you will have to delve into it I'm afraid. You should not get more than 0.1 or 0.2 V drop across any connector or run of cable. If you do, you have a dirty connection or a corroded wire.
Something is telling me its the Shunt Block (Six ways) which is number 59 on the wiring diagram I wonder where it is to find it, I'll see if Haynes book will tell me (probably not)

Do you think I am barking up the wrong tree? Because that looks like the only place the voltimeter meets the indicators.
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piacevole1300
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« Reply #48 on: June 24, 2011, 03:52:28 PM »

Ok upon my search with a gut feeling I found the shunt block but I noticed something very intruging which was not part of the Wiring Diagram (certainly hope not or those pesky Italians have ways with electronics) I found on the back of the block a little holder with a light in it and on the back of the holder a black lead that without ripping the dash to pieces goes to an unknown place, the bulb does not work and is a little 12v 3w clip one. So now is this my problem? If it is how do I resolve this issue? Thanks!

Maybe, just maybe we are finding a conclusion to this whole pesky indicator problem!

Notice the holder with the wire out the back snaking up into the dash:


The actual bulb which to me deffently seems like it shouldn't be there!:
« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 04:07:06 PM by piacevole1300 » Logged
rachaeljf
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« Reply #49 on: June 24, 2011, 08:59:29 PM »

That looks like a glove box light. I believe the yellow wire means it is connected to the side lights. Very mysterious!
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piacevole1300
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« Reply #50 on: June 24, 2011, 09:03:39 PM »

That looks like a glove box light. I believe the yellow wire means it is connected to the side lights. Very mysterious!
Thats what I thought, I was like 'Oh hello glovebox light why are you here?' opened the glovebox with the lights on and hey presto the glovebox light worked! Then confusion set in. So its not the glovebox light.  Huh?
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piacevole1300
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« Reply #51 on: June 24, 2011, 09:54:15 PM »

That looks like a glove box light. I believe the yellow wire means it is connected to the side lights. Very mysterious!
I think I know the problem  Undecided The left hand side tail light bulb is blown. Because they are on the same board as the indicators it seems to be sending them loopy so I'll replace that. Be amazing if it is that.

But you were right turned the sidelights on and the bulb lit up! But this just opens up a whole new can of worms. And this blew my mind.

It is not needed.

I took it out and EVERYTHING works: side lights, indicators, dipped beam, full beam. So why, like the relay for the flasher unit, was it there? At the moment I am just going to say that someone was practicing there hand at electronics.. on a car?
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rachaeljf
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« Reply #52 on: June 25, 2011, 12:09:54 AM »

This is all part of the fun of working on Italian cars!

Do all the switches, clock and cig lighter light up with the side lights?

There should be no interaction between the indicators and side lights, unless there is a bad earth at the lamp holder.
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piacevole1300
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« Reply #53 on: June 25, 2011, 12:16:43 AM »

This is all part of the fun of working on Italian cars!

Do all the switches, clock and cig lighter light up with the side lights?

There should be no interaction between the indicators and side lights, unless there is a bad earth at the lamp holder.
Heater switches light up, radio lights up, instrument panel lights up and can dim to required also the clock although the cig lighter doesn't work with or without the hidden bulb. Anything else that should work?

Thats what I thought and even with or without the bulb the indicators still goes at the rate of knots.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2011, 12:30:20 AM by piacevole1300 » Logged
rachaeljf
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« Reply #54 on: June 25, 2011, 12:32:28 AM »

Wow, are you ever off line??! Grin

Well, no idea what the extra light is for, unless it's a footwell light like you get in cars these days. Is your engine bay light present and working?
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piacevole1300
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« Reply #55 on: June 25, 2011, 12:44:20 AM »

Wow, are you ever off line??! Grin

Well, no idea what the extra light is for, unless it's a footwell light like you get in cars these days. Is your engine bay light present and working?

I have been online for 1 days, 8 hours and 55 minutes  Wink HAHA! Its present but not working same with the boot light. Just certain lights round the car not working I have also noticed the brake light bulbs are blown too! The only problem with that theory is it was in a holder hidden away :/ Not going to keep it as one because its very bright and quite annoying if I was driving Tongue
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lanciamad
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Marcus Robinson


« Reply #56 on: June 25, 2011, 11:09:35 AM »

Ok upon my search with a gut feeling I found the shunt block but I noticed something very intruging which was not part of the Wiring Diagram (certainly hope not or those pesky Italians have ways with electronics) I found on the back of the block a little holder with a light in it and on the back of the holder a black lead that without ripping the dash to pieces goes to an unknown place, the bulb does not work and is a little 12v 3w clip one. So now is this my problem? If it is how do I resolve this issue? Thanks!

Maybe, just maybe we are finding a conclusion to this whole pesky indicator problem!

Notice the holder with the wire out the back snaking up into the dash:


The actual bulb which to me deffently seems like it shouldn't be there!:

Haven't been on here for a while, lots to catch up on!
I think your find that bulb is to illuminate the area around the fan switch and levers. I'll get a pic of it on mine or my dads HPE tonight if I remember just to show. The wiring should be connected to the sidelights as this illuminates as soon as the sidelights are turned on.
Marcus.
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1982 - Lancia Beta HPE 2000ie - Track - http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=472.0
1988 - Lancia Delta HF Turbo - Sorn - http://www.lanciasport.com/forum/index.php?topic=2585.0
1989 - Lancia Delta 1300 LX - Sorn
1988 - BMW E30 325i - Track
2005 - Subaru Forester XT STI - Road
hutch6610
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« Reply #57 on: June 25, 2011, 09:50:51 PM »

Just to confirm Marcus is right about the bulb in your photo.
The Bulb is supposed to be there - its meant to actually have a bulb with a lens on the tip to focus the light down not wires but fibre optic cables, two i think.
Purpose is to light up your rocker switches for demister and hazard lights (rear wash as well if you have an HPE)
The heater panel has two small bulbs to light up the red/green part from the rear.   

Have you reached the rachaeljf "Club Hammer" stage yet? Angry Angry Angry cunningly placed close at hand near the steering wheel.
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Neil-yaj396
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« Reply #58 on: June 26, 2011, 08:33:37 AM »

I was thinking that the rogue bulb must be dash related. The fibre optics only came in with the facelift I think. I take it that this car has the brown dash like my 1300?
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lanciamad
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Marcus Robinson


« Reply #59 on: June 26, 2011, 10:04:27 PM »

Got there in the end, sorry about the poor pics but an example of the bulb in action...



Not quite dark enough yet to see it in full flow but you get the idea, hopefully. Smiley
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1982 - Lancia Beta HPE 2000ie - Track - http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=472.0
1988 - Lancia Delta HF Turbo - Sorn - http://www.lanciasport.com/forum/index.php?topic=2585.0
1989 - Lancia Delta 1300 LX - Sorn
1988 - BMW E30 325i - Track
2005 - Subaru Forester XT STI - Road
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